Author Topic: Question about union worker attitudes in Detroit? (Read 7209 times)

Questor · « **on:** March 30, 2009, 03:16:44 PM »

Do you happen to know whether the average union guy working for a Detroit car company is feeling insecure about his job?

Dee · « **Reply #1 on:** March 31, 2009, 02:40:18 AM »

They shouldn't feel insecure. Mine and your tax dollar will gladly continue to OVER PAY them.

gypsyman · « **Reply #2 on:** March 31, 2009, 02:40:50 AM »

Yea, all the ones I know are nervous. Some of them are smart enough to have planned for something like this. Others, much like welfare recipents, and have sucked off the union and company teats, figure that the union/federal govt. will provide for them. Their the ones in for as real shock. gypsyman

torpedoman · « **Reply #3 on:** March 31, 2009, 10:46:50 AM »

Quote from: Dee on March 31, 2009, 02:40:18 AM

They shouldn't feel insecure. Mine and your tax dollar will gladly continue to OVER PAY them.

they earned their retirement just like you earned yours. The reason the government is pushing to get G.M. into bankruptcy is so they can grab thier pension and medical funds and waste it like they did your social security.

Dee · « **Reply #4 on:** March 31, 2009, 11:31:54 AM »

Fine! If not paying for union wages out of my tax dollars causes me to have to stand alone then I say good deal.
I have never gotten a bail out, nor expected one. When I sold my trucking business, no government subsidies. When my housing business failed and I lost it all. No government bail outs there either.
I do not want to subsidize the car industry OR the unions with my hard earned money. Let the union members adapt to changing economic hardships, just as I had to do. I am personally tired of the whinning. I do not owe them any portion of any of my earnings. They took a job and it has now reached a possible end, just like mine, and millions of others have. ADJUST!

victorcharlie · « **Reply #5 on:** March 31, 2009, 01:04:51 PM »

Quote from: torpedoman on March 31, 2009, 10:46:50 AM

[ The reason the government is pushing to get G.M. into bankruptcy is so they can grab thier pension and medical funds and waste it like they did your social security.

Yep, that's exactly what they're doing, the same thing the airlines did.

Dee · « **Reply #6 on:** March 31, 2009, 01:21:14 PM »

Quote from: TM7 on March 31, 2009, 01:07:57 PM

Quote from: Dee on March 31, 2009, 11:31:54 AM
Fine! If not paying for union wages out of my tax dollars causes me to have to stand alone then I say good deal.
I have never gotten a bail out, nor expected one. When I sold my trucking business, no government subsidies. When my housing business failed and I lost it all. No government bail outs there either.
I do not want to subsidize the car industry OR the unions with my hard earned money. Let the union members adapt to changing economic hardships, just as I had to do. I am personally tired of the whinning. I do not owe them any portion of any of my earnings. They took a job and it has now reached a possible end, just like mine, and millions of others have. ADJUST!
.
Well fine then.....I'm sick and tired of paying taxes for over bloated government employee pensions and benefits and increases..many gotten from disabilities or retirements as young as 44 in my state. I'm also tired of no negotiation teacher-fireman-police wage increases thru their unions. All unions for government or tax payed employees should be outlawed yesterday. I also think service in the military should be at going rate without any special for-life comissary,medical, or any other special concessions seeing as it is all service for love of country....all of this should be on par with the private sector, auto workers, and be re-negotiable at any time. Right..?

...TM7

So your comparing MILITARY SERVICE with UNION AUTO WORKER? Hmmmmm. Now that's interesting, but not unexpected.

Dee · « **Reply #7 on:** March 31, 2009, 01:33:03 PM »

I personally don't give a damn what anyone does for their lively hood, but if it goes south do you think I should help pay for it?
The duties of a soldier are damn site different than putting lug nuts on a chevrolet in an air conditioned building.

burntmuch · « **Reply #8 on:** March 31, 2009, 01:44:03 PM »

Dont mean to interupt your pissin match boys, The union workers in detroit & Flint MI are scared just like the rest of the country. I used to be a fireman in Flint MI, Laid off 7 yrs ago due to GM downsizing, Now Im a Union fireman in a subburb of detroit. Im against bailouts, believe me, but when GM goes belly up. This whole state is gonna be in a world of hurt. Ive already seen suicides increase in the area cause of GM . These auto workers dont know what to do, just like the rest of the country. Im not sure there is a right answer. We,ll see Oh yeah TM7 any raise Ive ever got has been fought for & usually doesnt keep up with inflation, & I ll be able to retire at 58

