Author Topic: 43 years ago today  (Read 5083 times)

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Offline AtlLaw

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43 years ago today
« on: March 30, 2009, 05:55:22 AM »
43 years ago today, about this time of day, in the former Republic of Viet Nam, at the base of the Chu Pong Massif in the Ia Drang Valley, a few kilometers southwest of LZ X-Ray, a location made famous by Mel Gibson in his movie “We Were Soldiers,” less then 30 Troopers of A Troop, 1st. Squadron 9th Cavalry Regiment engaged the thousand man 33rd PAVN (People’s Army of [North] Viet Nam) Regiment.  This was the mission of the 1/9th, the “eyes and ears” of the First Cavalry Division; locate, engage and destroy the enemy, or maintain contact until relieved.

However, this area of engagement was out of range of supporting artillery, and the First Brigade of the First Cavalry Division, who exercised “operational control” of A Troop, had no reserve forces ready to commit to the 1/9th’s support.  It was therefore decided that A Troop would break contact with the enemy and the Troopers fought their way back to the LZ (landing zone) for extraction.  A Troop’s lift ships (UH-1D - Huey’s) went in and got some of the Troopers out, at the cost of one pilot killed and all others wounded.  As a result, all of A Troop’s lift aircraft were too damaged by ground fire to continue flying and B Troop’s lift section was ordered into the air to complete the extraction of what Troopers remained alive in the LZ.

At that time I was a young Cavalry Officer with just a few weeks “in country,” and was assigned as a pilot in B Troop’s lift section.  I flew the third aircraft of the three ship formation that went into that LZ.  The first ship was shot down trying to take off from the LZ; the pilots, a crewmember and the Troopers that managed to get on board all died from enemy fire.  All of the surviving Troopers in the LZ had gotten into the second aircraft which managed to fly out despite heavy damage from ground fire.  That crew was unhurt although one of the pilots was KIA 2 months later.  My crew and I went into the LZ twice.  The second time, before I could touch down, my aircraft started burning from the weapons fire it was taking and we crashed about a hundred meters west of the LZ.

Some time later, A Company of the 1st Battalion, 12th Cavalry was landed in another LZ and swept toward the original LZ picking my crew and me up along the way.  By this time North Vietnamese soldiers had almost reached our position and a battle that lasted until the next morning ensued.  Had it not been for the sacrifice of all those fine young men I am sure I would not be here to write this. 

That wasn’t my only battle, but it was my first.  There were many more that year, and more still the second year I spent in that country.  During that second tour I commanded my own Air Cavalry Troop and was the “old man” at age 25.  Throughout that time, when one of my Troopers died, a piece of me died also.

I have come to grips with my survivor’s guilt over the last 4 decades, and part of that has been the evolution of this day into a symbol to me, a day of mourning and remembrance.  I will never forget the fine young men I served with.  Long ago they answered their country’s call, did their duty, and far too many made the ultimate sacrifice.  But now we have more of the very best of our young men and women fighting on foreign soil.  I see their young, eager faces every day and they are melding into the faces I knew so long ago.  And I know that soon many of these bright countenances will take on the look of innocence lost, or the light in those eyes will go out forever.

So please, join me today in just a moment of prayer.  Not for those who have gone before, those brave souls await me in Fiddler’s Green, but for the men and women now in our Country’s service.  May God keep them safe and whole and return them to us.
Richard
Former Captain of Horse, keeper of the peace and interpreter of statute.  Currently a Gentleman of leisure.
Nemo me impune lacessit

                      
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Offline Cheesehead

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Re: 43 years ago today
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2009, 06:19:38 AM »
Great story about Great Men.

Cheese
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance.

Offline Skunk

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Re: 43 years ago today
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2009, 06:42:44 AM »
Richard,

Thank you so much for sharing that story. Like Cheese said, absolutely great story about great men.

