Author Topic: Question about union worker attitudes in Detroit?  (Read 7182 times)

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Offline 45-70.gov

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Re: Question about union worker attitudes in Detroit?
« Reply #120 on: April 12, 2009, 05:12:11 AM »
45-70.....

.....you saying people don't have the right to assemble...is that right?

..TM7

people  have  a right  to assemble  ....where  did i say different ?

but  workers seem to think  they  own  the proberty they  work  on
they  are tresspassers  once  told to leave and  laws  need to be enforced
and  if law enforcement won't arrest and remove  them  then we  have anarchy
and  its  time to open  fire........any  tresspassers  kill  deserved  it

protesting  on  public  land  is  OK
deTaining  my on  public  land  is  KIDDNAPPING........expect  to  DIE
when drugs are outlawed only out laws will have drugs
DO WHAT EVER IT TAKES TO STOP A DEMOCRAT
OBAMACARE....the biggest tax hike in the  history of mankind
free choice and equality  can't co-exist
AFTER THE LIBYAN COVER-UP... remind any  democrat voters ''they sat and  watched them die''...they  told help to ''stand down''

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Offline GRIMJIM

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Re: Question about union worker attitudes in Detroit?
« Reply #121 on: April 12, 2009, 06:09:46 AM »
I suppose you are going to tell me the picketers with out fail move out ofthe way and let the workers crossing picket lines go by peacefully? I personally have not witnessed such a picket line. Maybe you are just luckier than I am.

CR

I have been in such a picket line myself. You are not allowed to threaten or physically detain anyone. I don't know where you got that, maybe from movies. Most delivery companies and waste haulers honored our picket line. Most people did not want to cross it. We even had one member of management that still held a card and the union allowed him in to do administrative work.

The unions and management agree on their contract. That means both parties give their word to abide by that contract. When they start violating the agreement you have the right (obligation) to stand up for yourself. Try that in a non-union company  and see where you end up. I've been there as well.


45-70. You would actually want to shoot people for protesting unfair treatment? All pickets are on public property, sidewalks, streets in front of the businesses. When have you ever been held by force from going into a business? That is illegal and not allowed.

All of the rumors about unions are spread by people that are uninformed, not in them or people that have had a bad experience and feel the union let them down. A lot of people that talk junk about them would jump at the chance to join one. How could you not want decent wages, great insurance (family coverage paid by the employer, not you) and a pension (not great but better than nothing).

If companies would pay decent wages with good insurance there would be no need for unions, but you know as well as I do companies that actually care about their workers are few and far between. All they care about is their bottom line whether it puts you and your family out on the streets or not.

I have been a custom cabinetmaker for 25 years. High end custom work. I've been in the union for 15 of those. What kind of pay do you think that kind of experience deserves? $60,000, $70,000, Hardly. If I do ungodly amounts of overtime I might make that kind of money but my base pay is way below that and they actually pay me $3.00 over scale because of my experience. I started doing this when I was 19 for minimum wage, worked hard and was dependable to get where I am. Just like in the non-union shops.

They say union workers are lazy. Have you never worked with a lazy person before? It's not just in the unions. You work the way you want to work and when things get slow the lazy ones are the first to go. Just like in the non-union shops. I've worked 32 hour shifts, 12 hours a day 7 days a week for months on end, weeklong strings of 16-18 hour days. One shop I worked 10-12 hours a day 6 and sometimes 7 days a week for a year and a half.

I'm sorry for the rant but all the union bashing I read on this site gets my blood boiling. It always amazes me that it's the union workers' fault and not the people that actually run the company, management, with their multi million dollar contracts and golden balloon retirement packages. They get more money for leaving a company than when they work. I'd be more than happy to run a company into the ground for 5 million dollars.

Heck, I'll do it for 1Million.
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Offline kinslayer1965

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Re: Question about union worker attitudes in Detroit?
« Reply #122 on: April 12, 2009, 07:24:39 AM »
Well I have seen the other end of the equation where threats are made and scare tactics are used. The company I work for started out as a union company, and when it went non-union there were threats of violence and actual violence. Our employees cars were damaged at job site parking lots and sometimes even at there homes. These are documented cases not only in my "imagination" as you would have it but in the records of the sherrifs department that came to the jobsite to make sure our employees werent harrassed on the way to their vehicle.

One of the long time union members who decided to stay with our company literally had death threats. He literally went to the sherrifs department and got a special issue permit to carry a concealled weapon for protection. this was before CCPs were allowed generally.

