Medium Velocity Jacketed 44 load for deer

[rimfire]

I am through with 1500 fps loads with a 240 HP if I can help it.  Although every deer shot with these has gone down real quick, it is just beating up my hands too much even with just a little practice.

I have found that I like the loads I am trying with IMR 4227, but I need to pick a bullet that will expand down to 1000 fps at impact.  I want to load around 1200 fps or so, which puts me around 1050 fps at 100 yards with a range of BCs.

Anyone who can suggest a bullet that will still expand reliably at these low velocities.  Note I am looking for jacketed to try.  I already have a 250 grain WFNGC cast load at around 1150-1200 fps [have not chronoed yet] to compare.  They are shooting very accurately from my Bisley Hunter.  Have not tried them in my FA 83 yet, but that thing has so far shot anything I have fed it very well.

The only idea I have right now is the old Speer half jacket design, but I do not know of they even make them anymore.  Anyone know?   

[Redhawk1]

Wish I could help, but I don't use jacketed bullets. What is wrong with down loading a hard cast bullet, you don't need the expansion in my opinion. 

[Bigeasy]

The Speer Gold Dot bullet has a reputation for easy expansion, and good weight retention.  I like XTP's, but tend to load hot when using jacket bullets in my magnum six guns.  I would avoid using lighter weight bullets to reduce recoil, as you may compromise penitration.

Larry

[BBF]

Speer's # 13 manual  lists a 225 gr JHP-SWC bullet(#4435) which appears to be a half jacket.
In a Blackhawk I see MV's from mid 1500 fps down to just below 1300 fps using N-110 ,H-110, 2400,AA#9 and WW 296 and IMR 4227 as low as 12176 fps

They also show their 240 gr Mag JHP and Mag JSP in the 44 S&W Special loads which are max MV just below 900 fps. These two bullets also show in their rifle section where they are loaded to produce  just under 1800 fps.
That is a large spread in MV's IMO

[Ole Man Dan]

Rimfire:

If you already have a good load with the WFN, why not use it.  That's what I did.  I switched to cast after a failure by a name brand hollow point.  Deer/Hogs go down just as fast with the cast bullets. 
(A 265 WFN/GC @ 1200fps (.45) gave complete penetration on a Elk last year.  A 250 WFN @ 1200 works on everything I've shot with a .44) 

I'm hooked on what works...
I shoot more & get beat up less by recoil.  What's not to love?

[rimfire]

Details on Elk take with that WFNGC@1200 fps?

While I am going to try the cast load, I have heard so much about the jacketed causing a faster reaction of Whitetail on down I wanted to consider that also.n  Nice to have options, especially with the price of hard cast WFNGC that I have found that are sized for my Ruger at .4315.  I got them at Beartooth so far because I will not cast my own. 

Any suggestions for an alternate supplier who can size at this point?

[Mohawk]

Details on Elk take with that WFNGC@1200 fps?

While I am going to try the cast load, I have heard so much about the jacketed causing a faster reaction of Whitetail on down I wanted to consider that also.n  Nice to have options, especially with the price of hard cast WFNGC that I have found that are sized for my Ruger at .4315.  I got them at Beartooth so far because I will not cast my own. 

Any suggestions for an alternate supplier who can size at this point?

  It doesn't, rimfire. Everything from a Lead Round Nose to a Semi-Jacketed Hollow Point that I've used on deer in a handgun they all reacted pretty much the same. They run about 40yds and fall over dead. All hits were in heart/lung area. Double lung hit will give you good insurance. 

[Ak.Hiker]

The Sierra JHC Sports Master #8610 is rated to expand down to 950 fps. This is a 240 grain hollow point bullet. I double checked in the Sierra Handgun Reloading Manual. It sure would not be a trick to run it at 1200 or a little less. I really like their 250 grain Full Profile bullet running at about 1200 or so out of my Taurus 44 or Super Blackhawk. Pretty moderate recoil but still a good 44 Magnum load when penetration is desired. Of course the Full Profile bullet will not offer any expansion on deer. The older I get the less I enjoy the heavy recoil of those top end loads. I also like the idea of using your good cast load for hunting. Elmer Keith ran his heavy 44 Special load pretty close to what you are running in your cast load. I even read that he really did not want a load any hotter when the 44 Magnum was developed.

[Mikey]

rimfire:  if you are looking for something to try, why don't you consider the info provided in the thread on making 44 caliber bullets from 40 S&W cases?  Now there's a jacketed slug with expansion possibilities for ya.  Just a thought.  Mikey.

