Author Topic: Question about union worker attitudes in Detroit?  (Read 7170 times)

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Offline Dee

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Re: Question about union worker attitudes in Detroit?
« Reply #90 on: April 10, 2009, 03:26:24 PM »
nomosendero, you can always tell an Illi "noise" yankee, but you can't tell him much. Most are like jidinil, they are CLOSET SOCIALISTS and like most socialist, wants our lazy southern dollars "ONCE AGAIN" to bail their sorry union azzs out.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline jdinil

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Re: Question about union worker attitudes in Detroit?
« Reply #91 on: April 10, 2009, 03:36:41 PM »
nomosendro, They were hired from the South because the local labor pools were not big enough to support the gigantic growth that occurred within industry in the Post WW2 era. Employers were desperate for workers and were forced to advertise in the South. That's where the unemployed and underemployed people were. That is the only reason. I'm sure there are nice farms in the South. In fact, I know there are.  But, I guess my point should be that without the "Northern" states output, we might be a much less well fed country. I just was enjoying messing with Dee too much and got carried away!

Offline jdinil

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Re: Question about union worker attitudes in Detroit?
« Reply #92 on: April 10, 2009, 03:37:35 PM »
Dee, I thought you were done with me?

Offline Dee

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Re: Question about union worker attitudes in Detroit?
« Reply #93 on: April 10, 2009, 03:38:28 PM »
Dee, you are wrong AGAIN! I am a conservative. I vote Republican almost always. I own firearms. That's why I am on this forum to begin with. I live 180 miles from the Chicago cesspool.  I'm against abortion.  I said I worked around UAW people. And, I think Lincoln made some major mistakes. The start of the erosion of State's Rights being one of them. I believe there have been much better presidents than Lincoln. What I am saying, for sure, is that the unions are not the sole source of the auto makers woes. They are not. You backwater hillbillies have limited experience with unions. So you are against them and afraid of them. Your "right to work" politicians have spread the vilification of unions to the unwashed masses in the South since the 1930's. The old plantation owner mentality. And you fall for it hook, line and sinker. Then so be it. I know inate intelligence is a rare commodity down there. Just keep that "right to starve" mentality! It's your god given right to do so. As too a pissing match. Well, I don't really consider this to be that much of one. You are entitled to your opinions. I have rather enjoyed this and have been amused by what you have been calling me. Remember, I'm a cold, hardhearted, Northerner. And not much gets to us. I'll leave it at that. Maybe we will have other discussions down the road!

BS! Your not a conservative. YOUR A CLOSET SOCIALIST, and a loud Illi"NOISE" yankee know it all! YOU want US, to bail out a failing union controlled "NORTHERN" AUTO INDUSTRY.
Being against abortion, and for guns, doesn't make you a conservative. It just makes you a hypocrite. Your a socialist, elitist, yankee know it all.
Why don't you go to D.C. with those other SOCIALIST , and get the CLOWN you elected president (small P) and take him back to that corrupt, crime ridden piece of crap state of yours. He, like you, fits in better in Illi "NOISE". You can't even keep a Govenor our of PRISON, and your criticizing US. What a joke. What is that? Two or Three Governors IN A ROW, in or going to the pen? What a bunch of losers. ::) Yea! You guys are the measuring stick alright.  ::) For CORRUPTION! ::)
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline Dee

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Re: Question about union worker attitudes in Detroit?
« Reply #94 on: April 10, 2009, 03:43:32 PM »
Dee, I thought you were done with me?

I've decided your way too entertaining. The most corrupt state in the union wanting our tax dollar to bail THEM out, and all the while telling us WE'RE backwoods. Now that is funny.
Braggin about farming like you invented it. Hell I was sittin on a wagon seat in the fifties when we were picking corn by hand.
I drink coffee in the cafe with friends that are farming 12,000 acres pluse EACH, and your trying to tell me your a SUPER FARMER. What a joke.
While your braggin, why don't you be A LITTLE HONEST, and tell the forum how much you get in government subsidies from our tax dollars. The subsidies ain't farmin, it's tax dollar charity. Conservative my ass. ::)
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline nomosendero

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Re: Question about union worker attitudes in Detroit?
« Reply #95 on: April 10, 2009, 03:45:37 PM »
nomosendero, you can always tell an Illi "noise" yankee, but you can't tell him much. Most are like jidinil, they are CLOSET SOCIALISTS and like most socialist, wants our lazy southern dollars "ONCE AGAIN" to bail their sorry union azzs out.

