Author Topic: Is there an easier way to remove lead from a rifle bore? (Read 4741 times)

bulletstuffer · « **on:** March 30, 2009, 04:16:10 AM »

Hi guys,

I'm newer to shooting cast bullets. What solvents have you found best to remove lead from the bore? How many passes though the bore with a brush, wet patches, dry patches till you get a clean dry patch to come through? Do you dip your brushes in the solvents or just push them though after a wet patch? Do any of you use polishing compounds? Do you clean between shots at the range? Any advise would be appreciated. Thanks for the help.

Bulletstuffer

kitchawan kid · « **Reply #1 on:** March 30, 2009, 04:23:42 AM »

I shoot alot of cast bullets in my 1911 .45 and have found those copper scrubs you buy for pots and pans works great,just rap it around a bore brush.There is a company,lewis I think makes a tool for lead removal,it's like a small copper screen on a rod end.

ShadowMover · « **Reply #2 on:** March 30, 2009, 04:49:33 AM »

The one I bought has a bronze screen that is over a rubber or neoprene plug that you compress with a nut. You get the plug just big enough where you can pull it through the bore, with a little solvent on it. It brings out chunks of lead. Since the rubber thing is a certain size you have to buy the one for the caliber you need. I don't know if they make one for rifles. Mine have all been for pistol.

There is a home-brew solution of vinegar and peroxide that will eat up lead in gun bores. Search around for the best instructions on this. Leaving it in a bore too long may be detrimental to the bore. There is also an electric method which involves filling the barrel with a liquid and hooking it up to a battery, again search for "electrolytic bore cleaner" or "electronic bore cleaner".

There was an old method of filling the bore with mercury, which dissolved the lead. This method is very unsafe due to the danger of mercury poisoning, and I only mention it to caution you against it.

Then there is the elbow grease method. I only clean mine after shooting at the range. There is no easy one answer covers everything rule on this.

Davemuzz · « **Reply #3 on:** March 30, 2009, 05:24:18 AM »

Yup! There sure is. I use this method since someone from a post told me about it and it works like a charm. First, go to your local grocery store and buy some 100% copper mesh pot scrubbers. Like these: http://www.usahardware.com/inet/shop/item/61630/icn/20-197962/quickie/503.htm Now, in order to make sure they are 100% copper (although the usually say that on the package....but you know how "marketing people are") you may want to run a magnet across 'em. If they are 100% copper, the magnet will not stick to them.

Then take a pair of scissors and cut a strip of the copper scrubber and wrap this strip around your brass bore brush. Dip this into (or pour your bore solvent) on the brush\scrubber combo (I prefer Butches bore solvent) and run that down the bore.

Now...I would hold the muzzle end of the bore over either a garbage can, or some old newspaper or something your going to throw away because on the very first pass.....your going to get a MOUNTAIN of lead out of that bore. Yeah!!! It works that good!!! Then do it a few more times and in about 6 strokes the bore will shine like a new one.

If it's really, really bad, you may have to do some clean up around the edges....but that's about it. Then just run your regular patches 'n oiled patches and your done.

Try it. You will be amazed.

Dave

quickdtoo · « **Reply #4 on:** March 30, 2009, 06:08:45 AM »

The easiest way is to use WipeOut, it won't remove the lead, but a couple day's soak will destroy the alloys in the lead and the remaining fouling can be pushed out with a tight patch, it's amazingly easy, just takes some time, I've used it on a severely fouled muzzleloader barrel after shooting cast bullets with hot T7 loads, it works.

The hard part is finding the WipeOut if you don't have any. $:-\$

Tim

http://www.sharpshootr.com/wipeout.htm

SPECIAL NOTE FOR ALL SHOOTERS SHOOTING LEAD BULLETS.

We specifically state that Wipe-out does not dissolve lead. Most chemicals that dissolve lead produce a galvanic reaction. This reaction in effect acts like a battery. In most cases it will etch steel ( both stainless and carbon steel). It is for this reason that we don't use chemicals that specifically work on lead.

We use chemicals that will dissolve the other metals ( tin , antimony, zinc, etc.) that are incorporated in most bullet alloys. So we work to destroy the integrity of the bullet alloy, and it begins to come apart in small black flakes. This process takes about 24 to 36 hours.

