Poll

Whats the cause?

Big money hoarding
Manufacturers holding back to raise prices
Mexican drug cartels buying too much
Dealers stocking up for future
Scared public buying out of fear of future
option 2 and 5
option 3 and 5

Author Topic: Ammo, firearm, and component shortages  (Read 2058 times)

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Offline Oldshooter

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Re: Ammo, firearm, and component shortages
« Reply #30 on: April 05, 2009, 12:09:07 AM »
Quote
Got a phone call from the NRA two weeks ago...recording told me that Obama, before the campaign, stated he wanted a 500% tax on guns and ammo....alot of my customers told me about this "fact.

Now if that aint the pot calling the kettle black!!   ;)   ;D   ;D

But you know , we aint makin anything up! It is not paranoia that speaks here. What with luke the gook in New York, and that mic O'bama(he's Irish aint he) in Washington, a feller could get the right Idea! Especially a well rounded, unbiased, equal opportunity, diversity trained, guy like myself!
“Owning a handgun doesn’t make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician.”

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."

Offline FourBee

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Re: Ammo, firearm, and component shortages
« Reply #31 on: April 05, 2009, 12:27:49 AM »
  Posted by: DakotaElkSlayer  
Quote
right now that line is producting 1,000,000 rounds of 9mm to try to keep up with demand.

Thanks for that interesting bit of info DES.
Enjoy your rights to keep and bear arms.

Online Land_Owner

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Re: Ammo, firearm, and component shortages
« Reply #32 on: April 05, 2009, 02:58:55 AM »
As our American society hordes cash it would be business suicide to not raise prices on high demand items to offset losses in all other areas.

In the face of China's current vaccuum on raw materials the price of scarcity for the rest of us goes up (ie. brass, steel, copper, etc.)

For the HUGE LOT PURCHASER there is power in negotiating a "good deal", which leaves all the rest both waiting and paying more for the same thing.

We may someday see reloading supplies, guns, and ammunition as real time forms of currency.  I hope I am long dead (of natural causes) if that day arrives.

Joining the NRA is one thing.  Everyone should.  There is strength in numbers. 

Offline Blackhawker

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Re: Ammo, firearm, and component shortages
« Reply #33 on: April 05, 2009, 03:43:35 AM »
Quote
Prior to that, he was not a gun owner.

Maybe thats whats up here! cause to keep this shrtage going, someone has to be buying a "poop" pot full as we say dwon here!

Odrama is gonna stop the buying soon I fear, he is gonna put a tax on "this stuff" that will make your head swim. he cant throw away the 2nd amendment but "they " have proven they can punish or extort with taxes or threat of such!

Its gonna be a long 2 years! and maybe 4 if we dont throw a wrench in the "machine" come 2010!

Which is another reason why I think it would be great if the NRA got directly involved (if they could).  Members get the discount and no extra tax.  Somehow I get this feeling that there aren't too many, if any, gun criminals that are NRA members.

Offline Blackhawker

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Re: Ammo, firearm, and component shortages
« Reply #34 on: April 05, 2009, 02:21:49 PM »
A little update on my trips to the stores today:

I first went to Cabela's to do a little reloading shopping.  The bullet shelf was pretty empty.  I noticed that the majority of the bullets missing were 9mm, 40 cal, .223, and other common bullets used by rapid fire, lead spitters (of course).  My next trip was to the primer and powder area (which is what I needed).  The primer shelf was absolutely empty and the powder area was about half empty.....or half full, depending how you look at it.  :)  I'm sure that if I was more adept in powder types for various calibers I might have concluded the same as the bullet shortages....all powders used on autos, but I cannot say so.  Nonetheless, the two powders I needed the most were not in stock (IMR 4198 and 3031).  I did manage to pick up a bottle of H-335, much to my suprize as I use this powder in my .223 and 30-30 loads for my T/C's. 

I asked the sales rep behind the counter what he has heard as being the problem with the lack of stock.  He said, and I quote, "People are scared they won't be able to get the stuff in the future so they're buying it up fast."  He said he thought it was crazy because it's all based on rumors that aren't true; the war is using it all up, the government is cutting it back, and other crazy stories.  He said people are typically buying anything from 1000 primers to 5000 primers at a time. 

