Author Topic: .44 bullets from .40 S&W cases (Read 18445 times)

sgtt · « **Reply #30 on:** April 17, 2009, 12:21:36 PM »

I am trying these. I couldn't get a consistent weight pouring the case full. I sized a 210 grn .41 (RCBS mold) to .401 and turned it nose first into the case. Put some crimp on with a .40 cal crimp die. Bullet total weight was 280 grns. Two inch groups at 25 yds. The problem I am encountering is the bullet backing out as I am shooting these in a revolver. Anyone else trying these have a solution?

45-70.gov · « **Reply #31 on:** April 17, 2009, 03:13:28 PM »

torch

sgtt · « **Reply #32 on:** April 17, 2009, 11:08:30 PM »

How will a torch solve the projectiles from backing out of the 44 case? I was thinking more in the lines of a different type of crimp.

moxgrove · « **Reply #33 on:** April 18, 2009, 01:11:21 AM »

scribe crosshatching inside the case and then hit it with the torch. It will give the lead something to grip onto.

Curtis · « **Reply #34 on:** April 18, 2009, 03:26:07 AM »

Quote from: sgtt on April 17, 2009, 12:21:36 PM

I am trying these. I couldn't get a consistent weight pouring the case full. I sized a 210 grn .41 (RCBS mold) to .401 and turned it nose first into the case. Put some crimp on with a .40 cal crimp die. Bullet total weight was 280 grns. Two inch groups at 25 yds. The problem I am encountering is the bullet backing out as I am shooting these in a revolver. Anyone else trying these have a solution?

I have no experience using one but you may need to use a channelure tool on the 40 case/jacket. That will give your case mouth crimp on the 44 case something to grab.

Curtis

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #35 on:** April 18, 2009, 02:08:23 PM »

Im still trying to find something in the die box to crimp the bullet mouth. As to jumping crimp it may take some experimenting as sometimes overcrimping can cause springback and be worse the to light of a crimp. It is more likely to happen if your bullets are on the big side. Try running them through a lee 430 or 429 sizing die. Then put just a medium heavy crimp on them.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #36 on:** April 18, 2009, 02:59:27 PM »

Try a Lee Factory crimp die.

Hank08 · « **Reply #37 on:** April 19, 2009, 02:02:07 AM »

I just use a heavy crimp with a RCBS seater but for a real heavy crimp use a Dillon seater.
H08

S.B. · « **Reply #38 on:** April 19, 2009, 05:41:21 PM »

Interesting, I may just have to try this some day? Got to be cheap, I pick up .40 fired brass every time I'm at my local range.
Steve

Tom W. · « **Reply #39 on:** May 03, 2009, 03:44:16 PM »

Well, I have a Lee .429 sizer die that I hope will work. I haven't tried anything just yet...

jhalcott · « **Reply #40 on:** May 03, 2009, 06:18:46 PM »

Nickel flakes WILL scratch dies,so I would NOT use those cases for this.

INresponse · « **Reply #41 on:** May 04, 2009, 04:55:14 PM »

Quote from: Autorim on March 29, 2009, 05:21:45 PM

Why would I want to try that? Looks like a good way to screw up a good barrel.

Actually the jacket brass is what Remington uses in their Golden Saber ammunition. The following is a paragraph from a Guns & Ammo article:
"Remington's Golden Saber bullet features a copper alloy jacket and a deep hollow point. The jacket features half a dozen deep serrations around the circumference of the hollow point to aid expansion. The Golden Saber bullet also features a novel shape, as well. Swaged to a "Driving Band profile," the bullet features a larger driving band that engages the lands and grooves and seals the bore while the front two-thirds of the bullet is reduced in diameter and only lightly engages the top of the lands. The shape is aimed at reducing friction and bullet deformation in the bore while also tending to lock the solid lead core in the jacket, as well."

This actually got me to thinking ( I know, scary stuff). If .40 cases can be used for .44 bullets, 9mm cases might be used for .40 bullets, and 10mm cases might be used for .44 lever guns.

These would be a pretty solid wadcutter if filled with lead and loaded headstamp out.

Cheesehead · « **Reply #42 on:** May 04, 2009, 05:35:54 PM »

"These would be a pretty solid wadcutter if filled with lead and loaded headstamp out."

Interesting thought.

Cheese

jimenezgraves19 · « **Reply #43 on:** May 04, 2009, 09:34:01 PM »

40 s&w to 44 boolits?