It looks like "stuck in the 60's" to me, people don't go up there to work anymore.

I just recently had a discussion with a Yankee that has moved in the area & he is close enough to hear my rifles, he said it scared his Dog, I made it clear that the Dog will have to adjust, I won't conform to that ignorance.

Alot of the retired folks that come here are from IL & IA & they are quick to point out they know everything. And then later on you will see them being Walmart greeters or something, not that such a job is bad, I just don't want to hear the phony big shot routine.
You will not make peace with the Bluecoats, you are free to go.

Offline Dee

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Re: Question about union worker attitudes in Detroit?
« Reply #96 on: April 10, 2009, 03:56:57 PM »
Same here nomosendero, everyone up north seems to want a handout if their in a union. No one gave me anything when the housing market crashed. I licked my wounds and went to work. In three years I have now cleared the note on land I had used for collateral on houses, and am making a comeback. Never back to where I was, but I got no hand outs, and didn't ask for any.
Folks that claim their conservative, because they are against abortion, and pro-2nd Amendment, then scream for government help, are SOCIALIST pure and simple.
I just want the damn government and the northerner socialists to get out of my way so I can make a living.
The old joke about the difference between a yankee, and a damn yankee isn't funny anymore. The damn yankees really won't go home. They come down here full advice, and self proclaimed wisdom.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline jdinil

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Re: Question about union worker attitudes in Detroit?
« Reply #97 on: April 10, 2009, 04:12:55 PM »
Dee, I never voted for Obama, being from Illinois I KNEW what he was. Didn't vote either time for Blago. Yes, we put our corrupt politicans in Prison. You dimwitted Southerners probably just keep electing them, I don't know. Most all of them are corrupt, no matter where they are.  Oh! So now I see you are sitting around drinking coffee with friends! I KNEW a donut shop was involved somewhere. I imagine those friends would have to farm 12,000 acres or go broke.  What do they net off that poor ground down there? $3 per acre, $4 per acre? MAYBE $5. Picking corn by hand? No, for as long as I can remember, we actually had machines to help with that! Of course, it yielded more than 10 or 12 bushels to the acre too. Hell, Grandad bought a new 4 bottom tractor in 1927! I didn't tell you I was a "super" anything. But thanks anyway! I know that's high praise from a Southern boy. And I have enjoyed providing some entertainment for you. You have certainly entertained me! Good evening to you!

Offline Dee

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Re: Question about union worker attitudes in Detroit?
« Reply #98 on: April 10, 2009, 04:21:27 PM »
No problem. jdinil. Your a perfect example of Illi"NOISE" etiquette. It was indeed refreshingly entertaining, although redundantly un-enlightening. But then again I didn't expect anything useful to come from Illi"NOISE". Never have. ;)
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline Cabin4

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Re: Question about union worker attitudes in Detroit?
« Reply #99 on: April 10, 2009, 04:31:46 PM »
I hope this does not stop yet. There is more info to emerge from these spirited exchanges while the intertainment value stays high.
Avery Hayden Wallace
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The States formed the Union. The Union did not form the States. States Rights!
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Offline Oldshooter

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Re: Question about union worker attitudes in Detroit?
« Reply #100 on: April 10, 2009, 04:35:02 PM »
OH common C4 there has to be a wreck on a Kaliforina freeway you could go watch!
“Owning a handgun doesn’t make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician.”

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Offline Cabin4

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Re: Question about union worker attitudes in Detroit?
« Reply #101 on: April 10, 2009, 04:49:00 PM »
OH common C4 there has to be a wreck on a Kaliforina freeway you could go watch!