[Graybeard]

Do NOT expect any JHP to open enough to notice when started at 1200 or less. Sure it might and if it does that's nice but chances are it will at most buckle the nose a wee bit. If you want the "maybe" better or faster killing effect of a JHP then you gotta move them fast. Otherwise just stick with a cast with wide meplat.

[Lloyd Smale]

if you insist on jacketed bullets. the speer half jackets are hard to beat. Im sure theyed still open up at 1200fps

[Ole Man Dan]

Rimfire;
I'm in my 60s and my wrist no longer tolerate heavy recoil.  So I shoot med. velocity loads.  I can't get expansion 100% of the time with JHP, so I tried JSP for a couple of yrs.  It was only natural that I eventually began to shoot more cast than anything else. I don't cast my own, so I have tried many makes.
I like the CAST PERFORMANCE hard cast bullets.  I use a GC. on my bullets because I think it shoots better in more of my guns.   
The 6x6 was shot while on my way to a stand.  He slipped into some thick stuff and was coming in my direction.  My rifle was slung and it required less movement to shoot him with my pistol. DON'T SLING YOUR RIFLE. The shot was 25-35 yds, thru the far shoulder and out.  He ran a little more than 60yds and went down.  This may have been a fluke, but he went down almost as quick as a Deer.
(Right place, Right Time, and a little luck) 
I had planned to use a Custom .35 Whelen w/250 gr. bullets if I got a shot.
I didn't mean to talk about Hunting, but in this case the Cast bullet worked well and penetrated.

[Masterblaster1]

Consider there are two ways to reduce recoil, use less powder charge or drop bullet weight. Pick your poison. I personally would look at a 200 grain gold got or via the other route drop the powder charge and use a run of the mill 240 grain jacketed soft point. Any bullet of this caliber through the heart or lungs of deer will equal venison. I have used the speer half jacket and although they expand good at low velocity, they were horribly inaccurate in 2 .44 mags/ Ruger carbine, and SBH bisley hunter. I tried various powder levels and they all sucked from and accuracy standpoint, the leftovers are now plinking ammo.

[Glanceblamm]

already have a 250 grain WFNGC cast load at around 1150-1200 fps [have not chronoed yet] to compare.  They are shooting very accurately from my Bisley Hunter.  Have not tried them in my FA 83 yet, but that thing has so far shot anything I have fed it very well.

Sometimes what you are looking for can be right under your nose and IMO, this is it. Just take a look at the Meplat of your Jacketed HP in comparison with your wfngc. The latter is pre-expanded and we know that they cannot be stopped by the likes of a Whitetail. We also know that it is very rare to drop any deer in it's tracks (read CNC shock) with either the Jacketed or the cast out of a sixgun so the WFN @ 1100-1200 may be just what you are looking for recoil wise...just my thoughts.

[Jack Magnum]

I am through with 1500 fps loads with a 240 HP if I can help it.  Although every deer shot with these has gone down real quick, it is just beating up my hands too much even with just a little practice.

I have found that I like the loads I am trying with IMR 4227, but I need to pick a bullet that will expand down to 1000 fps at impact.  I want to load around 1200 fps or so, which puts me around 1050 fps at 100 yards with a range of BCs.

Anyone who can suggest a bullet that will still expand reliably at these low velocities.  Note I am looking for jacketed to try.  I already have a 250 grain WFNGC cast load at around 1150-1200 fps [have not chronoed yet] to compare.  They are shooting very accurately from my Bisley Hunter.  Have not tried them in my FA 83 yet, but that thing has so far shot anything I have fed it very well.

The only idea I have right now is the old Speer half jacket design, but I do not know of they even make them anymore.  Anyone know?   

I have used a lighter jacketed bullets like Sierra 180 grJHC and the Horn. 180-200 gr XTP and loaded 25.5 gr of #2400 powder which is a MAX load but in my super redhawk doesn't kick bad. I've shot about 28-29 deer with these bullets and they have gone down quick and the longest ran 45 yds. I have shot them as close as 15 yds and my longestshot BROADSIDE was at 95 yds. I wouldn't feel good about making going away shots with that light bullet but sticking to the limitations I have experienced dead deer down quickly.I  consider the 44mag an excellent deer cliber but would stay within 100yds with any bullet. I know there will be lots of opinions about the best bullet and I am just talking deer game NOT bear.

[Graybeard]

Long long ago in the days before the XTP was even being considered at Hornady I was shooting their .429" 180 grain JHPs in my S&W 29 with 10-5/8" barrel over 12.0 or 12.5 grains of Unique. I've forgotten precisely which load it was but it was a mild load that still took down the 100 meter rams in NRA silhouette matches with ease.

