An ideal survival rifle

[SHOOTALL]

only one area where your choice is lacking can make it a poor choice .

[teamnelson]

I'm rereading the Last of the Mohicans ... the epitome of the one rifle concept. Granted we live in an age where there may be those with faster loading, longer reaching arms who seek to do you harm. But ... to a point I think we'd do well to master one rifle, even if it is inadequate in certain areas, as opposed to collecting rifles like golf clubs.

[teddy12b]

I'm rereading the Last of the Mohicans ... the epitome of the one rifle concept. Granted we live in an age where there may be those with faster loading, longer reaching arms who seek to do you harm. But ... to a point I think we'd do well to master one rifle, even if it is inadequate in certain areas, as opposed to collecting rifles like golf clubs.

Or.....  We can collect guns like golf clubs, but always have our favorite one or two that we practice with all the time.  You may have had that all backwards.   

[45-70.gov]

I'm rereading the Last of the Mohicans ... the epitome of the one rifle concept. Granted we live in an age where there may be those with faster loading, longer reaching arms who seek to do you harm. But ... to a point I think we'd do well to master one rifle, even if it is inadequate in certain areas, as opposed to collecting rifles like golf clubs.

Or.....  We can collect guns like golf clubs, but always have our favorite one or two that we practice with all the time.  You may have had that all backwards.   

i  am  with  teddy
nelson  is  no  fun  even  if  he is right

[teamnelson]

Truth be told Ive never met a gun I didn't like at least for a minute or two, and a few dozen followed me home. I do however dream of becoming so good with one gun that it's like an extension of me, I just never stay with one long enough to get there 

[Victor3]

Truth be told Ive never met a gun I didn't like at least for a minute or two, and a few dozen followed me home. I do however dream of becoming so good with one gun that it's like an extension of me, I just never stay with one long enough to get there 

 That would be nice, wouldn't it?

 Closest I've come to it in my life was with the Win 62A I carried as a boy. I could almost 'feel' where the bullet was going to hit as I fired. I still have the gun, but it doesn't work the same anymore after cluttering up my mojo with so many other rifles.

[rio grande]

See my comments on the "is one enough" thread...Having worked in the african bush and been on unplanned  "bush survival schools" (we had a war on), I note the following.

1) a .22 isn't enough gun for the bigger problems and is too much gun for collecting dinner. After my first 10 day hike with insufficient rations to start and no proper re-supply, I bought a Webley .177 air pistol. One of the lads in my stick had one on that follow up and kept us all fed on doves. If you are not hiking out accross country, traps and snares keep you better fed on small game like rabbits and guinea fowl (that are too big for an air pistol) than putting in hunting time with a .22. Even a silenced .22 is too noisy when you are the hunted game.

Yes sir! That Webley .177 is a great pistol.  I used mine to nail rabbit and squirrel. Accurate. Cheap to shoot. I shot mine out on the edges of the suburbs, along the ditches and such.  Looked up one time and saw 2 police cars coming down the dirt road, fast.  I set the Webley down and told 'em I was just shooting a "bb gun".  Somebody reported 'man w/ gun".  Turns out me and the cops had a fine time shooting cans together w/ the Webley.  So...an air gun might keep you out of trouble, if that matters.

But..TeamNelson is spot-on with the .223 single shot w/ ,22lr adapter....you can shoot Colibri low-power .22s or CCI CB longs, very quiet indeed. And .223 for 'bad' stuff and deer.
A fine idea.  Rossi's and NEF rifles break down, go right in your backpack.

[SHOOTALL]

Wonder if a Drilling , say 12x12x307 would work or maybe a 12x12x307x22lr

[woodchuckssuck]

10/22 and mini-14. Covers most bases, and both have many available High Capacity magazines. Could swap the 10/22 with a bolt action tube fed .22lr, and a few thousand Remington CBee's...quiet.

[Swampman]

The Mini-14 isn't accurate enough to bother with.  The 10-22 is ok for a Ruger.

[Drilling Man]

Wonder if a Drilling , say 12x12x307 would work or maybe a 12x12x307x22lr

  It's been working for me for over 25 years now,



  It's worked out perfectly...

  DM

[Swampman]

Too heavy & complicated.

[Drilling Man]

  It weighs less than 7 pounds and has been working perfectly for 75 years, so once again you show how little you know of what you speak.

  DM

[Swampman]

My bad it's old, complicated, & too heavy.

[don heath]

The 'cape double' (rifle one side shotgun the other) was a very popular survivalists/frontier mans weapon in Africa. Originaly a military eapon it made the transition to cartridges and remained a standard until WW1- and for good reason - It gave you many options in gathering both food and self defence. Standard just pre WW1 was .303 on the left and 12g on the right. 2˝ case but proofed for 4 drams powder and 1˝oz load- ie roughly the equivalent of todays 3" magnum. choke were rifled so you could use heavy slugs on big game but had minimal effect on buck shot patterns (although it blew the bird shot groups to hell).

