Author Topic: 17hmr vs. 22mag rehashed (Read 3743 times)

Arier Blut · « **on:** April 07, 2009, 08:34:08 PM »

Guys please don't flame me. I did a search and dug up everything I could on this subject. I didn't get any input on a new 5mm rifle being produced so now I am in the dilemma of which mag rimfire to buy. I need a rifle for the farm. Critters to be dispatched will be: possum, coon, fox, cat, skunk and ground hog. Every rationalization I have says 22mag. But the 17 is supposed to be more accurate. If I can't hit it, it doesn't matter how much energy the bullet has. Most likely either will be in a cz heavy barrel.
Please give your thoughts on which you would choose if it were you. I am currently using a 22lr for the task of predation since my 5mm barrel has become so unreliable. The accuracy is there with the 22lr but the range is not.
Thanks

Shiner · « **Reply #1 on:** April 07, 2009, 08:44:59 PM »

I've never owned a 22 mag other than in a Ruger Single Six....but I have a 17 HMR and love it. This particular rifle is a Savage w/the Accu Trigger, it goes just about everywhere I go. It is super accurate and I have shot critters out to 200 yards with it several times. For what you are wanting one for I think either would work, but my vote would go to the 17.

woodchukhntr · « **Reply #2 on:** April 08, 2009, 05:12:41 AM »

I second the .17 HMR. It is a great cartridge up to 175 yd. and much flatter shooting than the .22 mag.

Lurker · « **Reply #3 on:** April 08, 2009, 01:56:07 PM »

Both the 22 magnum and the 17 HMR are adequate for the game/pest animals you refer to...

200 hundred yard shots with the 17 HMR are probably stretching the barrel quiet a bit...

I have a Leica range finder. In asking people to estimate the yardage to a target, I haven't seen anybody, able to estimate ranges with any degree of accuracy, at all.

Bill

montveil · « **Reply #4 on:** April 09, 2009, 04:38:17 AM »

I have a H&R 17 HMR with an interchangeable 22 mag barrel ( one screw is all that's needed for the barrel change out) .
I think all the critters you mention would be taken with the HMR with the possible exception of foxes greater than 100 yards.
If you can hit your target with one well placed shot you may want to look into the H&R with both barrels and a good scope and detachable mounts

Arier Blut · « **Reply #5 on:** April 09, 2009, 06:10:18 AM »

Montveil are the handy rifles consistent? I got fed up with the contender because it was hit or miss whether they would shoot or not. I never bought a handi because of that. They seemed like the same setup with the inconvenience of sending them back to the factory for fitment.

How about the 22 mag what is the effective range on say fox, since it seems the 17 looses energy for the bigger critters out far?

Also what kind of accuracy on the 22 mag? I have seen targets posted from the 17 at .5" 100 yard groups there about.

notnodak · « **Reply #6 on:** April 09, 2009, 06:16:19 AM »

HMR will be easier/cheaper to get accuracy out if and with a 20gr game point it'll do what you want. If you're leary about the 17 then go to a 223. If you plan on keeping shots within 150 yrds you could look at the HM2 also. I have one and you lose very little to the HMR and it's less then half the cost.

ncsurveyor · « **Reply #7 on:** April 09, 2009, 06:21:34 AM »

Quote from: Arier Blut on April 07, 2009, 08:34:08 PM

I need a rifle for the farm. Critters to be dispatched will be: possum, coon, fox, cat, skunk and ground hog. Every rationalization I have says 22mag. But the 17 is supposed to be more accurate. If I can't hit it, it doesn't matter how much energy the bullet has. Most likely either will be in a cz heavy barrel.

I have a Henry lever 22mag for dispatching farm critters, and as of yet, none of the animals have complained.

It's accurate to "minute of possum head" out to 120 yards. Not sure I need it any tighter than that.