So while Wipe-Out™ does not dissolve lead , it will degrade the alloy so that it can be pushed out with a tight patch.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #5 on:** March 31, 2009, 02:02:54 AM »

shot a half a dozen jacketed bullets through it when your done. It will remove most leading. IVe done this for 30 years without any ill effects.

bulletstuffer · « **Reply #6 on:** April 02, 2009, 02:17:46 PM »

Thanks guys! I guess having fun comes with a price

Magnet trick was a great idea. Magnet picked up the stuff a friend of mine gave me. I was wondering if this stuff may be hard on the bore. This is a great site!

Bulletstuffer

Davemuzz · « **Reply #7 on:** April 02, 2009, 04:11:34 PM »

Quote from: bulletstuffer on April 02, 2009, 02:17:46 PM

Thanks guys! I guess having fun comes with a price Magnet trick was a great idea. Magnet picked up the stuff a friend of mine gave me. I was wondering if this stuff may be hard on the bore. This is a great site!

Bulletstuffer

Bulletstuffer,

If you are using the copper scrubber method that I described, make sure that the copper scrubber is 100% copper. To do this, when you put a magnet to the copper scrubber THE SCRUBBER SHOULD NOT STICK TO THE MAGNET. If it does stick to the magnet, then it's not 100% copper....and then it will cause harm to the bore. However, if the scrubber is 100% copper, it will clean the bore as I stated above, and not harm it.

Dave

mdi · « **Reply #8 on:** April 03, 2009, 09:42:59 AM »

Be VERY careful if you use the peroxide/vinegar solution. It works but use sparingly. Do not soak the bore for more tha a few minutes. I have a Dan Wesson 44 Mag. with a bore damaged by Peroxide/vinegar cleaning. I plugged the bbl and soaked it with the solution for a few minutes, still got dirty patches so I filled the bbl. again but this time got busy with other things and let it soak for about an hour and half, maybe two hours. When I remembered the bbl was still soaking I emptied it and checked the condition of the bore (found rough spots) and filled it with Kroil. Soaked in Kroil for a couple days and then ran some patches through the bore. Bore feels rough. Looked through the bbl and see rough spots on top of the lands. I was so disappointed in myself I finished cleaning and put her away. I'll go back soon and see it there's anything I can do to salvage the gun. She was a real good shooter too.

skarke · « **Reply #9 on:** April 11, 2009, 06:20:43 PM »

Chore Boy on a Double Tough Brownells bore brush. It's cheap and works like a champ.

gypsyman · « **Reply #10 on:** April 12, 2009, 11:24:13 AM »

Several company's make a product called a lead away cloth.(Kleen Bore-ADCO-Outers). I wrap a small piece around a worn out bore brush, and work it back and forth down the barrel. Be careful, as if you rub it, or let it set on the outside of a blue gun, it can remove blueing. Hoppe's also makes what is called a Tornado brush. The wire is wrapped around in loops, so that there isn't any cut off edge's. They work much better than a standard bore brush in getting the leading out of a barrel. gypsyman

Hank08 · « **Reply #11 on:** April 14, 2009, 06:05:40 PM »

I'll second Sharke's post. Brownell's DOUBLE TOUGH brushes is the easiest and quickest way.
H08

blhof · « **Reply #12 on:** April 15, 2009, 10:47:03 AM »

You might also invest in Veral's firelapping kit. I've used it on my pistol first and it totally stopped the leading and have since used it on all my guns, including B/P. It also significantly improved accuracy in my old 22Lr and my son's 45. I also used the choir boy trick before lapping my guns, it was relative quick and easy, and definitely cheaper than the chemical routes.

R J Talley · « **Reply #13 on:** April 15, 2009, 06:17:34 PM »

Run a really wet patch of Kroil down the bore and allow it to sit 30 or so minutes. Then run a very snug patch down the bore and the lead will come out in flakes. Repeat if needed. Works for me.

jsh · « **Reply #14 on:** April 21, 2009, 02:23:44 PM »

I don't post up here much as i do a lot of reading more than commenting. I wll comment to "bulletstuffer" .
If you are leading a gun on a regular basis, somthing is for sure wrong. Wether it is the size, the lube or the alloy or the speed. Leading is somthing one will get in a bore sometime sooner or later. Fixing it and keeping it from doing so can be the hard part at times.
I have a BF in 30-20 that has around 2000 rounds through it and no lead. I dry patch and then a patch of Kroil and that is it. I do run a dry patch before firing though. That case is no speed demon, running it at 30x221 speeds.
Lloyd mentioned the jacketed bullet cleaning method. I have had the exact opposite results, just ironed the lead into the grooves. Worst mess I have ever had. May be a difference in our alloys too. No disrespect to you Lloyd, I have read a lot of your post here there and yon and respect your findings using CB's.
jeff