I went to work for this company when it was changing over to non-union. It was not a pleasant time.

I don't like to paint with a broad brush and yes I know there are unions and union members who depore the type of behavior described. But to think it does not exist is  a bit close minded.

CR
A man without a stick will get bitten, even by sheep.

Offline kinslayer1965

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Re: Question about union worker attitudes in Detroit?
« Reply #123 on: April 12, 2009, 07:29:14 AM »
I was just wondering grimjim since tm7 would not answer my question on the secret ballot if you would? Do you support a persons right to have a private vote to organize or not?

A simple yes or no will work.

CR
A man without a stick will get bitten, even by sheep.

Offline kinslayer1965

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Re: Question about union worker attitudes in Detroit?
« Reply #124 on: April 12, 2009, 07:42:11 AM »
Oh and by the way when we find someone to be lazy we get rid of them immediately. We dont have to wait for a slow down. I am guessing grimjim that you are a damn fine cabinet maker and you should be making $3.00 over standard because of your ability not experience. We operate a "Merit Shop" where you are paid according to your abilities not because you ave been doing it 30 years. We pay above "Union Scale", give our employees health insurance and offer them the opportunity to grow with the company. We have 401K with a company match, profit sharing, we pay for any adult aducation that our employees want to take part in and we even pay for the books.

We also provide the knowledge that non of our employees will ever work next to a person producing half as much as themselves but make the same wage because they have the same number of years with the company.

CR
A man without a stick will get bitten, even by sheep.

Offline billy_56081

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Re: Question about union worker attitudes in Detroit?
« Reply #125 on: April 12, 2009, 08:23:20 AM »
I am a contractor who goes around to many different places of work, both Union and non union. I have been threatened first hand by union goons. Bad mistake, my brother is the sheriff and I pressed charges, now they have a felony terroristic threats conviction on their records. What was even funnier is they were fired as they could not work at this place with a felony on thier record.

I have seen NOTHING good about union plants where I have worked. Unions promote the lazy, stupid and incompetent, while the hard worker is punsihed and held back by the union.
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline GRIMJIM

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Re: Question about union worker attitudes in Detroit?
« Reply #126 on: April 12, 2009, 08:28:50 AM »
Well I have seen the other end of the equation where threats are made and scare tactics are used. The company I work for started out as a union company, and when it went non-union there were threats of violence and actual violence. Our employees cars were damaged at job site parking lots and sometimes even at there homes. These are documented cases not only in my "imagination" as you would have it but in the records of the sherrifs department that came to the jobsite to make sure our employees werent harrassed on the way to their vehicle.

One of the long time union members who decided to stay with our company literally had death threats. He literally went to the sherrifs department and got a special issue permit to carry a concealled weapon for protection. this was before CCPs were allowed generally.

I went to work for this company when it was changing over to non-union. It was not a pleasant time.

I don't like to paint with a broad brush and yes I know there are unions and union members who depore the type of behavior described. But to think it does not exist is  a bit close minded.
CR




I don't deny any of it. I can only speak from my experiences. It may have been this way in the past but the unions are not as powerful as they used to be and this kind of strongarming doesn't happen around here, believe it or not.

I was just wondering grimjim since tm7 would not answer my question on the secret ballot if you would? Do you support a persons right to have a private vote to organize or not?

A simple yes or no will work.

CR

I have no problem either way. The person should vote as his convictions dictate. He should do what he feels is best for himself and his family and not care what others think.

Oh and by the way when we find someone to be lazy we get rid of them immediately. We dont have to wait for a slow down. I am guessing grimjim that you are a damn fine cabinet maker and you should be making $3.00 over standard because of your ability not experience. We operate a "Merit Shop" where you are paid according to your abilities not because you ave been doing it 30 years. We pay above "Union Scale", give our employees health insurance and offer them the opportunity to grow with the company. We have 401K with a company match, profit sharing, we pay for any adult aducation that our employees want to take part in and we even pay for the books.

We also provide the knowledge that non of our employees will ever work next to a person producing half as much as themselves but make the same wage because they have the same number of years with the company.

CR

I'll be honest, that bothered me at one time as well but....

The industry I'm involved in is kind of diffferent. When a big trade show is coming up we get very busy. Our core group of guys are good builders/workers. When we get too busy for us to keep up we call the hall and they send us guys to help. Now most, not all, of the good guys have a home already, so the guys they have to send out are guys that float from one shop to another when they get busy. This is not to say they are all no good, some are some are not. When we need more people we need them now, not in two weeks after putting out an ad and triaging applicants, and it very well may be for only a week or two. These are used as basically manpower. The skilled work is still done by the core guys.