I shot that load a bunch both in practice and in competition and was darn good with it. One year in B'ham they held iron sight matches in addition to the regular Hunter Pistol matches that allowed scopes. I won every iron sight match with that combination shooting against the best shooters in the state that year.

I took it deer hunting that year and since the load had worked so well for me on metal targets I wanted to see how it worked on deer. When the shot came it was at 25-35 yards or so and broadside. I put the bullet thru both lungs and the buck went down in sight of me after a short run. I was a bit surprised to find the bullet stuck under the hide on the off side. It had failed to fully penetrate and exit and the nose of it had only barely begun to mushroom and I do mean BARELY otherwise except for the rifling marks it was in almost good enough shape to have been loaded again.

I kept that bullet for many years and might still have it in a drawer somewhere. I never again used a less than 240 grain bullet in my .44 magnums and that's the only bullet I can recall shooting a deer with from my .44 magnums that failed to exit. It worked and worked fine even tho it was far from a max load. I guess that had I pushed it to the max velocity it would have expanded more and who knows might even have exited. Still I was so disappointed in the lack of exit I stopped using the light bullets for hunting big game. The 240 XTP works beautifully out to at least 100 yards and expands when pushed to full velocity over 24.0 grains of H110/W296. Still if I were going to use less than a full load I'd chose a cast bullet of 240 or so grains over any reduced charge with jacketed bullets and just can't bring myself to try those light weight pills again.

[Mohawk]

 Any Remington Semi-Jacketed Hollow Point(SJHP) will expand as factory loaded from .38 standard pressure through .357 Magnum on deer. And it will penetrate, a whole 7" on a broadside shot, to kill the critter through the heart/lung area and put meat on the table. I can't see the .44 family performing any different.  Does the expanded bullet make a difference, I don't think so. I think SWC would do the same. Why are so many people obsessed with anchoring a deer as opposed to watching it fall within 50yds, I don't know, it amazes me. If anyone CONSISTANTLY drops, meaning "dead right there", with ANY .44 Mag I want video, otherwise, it is another promotion. Puncture, deflate, exasirpate, and poke holes through both lungs with anything, it will die quick. If your projectile penetrates, and gets through, even the 246gr LRN .44 Spl, then you have a winner on whitetails. Any larger animal I have no experience so I can not comment.

[stxhunter]

If you want better penetration why not go to a heavier bullet?

[Jack Magnum]

Long long ago in the days before the XTP was even being considered at Hornady I was shooting their .429" 180 grain JHPs in my S&W 29 with 10-5/8" barrel over 12.0 or 12.5 grains of Unique. I've forgotten precisely which load it was but it was a mild load that still took down the 100 meter rams in NRA silhouette matches with ease.

I shot that load a bunch both in practice and in competition and was darn good with it. One year in B'ham they held iron sight matches in addition to the regular Hunter Pistol matches that allowed scopes. I won every iron sight match with that combination shooting against the best shooters in the state that year.

I took it deer hunting that year and since the load had worked so well for me on metal targets I wanted to see how it worked on deer. When the shot came it was at 25-35 yards or so and broadside. I put the bullet thru both lungs and the buck went down in sight of me after a short run. I was a bit surprised to find the bullet stuck under the hide on the off side. It had failed to fully penetrate and exit and the nose of it had only barely begun to mushroom and I do mean BARELY otherwise except for the rifling marks it was in almost good enough shape to have been loaded again.

I kept that bullet for many years and might still have it in a drawer somewhere. I never again used a less than 240 grain bullet in my .44 magnums and that's the only bullet I can recall shooting a deer with from my .44 magnums that failed to exit. It worked and worked fine even tho it was far from a max load. I guess that had I pushed it to the max velocity it would have expanded more and who knows might even have exited. Still I was so disappointed in the lack of exit I stopped using the light bullets for hunting big game. The 240 XTP works beautifully out to at least 100 yards and expands when pushed to full velocity over 24.0 grains of H110/W296. Still if I were going to use less than a full load I'd chose a cast bullet of 240 or so grains over any reduced charge with jacketed bullets and just can't bring myself to try those light weight pills again.

Like I said ,Everybody will have their own special recipe,The 180's-200 I use do the job quick . I have had a few on long range not go completely thru but, Went down equally fast. With the 44 mag It doesn't matter if it expands anyway. When my son first started hunting with the 44mag I loaded light loads so he wouldn't be turned off by recoil. In the early years he shot a few deer with a 240-250 gr cast using 7.0 grs of unique. Under 50 yd shots but they did the job. I think shot placement is the most important thing.Graybeard, I think I'll give your unique load a try and do some range work with it.Thanks for listing loads and your results as it's always nice to see what works for others.