Lead pot · « **Reply #15 on:** May 02, 2009, 05:48:45 AM »

Leading starts from using bullets to small for the bore/groove most generally.
But also the combination of a bullet to hard and to small.
If you get lead in the bore and don't get it out when your done shooting it will just collect more every time you shoot.
Just the slightest bit of lead in the corner of the groove will just keep building up.
You can look down the barrel and it looks like a mirror you might think you got the lead cleaned out, but just run a snug cotton flannel patch through the bore and if you see gray streaks the lead is still there till the patch comes out just as clean as it went in.

I agree with jsh.
Running a copper bullet over lead just irons it in and even covers it with copper fouling, the jacketed bullet will not clean the lead out.
If you shoot jackets, and don't clean the bore removing the copper fouling that will amplify the lead problems.

When you clean the bore with solvents with concoctions like peroxide and vinegar your asking for a pitted bore especially if you don't get all of the lead or copper fouling out.
This stuff will get under the fouling and starts eating the barrel, and the same goes with the bore cleaners with ammonia. If you don't get the bore clean before you stop cleaning that stuff will get under the fouling and pits will start under the fouling and you will always have a rough bore that will pull lead and copper.
I shoot several thousand round of lead bullets through my black powder rifles every year and a few of my rifles will have some lead flakes when I clean.
The best I have found getting the lead out is Kr-Oil or pure gun turpentine.
First I clean the bore, I use water with a little oil soap mixed in.
I run a couple dry patches through and that will tell me if I have lead. If It shows lead I run a patch with turpentine through and let is set a minute or two then I push a tight flannel patch through and that will just about get it all, I do this twice.
Then I run some kr through and follow with a tight dry patch most generally there is no more lead but I run one mre dry clean patch and if there are no gray streaks on the patch I oil the bore and the job is done.
All this takes me less than 15 minutes to get it clean.

LP.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #16 on:** May 03, 2009, 02:39:15 AM »

i agree totaly with your post and it could be why we but heads on my method of removing it. If your gun is leading more then just a trace you are doing something wrong or your gun needs attention. You could be casting to soft, using a pour lube or be using bullets that dont fit your bore. Your gun could also be the culprid. It could have a rough bore. A bore that is not of proper size. In a handgun there is many other things that come into play. chamber alinment throat size ect. The first thing you need to do is find your problem and correct it. bottom line is if a gun is leading badly its not going to shoot well either. If my guns are out of dimention i fix them or sell them. Ive been around cast bullets long enough to usually know what works and what doesnt. So the leading in my guns is minimal and is easily removed with a couple jacketed bullets. Most of my guns can be shot all day and not show a bit of leading. I would also guess that if shooting jacketed bullets in a moderatly leaded bore irons the lead into the bore you have one of two problems. Either your bore is rough and is holding the lead and it could then benifit from some lapping or the jacketed bullets your using are to small for the bore. Ive seen may 9mms for example with 358 bores and ive seen jacketed bullets as small as 356 sold for them. dont count on this combo to clean your gun. Ive seen some people that do this recomend you turn a hp bullet upside down in the case and shoot it out backwards. Ive never had a need to do it but it would probably work even better. Even a couple gas checked bullets will clean alot of lead out of a gun. Again even a cast bullet has to be sized properly to work.

Quote from: jsh on April 21, 2009, 02:23:44 PM

I don't post up here much as i do a lot of reading more than commenting. I wll comment to "bulletstuffer" .
If you are leading a gun on a regular basis, somthing is for sure wrong. Wether it is the size, the lube or the alloy or the speed. Leading is somthing one will get in a bore sometime sooner or later. Fixing it and keeping it from doing so can be the hard part at times.
I have a BF in 30-20 that has around 2000 rounds through it and no lead. I dry patch and then a patch of Kroil and that is it. I do run a dry patch before firing though. That case is no speed demon, running it at 30x221 speeds.
Lloyd mentioned the jacketed bullet cleaning method. I have had the exact opposite results, just ironed the lead into the grooves. Worst mess I have ever had. May be a difference in our alloys too. No disrespect to you Lloyd, I have read a lot of your post here there and yon and respect your findings using CB's.
jeff

iiranger · « **Reply #17 on:** May 05, 2009, 08:28:19 AM »

I am continually surprised that no one seems to remember the existence of "brass wool." You can use "steel wool" in the finer grades WITH GREAT CARE. I don't trust my fingers and, supposedly, you cannot damage the bore with brass wool. I suspect the "copper scrubbers" are more brass and a quick and easy (steal one from the wife) dodge, but if you want to do it right... brass wool is out there in larger hardware stores...