12ptdroptine · « **Reply #8 on:** April 09, 2009, 12:15:40 PM »

I have a H&R handi in .22mag. I have put 4 shots in 1/4 inch @ 50 yds with 1 flyer while I waited for some folks to walk down range..(barrel cooled off) I use the new Hoenaday 30gr ballistic tip or the Remington 33gr Vmax Bothe shoot sub moa @ 100yds... With these small bullets I think they shoot quite a bit flatter. I have been thinking about a .17 But not enough to get one yet. Drop

montveil · « **Reply #9 on:** April 10, 2009, 03:51:46 AM »

Both my Handi 22 mag amd 17 HMR shoot very tight groups. I got the 22 mag in January and have not really put it through it's paces yet.
There is some overlap between the two cartridges IMO, especially with the mag using 30 grain bullets.
A couple of things to consider is the ballistic coefficients of the various rounds
ballistics comparisons can be found at http://www.cci-ammunition.com/ballistics/rimfire.aspx

The mag with full weight bullets will have better knockdown then the HMR over 100 yards due to heavier bullet weight but also more drop.
Th2 lighter mag bullet will have a poorer ballistic cofficient than the full weight bullet BUT the lighter bullet will get there faster and with less drop.
The HMR has excellent ballistic coefficient and the, lighter bullet really gets there in a hurry and is extremely accurate. Best used around 100-125 yards on small varmints
It all depends on what targets you selecting and the ranges.
IMO, I would get the Mag in Handie and add a HMR barrel later if you want a really accurate flat shooter
Anyhow that's my opinion --AND you realize with this type of question you will get many valid approaches. finally. only you will have to live with the decision--Do your own research, compare the firearm, costs, ammo availability,and ultimate use.
Make your decision and don't look back. Enjoy your shooting

351 power · « **Reply #10 on:** April 10, 2009, 09:52:14 AM »

pests around the farm you are probably not looking at 175-200 yd shots. and you're probably not going to need .25" groups to get a quick shot at a pest that's too close to your place. you just need to hit them with a simple body shot to slow them down. then just walk over close to finish them. nice little bolt gun for .22 or .17 will be plenty accurate and consistant

Halwg · « **Reply #11 on:** April 10, 2009, 11:03:57 AM »

I've been shooting the 22 mag since 1964, and I currently have 2 of them. I've never used the 17 HMR as I see no need to switch. The 22 mags are plenty accurate, and I have killed all of the critters you mentioned with mine out to about 150 yards. I generally shoot at 100 yards or less, and really wouldn't go over the 150, but for me it gets the job done.

Singleshotsam · « **Reply #12 on:** April 23, 2009, 11:37:56 AM »

I took my first HMR to Kansas on a PD hunt. My first kill was at 221 yards on the first shot of the season. Since then I have had no reason to doubt the capabilites of the .17HMR.

bckskin2 · « **Reply #13 on:** April 30, 2009, 01:25:26 PM »

For the shooting I do around my farm, My single six has killed everything I have shot with it and really blows up over ripe produce! I keep looking for a NEF in either, then I can add the other! I also would like to get a .22LR barrel & have it wacked off @ 16 1/2 " for a compact knock around.

woodchukhntr · « **Reply #14 on:** April 30, 2009, 03:26:30 PM »

Quote from: bckskin2 on April 30, 2009, 01:25:26 PM

For the shooting I do around my farm, My single six has killed everything I have shot with it and really blows up over ripe produce! I keep looking for a NEF in either, then I can add the other! I also would like to get a .22LR barrel & have it wacked off @ 16 1/2 " for a compact knock around.

Sorry to be off the thread, but I recently picked up a beater Stevens Crack Shot 26 in .22 LR with a good barrel for $50. It makes a very good knock around since it is easily broken down and is very light. Cans and clay pigeons at 25 yd. cringe when they see me with it. Perhaps if I could see the sights better, I could shoot the cans with only the tops facing me.