None right now. But when one happens I'll be sure to let you know.
Avery Hayden Wallace
Obama Administration: A corrupt criminal enterprise of bold face liars.
The States formed the Union. The Union did not form the States. States Rights!
GET US OUT OF THE UN. NO ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT!
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Offline Dee

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Re: Question about union worker attitudes in Detroit?
« Reply #102 on: April 11, 2009, 01:10:58 AM »
Yea, really Cabin4. I myself am even gettin tired of readin my own posts to him. Besides, I wasn't kiddin.  ;D
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline williamlayton

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Re: Question about union worker attitudes in Detroit?
« Reply #103 on: April 11, 2009, 02:03:30 AM »
Let's see here.
Northern guys are socialist and anti-gun, lazy and no good unionist.
Southern guys are honest, hard working, anti-unionist, pro-gun and in favor of a Republic.
Both you guys need too take a deep breath and get some oxygen flowing.
There are both unions and non-union shops in Houston.
Brown and Root is a non-union shop and those folks are lucky too make $35,000 a year, after years of employment. I know one gentleman that worked for them 35 years. After his health failed, he couldn't work and had to quit, he had no income except for SS. B&R only hire contract workers, no union, no benefits.
Now the full time employees have benifits---you know, the corporate boys.
B&R became what it is on the backs of boys that paid dearly for their success.
That is why I am in favor of organizing. If you don't the corproate boys will NOT treat you with any respect and you will owe your life too the company store.
Now, there is no region that has a strangle hold on hard working and lazy people.
The corporations would strangle you in a heartbeat.
There are some small business' who operate on the same thesis, my wealth on your back.
This is not too oppose venture capitialist/capitialism, just saying somebody got too hold em too the fire.
Blessings     
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline Dee

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Re: Question about union worker attitudes in Detroit?
« Reply #104 on: April 11, 2009, 03:53:10 AM »
That's ME! Soft and sweet! And smart too! ;) ;D :-*
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline nomosendero

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Re: Question about union worker attitudes in Detroit?
« Reply #105 on: April 11, 2009, 03:56:00 AM »
Curtiss and Jdnil

....OKay thanx for your take on the unions and some background on the auto industry. THe way I look at the unions are actually sub-contractor entities or suppliers to the big three...they supply labor just like various other suppliers supply paint, hardware, and components; and actually corporate promoted this bulk labor supply for a long time. In our ssytem each supplier negotiates a best deal or contract for services or parts tendered. In order to have their contracts with corporate made good they have been forced to undo the work 'at-will' doctrine so prevalent in the South.

BTW...Dee is OK,,,,,full of piss and vinegar still,,,,and like a pineapple- - hard and thorny on the outside__soft and sweet on the inside... :)

..TM7


"Unions are actually sub-contractor entities or suppliers to the big three." Wow, this is fun stuff. If that's the case, then the big 3 could just decide to use different sub-contractors like a normal company working witin a "free enterprise"
system could do. Amazing, is there anyone goofy enough to believe that one? This may be one of my favorites!!!  ;D
You will not make peace with the Bluecoats, you are free to go.

Offline Dee

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Re: Question about union worker attitudes in Detroit?
« Reply #106 on: April 11, 2009, 04:03:03 AM »
That is a pretty funny one. TM7 and William/Layton, apparently haven't seen what happens when a corporation doesn't want to dance to the union music. They strike, and call the government puppets to step in. Sounds more like WILLIAM is the one not getting enough oxygen. ::)
I won't say anything about TM7's oxygen intake. He thinks I'm a great guy, and I have to protect my image.
Free Enterprise? Like hell. Not when a union is involved. It is a crime syndicate ran business (the union), backed by the government. The unions have Senators and Congressmen bought and paid for.
Hoffa would vouch for that if we could find him.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline Cabin4

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Re: Question about union worker attitudes in Detroit?
« Reply #107 on: April 11, 2009, 04:14:17 AM »
Yea, really Cabin4. I myself am even gettin tired of readin my own posts to him. Besides, I wasn't kiddin.  ;D

I know you’re not kidding with him. I have to admit I lived in Illinois from 1976 to 1997. The gun laws are terrible and Chicago and the surrounding area is likely the most corrupt place in this country just under DC. Corruption there is just a way of life for the politicians. Remember Morton Grove Illinois or locally known as Moron Grove? They pass a local town ordinance banning hand guns and had forced confiscation. That was back in the 80's. Other towns were trying to implement the same thing but most failed. Recently even moron grove was challenged in court and after 20 years of Nazi rule, the ordinance was deemed unconstitutional.