Dee · « **Reply #9 on:** March 31, 2009, 02:36:49 PM »

Quote from: TM7 on March 31, 2009, 02:04:17 PM

burntmuch........yeah, I have no problem understanding what you're saying at all. I have nothing against unions at all. My rant on the government unions is in response to Dee's comments as he probably was in a union when he was and LEO. How somebody can be in a brotherhood of a union sanctioned by government and then bad mouth a union brotherhood in the private sector is beyond me. Frankly, I believe the private sector is what this country is primarily all about and which pays the bills and the private sector should not be servile to a class of manadarin governement legalist; and a special class of government employees separated and above the private sector and regular citizen should never be allowed (a common topic here on GB's but in libber versus Conservtive terms)...which, btw, is what the military is trying to create today, a special class...which is a very dangerous thing to create out of a military.

..TM7

Well, TM7 you know what they say when you ASSUME. No I wasn't in a union when I was a police officer. Didn't want to be in a union, and would not be in a union. PERIOD!
I hate to hear and see the auto industry woes, but it IS A BUSINESS, and if it cannot survive, then it should not be proped up by tax payer dollars. About the only people save a few that disagree with that, is the auto worker. I think I pretty much speak ALONG WITH most of America.
Let'em go down, and somebody will come up with a better, and more workable idea. I look at BAILOUTS as assisting the failed, and the auto industry is right there with the banks and AIG. They are no different than folks like myself. The tax payer owes me nothing, in the way of a bail out, and I have had to start completely over, at age 60. If I can do it WITHOUT YOUR TAX DOLLAR, you should be able to do it WITHOUT MY TAX DOLLAR.
And by the way burntmuch, I was posting, not pissin. If TM and I were pissin then so were you. Err?

burntmuch · « **Reply #10 on:** March 31, 2009, 02:40:13 PM »

And by the way burntmuch, I was posting, not pissin. If TM and I were pissin then so were you. Err?

Fair enough

45-70.gov · « **Reply #11 on:** March 31, 2009, 02:47:16 PM »

i was in the carpenter union for 12 years

i quit them because they support DEMOCRATS communism and gun control

they wer an envious bunch of us against them morons

making good money and POOR

torpedoman · « **Reply #12 on:** March 31, 2009, 03:10:47 PM »

.
Well fine then.....I'm sick and tired of paying taxes for over bloated government employee pensions and benefits and increases..many gotten from disabilities or retirements as young as 44 in my state. I'm also tired of no negotiation teacher-fireman-police wage increases thru their unions. All unions for government or tax payed employees should be outlawed yesterday. I also think service in the military should be at going rate without any special for-life comissary,medical, or any other special concessions seeing as it is all service for love of country....all of this should be on par with the private sector, auto workers, and be re-negotiable at any time. Right..?

...TM7
[/quote] i'm retired military when i started out in the service i figgured out my pay it was 27 cents an hour this was in 1970 for most of my career the military was woefully underpaid. I recall the nixon speech telling us we were on the front lines in the fight against inflation and would not be getting a cost of living raise (just before he and the congress got theirs) as for that free medical care i was promised i got a letter saying "if you dont die before the end of the month we lied to you" it was'nt those words but that is what it said and then they started deducting medical from my retirement and for some reason evry time i get a cost of living raise the medical insurance goes up only a little more than the raise added.Thought you should know what a great deal military service is and byn the way my wifes survivor pension is off set (read- Reduced)by my social security alltho i paid for both of them.Don't be critizing the military system as being generous unless you have some experience in the area. I don't know what you do or did but do you have enough shrapnel in your body that you can't go thru the airport metal detector?

Dee · « **Reply #13 on:** March 31, 2009, 03:11:59 PM »

Well 45-70.gov, I don't particularly care if one wants to join a union, just don't expect me to pay for it. That's my only requirement. However, the government seems hell-bent on making me, but I do it under protest, and resent the hell out of it.

Dee · « **Reply #14 on:** March 31, 2009, 03:17:11 PM »

torpedoman, there are many ways to serve your country, and I feel I served mine for my 20 years in LE, but I also feel that way about firemen.
Like your service. Both professions are quite a bit more dangerous than running an impac wrench on an assembly line.
I respect the military, police, and firemen, and without all three types laying it all on the line DAILEY, there wouldn't be an America, much less a union. The auto worker needs to suck it up, and go on with their lives. We are all feeling the crunch.JMO

Oldshooter · « **Reply #15 on:** March 31, 2009, 03:46:31 PM »

TM7 do you role a pair of dice when you wake up to see what side you are gonna argue on?