Looking at it realistically they do not make the same amount of money that I do. The hourly rate might be the same but they don't work in one place long enough to acrue vacation time (ours does not come from the union but from the employer) and some of them don't even get in enough hours in a quarter to qualify for their benefits. So I'm way ahead of them.

My main point of my rant was, people are people regardless of whether or not they belong to a union. There are actually some on here that don't bring up their union affiliation because of the anti-union attitudes of a lot of people here.

The union has done well for me and my family and I don't regret joining it for a second. You are of course welcome to your opinion.

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Offline Cabin4

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Re: Question about union worker attitudes in Detroit?
« Reply #127 on: April 12, 2009, 03:47:24 PM »
Crush the big unions. Help save our country.
Avery Hayden Wallace
Obama Administration: A corrupt criminal enterprise of bold face liars.
The States formed the Union. The Union did not form the States. States Rights!
GET US OUT OF THE UN. NO ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT!
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Offline 45-70.gov

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Re: Question about union worker attitudes in Detroit?
« Reply #128 on: April 12, 2009, 04:23:11 PM »
i  was in the carpenters union  for  12  years

they  support democrats  so i quit  them

closed out my retirement  account......since  it might  help  a democrat

i  went on  my first job as a forman.....no apprentice ship

some of  you act  like  you are  TOO  stupid  to  hold a job  without  somebody to back  you up

and  that  you can't  earn a living  with out a job

i  have been simi-retired  since  i was  51  and left  the union  over them supporting bill klinton

you  don't  need  that  liberal  scum  of  a union
--------------------------------------------------------------------

some one  said;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

45-70. You would actually want to shoot people for protesting unfair treatment? All pickets are on public property, sidewalks, streets in front of the businesses. When have you ever been held by force from going into a business? That is illegal and not allowed.

--------------------------------------
no  i said  i would  kill any  one  who  kiddnapped/detained me

no i have not been held by force.....or  some one may have  died
last  person to swing at  me at  work  got  a magic marker in the throat  and taken to jail



when drugs are outlawed only out laws will have drugs
DO WHAT EVER IT TAKES TO STOP A DEMOCRAT
OBAMACARE....the biggest tax hike in the  history of mankind
free choice and equality  can't co-exist
AFTER THE LIBYAN COVER-UP... remind any  democrat voters ''they sat and  watched them die''...they  told help to ''stand down''

many statements made here are fiction and are for entertainment purposes only and are in no way to be construed as a description of actual events.
no one is encouraged to do anything dangerous or break any laws.

Offline kinslayer1965

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Re: Question about union worker attitudes in Detroit?
« Reply #129 on: April 12, 2009, 04:43:37 PM »
Grimjim,

I understand your point. As I stated I am sure there are unions and union workers who deplore the stated actions as you yourself do. I can't help but feel strongly about what happened with the company I work for. The unions started out as a with a noble cause and it in has in some cases strayed from that cause. Not all as you yourself are an example. I also know others who have had a good relationship with the unions and their employers have also enjoyed a good relationship with the union.

It would bother me a great deal to work next someone who did not produce as much yet got paid just as much as I. I also still harbor deep concern over the secret ballot ammendment which would take away a persons right to a private vote.

Also Grimjim if my post seemed to be a personal attack I apologize it was not meant to be such. That is why I hesitated to get involved with this topic.
A man without a stick will get bitten, even by sheep.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Question about union worker attitudes in Detroit?
« Reply #130 on: April 13, 2009, 02:40:29 AM »
Lets face it there is good and bad in both union and nonunion shops . When you look at unions what is often over looked is the fact that union leadership much like govt. should have limits placed on them so they can't get rich or gain to much power .
In the auto industry the cost of a "unit" to the end user had little to do with what it cost to build it but more with what the market could pay. This was good for years but the bubble burst . The owners would give in to unions as the cost was passed along and they them selves were making more than was reasonable . The entire industry was built on inflated pricing ( one only need look at the number of invoices per vehicle with different pricing ) . The auto industry got greedy as have the housing industry .
Brown and Root - $35000 a year ? they were making that here in the 70's and that was on par with the union .
Now i know ya'll aren't going to say it is better to allow unions to hold the workers money instead of letting them invest it for their retirement , are you ?
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline gypsyman