I am honored to bow my head and join you in a moment of prayer for all the great men and women of our military.
Mike

"Praise the Lord and Pass the Ammunition" - Frank Loesser

Offline ironglow

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Re: 43 years ago today
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2009, 08:44:05 AM »
Atlaw;
   thanks for sharing! You just gave us an insight into the lives of courageous men. Thanks for your service and may God Bless you richly..
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline dutchie

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Re: 43 years ago today
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2009, 09:36:41 AM »
Amen and God Bless to them all

Dutchy

Offline buffermop

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Re: 43 years ago today
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2009, 10:31:05 AM »
I personally knew one of these soldiers who lost his life in that engagement. We were classmates in high school He enlisted after graduation. Back then not too many kids ever heard of Vietnam. I also share a deep moment of silence for all that lost their life in that battle.

Offline LONGTOM

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Re: 43 years ago today
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2009, 10:49:00 AM »
Richard there is no shame in bowing ones head and maybe even shedding a tear for those in harms way both past and present.

I was blessed in the fact that I did not have to take my senior trip as the draft was halted just before I was to report.
Thank GOD!

Many times I have though what it would have been like for me If I would have had to go.
I still can't answer that one.

Through the eyes of my brother who was there for 13 months and 17 days and a few friends who made it back I have gained a view of something I never want to see.
Sure I was gun-ho and wanted to do my part and I was scared to death that I might get my chance all at the same time.

It all came back a couple of years ago when I had the great honor to visit the wall with my oldest son (15 at the time) as an escort for his high school on a field trip to all the war memorials in DC.
What a humbling experience.

IWO JIMA is so big, the eyes of the soldiers of the W.W.II memorial (or maybe it was KOREA I don't remember. Those who have been there will know the one of which I speak) in their gray outlines late in the evening is so haunting.
The three NAM vets near the wall, they all look so life like.

I will pray with you my friend and with all those who have and are serving our great country in our military.
I will also pray that my two young sons never know the horrors of war!

I wish I could remember the quote from FDR on the wall leading to his memorial.
They just about cover what war is all about!


LONGTOM
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That my two young sons may never have to know the horrors of war. 

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To those in the military, I salute you!

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Offline ButlerFord45

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Re: 43 years ago today
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2009, 03:02:59 AM »
Gary Owen
Butler Ford
He who does not punish evil, commands it to be done.-Leonardo da Vinci
An armed society is a polite society-Robert A. Heinlein
Only the dead have seen the end of war- Plato
Lord, make my words as sweet as honey
tomorrow I may have to eat them- A lady's sweatshirt

Offline Hodr

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Re: 43 years ago today
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2009, 03:26:15 AM »
42 years ago I was dropped from OCS at Benning school for wayward boys.  I wasn't hard enough to pass that test.  I was bitter at first but came to realise that the brigade commander made the right decision.  I would have made a lousy officer.  I did make a good NCO.  Sir the men in your commands were there to be used for the forceful application of US Policy.  Our dead will be with us forever.  I no longer regret leading as an NCO and surviving.  Over the years i have reached the conclusion that though I was part and parcel of using lives I never wasted a life or misused my authority.  Still there are too many names on the wall. 

blindhari

Sgt, Ranger
Like my father before me
I will never forget
The Toast,    Absent Companions








TANSTAAFL

Offline ironglow

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Re: 43 years ago today
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2009, 06:25:16 AM »
 Amen; Ranger
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline gofish

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Re: 43 years ago today
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2009, 06:39:39 AM »
Seams like yesterday . Try www.161ahc.org.  when you get there look for the stories section. Served in country 1967-1968.

gofish

Offline ironglow

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Re: 43 years ago today
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2009, 02:56:50 PM »
Last summer our legion post came into a gift from a deceased member, so we did a little sprucing up. We tore down an old, abandoned hotel next to our post and at the major corner in our hamlet (blinking red light)..and put up a memorial park for our veterans. Below, see a photo of the park with the rear of our legion post just showing a bit in the background. Our building is an old GAR (Grand Army of the Republic) hall and still Has the letters GAR way up high on the facade.