Because I couldn't find the primers and powder I needed, I took a second trip over to Gander Mountain to see what their stock looked like.  When I got there it was just the same.  They had only shotgun primers and 500 Remington brand large rifle mag primers left.  The shelves were otherwise left empty.  As for powder, they were about half stocked as well and again, no 4198 and 3031.  To add to it, their gun stock was about half full and almost NO used rifles out on the floor.  It was almost spooky to see empty cabinets and shelves where there are typically lots and lots of new revolvers and auto pistols.  Just to see what the Gander Mt. people have heard and are saying about the shortage, I walked over to the sales clerk and asked what he thought the problem was.  Again, I quote, and my memory doesn't fail me on this because his answer was quite simple as it was only one word:  "FEAR".  He went on to explain the same thing and that is that people are scared they won't be able to get anything in the future, especially the guns themselves. 

I told him that I was looking for primers and he asked, "what kind of primers you want?"  I thought this was some kind of riddle because the shelves were bare as can be.  I told him what I needed and he said, "wait here and let me see what I can get" and then asked what brand I typically use.  I told him CCI or Winchester but I suppose in this situation that beggars cannot be choosers.  He went in the back and came back out with a brick of large rifle primers by Federal.  He said that there were a few more bricks back there too along with some other sizes as well.  He asked how many I wanted.  Well, I wanted ALL of em but then I'd be doing the same as everyone else if I did that, not to mention the fact that I couldn't afford them.  I finally decided to take 500 of each, small and large rifle, as I figure that by the time I use those and my remaining primers up, this whole thing will be over and things should be back to normal again.  Plus, I figured that this guy was nice enough to offer them to me so I'd better be nice enough to everyone else and leave some for some other poor reloader in despetate search of a few primers. 

My issue, however, is that I've never used Federal primers.  I hope they're OK.  I've heard things about various primers not working well in hand priming tools.  I use a Lee hand primer.  I suppose for now I'll put 10 at a time in the pan just to be safe and not have 50 or 100 of em explode in my face.  (YIKES)
Have any of you used Federal primers?  Do any of you know of any problems using them hand priming tools?

Offline Cowpox

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Re: Ammo, firearm, and component shortages
« Reply #35 on: April 05, 2009, 04:05:04 PM »
Blackhawker,   

      During the 40+ years I have been reloading, I have used Federal primers many times.  I have had no problems of any kind with them.
I rode with him,---------I got no complaints. ---------Cowpox

Offline gypsyman

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Re: Ammo, firearm, and component shortages
« Reply #36 on: April 06, 2009, 02:49:35 AM »
Posted in another forum here. The ammo company's make more money off of their ammo sales, than components. People that don't reload are buying 5 times more ammo than what they usually do, reloaders are buying extra. Company's aren't going to hire a bunch of people just to get rid of them in a couple month's. Should settle down in another couple month's. Seen it happen in '93 and '94 when Clinton started his anti-gun agenda.  gypsyman
We keep trying peace, it usually doesn't work!!Remember(12/7/41)(9/11/01) gypsyman

Offline Blackhawker

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Re: Ammo, firearm, and component shortages
« Reply #37 on: April 06, 2009, 04:09:33 AM »
As for the buying frenzy going on; I think all of the stores that sell anything gun related should represent the NRA or get lost.  This is a time that corporate America can get involved and show the gun grabbers that they don't like the idea of infringing on our rights.  Then, whatever store represents the NRA, then they can require any buyer to join the NRA when buying a new firearm or ammo or whatever.  Existing members would just buy as usual. 

Even now, if the stores can't require anyone to join, they should be urging purchasers to join.  Afterall, buying up all the guns and ammo isn't going to save any of us from the laws that might come about that say we can no longer own them.  It's not about acquiring them, it's about saving the right to KEEP them!  If ownership is safe, then we will always be able to buy guns.  Right now everyone has it Bass Ackwards!  (...but what's new?)  Heck, I'm sitting here not wanting to buy anything else new because I figure it will eventually be taken away.  Why would I want to go out NOW and buy up new stuff?

