more power for the 338

[DLH]

I have a 338 Win mag. I like the case and the caliber. what can I do to increase the powder capacty?
 It is in a 30/06 length action (Mauser)

 is there an Ackley improvement, or a wild cat?

Thanks

Just thinking.

[Reed1911]

Well,

Sure you could improve it and sharpen the shoulder, also you could trim the length on the neck.

Two questions though, what are you trying to accomplish and what do you want to put into the deal (i.e. how much you wanna spend?)

Also to be considered are the gun, is this a bolt action, SS, repeater? It will make a difference.

If you just want to do it, go for it. If you are trying to boost the velocity by more than 100-200FPS you will not get there. 

[iiranger]

Mr. Ackley did a two volume set of books listing the cartridges, factory, improved and wildcat that came out in his era, pre 1985 or so. Thousands. No PPC's etc. Books are available from eabco.com, sinclair international, ebay sometimes (P.O. Ackley, not the nurse)...

The .338 is on the .300 H&H Belted Mag case, shortened for the '06 length actions like the Springfield. Mausers too. Bit shorter. Quite a "thumper" as is. You want more? .340 Weatherby would take a "long action." P14/17. Many have sharped the shoulder of the .338 family. It was quite old when Winchester "standardized it" in the 1960s. You can move the shoulder forward. At the same time most of these big boomers are kept a bit restrained because the kick hard already and in dangerous game hunting reliability is put first. Hit the gunsmith sites and see who is doing what... .338 and .264 were on the same case. Remington did the 7 Rem Mag. Then Winchester did the .300 WCF Mag with shoulder blown forward. You could copy that. Not free. And I don't particularly want the recoil. Getting old. Your call. Luck.

[Wyo. Coyote Hunter]

  DHL, If you have a Rem. action, you can seat the bullet out quite a distance.I tried a long throated 338, it gained some, but not much. The little 338 case is  not capable of much more than it already is doing. If you have the magazine length, that is available in 700 mags. and some model 70's you can go to a bigger case. Bob Hagel experimented a great deal with .338's. Others did also, but I have the information from Bob.  One of his favorite wildcats was a 338/300 Win. He got excellent speed and accuracy. The speed came about because of the tough brass in the 300 win. case. Bob later went to a .340 wea. He found at that time he had to use .375   H & H Win. brass to get top speed in the .340 Now this was years ago, but the information is still good. )Just other brass may do the trick. After fooling with 3 or so .338's I quite and just used my .300 and .375 H & H if I wanted more power. That is still a route one can take. But my shooting pal tried a .340, later I got one also. It has I believe a 26 or 27 inch barrel, but it shoots fast and hits hard. The whole thing centers on the length of your action. If you have a Ruger 77, you are out of luck, the magazine is too short. It can be done on a 700 and some model 70's (that is what Hagel used.) I hope this helps. But making the long throat in the .338 it was increasing the case capacity, but you must also remember it takes additonal powder to bring your speed up to what you had with the smaller case, Then you have to add more to gain more speed. Hope this makes some kind of sense. Really, to increase the speed over the std 338 case, you have to go to a bigger case, .300 Win or say a 340. I don't want to mess with wildcats in a big game rifle. Just my preference

[Catfish]

If your looking for more velocity you will get an increase of 1/2 of the % of increase in case capicity. If your pushing 250 gr. bullets at 2,700 fps. now you will need to increase the case volume alittle over 7% or .39 CC`s. The .338 case is 5.55 CC so you would need to get it to 5.9 CC`s and I don`t think you can get that much from a .338 case. If you go to the .338/ 300 H&H will give you about that. If your wanting more you can go with the .338/ 378 Weatherby, it will increase you case volume to 8.73 CC, but you will need a lot longer action. Bottom line is the .338 case as is, is about as good as you can make it.

[Syncerus]

The obvious choice is to simply buy a RUM ...

[mcwoodduck]

As far as adding more powder to the 338 WM.
You would have to change the base case to either the 378 Weatherby case or the 416 Rigby case and trim and neck to size, then change the bolt face to accomidate the new case.
Or you could take the new 375 ruger case and just neck down to add powder capacity.  Not sure how much you would add but some.

[Lone Star]

The speed came about because of the tough brass in the 300 win. case. Bob later went to a .340 wea. He found at that time he had to use .375   H & H Win. brass to get top speed in the .340  Now this was years ago, but the information is still good. )Just other brass may do the trick.

There is a major problem with Hagel's (and others) attempts of increasing velocity by using different brass.  What is the problem?  Excessive chamber pressures.   Standard  brass handles factory pressures fine, but some brands are tougher than others - so you can add more powder for higher velocities.  But this isn't magic, the velocity comes from higher chamber pressures.  Sometimes very high pressures.

A personal example, not a smart move.  I used Norma brass in one of my first .257 Weatherbys but the chrono showed I was 100 fps behind what the manuals said.  So I got a few hundred PMC cases and started a new loading program.  Low and behold, loads that seemed very hot in Norma cases now seemed mild in the EDs - I figured the PMCs had a greater case capacity.   I kept adding powder until I started getting sticky then dropped back two grains (a Hagel recommendation BTW) and chronographed the load.  I was getting almost 3900 fps (with a 100-grain bullet)!  I have no idea what the pressures were, but they had to be way over excessive.  But the load seemed fine by all the "usual" handloader pressure signs - no sticky extraction, primers not excessively flattened, accuracy was quite good.  All seemed just fine, but the chronograph showed the truth.  I stopped using that load immediately and learned a personal lesson on the use of "normal" pressure signs versus actual pressures.



.

[Wyo. Coyote Hunter]

  Lone Star, Interesting information. But I have followed Bob's advice for most of my life and found his methods for measuring pressure for the average person was about as reliable as any. I am sure you are quite aware each rifle is a law unto itself. I usually, don't want absolute max. loads(some of my pals do), but I do want to reach a load close to the top for the calibers I am using. I had 3 or 4 257 Wea. rifles. It was the most difficult caliber to load for that I have ever owned.  I loved them for a time, and everyonce in a while consider another, but have stuck with the .25-06 for the last few years.