As said, if you are getting much leading, you need to adjust your load/loading. With the modern lubes available... no reason to put up with much.

The lubricated lead bullet is really riding on a "slick" of lube and shouldn't leave much behind. Also as suggested, a couple of jacketed bullet will push most of this out, fired last. Or gas checked bullets. Or the zinc ringed base... (try to find any). In fact, Jack O'Connor wrote that as an ROTC shooter in the days of the cupro nickle jackets they would pull a bullet, dump half of the powder out of the case and re insert the bullet point first so the base is forward and fire a couple of those last of the day to reduce cleaning effort needed. Scrub out the nickle deposits. WW I era.

And with the super solvents or Ed's Red, clean up shouldn't take much. I was most pleased with Bell Lab's "Wipe Away" (yellow cleaning cloth) but haven't seen one for some time. Haven't looked. Luck.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #18 on:** May 05, 2009, 03:51:18 PM »

iiranger brings up another old trick i used to play with. If you have zinc and dont want to waste it cast a few bullets (use a seperate pot and a cheap lee mold) and use them to clean lead out of your barrel. One or two of them will clean it as well as jacketed bullets do.

Jagguy · « **Reply #19 on:** June 02, 2009, 07:15:23 AM »

I used to work with a guy that used to lead up the barrels of his revolvers pretty bad and he said he would plug and fill the barrel with mercury and let it sit for a while. He said the mercury would dissolve the lead and leave the barrel clean with no scrubbing. Has anyone heard of this?
Of course the problem of what to do with the contaminated mercury would be more of an issue than in the lead barrel!
I have always wondered if this was true or not.
-greg

quickdtoo · « **Reply #20 on:** June 02, 2009, 08:42:16 AM »

Quote from: Jagguy on June 02, 2009, 07:15:23 AM

Of course the problem of what to do with the contaminated mercury would be more of an issue than in the lead barrel!

As if mercury wasn't a contaminant all by itself!!

Tim

dscp · « **Reply #21 on:** July 02, 2009, 09:09:08 PM »

GREG
I can vouce most assuredly that "almagamation" does occur . And the lead is washed out . I do not remember the details ( have referances if you need it) but the leadA is heated and releases the lead and 'pure' mercury . I would do this but never found
enough mercury to do it with . BUT the lead is NOT thrown away .
I use CPL BREAKFREE and get similar results . If you are interested in either process please let me know .
( ps I do have over 100 hours of college chemistry to back what I say )
dscp

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #22 on:** July 03, 2009, 12:43:07 AM »

ive also taken so pretty badly fouled barrels and plugged them and filled them with penetrating oil and let the soak for a couple days and the lead came right out. bottom line is like was said about. If you have leading that bad you need to fix the gun.

mauser98us · « **Reply #23 on:** July 03, 2009, 06:31:25 PM »

Hoppe's Tornado brushes work great

Jagguy · « **Reply #24 on:** July 08, 2009, 01:42:04 PM »

"GREG
I can vouce most assuredly that "almagamation" does occur . And the lead is washed out . I do not remember the details ( have referances if you need it) but the leadA is heated and releases the lead and 'pure' mercury . I would do this but never found
enough mercury to do it with . BUT the lead is NOT thrown away .
I use CPL BREAKFREE and get similar results . If you are interested in either process please let me know .
( ps I do have over 100 hours of college chemistry to back what I say )
dscp"

dscp, thanks for the info. I myself don't have an issue with leading up my barrels but was curious as to whether this was true. I actually do have access to enough mercury to clean anything I would need but doubt if I ever would use it. Use to use a lot of mercury in the water business for altitude control valves.
-greg

Terbltim · « **Reply #25 on:** July 19, 2009, 02:06:52 AM »

