WSSM a re-visit

[josie wales]

Last year I posted a short note about my search for a .220 Swift. My search ended without much luck. The only current options I had,the Remington 700 VS SF,something custom,a used Ruger or a used Winchester 70. The Remington was out, way to much weight and the rest well would break the bank. But I did find a great deal on a NIB Browning Stainless Stalker in .223 WSSM and I did read every post on this and other forums about this caliber. It seems when a new cartridge is brought out there is a learning curve. I have read in old publications that the Swift was a barrel burner,was only accurate with full power loads and case necks stretched with a few shots. Read the same of the .223 WSSM. But I took a chance after all first rule is don't believe everything you read on the net. This little Browning weighs in at 6 1/2 pounds perfect for coyote hunting in the Berkshire mountians of Massachusetts. I put for glass on it a Sightron 11 Big Sky 3x9x42. The mounts (special thanks to Optics Planet they were very hard to get) are standard Leopold.
  A severe ice storm really slowed getting the Browning sighted in and was nagged by all the horror stories I read about the .223 WSSM. Would I be able to hit anything with it? I loaded up twenty rounds. My reciepe was Winchester new brass, 38 grains of Varget,Winchester large primers all under a 55 grain Nosler CT Silver Tip,C.O.L was 2.200
  The weather this year was terrible and it was a while until I had some great days and took the Browning out to a pond, measured off 100 yards and shooting from the prone position fired the Browning for the first time. I tried to see any bullet hole,it was a huge target, but could not see any. I walked up remembering every swear word I ever learned. I got around 10 yards from the target and saw the small hole right in the 1 inch black center! More swearing don't know why just seemed like a good thing to do. I said maybe blind squirrels do find an occasional nut. One click up and four shots later I was really impressed. About 1 1/4 inch group at 100 yards,shooting from the prone position, on a plastic sled on ice! Just a note I bore snaked after the first shot, then two and snaked then two and snaked. Remember this is a hunting gun I dont expect BR performance from this. And again this hand load is just plain jane nothing tailored to my gun.
   More bad weather lots of snow but I was able to get out coyote hunting at the end of February. The first coyote a medium female (sorry no weights mange) caught wind of me or saw a movement turned and I shot it right in the ass. I needed a second shot but it was sure not going anywhere. The second was straight head on about 40 yards and the bullet flipped it 180 degrees. The male never moved.
    The .223 WSSM I think got a bad rap. This gun will not win any shooting matches but that is not what I do . I hunt coyotes and it is perfect in every way. With the 1-10 twist I can shoot 40 grainers at 4200 fps up to 80 grainers. ( I would not do either). But it is very versatile with the options. I hope to work up a good load with 60 grain partitions and some 4350 this summer. It is very hard to tell people that certain guns and calibers are what I call niche guns. Now because of all the bad press=no sales Browning dropped the .223 WSSM from their line up. Watch, a few years from now writers and hunters will praising the .223 WSSM just like the Swift today.

[nomosendero]

"Watch, a few years from now writers and hunters will praising the 223WSSM just like the Swift today."

Well, I am not a betting man but this statement could change my mind. I truely don't think this will ever happen. There are several reasons for that.
1. The Swift was more popular & had some standing when the initial glamor wore off. The Wssm never reached that level of initial popularity to start with.
2. The Swift did not require a special action length uncommon to other calibers when it was introed. or today for that matter. The WSSM is designed for a "super short" action which incurs additional cost to manufacturers.
3. The Swift did not have a dramaticially different brass to manufacture.
4. The Swift offered a new performance level & is good performance even by todays standards. The WSSM's did not bring us a new level of performance. I do like the 1-10 twist, but I can get a 1-10 twist barrel for a Swift or 22-250 & seat the long bullet out, something you can't do in a super short & the WSSM gets beat even then.

The WSSM did not bring anything to the table & I just don't see a "second wind" coming around the bend,
the WHY isn't there at all in my view.

But that sure doesn't mean that you can't enjoy your gun if it shoots well & I do hope it works well for you.
I would advise you to buy a lifetime supply of brass.

[Default]

 Had a buddy's shop that befriended a Winchester Model 70 223 wssm .. When i first heard about this little calibers i liked the idea Short bolt pull 243s and 25-06 rounds that would have a bolt travel like my 17hmr , but the 223 ? Well just didnt quite makes since when i first heard about it... How do you compete with that much time that we the customer have had with the 223 rem (standard) .. It wasnt till i spotted this one in the friends shop that i did some research ... Looked like i was looking at 243 win specs as i glanced at the number for that round ... I really considered it for the other halve , Since it was light and in a caliber i knew she wouldnt complain about on recoil .. But she was dead set on having a lever gun as her woods friend , so it was to be .. I hadnt heard anything bad about the 223wssm , and then again i havent heard anything good either ..  But i love the concept.. Enough so that i have been giving real thought to picking up a AR upper in the 243 or 25 wssm  WHICH is something that not even the 220 swift  could do in short oder 
 So They have found themselves a nice little place in the shooters world that i dont think even Winchester could have foreseen...

 As for the 223wssm becoming a popular AR upper mate ? i dont know , I liked the ballistic on it ... But trying to grab some of that 223 rem pie might be impossible at this point..