Drilling Man · « **Reply #15 on:** May 02, 2009, 03:27:07 AM »

Over the years i've kept quoie a few different guns around my farm for pest control, but the 22 mag. has worked out best... These days i have a scoped Rem. 597M, and it's been working perfectly for the several years i've been using it here. My 597M has never failed to fire or function perfectly, and it will work on everything you've mentioned, and more... If needed, it's what i'd buy again...

DM

woodchukhntr · « **Reply #16 on:** May 02, 2009, 04:55:13 PM »

I had an opportunity to finally go 'chuk hunting today. I shot 8 with my .17HMR Contender carbine at ranges up to 100 yd. All but 1 were instant 1-shot kills. This is typical killing power with the .17 in my experience if I do my job.

Dan Martin · « **Reply #17 on:** May 28, 2009, 04:53:23 PM »

I have both and like both. My experience has been...

For squirrels and similar...HMR every time...more than enough killing power and accuracy for small targets.

For groundhogs and similar, the 22 mag has the edge...especially with the high performance loads such as the Winchester Supreme 34 grain JHP.

The hummer will kill them...but if you're interested in recovering the animal (pelts, etc.) with other than a headshot, again the nod goes to the 22 mag.

Where I live, the 22mag is ~$4 less per box of 50 rounds.

If I could only have one, it would be the Ma-deuce.

Ladobe · « **Reply #18 on:** May 28, 2009, 11:47:41 PM »

Soon after I got my first 17HMR, both of my remaining 22MAG's were retired. Soon after I got my first 17HM2, all of my 22LR's were retired except for one pistol. Have 3 of each of the 17 rimfires. Guess that pretty much states my rimfire choices.

Totally agree with some of the comments, totally disagree with others - probably just like everybody else so no need to rehash them (except one). While within reasonable range you might only loose a little yardage between them accuracy (sic) wise, you do loose a lot of retained energy with the 17M2 VS the HMR. So the HMR is capable of clean kills well past what the M2 is (2X farther on some species). That comes from thousands of rounds fired at critters, not paper and not speculation.

YMMV

oldandslow · « **Reply #19 on:** May 29, 2009, 04:02:23 AM »

I've hunted with all three calibers over the years. When the re-emerence of the 5mm started being talked about on another forum last year I posted my experiences and got really beat up about it. It seems actually using each of them doesn't equal reading ballistics tables even if you haven't ever actually shot something with the caliber in question. My hunting experience with each has been on prairie dogs and jackrabbits because that's what we have. I posted that in my view, after using each, there wasn't a nickle's worth of difference in the three in the real world. I found out pretty quick that all I had to do was look at them on paper, not actual results, and I would know which was best. The only one I have left is the 17HMR and it just sits there. All the priarie dogs have been shot and poisioned out and the rabbits are at the low point in their population cycle.

saltydog · « **Reply #20 on:** June 02, 2009, 04:25:39 AM »

If you would have asked me this question last year I would have answered 17 HMR. I pretty much quit shooting my 22 mags and lr after I bought the 17's. I have both Mach 2 and HMR 17's and have made several long range shots / kills (for a 17 HMR and 17 Mach2) I would not have thought possible with the little round. However with the release of the new Hornaday VMAX 30 grain 22 mag ammo the 22 mag is a superior performer. 2100 plus fps for a 30 grain vmax vs 1800 for typical 22 mag ammo makes all the difference. Price is basically the same for 17 HMR Vmax or 22 Vmax ammo.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #21 on:** June 02, 2009, 05:15:47 AM »

let me say i never shot a 17 [except bb/pellet gun]
you didn't mention coyoty or ferrel dogs or ferrel pigs or 2 legged vermin

i think the 22 mag has the edge,bolt with clip no single shot.....coming from an armchair expert

Keith L · « **Reply #22 on:** June 02, 2009, 01:40:12 PM »

Quote from: 45-70.gov on June 02, 2009, 05:15:47 AM

l
you didn't mention coyoty or ferrel dogs or ferrel pigs or 2 legged vermin

No rimfire is enough for any of these IMHO.