 1) Photo of park

 2) Closeup of soldier..note, he's 1st Cav..
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Dee

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Re: 43 years ago today
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2009, 03:24:58 PM »
AtlLaw, you are a hero of the first order, and have earned your place as a man's man. Too many talk the talk, and do not walk the walk. I salute you sir, and honor your bravery and your service. ;)
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline Oldshooter

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Re: 43 years ago today
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2009, 05:26:43 PM »
I was 14 When you were doing that Mr Atlaw, I knew nothing of it then, Viet nam was just vague news item that I heard now and then on the nightly news, when I listened.  It became a little more of an interest to me in 1970 when it was my turn to come up for the draft. I did not go to Southeast Asia then but I can tell you one thing, I do appreciate the fact that men like you did!


Thank you for your service and for your post.

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Offline mechanic

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Re: 43 years ago today
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2009, 12:32:16 PM »
Richard...

Thank you.
Molon Labe, (King Leonidas of the Spartan Army)

Offline AtlLaw

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Re: 43 years ago today
« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2009, 06:19:09 AM »
I’m very embarrassed.  For years I never talked about Viet Nam.  I still don’t usually talk about it or tell “war stories.”  Until recently I wouldn’t even have considered posting anything about combat experiences, no matter how abbreviated.  It’s just too private; and embarrassing when you are lauded for doing your duty.  The only reason I gave the brief overview of the events of that day was to explain why I feel the way I do and to solicit prayers for our military.  My dear mother always said “prayer helps” and I believe that.

If I were to talk about that day, I would talk about the Troopers like the crew chief on one of A Troop’s helicopters who pulled the dead pilot out of his seat and flew the aircraft to the base camp.  Or the other pilot on that aircraft who, despite his wounds, kept the aircraft in the air until the crew chief could take over.  Or the crews of what other B Troop aircraft that remained flyable flying at tree top level between my position and the enemy, long after all their ammunition was expended, even from their pistols, in an attempt to keep us from being overrun.  Or all the Troopers of the 12th Cavalry who unhesitatingly went into battle outnumbered almost 10 to 1.  Or the young 2nd Lieutenant Platoon Leader who, while we were pulling back from the first, furious clash with a wall of North Vietnamese, said to me “ I guess I’m in command of the company now, I’m setting up my last line of defense here, would you try to get med evac for my wounded?”  Or the wounded Trooper I grabbed as we pulled back from that engagement who said to me when I asked him how he was “Oh I’m okay sir; they just shot me in the ass.”  Or the Trooper who lay in the original LZ until the next morning, who miraculously survived after the enemy had moved through, bayoneting the dead and wounded.  Those young men, and many, many more, were the heroes on that ONE day.  One day out of the years we spent in that place.  Uncommon valor was, and is, a common virtue for our military.

I’m sorry for the second post, especially the length, and more especially for digressing.  But it was just something I felt the need to say.  I appreciate your words more then I can express, but my military service is not the issue; that was long ago.  We have a new generation “over there” and they need our prayers and our support now and when, God willing, they return.
Richard
Former Captain of Horse, keeper of the peace and interpreter of statute.  Currently a Gentleman of leisure.
Nemo me impune lacessit

                      
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Offline Oldshooter

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Re: 43 years ago today
« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2009, 06:36:38 AM »
Mr Atlaw Sir,

Thank you for the post. Who better to tell the story than someone like you. It brought back to my mind all the sacrifices men like you have made for this country throughout our history to make it a safe place to live.  Rest assured "they", never leave my mind or prayers for more than a brief moment at a time. We owe so many so much! My hat is off to you Sir.


 
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"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: 43 years ago today
« Reply #17 on: April 23, 2009, 08:09:06 AM »
ATlLaw , you are " A MAN AMONG MEN " thanks for shareing
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline ironglow

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Re: 43 years ago today
« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2009, 10:58:12 AM »
Atlaw;
  Here's a full weapon front "present arms"..thanks
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline BBF

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Re: 43 years ago today
« Reply #19 on: July 22, 2009, 07:15:15 AM »
  ex  Blue Lancer...........12th Cav, 1st Cav Div  (1960-62)

Our motto:  " Number One Sir"
What is the point of Life if you can't have fun.