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Re: Question about union worker attitudes in Detroit?
« Reply #131 on: April 13, 2009, 03:19:11 AM »
Shootall, your right in the price had little to do with how much it cost to produce the automoble. Doing alot of gun shows around the Detroit area in the last 20+ years, I have a chance to talk with many different people in the auto industry. Many years ago, a GM person I was talking with, said the cost difference between their cheapest car, which was in the Chevy line, and the most expensive Cadilac, was less than $2000. That was labor and supplies/parts. Your paying for the name. You have to realize, profit margin to the company was much greater with the Caddy. gypsyman
We keep trying peace, it usually doesn't work!!Remember(12/7/41)(9/11/01) gypsyman

Offline Dee

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Re: Question about union worker attitudes in Detroit?
« Reply #132 on: April 13, 2009, 03:24:27 AM »
The so called big three in past years CONCEDED to the union demands to avoid strikes, and plant shut downs because of strikes, and passed the increases demanded by the unions on to the car buyer. The automobiles they now produce are inflated price wise, to the point that this is no longer possible (to further increase prices), thus the union BENEFITS has OUT GROWN the actual value of the product they produce, and the management has allowed themselves to be painted into a corner, with the governments intervention and help. Along with the unions heavy handed policies of NEGOCIATING ::), and fuel mileage, and emissions restrictions, the auto companies are financially broke to the task.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Question about union worker attitudes in Detroit?
« Reply #133 on: April 13, 2009, 04:11:53 AM »
yep time to pay the piper !
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline Cabin4

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Re: Question about union worker attitudes in Detroit?
« Reply #134 on: April 13, 2009, 05:13:06 AM »
If people's inclinations and rights to assemble together in all the many forms are banished then their will be essentially only one supreme force left in this country..............


..TM7

Since when do unions secure anyones "right" to assemble?
Avery Hayden Wallace
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The States formed the Union. The Union did not form the States. States Rights!
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Offline GRIMJIM

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Re: Question about union worker attitudes in Detroit?
« Reply #135 on: April 13, 2009, 06:00:01 AM »
I didn't take it as personal at all. Everyones experiences leads them to where they are and everyone does not go in the same direction.

I am not naive enough to believe everything the union tells me. They are a self sustaining autocracy and are looking at preserving and expanding the union by signing up members. The democrat thing bothers me also.

I'm sure I could find work without the union and probably make just as much money. There is no way the health coverage would be as good, and how's everyones' 401k doing? I would also have to pay for family coverage and probably part of my coverage. Now the employer pays for both.

I joined because in the job market in the Chicagoland area, union shops usually pay better and definately have better benefits. I made that decision based on what I thought was best for me and mine.

Not everyone will come to the same conclusion.

I did't mean to hijack this thread into a pro/anti union debate, and I know nothing about the autoworkers unions so maybe someone can get this back on topic.
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Question about union worker attitudes in Detroit?
« Reply #136 on: April 13, 2009, 06:46:12 AM »
they have the right assy. they should also have the right to lose like the rest of us not cost the rest of us thru. their BS bail out !
Just because a business is big shouldn't make it not have to be competive .
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline Cabin4

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Re: Question about union worker attitudes in Detroit?
« Reply #137 on: April 13, 2009, 07:42:04 AM »
If people's inclinations and rights to assemble together in all the many forms are banished then their will be essentially only one supreme force left in this country..............


..TM7

Since when do unions secure anyones "right" to assemble?
.
By doing it..!

..TM7

I don't know what you mean TM7. Unions do not secure anyones "right". They just provide a mouth peice for a mass of people. Everyone has a "right" to assemble. Unions are not afforded some special privilages under our constitution, people are. If a group of people want to protest or assemble in an organized manner, they can do that without a Union. happens all the time all over the country.

Paying union dues does not and should not afford anyone special privilages in this area.
Avery Hayden Wallace
Obama Administration: A corrupt criminal enterprise of bold face liars.
The States formed the Union. The Union did not form the States. States Rights!
GET US OUT OF THE UN. NO ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT!
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Question about union worker attitudes in Detroit?
« Reply #138 on: April 13, 2009, 07:44:55 AM »
Cabin 4 now that the Govt. is running GM maybe TM7 has a point ?
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline Cabin4

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Re: Question about union worker attitudes in Detroit?
« Reply #139 on: April 13, 2009, 07:53:12 AM »
As unfair and undemocratic as it is, I agree that politicians beholden to the unions are giving unions workers special privileges. This is wrong and I hope that all these bail outs STOP and all this BS comes to an end. To have the American tax payers footing the bill to keep these companies running is pure garbage. This in itself is proof that Unions have way too much power. They are literally reaching through the government and into your wallet. I hope all 3 auto companies go out of business before they get one more dime of the tax payers money.