In Illinois, you cannot even buy ammo without possession of what’s called a state FOID (Firearms Owners ID) card. If you go into a gun shop, they will not even let you handle a gun unless you give them your FOID card. No place in the state can you hunt with center fire cartridge. Its shot gun , slug or rim fire only. When Blago was running for his 1st term, he was pushing a ban on the use of shot guns for hunting! That would have essentially eliminated all big , med & bird in the entire state. Fortunately that never game to completion.

Illinois is likely the most restrictive gun state in the nation. I will never go back if I can help it.
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Offline williamlayton

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Re: Question about union worker attitudes in Detroit?
« Reply #108 on: April 11, 2009, 04:39:40 AM »
What do you boys not understand about bargaining.
Now, can one bargain on his own against a corporation?
Hardly, I think is the answer.
What is wrong, communistic about bargaining? Do not business' bargain with suppliers? They ask for bids!
If one is not strong, many can be. Is this not the basis of a strong union of any type?
Are you saying that the one asking for a bid demand a price? If you are is that not bargaining?
Can the Union not agree too strike if demands are not agreed to--I still think this is bargaining.
In the history of labor Unions did not many die to fight coprorations from using their blood, sweat and manhood for profits without proper compensation?
We celebrate those at the Alamo, Wake Island and other places for giving their life for a cause and you would demean those that brought about this thing called the great American dream.
Sounds like unsound thinking too me.
Blessings 
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline nomosendero

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Re: Question about union worker attitudes in Detroit?
« Reply #109 on: April 11, 2009, 04:48:29 AM »
What do you boys not understand about bargaining.
Now, can one bargain on his own against a corporation?
Hardly, I think is the answer.
What is wrong, communistic about bargaining? Do not business' bargain with suppliers? They ask for bids!
If one is not strong, many can be. Is this not the basis of a strong union of any type?
Are you saying that the one asking for a bid demand a price? If you are is that not bargaining?
Can the Union not agree too strike if demands are not agreed to--I still think this is bargaining.
In the history of labor Unions did not many die to fight coprorations from using their blood, sweat and manhood for profits without proper compensation?
We celebrate those at the Alamo, Wake Island and other places for giving their life for a cause and you would demean those that brought about this thing called the great American dream.
Sounds like unsound thinking too me.
Blessings 

 ;D

"What do you boys not understand about bargaining"    A better question might be, what do you understand about bargaining?
You will not make peace with the Bluecoats, you are free to go.

Offline Cabin4

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Re: Question about union worker attitudes in Detroit?
« Reply #110 on: April 11, 2009, 05:10:27 AM »
Yes bargaining for a modern day big union labor agreement is the same as a company procuring & negotiating a supply contract. ::) Sorry, but that comparison is a bit off base for me. So if the customer (procurement) decides they cannot do business with the supplier due to poor performance or uncompetitive pricing, the customer can cancel the supply agreement under the cancellation for "cause" or "convenience" provision. Of course, GM can do the same thing with the UAW????????

Bad comparison.
Avery Hayden Wallace
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Offline nomosendero

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Re: Question about union worker attitudes in Detroit?
« Reply #111 on: April 11, 2009, 05:20:07 AM »
The best thing to do when a wild comment is made is to move on, but you don't know how.

Sure, they are just like sub-contractors.  ::)  ;D

And I have swamp land in the Grand Tetons for sale.  ::) Like I said, that was one of the most entertaining posts I have ever read, thanks!!  ;)
You will not make peace with the Bluecoats, you are free to go.

Offline Cabin4

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Re: Question about union worker attitudes in Detroit?
« Reply #112 on: April 11, 2009, 05:21:14 AM »
PATCO went on strike which was in direct violation of their contract. Regan had every legal right and moral right to fire the Air Traffic controllers. Putting the nations entire air traffic safty and capability at risk was unacceptable. Thats why their contract had a NO Strike clause. They violated that, they got fired, they lost, too damn bad. There's other Air Traffic Controllers who needed jobs and the void was filled.