Offline Dinny

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Re: 43 years ago today
« Reply #20 on: July 22, 2009, 07:58:32 AM »
AtLaw,
   Isn't it remarkable how much recalling those events still bothers you?  I have similar thoughts myself of a small country called Iraq. I was able to share some of my "horrors of war" stories with several other service members last year while I was at BNCOC.  All throughout our classes, we were upbeat and lively.  Not that day... Some of them felt left out, they never fought or lost anyone close. I can't really fault them for anything and in so many ways, I envy them. I just try to find the good in all things. Thanks for sharing. No chance you ever met another pilot named Richard "Duke" Ducasse?

~Dinny
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Offline AtlLaw

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Re: 43 years ago today
« Reply #21 on: July 22, 2009, 10:53:15 AM »
Richard "Duke" Ducasse.  No I don't think so.  But my memory isn't what it was.  There have been a lot of pilots through the years though.

There are many things that are just to personal to haphazardly share.  A lot of things many people, through no fault or shortcoming of their own, just wouldn't understand.

Thanks for your service Adam, and welcome home brother...
Richard
Former Captain of Horse, keeper of the peace and interpreter of statute.  Currently a Gentleman of leisure.
Nemo me impune lacessit

                      
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Offline mechanic

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Re: 43 years ago today
« Reply #22 on: July 22, 2009, 11:20:08 AM »
Richard "Duke" Ducasse.  No I don't think so.  But my memory isn't what it was.  There have been a lot of pilots through the years though.

There are many things that are just to personal to haphazardly share.  A lot of things many people, through no fault or shortcoming of their own, just wouldn't understand.

Thanks for your service Adam, and welcome home brother...

My Dad hardly told us anything about his war service.  Only after his death when I got his records did I have a sense of the enormity of what he went through.  I wish he had known some comrades in arms he could have talked to, I believe it would have helped him deal with it.

I say again, thank you sir for your service to our nation, and to ME as I get to live thus far in peace.

Ben
Molon Labe, (King Leonidas of the Spartan Army)

Offline Dinny

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Re: 43 years ago today
« Reply #23 on: July 22, 2009, 11:47:35 AM »

Thanks for your service Adam, and welcome home brother...

No, thank you for helping to set the example.  This is my life and I was destined to be in the Army like most of the older men in my family. Still the choice was mine.  Every generation has had a soldier.  My dad was in during the Vietnam Era, my grandfather during the Korean Conflict, my other grandfather in during WWII, and I know that I lost  past relatives in WWI and the Civil War. We are/were all leaders and peaceful men after our fighting days.  I look forward to those peaceful days, someday after I retire. For now, while I'm young and able, I will fight for what's right-freedom. BTW, I'm still in Iraq right now on Tour#2, barely a month after leaving Afg.  I hope to be home in Nov. I will have a daughter to meet when I get home. :'(

Thanks, Dinny
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Offline Dinny

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Re: 43 years ago today
« Reply #24 on: July 22, 2009, 09:11:36 PM »
AtLaw,
   All this talk reminds me of another great story.  This coming January, I will have been in the Army for 16 years.  I started out as an Engineer and in 2001 reclassed and became a Medic.  While I was at AIT in San Antonio at Fort Sam Houston, I met a very interesting man.  It all started the very first day we arrived and formed-up, I was a bit anxious that I would be the "old man" at age 26.  To my disbelief there were several prior service soldiers that were reclassing just like me.  But there was one man that stood out as being the oldest.  His name was SGT Erisman(sp?).  He was quite a bit older than all of his and I was relieved to see that he would be the "Old Man." Well as time went by we learned more and more about this old soldier.  I had the opportunity to go see the "then new" movie, We Were Soldiers. As some friends and I were planning, one of us asked SGT Erisman if he would like to come with us on the weekend to watch the movie. He graciously declined without an explanation.  And that was that, until...There was an incident where one of the young soldiers of his platoon became very frustrated with the older soldier slowing them down during PT.  He lashed out at the older soldier in anger.  It was handled very professionally by the older soldier and never seemed to raise much of a stink after that, until one day that same young soldier felt like expressing his opinion again.  This time SGT Erisman pulled him aside and told him a bit about his past. As the story goes, back in the early to mid 1960's he was a pilot himself and fought in the "Valley." He was still so bothered by his thoughts and memories of those times, that he keep it hidden and couldn't bare to watch the movie and open old scabs. We were all taken aback by these events and a great deal of respect was afforded the "old" soldier after that day.  Every Sunday morning we had Class A inspections.  Each week SGT Erisman would wear a different ribbon on his chest, starting with the lowest one and working his way up.  We ran out of weeks (16) before he got very high on his rack, but on graduation day, he wore them all.  Even his special skills badges along with his 1st Cav combat patch. He had more ribbons than the Colonel who presented his graduation certificate. His rack resembled a shield.  It was a very humbling experience for all of us.  SGT Erisman told me himself that he served on active-duty for 8 years back then, then after many years of civilian work he retired.  He came back in in 2001 after the tragic events of 9/11 and they granted him the rank of SGT, it was his plan to work as a full-time Reservist in Wisconsin until he could recieve a military retirement as well. I am glad today to say that he was my friend. Almost 8 years have passed since those days, I hope to meet him again someday and thank him for what he has done for us.