Hi there! My idea is to swage 40 s&w cases without cores then pour pure lead into them with a dipper and then weigh them.Then adjust weight by scrapping off excess.I know its a lot of stuffing around.
Hey it`s learning and fun.

Graves!

Forget to say it is for a.444 marlin.

Hank08 · « **Reply #44 on:** May 06, 2009, 05:49:51 AM »

Talking to a shooter last weekend who makes a lot of of the .40/.44 bullets and he mentioned that he uses a cast bullet for a core. He has a wood stove and just places the core in the case
sets the case base down on his stove and soon the cast bullet melts into the case, when cool
he crimps the case mouth and they're done.
H08

45-70.gov · « **Reply #45 on:** May 09, 2009, 02:01:23 PM »

Quote from: Hank08 on May 06, 2009, 05:49:51 AM

Talking to a shooter last weekend who makes a lot of of the .40/.44 bullets and he mentioned that he uses a cast bullet for a core. He has a wood stove and just places the core in the case
sets the case base down on his stove and soon the cast bullet melts into the case, when cool
he crimps the case mouth and they're done.
H08

torch

odoh · « **Reply #46 on:** May 10, 2009, 12:47:44 PM »

Quote from: jhalcott on May 03, 2009, 06:18:46 PM

Nickel flakes WILL scratch dies,so I would NOT use those cases for this.

Figures ~ what w/400rds unfired, unprimed nickled 40S&W brass w/o a pistol to shoot'em in . . . . .

S.B. · « **Reply #47 on:** May 10, 2009, 01:40:26 PM »

Quote from: odoh on May 10, 2009, 12:47:44 PM

Quote from: jhalcott on May 03, 2009, 06:18:46 PM
Nickel flakes WILL scratch dies,so I would NOT use those cases for this.

Figures ~ what w/400rds unfired, unprimed nickled 40S&W brass w/o a pistol to shoot'em in . . . . .

If you use carbide dies, I don't think I'd worry too much about this. They don't scratch the sizing die when resizing. Can't remember who posted this but, they must be using steel dies? But, the nickel could scratch your bore when these are shot.
Steve

odoh · « **Reply #48 on:** May 10, 2009, 04:20:59 PM »

Quote from: S.B. on May 10, 2009, 01:40:26 PM

Quote from: odoh on May 10, 2009, 12:47:44 PM
Quote from: jhalcott on May 03, 2009, 06:18:46 PM
Nickel flakes WILL scratch dies,so I would NOT use those cases for this.

Figures ~ what w/400rds unfired, unprimed nickled 40S&W brass w/o a pistol to shoot'em in . . . . .

If you use carbide dies, I don't think I'd worry too much about this. They don't scratch the sizing die when resizing. Can't remember who posted this but, they must be using steel dies? But, the nickel could scratch your bore when these are shot.
Steve

Yes ~ the bore is a concern.

odoh · « **Reply #49 on:** May 10, 2009, 06:45:53 PM »

Quote from: sgtt on April 17, 2009, 12:21:36 PM

I am trying these. I couldn't get a consistent weight pouring the case full. I sized a 210 grn .41 (RCBS mould) to .401 and turned it nose first into the case. Put some crimp on with a .40 cal crimp die. Bullet total weight was 280 grns. Two inch groups at 25 yds. The problem I am encountering is the bullet backing out as I am shooting these in a revolver. Anyone else trying these have a solution?

If the issue is w/the lead bullet/core slipping out of the 40S&W case, then perhaps cleaning the inside surface of the case to enable adhesion/bonding of the lead to case. Probably, a paste rosin soldering flux would need to be applied before pouring the lead. And if going this far, perhaps crosshatch of the inner surface as someone suggested should be done.

If the issue is w/the 40S&W hybrid slipping out of the 44 case, then perhaps a bullet/primer sealant like available from midway (fingernail polish) would be just enuff to mitigate the issue. I've used it on primers and bullets and it turns to dust when firing. I know that Speeer uses asphalt bullet to case sealant on their 454 gold dots loads.

Tom W. · « **Reply #50 on:** May 17, 2009, 05:10:46 PM »

I cast some bullets today, so I threw in a case and let it get good and hot, poured it full of lead and ran it through the Lee sizer. I'm not even sure if it touched it, and if it did, it didn't seem to do anything. Now I'll weigh the "bullet" and find a suitable charge. I have a friend that has a LOT of once fired .40 S&W brass.....