The labor agreements are not as easy to get out of as one would think. Just imagine if GM found a way to terminate the agreement with the Union and all the workers walk off the job in a day or two???? These union labor agreements are extremlly strong and they are helping to choke their employers to death. The unions are likly going to get what they deserve, unemployment.
Avery Hayden Wallace
Obama Administration: A corrupt criminal enterprise of bold face liars.
The States formed the Union. The Union did not form the States. States Rights!
GET US OUT OF THE UN. NO ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT!
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California Rifle & Pistol Association
Ron Paul Was Right!
Long Live the King! #3

Offline Cabin4

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Re: Question about union worker attitudes in Detroit?
« Reply #113 on: April 11, 2009, 05:56:48 AM »
C4.....the potential and the legality to rid themselves of the evil commie unions is there...nobody said it would be easy...financial collapse is one avenue among others. Nobody said it would be easy or smooth.  If auto union/manufacturers were finally busted many of these workers would migrate to the South (oh-oh.. :D), likely depressing wages...... The test of non-strike clause in the PATCO was a landmark case if I recall...Reagan had courts on his side, thus began the union busting trend.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

NomoS....I'm starting to believe your 'negativity' is getting the best of your good nature...you do have some good nature, right?.  What do you really really have against people getting together and bargaining for a fair deal?  Or were you a slave owner in a former life..?

..TM7



Reagan did not have the courts on his side. He had a deal, written in contract and the union clearly violated the no strike clause. He terminated thier positions and had every right to do so. The courts reviewed the case and found that the union in fact violated their agreement thus, defaulted on the agreement by failing to come to work. The government simply let the union fire themselves. Regan only made it official and forced the rehire process.

Avery Hayden Wallace
Obama Administration: A corrupt criminal enterprise of bold face liars.
The States formed the Union. The Union did not form the States. States Rights!
GET US OUT OF THE UN. NO ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT!
S.A.S.S/NRA Life Member/2nd Amendment Foundation
CCRKBA/Gun Owners of America
California Rifle & Pistol Association
Ron Paul Was Right!
Long Live the King! #3

Offline jdinil

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Re: Question about union worker attitudes in Detroit?
« Reply #114 on: April 11, 2009, 05:58:52 AM »
Cabin4, Yes, Illinois gun laws are not good. It is solely because of the Chicago/Daley influence. A couple comments about what you said. Centerfire rifles are legal in Illinois, and always have been, except for deer hunting. I use my .223 and .22-250 for coyote hunting, which has a open season 365 days per year. A change made since you left the state is that centerfire handguns are now legal in all the firearms deer seasons, except muzzleloader season. The FOID card thing is especially ridiculous since the instant background system came on line. It should be abolished as being redundant, but it hasn't been. I'm thinking that must be some union's fault.  At least according to Dee, ALL the country's problems are the fault of unions. Good Morning, Dee!  See, I'm learning!

Offline nomosendero

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Re: Question about union worker attitudes in Detroit?
« Reply #115 on: April 11, 2009, 06:10:22 AM »
TM, no negativity about Unions, only reality.
You will not make peace with the Bluecoats, you are free to go.

Offline 45-70.gov

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Re: Question about union worker attitudes in Detroit?
« Reply #116 on: April 11, 2009, 12:17:45 PM »
what  about a picket  line?

should  a union  member be able  to block  access  to  property that does  not belong to them?

if a  union worker  threatened  me or my family or  hindered  my access to my business
he  needs  to be  KILLED


ANY ONE  FEELS  THEY  ARE UNDER PAID 
SHOULD QUIT  THAT  JOB

amasing  how  people resent  some one  that  offers them a job
it  must be  the best job  offer  they  had......or they wouldn't  be there

got  a problem  with  your  job
look in  the mirror........you will  find the problem or  the solution
when drugs are outlawed only out laws will have drugs
DO WHAT EVER IT TAKES TO STOP A DEMOCRAT
OBAMACARE....the biggest tax hike in the  history of mankind
free choice and equality  can't co-exist
AFTER THE LIBYAN COVER-UP... remind any  democrat voters ''they sat and  watched them die''...they  told help to ''stand down''

many statements made here are fiction and are for entertainment purposes only and are in no way to be construed as a description of actual events.
no one is encouraged to do anything dangerous or break any laws.