Cowpox, thanks for the info on the Federal primers!

Offline mirage1988

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Re: Ammo, firearm, and component shortages
« Reply #38 on: April 06, 2009, 04:41:49 AM »
Blackhawker-
Why didn't you ask the guy at the store why he didn't restock the shelves if he had them in the back? He just wanted to keep the feeding frenzy alive I suspect.

Offline Blackhawker

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Re: Ammo, firearm, and component shortages
« Reply #39 on: April 06, 2009, 04:50:01 AM »
I was wondering that too but maybe he just found them??  All the other guys in the department were asking him, "Hey, where did those come from?"  and questions like that.  It seemed like they just got them in or maybe they were recently discovered??  One thing I'm certain of....I'm sure that they're all gone by now.  :)

Offline jimster

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Re: Ammo, firearm, and component shortages
« Reply #40 on: April 06, 2009, 06:08:55 AM »
Now you can't be going hog wild and require people to join the NRA....not American.  They might be a member of some other gun organization anyway, there are others out there gaining in popularity.  If you don't like the way a place does business and prices, you just don't buy anything.  People should already be stocked up on ammo and be able to wait until the frenzy dies down.  It always does at some point, and if your one of those who nver thought about guns and ammo until now, I guess that's a good lesson.  I have walked out of a lot of gun stores lately after looking at their prices, and if they are selling to others I guess that's free market at it's best.  Prices will come down when things calm down, you'll be able to buy guns cheap from people who bought scads of them and need money later, that's usually what I wait for.  Picked up a lot of stuff a year or so after the last big scare was over. 

Offline Blackhawker

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Re: Ammo, firearm, and component shortages
« Reply #41 on: April 06, 2009, 09:52:18 AM »
Now you can't be going hog wild and require people to join the NRA....not American.  They might be a member of some other gun organization anyway, there are others out there gaining in popularity.  If you don't like the way a place does business and prices, you just don't buy anything.  People should already be stocked up on ammo and be able to wait until the frenzy dies down.  It always does at some point, and if your one of those who nver thought about guns and ammo until now, I guess that's a good lesson.  I have walked out of a lot of gun stores lately after looking at their prices, and if they are selling to others I guess that's free market at it's best.  Prices will come down when things calm down, you'll be able to buy guns cheap from people who bought scads of them and need money later, that's usually what I wait for.  Picked up a lot of stuff a year or so after the last big scare was over. 

But Jim, buying them at various prices from whomever we want is not the point.  People are obviously displaying the fact that they want the right to buy and bear arms.  If they think that buying things up is going to save that right, they (and it looks like maybe you) are VERY mistakenly wrong.  If anything, buying up arms like they're going out of style is just more ammo for the anti-gunners to use against us.  Instead, we should direct and pool our determination into something that at least stands a chance at saving this right.

Those of us that have been around the sport long enough have seen this come and go and we all know this will come around again....probably with higher prices.  The only thing that none of can be certain of however, is how long and when the gun grabbers are going to finally make their mark.  .....and what are you going to do with all of those primers, bullets, and guns then?  Food for thought:  the more you have at that time, the bigger the criminal you'll be.  Who wants that? 

230 years ago, sitting around and watching your rights go out the door WAS un-American.  I guess today things have changed!  ???

Offline MGMorden

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Re: Ammo, firearm, and component shortages
« Reply #42 on: April 06, 2009, 12:07:54 PM »
Prices will come down when things calm down, you'll be able to buy guns cheap from people who bought scads of them and need money later, that's usually what I wait for.  Picked up a lot of stuff a year or so after the last big scare was over. 

Also keep in mind that simple economic principal: supply and demand.  As demand for a product goes up, so does price.  As supply goes up, price comes down.  It's the most basic thing in the world.  Right now we're seeing essentially the same supply as a few years ago, but demand shot through the roof.  Prices will go up accordingly.  Eventually, demand will come back down to a normal level.  Odds are though that if demands continues at it's current levels for a bit longer, manufacturers will increase production (and hence supply) to compensate.  When demand falls back down that increase in supply will lag, and we will quite likely see price fall even lower than they were prior to the buying frenzy.