I would never choose a single shot weapon (of any sort) as a survival weapon - but a combination rifle shotgun in say .223/ 12g would cover most eventualities

as a side thought....357 and .44 mag work well with Black powder provided you put 3grns of Bulseye type powder (MS200 for me) under the black. Gives well above what bp alone does velocity wise, burns cleaner and would help conserve your stocks of smokless if you had acess to homemade BP

[jlwilliams]

  How about the USAF M4 survival rifle from the cold war years.  It was a 22 hornet take down bolt action with a collapsable stock (grease gun style) It was in the under seat survival packs for long range bombers in the '50's.  Replaced by the M6 22hornet over 410 break action.  The idea was that with bombers flying holding patterns over the arctic and over the oceans, awaiting orders to change course and bomb the Ruskies (glad that didn't happen) a plane could go down and take a while to find.  The rifle wasn't really for 'fighting behind the lines' or the like.  It was for shooting birds or maybe even a snowshoe hare.  Something to hold you over while waiting for help to find you.  In the days before satelite tracking, that would take a little longer than it would today.  As I understand it, bomber crews today may or may not have an M9 pistol.  The plan today is to pick them up faster because we know where they are with greater certainty that was possable then.

  Anyway, here's an auction with pictures of one.  This one has been modified by adding a 2" barrel extension.  The originals were 14".  The pictures don't show the stock fully retracted, but you get the idea.  http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=147402747  Also misidentified as WWII, they were made in 1950.

  Is it an "Ideal survival rifle" as the title of the thread asks?  Maybe, maybe not.  It is, however, a historical artifact that was an attempt at that purpose.  I think it's worthy of the discussion, so here you are.

[Duane]

.22 magnum gets my vote easy to carry alot of extra ammo .can take small to medium size game .I 22 magnum rifle and a single six is all I would need.Survival meeans to me evasion and escape not confrontation.Being a resdient of Louisiana i saw first sight what happened in New Orleans with the levee broke.Law abiding citizens where treated like criminals with their guns being confiscated .So I think I would really lay low and hide .wether in the city or the woods .

[Yankee1]

I have a Beeman R1 rifle that would kill small game reliable.
Using my bow for larger game would work out well.
I have about 65 years experience with the bow and four spare bows.

[SHOOTALL]

There have been many options listed from bow to military arms . It seems many have already decided what they will have to survive in advance . I am not the owner of a crystal ball and live in an area where i can almost be assured that if i find myself in a survival mode i will have to interact with other people . If like I you live east if the Mississippi river you to may find more company than you might expect . Humans are a funny bunch they tend to head in the same direction when things go sour. That said your gun/weapon that you start out with may in fact be only good for a short while as it may break ( choose a good one and one easy to repair ) , ammo may run low , or it may be taken . A good knolege of guns would be a good skill as you may need to aquire one on the run .

[Chappers]

Yankee1, i don’t think you would need a bow if you had a .22lr. i know with larger game us ethical hunters would not use .22lr to take down game of that size but in a survival situation i would not think you would not need anything more in most cases.

[don heath]

Chappers...but to quote the classic understatement from 'Zulu Dawn' (which is one of the best war movies ever IMHO) "but bullets run out and those bloody spears don't".. uttered by one of the british troops long before the ammo supply faultered

A rifle is a short term hunting weapon and long term self defence device. After a week most areas will be very short of big game worth using a rifle (or even a compownd bow) on, and most hunting will be replaced by trapping. If it is EOTW thing- who knows what will emerge from the ashes long term.

If I knew for sure I would sell my house, stock up on seed, etra windmil, ammonium nitrate, diesel medical kit yada yada and get settled into the house in the kalahari.

Trouble is though if Murphy has anything to do with matters I will be in the zambezi valley on a hunt or Sweden...(and I cannot abidde any temperature below 80F)...

[rio grande]

If it HAD to be a rifle....
As far as guns breaking down, and/or being easy to repair if need be....how about a '98 Mauser or Mosin-Nagant?   Tough as nails, and repair is usually simple.  I go with Mauser.  8mm OK, 30-06 or .308 better.

But they are not concealable.  

A handgun example that might be equivalent....Ruger Single-Action??
I think that would be my choice. In .357.

[rio grande]

Mark - no man can defend a house alone. A friend of mine, Martin Olds, was murdered by Zimbabwe government malitia in 2000 at the real begining of the farm invasions. Martin was a 'tough guy' and his murder was meant as a warning to other farmers.

Martin had been warned that he might be attacked. He carried a concealed handgun and had a 12g pump and AR15 to hand.  His house was surounded by a 12' "security fence". Between 90 and 100 malitia backed by police arrived at his farm undetected. He was lured to the gate to talk to the police - when about 20 malita opened up on him. He was wounded, but made it back to the house (a typical brick African Farm house-ie bullet proof). The malitia attacked whilst the police set up road blocks to prevent help arriving. It took the malitia 3hrs to kill martin- he had been hit in both legs and mobility was an issue- he was ultimately unable to defend all points and the house was set on fire with petrol bombs. He was killed as he stumbled from the smoke filled house. 19 malitia died (most from shotgun wounds) and more than 20 sustained injuries. 5 malitia died inside the house.

conclusion- a lone rifleman needs a small, well protected possition with a good field of fire. Once Martin got his AR 15 into action all atacks were launched at the oposite side of the house to the one he was shooting from.

From the Rhodesian war and my own experience in the sundry unpleasntries, any thing that open up the range increases the defenders advantage.

Great advice.
Your friend died like a lion - a real Hero.