I use [and recommend] the copper scrubber pads wrapped on a bore brush but do it dry.
I do this for rifles & handguns.
Using the magnet [to check the pad] is good advice too.
Doing it dry works great and its easy to clean the pad for re-use. Just tap it a few times over the trashcan.
I get several barrels and cleaning sessions done this way with one piece of pad, (several same-caliber gunz.) One pad now goes a loooong way.
Once I got turned on to doing it dry I don't use solvents in the bore at all any more except a mop or patch SLIGHTLY moistened with any type lube to remove lead-dust.
I'll also repeat what another reply said...
if you have more than just a trace of lead in the bore there is more attention needed regarding why/how it got there. Believe it.

Davemuzz · « **Reply #26 on:** July 19, 2009, 02:31:17 AM »

Quote from: Terbltim on July 19, 2009, 02:06:52 AM

I use [and recommend] the copper scrubber pads wrapped on a bore brush but do it dry.
I do this for rifles & handguns.
Using the magnet [to check the pad] is good advice too.
Doing it dry works great and its easy to clean the pad for re-use. Just tap it a few times over the trashcan.
I get several barrels and cleaning sessions done this way with one piece of pad, (several same-caliber gunz.) One pad now goes a loooong way.
Once I got turned on to doing it dry I don't use solvents in the bore at all any more except a mop or patch SLIGHTLY moistened with any type lube to remove lead-dust.
I'll also repeat what another reply said...
if you have more than just a trace of lead in the bore there is more attention needed regarding why/how it got there. Believe it.

Terbltim,

Your advice is sound and simple to follow. Not only that, but it works. I can't understand why, after you post such a simple solution to this problem, those with leading issues seem to ignore this simple yet easy method of de-leading.

I suppose they are looking for something more complex that involves lazers or perhaps bigfoot?

I dunno. Just a guess on my part.

Dave

Terbltim · « **Reply #27 on:** October 20, 2009, 01:19:31 PM »

Quote from: Davemuzz on July 19, 2009, 02:31:17 AM

Quote from: Terbltim on July 19, 2009, 02:06:52 AM
I use [and recommend] the copper scrubber pads wrapped on a bore brush but do it dry.
I do this for rifles & handguns.
Using the magnet [to check the pad] is good advice too.
Doing it dry works great and its easy to clean the pad for re-use. Just tap it a few times over the trashcan.
I get several barrels and cleaning sessions done this way with one piece of pad, (several same-caliber gunz.) One pad now goes a loooong way.
Once I got turned on to doing it dry I don't use solvents in the bore at all any more except a mop or patch SLIGHTLY moistened with any type lube to remove lead-dust.
I'll also repeat what another reply said...
if you have more than just a trace of lead in the bore there is more attention needed regarding why/how it got there. Believe it.

Terbltim,

Your advice is sound and simple to follow. Not only that, but it works. I can't understand why, after you post such a simple solution to this problem, those with leading issues seem to ignore this simple yet easy method of de-leading.

I suppose they are looking for something more complex that involves lazers or perhaps bigfoot?

I dunno. Just a guess on my part.

Dave

Dave,
I just got back and saw this reply of yours.
I think most folks find it hard to try something "new", especially if it isn't what they already think of as "normal". I tried much of what the other guys recommend and some of it worked okay. All those methods are messy compared to a dry scrubber.
The dry copper scrubber on a bronze brush was an idea I got while reading Veral Smith's book: Jacketed Performance With Cast Bullets.
I gave it a try and never looked back.
A caution is, for rifles, there tends to be a substantial amount of lead-dust that acculumates in the chamber and, if you're not careful, in your action. I do all my guns on a flat surface and situated so most of the dust falls out onto a paper-towel under the muzzle and breach. The paper towell is there for that purpose. Easy to see all that lead dust. Horrifying at times!
The smaller the amount of lead seems to equate with a finer dust.
Clean that dust up carefully and give some thought on preventing it from getting into the guns action.
I am gratified that you tried and like the dry method.
Thanks for saying so.

Davemuzz · « **Reply #28 on:** October 20, 2009, 04:22:09 PM »

Terbltim,

Actually.....it wasn't the copper....it was using Bigfoot's hair.

Dave

stubshaft · « **Reply #29 on:** October 20, 2009, 06:54:00 PM »

Kroil! and a "chore-boy" bob on a brass brush.