Thanks for the fond reminders and memories, we owe all those who fought before us the greatest respect...

Thanks, Dinny
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"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day that my child may have peace"
Thomas Paine

Offline AtlLaw

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Re: 43 years ago today
« Reply #25 on: July 23, 2009, 07:31:27 AM »
What a great rememberence Dinny!  I really appreciate your posting it.  I don't know why but it made me proud.  Maybe just from respect old soldiers have for each other.

Congratulations on the new baby!  I to came home to a child I had never seen.  Back then it took days for the Red Cross to notify me that she had been born and everyone was well.  Remember, there were no communication satellites in those days!

If your family needs anything, you have my email.
Richard
Former Captain of Horse, keeper of the peace and interpreter of statute.  Currently a Gentleman of leisure.
Nemo me impune lacessit

                      
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Offline Hodr

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Re: 43 years ago today
« Reply #26 on: July 23, 2009, 07:05:25 PM »
I was cadre at 3rd Army NCO academy at Benning when it was started back in the 60s.  Sgt Mjr  Whitley got us together and informed us that the next day we would be hosting foriegn General officers.  He made a special point of telling "pappy" to wear all decorations.  Pappy had been in tanks so long that he was 3/4 deaf and he NEVER wore a decorated uniform.  Breakfast we had four generals in our mess when Pappy walked in.  He had the most unique uniform I ever saw.  Bloused tanker boots running up to more decorations then existed on his chest, topped by a black lacquer helmet liner with an Indian on one side and a Third armor patch on the other.  The only thing missing was a congressional.  Whitley walked over and after perusal told him he had never seen a distingushed unit badge with 6 knots.  Pappy told him that he had been in 11 units awarded DSU and could not fit the rest on the bar.  Then he named the actions awarded for the units he was qualified for.  About that thime a West german 2 star asked to talk to Pappy.  They never left the mess hall that day.  They just sat and talked WWII and tanks.  Pappy taught land navigation and compass.  He became legend in the Third Army NCO Academy as all action and capability with no flash or fanfare.
Long Ago and Far Away
blindhari
TANSTAAFL

Offline rice paddy daddy

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Re: 43 years ago today
« Reply #27 on: April 22, 2010, 11:42:06 AM »
Richard, Welcome Home. I'm sure you know, but others may not, of the high regard us old guys have for Army helicopter pilots. Thanks for serving our country.
Big Al, Co A, 75th Spt Bn, 1st Brigade, 5th Infantry Div (Mech), Quang Tri Province, RVN 1969-70.
"There is nothing so exhilarating as to be shot at without result"  Winston Churchill

Member: Veterans of Foreign Wars, Vietnam Veterans of America, American Legion, AMVETS, Society of the Fifth Infantry Division

Offline AtlLaw

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Re: 43 years ago today
« Reply #28 on: April 22, 2010, 12:31:22 PM »
And Welcome home to you brother.  Glad you found us.
Richard
Former Captain of Horse, keeper of the peace and interpreter of statute.  Currently a Gentleman of leisure.
Nemo me impune lacessit

                      
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Offline Badnews Bob

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Re: 43 years ago today
« Reply #29 on: April 22, 2010, 01:09:19 PM »
Thanks Richard.
Badnews Bob
AE-2 USN retired