Cheesehead · « **Reply #51 on:** May 17, 2009, 05:17:23 PM »

Quote from: Hank08 on May 06, 2009, 05:49:51 AM

Talking to a shooter last weekend who makes a lot of of the .40/.44 bullets and he mentioned that he uses a cast bullet for a core. He has a wood stove and just places the core in the case
sets the case base down on his stove and soon the cast bullet melts into the case, when cool
he crimps the case mouth and they're done.
H08

This sounds like the best solution.

Cheese

Tom W. · « **Reply #52 on:** May 17, 2009, 06:55:01 PM »

I got it loaded... with 11 grains of Blue Dot. I used the same crimp on the brass as normal, and it's doing pretty good. It's not the prettiest thing that I've ever done, but it ain't too shabby.It fits the SRH just fine..

bluecow · « **Reply #53 on:** May 18, 2009, 04:16:47 AM »

has anyone tried these on game yet?

S.B. · « **Reply #54 on:** May 18, 2009, 06:06:22 AM »

Quote from: Hank08 on March 30, 2009, 06:36:08 AM

Here's a pic of one loaded. Weight will depend on what you put in the case. The bullet pictured weights 296 grs. with pure lead. Just made some yesterday, will shoot them today if the snow, that fell yesterday, melts by this afternoon. Shooting these bullets is no harder on your barrel than most other jacketed bullet . Norma makes , or use to, make a .44-240 gr. with a steel jac. I've shot hundreds of those with no observable wear, anyway I'm just passing on some info, not looking to argue with anyone. Use the info or not, your decision. Back when the 1st .35 magnum rifles came out there were no heavy 35 bullets. Shooters made them from .30 Carbine brass. .470 rifle bullets have been made from .45acp brass. This isn't something new .
H08

What did you use for a crimpping die?
Steve

iiranger · « **Reply #55 on:** May 18, 2009, 09:19:37 AM »

Both the corbins, Dave/corbins.com and Richard, rceco.com, address this in their writings. No big deal. You have to anneal the cases for better results. Most of the heavy press handgun bullet dies can do the final forming. Swage to best diameter. Ch4d.com? Corbin? Corbin? Blackmon? Hollywood? Well annealed the brass is little harder than the copper jackets. Slight greater tendency to be brittle and shatter.

As suggested, the .22 rimfire case has been used for decades. Basis of the firms Hornady and Speer (once, briefly, partners I am told). Sisk? Donaldson wrote of making his own bullets out of "short" cases.

.223 is .375 approx. Ideas. .45 ACP can be formed into rifle bullets or very heavy handgun bullets. Now with the .475's and .500's even more useful. '06 and .308 are .473... but very heavy brass in the base.

Mr. Corbin(s), both, have writings posted on web site for free review, download, study... read up and pursue if it suits you. Happy trails.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #56 on:** May 18, 2009, 03:34:02 PM »

If that bullet performs like the sledge hammer it looks like expansion would be unnecesary.

INresponse · « **Reply #57 on:** May 22, 2009, 06:34:13 PM »

Quote from: Hank08 on March 30, 2009, 06:36:08 AM

Here's a pic of one loaded. Weight will depend on what you put in the case. The bullet pictured weights 296 grs. with pure lead.

If that is all the taper you plan on using, and especially if it is not hollowpointed, I would load them headstamp out and go for the full metal jacket wadcutter effect. Now that would hit like a brick and penetrate with little difficulty.

(EDIT: not trying to sound negative, just offering an idea)

Tom W. · « **Reply #58 on:** May 22, 2009, 11:01:01 PM »

But we can't hunt with a fmj.....and can with exposed lead....

sgtt · « **Reply #59 on:** May 24, 2009, 03:07:46 AM »

Here is where my "experiments" with this have lead. I sized some 210 RCBS cast bullets to .401. Push them nose first into an unsized 40 S&W case HARD.(I do bell the mouth) I then roll the mouth of this "bullet" using a 357 Sig seating/crimp die. I found that a Redding Profile Crimp die provides enough tension to hold the bullet to accomadate shooting them in a revolver. Once I discovered that the powder I am using doesn't favor any air space all my groups are under 2" @ 25 yds. I did not have much luck trying to pour lead into the case. I have not yet tried melting the bullet once is is in the case. I may. I have not tried shooting this primer end first. I was curious though if drilling out the primer and puting a spot of lead in the empty space would fulfill the exposed lead requirement for hunting.