KAYR1 · « **Reply #23 on:** June 03, 2009, 04:45:51 AM »

My 17 HMRs are much more accurate than my 22 Mags. They really tear up the groundhogs, too!

prairiedog555 · « **Reply #24 on:** June 05, 2009, 03:20:15 PM »

I agree with the folks that say that the 30gr. V Max has turned the .22 mag into a new cartridge.
I can't believe the distructive power they have.
I set up a standard 7.5" rip saw blade for a target, shooting my Taurus Tracker 4" .22 mag pistol. I am not exagerating at 40yyd it left a hole the size of a .45cal bullit. and went through a 1/4 " sheet of plywood into a dirt bank.
Great gun by the way.
Have a hard time finding the Hornady ammo, just bought a case, it is that good.
You tell me if you think a groundhog or coyote will not go down hard, hell the only thing I worry about is tearing things up too much.
I'll even go farther, I would rather be shot with RN .38 or fmj .9mm than that
22mag

Keith L · « **Reply #25 on:** June 06, 2009, 02:03:16 AM »

Quote from: prairiedog555 on June 05, 2009, 03:20:15 PM

You tell me if you think a groundhog or coyote will not go down hard, hell the only thing I worry about is tearing things up too much.
I'll even go farther, I would rather be shot with RN .38 or fmj .9mm than that
22mag

Around here both groundhogs and yotes are shot at 150-200 yards. At that range your rimfire is out of gas. No doubt about it. As for your preference I hope you never have to be shot with either, but both .38 and 9mm have both speed and weight over your .22 mag. Both will do more damage. No question, no debate.

bckskin2 · « **Reply #26 on:** June 20, 2009, 11:19:00 AM »

The .38 in a lever gun or 9MM in a semi would certainly take care of the Feral hog,dogs, and 2 legged vermin! When I don't know what or if I will be shooting I grab my son's Mossberg 20 gauge with the Single Six on my belt and never felt under gunned.
Jerry

S.S. · « **Reply #27 on:** June 22, 2009, 03:45:59 PM »

The 17 HMR and 17 M2 are pinpoint accurate.
Head shots are a must on anything you plan on eating
and even with a headshot on Squirrel I have found
fragments of the jacket in the body. As for the .22 mag,
It is just a great old cartridge that I think will be around
far longer than the other two. Personally,I love them all!

Keith L · « **Reply #28 on:** June 22, 2009, 03:55:39 PM »

Quote from: S.S. on June 22, 2009, 03:45:59 PM

The 17 HMR and 17 M2 are pinpoint accurate.
Head shots are a must on anything you plan on eating
and even with a headshot on Squirrel I have found
fragments of the jacket in the body. As for the .22 mag,
It is just a great old cartridge that I think will be around
far longer than the other two. Personally,I love them all!

I have three .22 mags, two .17 HMRs and one M2. I think the M2s may not last, but I guess there is enough interest in the HMRs to keep them around, and the 22Mag will be in it for the long haul (it already has).

bckskin2 · « **Reply #29 on:** July 04, 2009, 07:12:00 AM »

I think some of the confusion may be the use. I don't consider a critter a threat unless he's close to my barn. the only exception is 'possums. They carry some real bad suff in their poo. So I shoot any I find. Rand is still short most of the time & my Single Six has proven to be a clean killer with it's favorite ammo.
With the .22 lr I can count on multi shots.
The worse was some Quick Shok that really blew up plastic bottles ,but blew up too easy on a feral cat. I hit him in the head and mad a awful wound. had him bouncing all over the stall, hit him in the spin, & at least stopped his bouncing. got #3 in hid chest & that finished him. Didn't shoot any thing alive with them again. I keep the 10/22 loaded with Volictors now.
Jerry