Offline kinslayer1965

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Re: Question about union worker attitudes in Detroit?
« Reply #117 on: April 12, 2009, 03:52:33 AM »
I have stayed out of the fray because the subject is a rather contentious one to begn with and I didn't want to get all fired up. Then you had to throw in that right to assemble thing. To compare a persons riight to assemble to the unions picket line where they threaten people who want to cross the line to continue working is absurd. I suppose you are going to tell me that they don't threaten people. That would also lead me to ask what is your opinion on secret ballots? Do you support a persons right to privacy when they vote to organize or not?

One of the things I dislike most about the unions the feelings of superiority which it creates in its members.They treat people who arent a part of or supporting their precious union like they are a lower life form. I have worked in the construction industry for 26 years (for the same non union contractor that entire time) and have witnessed first hand the tactics of your beloved union and can tell you beyond any shadow of a doubt that union members have no reason to feel superior.

The unions are a parasite. Unfortunately for the auto makers a parasite so large and embedded it coud kill the host should they choose to have it rmoved.

CR
A man without a stick will get bitten, even by sheep.

Offline gypsyman

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Re: Question about union worker attitudes in Detroit?
« Reply #118 on: April 12, 2009, 04:16:54 AM »
I had posted this awhile back, when there was another topic on union's. But, this seems like a good place to bring it up again. When I was growing up, my parents had a mom/pop beer and wine convience store in East Toledo. The local beer driver's, that delivered to our store and bars, were in the glass workers union. The over the road semi drivers, that brought the beer in from the brewries, were teamsters.
When the local guys went on strike, my dad, even though never belonging to a union, use to drive his pick up to distributers that were 30-50 miles away, just so he wouldn't cross their picket line's. This happened several times over 30 years. Then we found out one time, late '70's, that the union brother's, the teamsters, were crossing the picket lines of the glass workers. So much for ''union brotherhood''. So my dad said the hell with this being a nice guy B.S. He went and picked up beer at the local distributer. About 1 month into the strike, our carryout was fire bombed. Nothing real bad, had to replace an old wooden roll up door.
When the strike was over, nobody would tell us who did it. And of course the police never found out. Well, after that, things changed for the drivers at our store. My mother for years, use to cook roaster pans of pig in the blankets for the drivers, or if it was summer time, we'd have fresh walleye or perch for them to pick on when they stopped.
Never again. Bring your beer in, put it in the back room or cooler, here's your money. See ya later.
In this day and age, if a union worker has any brains, he ought to look at the upper union managment. It's worse than the company officials. I would seriously have a talk with my ''union officials'' that take junkets to Las Vegas, Atlantic City, or where ever, for union business. Wonder how many Monica Lowenski's your union dues are paying for. gypsyman
We keep trying peace, it usually doesn't work!!Remember(12/7/41)(9/11/01) gypsyman

Offline kinslayer1965

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Re: Question about union worker attitudes in Detroit?
« Reply #119 on: April 12, 2009, 05:09:53 AM »
I suppose you are going to tell me the picketers with out fail move out ofthe way and let the workers crossing picket lines go by peacefully? I personally have not witnessed such a picket line. Maybe you are just luckier than I am.

I noticed you did not voice your opinion on allowing workers to secretly vote whether to organize or not. The unions are not in favor of it for one and only one reason. It makes it harder for them to threaten and coerce workers and sway their vote.

Rant? And just what have your post on this subject been may I politely inquire?

I believe a person is allowed to make a living in this country as long as it is by the rules and no laws are broken. When the manner in which you make your living becomes a detrimate to the industry that supports you and indeed seems to be about to bankrupt that very industry causing tax payers to have to support you that is wrong.

CR
A man without a stick will get bitten, even by sheep.