This is as un-American and unconstitutional as it gets. Just because congress passes a law to support this does not means it’s not criminal. Most all these unions are run by socialist criminals and they have their accomplices in congress & white house.
Avery Hayden Wallace
Obama Administration: A corrupt criminal enterprise of bold face liars.
The States formed the Union. The Union did not form the States. States Rights!
GET US OUT OF THE UN. NO ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT!
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California Rifle & Pistol Association
Ron Paul Was Right!
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Question about union worker attitudes in Detroit?
« Reply #140 on: April 13, 2009, 08:28:56 AM »
yep !
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline nomosendero

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Re: Question about union worker attitudes in Detroit?
« Reply #141 on: April 13, 2009, 03:29:01 PM »
As unfair and undemocratic as it is, I agree that politicians beholden to the unions are giving unions workers special privileges. This is wrong and I hope that all these bail outs STOP and all this BS comes to an end. To have the American tax payers footing the bill to keep these companies running is pure garbage. This in itself is proof that Unions have way too much power. They are literally reaching through the government and into your wallet. I hope all 3 auto companies go out of business before they get one more dime of the tax payers money.

This is as un-American and unconstitutional as it gets. Just because congress passes a law to support this does not means it’s not criminal. Most all these unions are run by socialist criminals and they have their accomplices in congress & white house.


Very Good Post!!

And isn't it so wonderful a good deal of the Union money is used to support political candadates that the upper level folks suppot with zero regard for who the individual Union member supports.
You will not make peace with the Bluecoats, you are free to go.

Offline mirage1988

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Re: Question about union worker attitudes in Detroit?
« Reply #142 on: April 13, 2009, 04:39:37 PM »
Cabin- as far as I know, Ford hasn't taken any bailout money yet. They might be struggling as bad as chrysler and guvment motors but were smart enough to not let the wolf in the door (so far anyway).

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Question about union worker attitudes in Detroit?
« Reply #143 on: April 14, 2009, 01:54:36 AM »
Ford is moving its plants out of the USA and going to robots ( they retire to the scrap pile ) . I don't care for that either as it scraps American jobs . Seems that the workers need to come to an agreement on wages or find new jobs . Americans need to back the workers if they take a cut to reasonable wages and the big three don't put them back to work and sell their units at a fair price .
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline 45-70.gov

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Re: Question about union worker attitudes in Detroit?
« Reply #144 on: April 14, 2009, 02:55:15 AM »
Ford is moving its plants out of the USA and going to robots ( they retire to the scrap pile ) . I don't care for that either as it scraps American jobs . Seems that the workers need to come to an agreement on wages or find new jobs . Americans need to back the workers if they take a cut to reasonable wages and the big three don't put them back to work and sell their units at a fair price .



talk is cheap

2  ways to back  the workers

buy thier products.....even  if they are  working  with  robots..some one builts,  maintains, sells  and designs robots

let  the governmet give them  you money.......because they  refuse to work  with robots


i  prefer  the first  option......as  long as they  over  the best  deal
but  if  they can't compete  with some one  that has to ship around the world
they  are  obviously doing some thing wrong
when drugs are outlawed only out laws will have drugs
DO WHAT EVER IT TAKES TO STOP A DEMOCRAT
OBAMACARE....the biggest tax hike in the  history of mankind
free choice and equality  can't co-exist
AFTER THE LIBYAN COVER-UP... remind any  democrat voters ''they sat and  watched them die''...they  told help to ''stand down''

many statements made here are fiction and are for entertainment purposes only and are in no way to be construed as a description of actual events.
no one is encouraged to do anything dangerous or break any laws.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Question about union worker attitudes in Detroit?
« Reply #145 on: April 14, 2009, 03:02:04 AM »
I don't agree as Ford has alot of bots in South America , We must all keep in mind that auto workers and those making parts use what many of the rest of us produce . If they get cost in line and charge a fair price for the products they build we can all work togather . If they don't them put them out of business with the fact it will hurt all of us in some way . The housing industry is going thru. the same thing as an industry but there are no big 3 to target .
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline charles p

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Re: Question about union worker attitudes in Detroit?
« Reply #146 on: April 14, 2009, 05:00:58 AM »
Is there a union anywhere in America who's employees write checks every payday for their dues?  What would happen to membership if the union boss had to stand in the parking lot and collected his dues, and joining was optional?  I think that would be a Democratic option!