 I have owned two different 270 wsmags and loved them both (still have one) and it was choosen due to eye sight loss in my right eye as a kid , not being a natural lefty  i tended to short stroke the long action 7 mag that was my firt lefty bolt gun, The 270 wsm eliminated that for me ..
 So there are always a number of reasons that something takes to flight with the shooters ..

 I'm just glad to hear Josie found himself a good rifle and is having success   ..  Kinda curious to hear what he can squeeze out of this chambering as far as accuracy in the months to come ..

   I know I know a little all over the spectrum with this post ... I'm still waking up 

    Default

[Siskiyou]

I have second nomosendero:  Buy a lifetime supply of brass. 

[dpe.ahoy]

As long as you enjoy it, doesn't matter what others think.  Hell, the 30-30 ain't gonna make it another 100 years.   Just a joke there boys, got 2 of em.  DP

[nomosendero]

As long as you enjoy it, doesn't matter what others think.  Hell, the 30-30 ain't gonna make it another 100 years.   Just a joke there boys, got 2 of em.  DP

Which is the reason I made the closing comment in my first post. BTW, why would someone think the 30-30 is going away, I don't see the tie at all. A person can enjoy any cartridge they like, but with this round buying the brass up front would be a good thing. 

[Siskiyou]

dpe.ahoy you are correct, it is his to enjoy.
I admit that I have been tempted by the WSM, and WSSM cartridges.  The temptation was tempered by my practical side that tells me that I need to spend an equal amount for brass. 
About time Winchester shut its doors the Model 70 rifle in the new cartridges were being heavily discounted.  I found it interesting that old standard cartridges were not being discounted.  They were selling or the stock of them had already been sold.
I had an interest in a 270 WSM or 300 WSM.  I could not find a discounted 270 WSM.  I have to admit to being addicted to the .270 caliber and a faster one is attractive.  At the same time I felt that I needed to buy that life time supply of brass.  At my age that rounds out to 500 cases.
I remember how hard it was hard to get WRF ammunition in the 1950-70 era.  Were the WSM and WSSM going to meet the same fate?
Wildcatters live on a non-conforming round, but it is a point of interest that many of the cases are based on the 30-06 case, 7x57, and 300/375 H&H case. 
I am tempted by the .338 Marlin but if ammunition and brass cannot be found then it becomes a lost cause.  A hope with Remington buying up Marlin is that Remington might start loading for the .308/.338 Marlins.  Two sources of ammunition might spark some life into them.
The only WSM rounds that I see Big Green currently loading is the .270WSM and the .300WSM.  Big Green shows no loads for the WSSM rounds.  I think it points to the future, buy a lot of brass if it can be found.

P.S. I have my supply of 30-30 ammuntion.

[Cheesehead]

Has there been any reasonable wild cat rounds created from the WSSM case?

Cheese

[Lone Star]

The only experience I have with the .223 WSSM is a friend who owns one - but he hasn't shot it much.   IIRC the original concerns about the cartridge had little to do with accuracy - for hunting use that is a more function of the rifle, not the cartridge.  No, the problems were with limited barrel life.   Even some of the reloading manuals have noted this in their own load development.  Funneling all that powder and gas from an overly-large diameter case into a relatively tiny bore will accelerate throat errosion - fact, not theory.  The various 6mm Magnums demonstrated this decades ago. 

It can be mitigated somewhat by using slightly below max loads, by not heating up the barrel with rapid fire, and by frequent cleaning.  I've got two .257 Weatherbys (a noted barrel-burning cartridge) which have given long throat life by following the forgoing rules.   The OP is already part-way there by using a starting load rather than a maximum load.   If it were my rifle I'd continue to use the same level loads, giving ample power and longer accuracy life.


.

[mudstud]

All production Browning and Winchester 223 and 243 WSSM's have a chrome lined barrel.  The gunwriters and reloading manuals who postulated the "barrel burner" hypothesis did not know this.  The 25 WSSM does not have a chrome lined barrel.

For the poster who asked, yes, there have been several wildcats based on the WSSM, one I believe is a 358 WSSM?  Whether any are "reasonable", I don't have a clue, depends on what you define as reasonable.   

[243dave]

The guys in Indiana like the 358wssm because its legal for them to deer hunt with.

[Lone Star]

All production Browning and Winchester 223 and 243 WSSM's have a chrome lined barrel.  The gunwriters and reloading manuals who postulated the "barrel burner" hypothesis did not know this.

Not quite true, as I have read about the chrome lined bores in numerous slick pieces on the cartridges.  Several writers quoted Winchester staff saying that barrel life without the chrome was very short.    But forget that and use your head for a minute - why in the world would the rifle makers go to the extra expense of a chrome lined bore if the cartridge DIDN'T cause excessive barrel errosion in the first place? 
 
The last time I remember a major gun maker having to use chrome in their bores was the original M-16 fiasco in the 60s.....


.

[mudstud]

My point being that production rifles with the chrome lined barrels shouldn't suffer from excessive barrel erosion in these calibers.  Obviously, Winchester realized that without the chrome, they would have excessive erosion, and the chrome is a way to extend barrel life.  I don't understand what it is I'm supposed to use my head about.   

FWIW, many, if not most, of the AR's flying off the racks nowadays also have chrome lined barrels.  DPMS is often excoriated because their rifle bores are not usually chromed, it is an extra cost option specified when the rifle is ordered.  Far as I know, Colt AR's have always been and still are chrome lined.

[nomosendero]

Another good reason to buy RRA with Match Stainless barrels.