The other day you did not think that aig guys should get their bonus even though it was in the contract that they signed and the government ok'd

Now you think the auto unions deserve their money because of a union contract. By the way the government has had to bail them out also. and guess what, they get paid by the hour the aig guys get their money from bonuses, but that is Different, Ya think?

nomosendero · « **Reply #16 on:** April 01, 2009, 01:53:29 AM »

Quote from: Dee on March 31, 2009, 01:21:14 PM

Quote from: TM7 on March 31, 2009, 01:07:57 PM
Quote from: Dee on March 31, 2009, 11:31:54 AM
Fine! If not paying for union wages out of my tax dollars causes me to have to stand alone then I say good deal.
I have never gotten a bail out, nor expected one. When I sold my trucking business, no government subsidies. When my housing business failed and I lost it all. No government bail outs there either.
I do not want to subsidize the car industry OR the unions with my hard earned money. Let the union members adapt to changing economic hardships, just as I had to do. I am personally tired of the whinning. I do not owe them any portion of any of my earnings. They took a job and it has now reached a possible end, just like mine, and millions of others have. ADJUST!
.
Well fine then.....I'm sick and tired of paying taxes for over bloated government employee pensions and benefits and increases..many gotten from disabilities or retirements as young as 44 in my state. I'm also tired of no negotiation teacher-fireman-police wage increases thru their unions. All unions for government or tax payed employees should be outlawed yesterday. I also think service in the military should be at going rate without any special for-life comissary,medical, or any other special concessions seeing as it is all service for love of country....all of this should be on par with the private sector, auto workers, and be re-negotiable at any time. Right..?

...TM7

So your comparing MILITARY SERVICE with UNION AUTO WORKER? Hmmmmm. Now that's interesting, but not unexpected.

WOW!!!

beerbelly · « **Reply #17 on:** April 01, 2009, 02:09:49 AM »

When GM closes the five or six plants they jut said they were closing. There is going to be a lot of Obama voting union workers out of work. I wonder how they are going to like thier Obama plan then.
Beerbelly

Dee · « **Reply #18 on:** April 01, 2009, 02:24:17 AM »

Ya know what beerbelly? I don't know how their gonna like Obama, but I suspect we'll hear about it. While everyone is worrying about the poor auto workers and their pensions and benefits, folks like the dairy farmer are going bankrupt because of the high fuel prices a few months ago. Oh! By the way! Their NOT UNION!
How does that affect anyone? Well, folks like me are getting LESS THAN, a load a week from the dairy's. Ya see? I haul milk for a living. So when they take my taxes out of my NOW VERY SMALL CHECK, the auto workers are clamoring to get it.
Should I resent that? Maybe not in some folks opinion, but I damn sure do resent it. The auto worker is no more special to me than any other profession. Take these big farmers that vote DEMOCRAT because, as they have told me many times: The Democrats just treat us (the farmer) better than the Republicans. Yea! BIGGER SUBSIDIES! I have farmer friends that sit in the coffee shop and COMPLAIN about grain prices, and then get up and go out and get into their $60,000.00 "FARM TRUCK" with all the options and leather interior. On their days off they go to their lake home, or sit beside their pool, wondering I suppose, whom will be the next DEMOCRAT they will vote for.
Everyone has their hand out except folks like me. MY solution is: Get off your ass, and get a different job! No jobs where you live? MOVE! ADAPT! ADJUST! Just like I had to do at almost 60 years of age.
Damn, I make myself mad sometimes.

Dee · « **Reply #19 on:** April 01, 2009, 03:08:23 AM »

TM7, "IF" I understand this last post of yours correctly and in proper context, I do not disagree with you in most all of your points. Especially the government smoke screen, and take over scheme.
We are in for a hard time because of the big money mentality not only in banking and Wall St., but the Republican and Democrat did not take to heart the lessons learned in PRE-HITLER Germany on printing money, or the Roosevelt era New Deal programs that RETARDED our exit of the LAST DEPRESSION.

Dee · « **Reply #20 on:** April 01, 2009, 03:58:47 AM »

Well actually I am very aware of the Fed ownership being European based. The Rothschilds, and Rockefeller's are deeply involved. In 1913 when all was turned over to the Federal Reserve things began to spiral. They decide OUR INTEREST Rates, just as the Federal government THRU THE FEDERAL RESERVE, control the American "FARMER", by dictating WHAT THEY MAY PLANT, HOW MUCH THEY MAY PLANT, AND WHEN THEY CAN PLANT IT.
This way the Federal Reserve THRU OUR GOVERNMENT, can control the prices on such things a wheat and corn, and other commodities.
The SEED companies also have a hand in this, and in many cases it is AGAINST THE LAW, for farmers to SAVE SEED, as it would STOP THE CONTROL of themselves by the government. Thus the ENTICEMENTS of "FARM SUBSIDIES" to the farmer to ENCOURAGE GOVERNMENT CONTROL, and the farmer falls to the greed inspired subsidies.
Many here would not believe that but, it takes very little work, and a little question asking to learn this.
Many STILL THINK that the Federal Reserve Bank is part of the government, but is in fact, as you say, European owned, and all ways has been.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #21 on:** April 01, 2009, 05:10:56 AM »

not to detract from military or law enforcement

but construction workers [me] are the 3rd most danderouse profession

i have broken my back from a scaffold colapse
cut my leg half off [no exageration] and had only 3 fingers working on left hand [am left handed]

left thumb doesn't work right but most every thing else recovered [i am shorter now]

the small settlements i got to release them from further liability were well invested
if these cry babied had invested the BIG bucks they made in the past
they could just start retirement early with a smile
like i did

Oldshooter · « **Reply #22 on:** April 01, 2009, 05:54:29 AM »

Quote from: TM7 on April 01, 2009, 02:52:30 AM

Quote from: Oldshooter on March 31, 2009, 03:46:31 PM
TM7 do you role a pair of dice when you wake up to see what side you are gonna argue on?

The other day you did not think that aig guys should get their bonus even though it was in the contract that they signed and the government ok'd

Now you think the auto unions deserve their money because of a union contract. By the way the government has had to bail them out also. and guess what, they get paid by the hour the aig guys get their money from bonuses, but that is Different, Ya think?
.
Do you wake up in the morning saying, "let's see...who can I be a contrarian with today?"

Where did I say auto workers should get their money because of a contract...? Where is the verbiage of the AIG bonuses posted, because I said their bonuses depends on such verbiage.?

About GM, I said that because the present government, continuing along the thought continum of the Bush regime only with more specifics than just a giveaway of monies, has apparently said the auto industry is too important to let slide for defense reasons, world economic reasons, american psyche reasons, or whatever reasons ...so the policy is to rescue it; AND so auto unions want a fair shake and should get a fair shake at the same time. Not saying the unions don't need a shake up wakeup call, too. I'm sure there are alot of 'agents' in unions that need kicking out.

BTW, a business-labor principle to get more out of your labor is to impower them to take some 'ownership' of their jobs thus inspiring them to work well and motivating them to see the company prosper. This is often done by actually creating some actual ownership of the company in many instances.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dee...I have no problem understanding your posts # 14. But they're (the gov) not going in that direction right now..they are trying to create a new bubble or reinflate the old one. BTW..Around here every gov. employee is in a union.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

torpedeoman....if the miltary career was so bad why did you stay in? Regardless of pay there are other benefits to be had in a gov-military carreer in a material sense. For you it might have been a spiritual sense of serving country. Whatever the material and spiritual rewards were you stayed in. Don't look back and piss and moan about it, but count your blessings. Had you been in the private sector things would have been more of a gamble (as Dee can attest), and likely you would be on your umpteemth job, or worse out of work at or near mid to late 50's wondering what to do next (as many here can attest). I've spent my whole working career in the private sector, and I can tell you,, us in the private sector don't want bloated corrupt government telling us what to do, nor do we want to support some class of sell-serving 'mandarins' placing themselves above us. The reason for the USA is not the government and its support apparatti...it is the private enterprise sector that does things, and we don't want to be support slaves for the government.
I find it hilarious that many people that criticize the government, knock it's policies, crap on one whole side of the bicameral system are ex-government or current government employees; and quick to advise what us citizens in the private sector should do or think about the government. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you.!

..TM7

Quote

In any case, unions have legal rights and standing, and so do their contracts

Is it me or is this what you said?

Quote

Do you wake up in the morning saying, "let's see...who can I be a contrarian with today?"

Give me a break you actually typed this about someone else?

I looked up the word "contrarian" it said; "SEE TM7" and had a little picture of you there

Oldshooter · « **Reply #23 on:** April 01, 2009, 07:03:27 AM »

Quote

uphold phantom contracts

You sir are full of it!

You are the only one in the world right now that thinks those were "phantom contracts"

You really need to lay off the hallucinogens !

Those Phantom contracts had everyone that could read or hear in an uproar last week!

The fact that you and you alone dont believe they exist is not an arguement !

I guess thats why Chris Dodd lied about them on national Tv. They dont really exist ! Pathetic

And why your buddies in the Senate passed a law to get the money back in taxes, they cudda just said "hey those are phantom contracts" so just give the money back

jimster · « **Reply #24 on:** April 01, 2009, 09:09:56 AM »

Yes the union workers are afraid. For good reason. We are not bnuying cars, nor will we until government gets off our backs. They also know if they are forced to make lots of electric cars we won't buy them either...basically, nobody is going to buy anything much, so yes, the smart ones are afraid.
But it's not my deal...as bogus as that may sound...it's true. What Dee said....ADJUST...or die.

There is a war going on between socalists and conservatives right now....and we conservatives are winning it. How? I'll explain it like I explained to a lefty at work. Our State is broke...and we conservatives will keep it that way until we decide we get what we want...less spending and less taxes. We will shut down, not pay anything we don't have to, and tie our money up in non taxable accounts. We will not hire...or move away, or a little of both. we will do the opposite of what they want. I found out I don't even have to pay taxes right away...I can make little itty bitty payments. We will sit back and keep the state and the feds broke, with their help of spending...it will all crash soon enough. The ignorant people that voted them in will turn on the only people left to turn on. All we conservatives have to do is sit back and watch the show...it's happening right now. Capitialism is the only money there is, socalism NEEDS it....and it won't be there because we will make sure it isn't there.

We already won....they just have not reported it yet....but check out what some banks are doing now...trying to give the money back. I pulled all my money out of a bank that took gov. funds and went to one that didn't....and that is catching on big time. Millions of Americans are fighting back behind the scenes with things like this...millions of us.

I told this guy at work that we are responsible for the broke state...and it will continue until we decide different. What could he say...that Dems did it?
I told him all they need to do is keep spending what is not there. We just wait.

All workers should be a little scared right now...but in the end...the lefties will go broke until we decide to move our money. That is what will win. Our money is what they want...we just hang on to it...a little longer. They have none...nor can they generate it.

Oldshooter · « **Reply #25 on:** April 01, 2009, 09:35:44 AM »

jimster, I agree with the premise but the problem is they are gonna print more money they are doing it now!

But that is just what My family is doing, we dropped AIG, our auto ins, we do business with a local bank and credit union, and we ain't gonna buy no new automobiles and definitely no GM's. And our governor ain't taking stimulus money. and I heard today that the legislators cant override the governors to take it!

We all have to do our part and participate in the voter revolution IT does not have anything to do with partys it is the American people taking back their country!

jimster · « **Reply #26 on:** April 01, 2009, 09:50:48 AM »

yes sir Oldshooter....voter revolution for sure. And let them print money...that will blow up in their faces as well. You will also notice I did not mention any parties either...this is an American thing....not a party thing. We can be a pretty irritating bunch behind the scenes Oldshooter....like a big burr under their saddles. Our governor said the other day...the amount of funds (taxes) that they are not getting is "breathtaking" and piling up each day...I just smiled...I'm part of that.

Michigan is full of people like me...the only income they have been getting is CCW permits, and that is adding up to millions. They will think twice before they do away with that if that is their only income...

burntmuch · « **Reply #27 on:** April 01, 2009, 01:50:59 PM »

jimster Im hoping that works. cause you,re right. Alot of people in Michigan just holeing up right now. Myself included. This year I heated my house with corn. Grown locally. Small step, but thats about $3000 that didnt get spent on fuel oil. Money went into the farmers pocket

Cabin4 · « **Reply #28 on:** April 01, 2009, 02:16:44 PM »

Get rid of the unions.Help save America

jdinil · « **Reply #29 on:** April 01, 2009, 03:00:24 PM »

Dee, If it wasn't for the contributions of the Big 3 and sacrifices of their employees during WW2, you would be speaking German today. You would not have had a Law Enforcement career of any kind. You would not have been qualified for Hitler's SS. How many people have been employed, directly and indirectly over the last 100 years by the US automakers? How soon they forget! Quite frankly, your silly rants are getting a bit old.