A few other factors come into play (profit margin for example - selling 1000 of a unit at $50 each isn't as profitable as selling 800 of a unit at $100 each, regardless of there being more sales), but overall this will almost certainly result in a short term price hike, followed by a short term oversupply (cheap prices), and then prices evening out again eventually.

Offline jimster

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Re: Ammo, firearm, and component shortages
« Reply #43 on: April 06, 2009, 01:26:11 PM »
Blackwater, I am always listening for the anit's and always watching, I also am aware they want our guns. I am a member of the NRA as well, but there are also other organizations out there as well.  I was just saying if you force people to join something, or try to force them, it leaves a bad taste in some people mouths, they have a right to be free as well, even free from the NRA, and still use guns and ammo.  I of course said nothing about buying guns and ammo saving any rights...I just re-read what I wrote, don't see that in there.  I only said I personally do not buy at prices if their too high, I already have guns and ammo and I buy when I think it's time and watch prices.  My best buys came from private people who needed to unload them.  As far as ammo, I always kept a certain amount on hand, including reloading supplies, doesn't make much sense to go out and buy up a bunch more stuff at these prices right now. But that's just me.  As far as people running out and buying a ton of guns because of who is in congress and who is the president, I'm getting a boot out of it...considering Obama made a comercial walking with a guy with a shotgun.   :D   I think it's funny myself.  I also don't care what the anti gunners think either, you will not change their minds by acting a certain way or not.  They are what they are.  Mainly...yes, support organizations that can take the fight to them, I agree. But let's not shove anything down the throats of people either, there are better ways.  Forcing people to do anything is not a good way to get them on your side.  I'm on your side already. 

Offline jimster

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Re: Ammo, firearm, and component shortages
« Reply #44 on: April 06, 2009, 01:39:38 PM »
scuse me Blackhawker ...I made a boo boo and got your handle wrong....my mistake. 

Offline Blackhawker

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Re: Ammo, firearm, and component shortages
« Reply #45 on: April 07, 2009, 04:16:01 AM »
Jim, I know you're on my side as probably everyone on this site is.

I too think it's funny that people are buying and buying in light of the fact that someone uncertain is in office.  Unfortunately there are some negative side effects to us however.  It's too bad people haven't bought like this all of the time, then the entire country would be gun owners.  :)

I guess I didn't mean to only use the NRA as an example.  Yes, there are other organizations like the 2nd amendment foundation and more. 

Back to gun owners and supporting organizations that take the fight to the anti-gunners:  I personally know (friends, family, acquaintences) roughly ten or twelve gun owners and of them I know that only two or three are NRA members or support some other organization that tries to protect the 2nd amendment.  That's 20%!  That's a shame!  From speaking with other people who passingly have mentioned owning guns etc, I believe this percentage is fairly representative across the board.  Now, if I go to a range where there are regular shooters, the percentage is quite different and is somewhat biased.  But for the average population of gun owners, I think the 20 to 25% mark is probably representative. 

Offline LONGTOM

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Re: Ammo, firearm, and component shortages
« Reply #46 on: April 07, 2009, 04:35:34 AM »
Blackhawker I have been and still am a member of different organizations, and like most I have been a part of everyone wants it done but it is left up to a few to see that it gets done.
Most of the time it is that same few that ends up doing all the work.
That is one of our problems.
The people-gun owners have set back and let someone else take care of it instead of getting involved themselves.

Yes there are several organizations out there who are fighting our battles, at both the federial and state level, but it is time for all to step up and be heard.

We as a group need to take the time to write, email, call our reps in congress and let them know how we feel about things.
Not just about guns but everything that controlls our lives on a day to day basis. 

Small town hall meatings where ever we can hold them, and get people involved.

Letters to the editor in the news paper is a good place to be heard.
Keep it polite and only state facts that can be backed up, cause GOD knows there are those that will try and counter you.

If the nation would only stand together we could take back our government and put this country back on the path our forefathers intended.


LONGTOM


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