Offline Cabin4

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Re: Question about union worker attitudes in Detroit?
« Reply #147 on: April 14, 2009, 05:02:44 AM »
if the government doesn't say we want heavy manufacturing to remain here
..TM7

TM7,

I am taking a very selective part of your post, but this comment scares the heck out of me. The government should never be in a position to make this determinations on consumer or industrial goods. When it comes to defense spending, I agree. The free market should dictate where manufacturing ends up. American companies should be capable of making these determinations without the government making them do it. The only role the government should have to ensure its allowing a competitive environment that will enable US companies to succeed. That should be limited to areas like competitive tax rates, ease in regulation, etc.

When the government has the power to make a “determination” like this, it then has the power to make determinations in both directions. So as an example, if the government decides it wants gun manufactures to fail, well it can do so. When the government can pick and choose winners, losers, those that can off-shore or on-shore, it has way too much power.

The governments over reaching power is the problem not the solution. AIG, GM, and the other back and investment firm bail outs are a classic example of too much government power. They are picking winners and losers and of course the money trail influences the decision makers in Washington. Make big contributions to your favorite senator, congressman or president, and you too can get a bail out and succeed. Don’t make a contribution and you can fail. Its inherently unfair and more, unconstitutional.
Avery Hayden Wallace
Obama Administration: A corrupt criminal enterprise of bold face liars.
The States formed the Union. The Union did not form the States. States Rights!
GET US OUT OF THE UN. NO ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT!
S.A.S.S/NRA Life Member/2nd Amendment Foundation
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Ron Paul Was Right!
Long Live the King! #3

Offline Cabin4

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Re: Question about union worker attitudes in Detroit?
« Reply #148 on: April 14, 2009, 06:34:51 AM »
The government calling all the shots would be the pinnacle definition of as you call it “small group" of decision makers. I rather have tens of thousands of CEO's making economic decisions in the best interest of their company than the one government full of criminal politicians and Washington burocrates telling companies what to do or picking winners and losers based on their political contributions.

We either are or are not a free market capitalist nation. Since our founding principles are capitalism with a small federal government, based on the trading with “many” and allying with none, I prefer this as the means forward. The government will never solve our problems they just change the playing field to create illusions of solution or most often, destroy industry.

Our government is one of the primary reasons why jobs are off-shored today. We have created a corporate tax, personal income tax & corporate legal structure that is an incentive for manufacturing and the associated logistics to be off shored. You want to blame of-shoring of jobs on corporate America’s greed. They are doing it for competitive reasons and in most cases to survive and so we can sell our goods abroad and compete. Why should the American consumer be forced to buy a piece of garbage car out of Detroit at a higher price then say a Japanese car? Why should some politician get to make this decision for us? It’s not the government’s role to make these decisions, it’s the consumer of the goods. If you don’t want to buy a Toyota because of national pride, then don’t.  If you are out for the best value for your buck, you may elect to but the Toyota.

You seem to be afraid of letting people make decisions for themselves and in favor of allowing the Washington cesspool of favors and back scratching make them for you.
Avery Hayden Wallace
Obama Administration: A corrupt criminal enterprise of bold face liars.
The States formed the Union. The Union did not form the States. States Rights!
GET US OUT OF THE UN. NO ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT!
S.A.S.S/NRA Life Member/2nd Amendment Foundation
CCRKBA/Gun Owners of America
California Rifle & Pistol Association
Ron Paul Was Right!
Long Live the King! #3

Offline Dee

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Re: Question about union worker attitudes in Detroit?
« Reply #149 on: April 14, 2009, 09:34:48 AM »
At least according to Dee, ALL the country's problems are the fault of unions. Good Morning, Dee!  See, I'm learning!

Well, you didn't get any support for the Industrialized Norths belief of superior knowledge, and right to tax dollars to fund government sponsored union crime syndicates, so you have resorted to misquoting, taking statements out context, embellishing non-existent thoughts or statements that someone did not make. Having a hard time huh?
Typical Illi"NOISE" mentality. Slander when losing! ;) ::)
I'll bet ole Jimmy Hoffa would agree with me. Where did they (the union enforcers) put that guy? :-\
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett