Author Topic: Obama says: We are no longer a Christian Nation, at least not JUST!  (Read 2306 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Dee

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23870
  • Gender: Male
There is much adu in the quote which is the title to this thread. However, it is indeed a true statement. Mr. Obama went on to say that we are also a nation of Jews, Hindus, Muslims, and non-believers. Taken in proper context of the statement, this is TRUE TRUE TRUE.
However, is he trying to make a point, or is he APOLOGIZING? That will be the question that will be answered in the probable not too distant future.
I personally have already made up my mind about this man, but my decision was TOTALLY INFLUENCED by my CHRISTIAN FAITH.
I voted for the ex-governor of my home state when he was governor. I voted for him TWICE when he was president. When however, he got on national TV, and stated 3 TIMES, that the Christian, the Hindu, the Muslim, the Buddist, ALL WORSHIPED THE SAME GOD? I walked away, never to support him again, in ANYTHING.
When our newest president BEFORE ELECTION, stated that the QUESTION OF ABORTION WAS ABOVE HIS PAY GRADE, yet CLAIMED Christianity. I AGAIN WALKED AWAY, even though I never supported him anyway.
It is not my duty AND IS ABOVE MY PAY GRADE, to judge a man's heart. That is indeed GOD'S JOB. However, GOD, gave me the information AND THE DUTY, to judge their actions, which he refers to scripturally as FRUIT.
No one has to agree with me, and I suspect many don't, but our HABIT OF SETTLING FOR LESS with this MONOPOLY of the Democratic-Republican two party system, has in my opinion led us to this precipice of HEATHEN RULE we are now under. Not just the president. But the whole damn bunch. Hanging in my opinion should be revitalized, and resurrected for traitors, and we certainly have enough of those. The question is: Do we have the courage, and enough rope?
Just my opinion,
Dee,
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline Questor

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7075
Re: Obama says: We are no longer a Christian Nation, at least not JUST!
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2009, 04:20:52 AM »
Dee:

Have you ever hear the term "blithering idiot" and wondered what "blithering" is? Well, just listen to the prez. He blithers a lot.
Safety first

Offline Dee

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23870
  • Gender: Male
Re: Obama says: We are no longer a Christian Nation, at least not JUST!
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2009, 06:21:38 AM »
Blithering idiot? I think not. Everything he is trying to do to this country seems to be working, and is well received by everyone in the world except the conservative American.
So blithering idiot hardly fits Obama. "Smooth, deceptive and effective" seem more in line with a description of Obama. JMO
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline woodchukhntr

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (108)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2359
Re: Obama says: We are no longer a Christian Nation, at least not JUST!
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2009, 06:29:56 AM »
Dee,

Very well put.  I wish I could have said that first!

Offline JimFromTN

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 339
Re: Obama says: We are no longer a Christian Nation, at least not JUST!
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2009, 06:38:47 AM »
He said we are no longer "just" a Christian nation, but a nation of many other faiths as well.  I fail to see how that is a false statement.  Our constitution does not favor christianity over any other religion.  If it does, please include the ammendment and the exact wording.

As for your ex-govenor, how do you know that they are not the same God.  They all worship one God.  If you actually look at what their religion teaches as far as values and what their God represents, they are almost identical to the bible.  If thier God teaches them the same values that your God teaches you then there is probably a good chance that they might be the same God because after all, the bible teaches us that there is only one God.

Offline Dee

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23870
  • Gender: Male
Re: Obama says: We are no longer a Christian Nation, at least not JUST!
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2009, 06:52:40 AM »
JimFromTn, you obviously have no idea what any of the religions actually believe. If you did, your own statement would embarrass you. I would encourage you to do more reading and less commenting on such subjects until you are better informed. Not even a Muslim would agree with you here. In fact, especially a Muslim.
As for your comment on "just" a Christian nation? Once again you need to "READ". You obviously MISSED MY POINT ENTIRELY on his comment regarding our faith loyalties as a Nation.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline FWiedner

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1686
Re: Obama says: We are no longer a Christian Nation, at least not JUST!
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2009, 06:53:06 AM »
Just as a point of discussion;

If your religion believes that there is only one G_d, how can any religion that worships "a" god avoid it being the same one you believe in?

Different religions may claim that others worship "different" gods because they prefer to preach from their own bowl of fruit-loops, but everyone claiming that there is only one god, and then whining that others worship something else, defies simple logic.

 :)
They may talk of a "New Order" in the  world, but what they have in mind is only a revival of the oldest and worst tyranny.   No liberty, no religion, no hope.   It is an unholy alliance of power and pelf to dominate and to enslave the human race.

Offline Dee

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23870
  • Gender: Male
Re: Obama says: We are no longer a Christian Nation, at least not JUST!
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2009, 07:01:12 AM »
FWiedner, you JimFromTN, make my point very well. Many thanks.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline JimFromTN

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 339
Re: Obama says: We are no longer a Christian Nation, at least not JUST!
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2009, 10:11:29 AM »

Quote
FWiedner, you JimFromTN, make my point very well. Many thanks.

I'm confused.  ???  Didn't FWiedner dispute what you said about your ex-govenor and in a way support what I said?

 ???

Offline SHOOTALL

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23836
Re: Obama says: We are no longer a Christian Nation, at least not JUST!
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2009, 10:33:17 AM »
Because i believe there is but one God has no control over any one else and their belief . I believe those that others call their god ( a god not like mine) are indeed not a god . But to them they are both real and different . Word assoication games not with standing it is a very simple concept to get a hold on .
Dee , If one looks back over time church and state have competed , in this country we have laws to limit such foolishness . It seem the church is under attack now . It seems that if all religion can be grouped togather it will be easier to limit or remove their power at one time .
One nation under GOD , that knocks several of the ones you listed out of the running ( jimfromtn some worship a man not a god ) , non belivers ( nuff said ) if that does not put God in our main stream thinking with regard to govt. i missed something . No we in this country started out under one God , We allowed others to worship their god . Two very different concepts . One need only look at the Consitution in the contex of the time it was written .
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline JimFromTN

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 339
Re: Obama says: We are no longer a Christian Nation, at least not JUST!
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2009, 10:49:12 AM »
Quote
Because i believe there is but one God has no control over any one else and their belief . I believe those that others call their god ( a god not like mine) are indeed not a god . But to them they are both real and different . Word assoication games not with standing it is a very simple concept to get a hold on .
Dee , If one looks back over time church and state have competed , in this country we have laws to limit such foolishness . It seem the church is under attack now . It seems that if all religion can be grouped togather it will be easier to limit or remove their power at one time .
One nation under GOD , that knocks several of the ones you listed out of the running ( jimfromtn some worship a man not a god ) , non belivers ( nuff said ) if that does not put God in our main stream thinking with regard to govt. i missed something . No we in this country started out under one God , We allowed others to worship their god . Two very different concepts . One need only look at the Consitution in the contex of the time it was written .

So your saying that God would never talk to anyone but christians?  Do you believe that John Smith of the mormans actually talked to God?  So you are saying that its not possible for the christian God to talk to a muslim or some other person of a different religion who was not aware of the fact that Jesus ever existed or perhaps talked to them before Jesus existed?  How do you know God had decided to send his son at that point?  Is the Jewish God the same as the Christian God?  Is the God that Catholics worship the same as the God that the Church of Christ worship?  I mean, the God of the Church of Christ would never allow idol worshiping.  Perhaps the Catholics are right.  They were the first christians or the original christians after all.  OC as I like to call it.  Just because Henry the 8th wanted a divorce doesn't mean the Catholics are wrong does it?

The quote "One Nation under GOD" does not specify the God of any particular religion.  How do you know which God they were talking about?  Can you trully legally say that it is the christian God if the word christian is not in the quote?  I think we need to get some lawyers involved.


Offline Dee

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23870
  • Gender: Male
Re: Obama says: We are no longer a Christian Nation, at least not JUST!
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2009, 11:09:45 AM »
Yes JimFromTn, FWiedner I believe did dispute what I said, and seem to agree with you. He seemed to basically say that Bush knew apparently what he was talking about. As a Christian I will state that he does not know what he is talking about, nor with the broad brush you painted with do you seem to know either. Which I have already said.
As far as catholics which is another discussion, about another group it belongs somewhere else, on another forum. OCs? ::)
And getting lawyers involved  ::) to interpret the meaning of anything is why this country is in such a mess to begin with. ::) What we really need to do is get the lawyers OUT of our business.
The Constitution, and the Bill or Rights were formed on CHRISTIAN PRINCIPALS, and that IS historical fact. When a group of people abandon its CORE PRINCIPALS, and opt for FEEL GOOD PRINCIPALS, then the wandering begins, and we as a nation are adrift morally. That is why we are where we are today. Everyone wants to RE-WRITE our history, including the origin of our founding documents.

Not founded on Christian Principals you say? No proof? Of the 56 men that SIGNED THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE, 24 of the (almost half) held Christian Seminary or Bible School degrees.

How did our writers of the Constitution REALLY FEEL.
Some CHRISTIAN QUOTES FROM THEM.

George Washington
While we are zealously performing the dties of good citizens and soldiers, we certainly ought not to be inattentive to the higher duties of religion. To the distinguished character of Patriot, it should be our HIGHEST GLORY to add the MORE DISTINGUISHED CHARACTER OF CHRISTIAN
.
From: The Writings of Washington pages 342-343

John Adams in a letter to Thomas Jefferson wrote:
The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were THE GENERAL PRINCIPLES OF CHRISTIANITY. I WILL AVOW THAT I "THEN BELIEVED" AND "NOW BELIEVE" THAT THOSE GENERAL PRINCIPLES OF CHRISTIANITY ARE AS ETERNAL AND IMMUTABLE AS THE EXISTENCE AND ATTRIBUTES OF GOD.

Thomas Jefferson wrote in the book: The Writings of Thomas Jefferson page 385
I AM A "REAL CHRISTIAN" THAT IS TO SAY, A DISCIPLE OF THE DOCTRINES OF JESUS CHRIST.

Jefferson as you may not know or recall, was the 3rd US President, Drafter, and SIGNER of the Declaration of INDEPENDENCE!

John Hancock the 1ST SIGNER OF THE DECLARATION INDEPENDENCE SAID:
RESISTANCE TO TYRANNY BECOMES THE CHRISTIAN AND SOCIAL DUTY OF EACH INDIVIDUAL...COTINUE STEADFAST AND, WITH PROPER SENSE OF YOU DEPENDENCE ON "GOD", NOBLY DEFEND THOSE RIGHTS WHICH HEAVEN GAVE, AND NO MAN OUGHT TO TAKE FROM US.

In a letter to Ezra Stiles, then President of Yal University on March 9, 1790 BENJAMIN FRANKLIN WROTE:

AS TO JESUS OF NAZARETH, MY OPINION OF WHOM YOU PARTICULARLY DESIRE, I THINK THE SYSTEM OF MORALS AND HIS RELIGION, AS HE LEFT THEM TO US, IS THE BEST THE WORLD EVER SAW, OR IS LIKELY TO SEE.


Christian values in our Declaration of Independence, Constitution, and Bill of Rights. Yes, indeed think so. Unless you choose to continue to IGNORE AMERICA'S HISTORY!
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline JimFromTN

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 339
Re: Obama says: We are no longer a Christian Nation, at least not JUST!
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2009, 11:19:57 AM »
Allot of our forefathers, including George Washington were freemasons.  Freemasons believe that one must believe in the existence of a “Supreme Being”, which includes the “gods” of Islam, Hinduism, or any other world religion.   That being said, it would make sense that our forefathers would specify "God" and not mention Jesus and christianity.

Offline SHOOTALL

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23836
Re: Obama says: We are no longer a Christian Nation, at least not JUST!
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2009, 11:27:55 AM »
I went back and looked and can't find my saying anything about who God talked to . I read the book of Mormans , Most not all and have to say i remained Baptist . You can take that to mean i niether believe he did or did not as it is of no concern to me . I believe God ( to me the only God can do anything , that would include talking to whom ever he chooses to . Not sure why you threw in the existance of JESUS so i will refrain from that one . The Jewish God is the same God as the Christian God and casual reading of the Bible would prove that . However the way each faith worships is different ( one of the reasons people came to this country , and if i may most likely had something to do with in God we trust ). It would appear God sent his son to offer us salvation . His timming was just that his .
Catholics believe as strong as any other faith . We all choose our belief as far as right and wrong only God can say and did in the Bible it is man who fights over the meaning .
Old Henry the 8th is one man if you wish to conclude that he alone determined the right or wrong of any religion have at it I don't believe he had the insight . and as far as i care what he did made nothing right or wrong  other than his sins
Like i said if you go back to the contex of the day " In God We Trust " was written and look at the writings of the Consitution and other documents of the day it would be hard if not impossible to believe a god other than the Christian / Jewish God was was repesented here . IMHO
Lawyers ?
They settle disputes among men so yes if you do as i noted above with regard to the writing of the day it can be argured that the God i speak of was the one they were writing about . Can you prove beyond a doubt it was not using writing and laws from the time in which it was written ?
I ask you examine the writings of Jefferson in particular with regard to the Muslims when he sent troops to North Africa to attack them . He read the Koran to gain insight into what and who they worshiped and believed . This alone leads me to believe he had not considerd their God when writing the consitution as it was written years before he sent troops . Just one example . Also just how many Peoples were in America at the time the phrase was penned ? let alone religions ?
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline SHOOTALL

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23836
Re: Obama says: We are no longer a Christian Nation, at least not JUST!
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2009, 11:30:56 AM »
With the exception of law in La. ( french ) law in this country find their start in British common law which comes direct from the Bible , yet another item to support the concept of which god is refered to .
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline jager

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 287
Re: Obama says: We are no longer a Christian Nation, at least not JUST!
« Reply #15 on: April 08, 2009, 11:39:04 AM »
   Whether you believe in my Judiac/Christian God does not matter in the least to me, although I would prefer that you do! However, the "founding fathers" of our country did believe it was important enough to include it in our Constitution and spoke of him in almost every "document" regarding our rights.  Almost to a man, they considered "faith based" religion to be essential for the "moral health" of a nation where we would be governed by a set of laws and not by emotions or passions. So it does make a difference to me if our President believes our country was founded as a Christian nation, "One Nation Under God", who recognizes other religions have a Constitutional right to exist under our rules.

   Our first President was a "Free Mason" and a president of his the first "lodge" in Alexanderia; however, if you read his writings, he was a devote Christian who professed Jesus as the "Christ" while not "disrepecting" the beliefs of his fellow "patriots" whom many were "diest" at best. Ben Franklin, who had a background as a member of the Quaker faith, was a "deist" with several "founders" who ranged from "ordained ministers" to "agnostics" who were undecided to the end.

    Separation of Church and State was not the issue, considering King George and the "Church of England", the greater issue was that there would never be established a "State Church" as many of the European nations had done by previous governments.

   I also believe our rules are more "just" than other nations who "majority" religion is not Christian, regardless of "sect". You do not have to know "my" god (in the secular tense) if the rules are fair to all religions and are equal under the law. It does make a difference if "your" god does not recognize the laws and allows you to disregard them according to your religious beliefs. If that's the case, you can either seek to change the law or move to a government who is "in accordance" with your prescribed religious laws. (I believe Joeseph Smith did this, as well as Mohammand and others.)
 
   Contrary to the "History Channel", Allah was an Arabic "moon god" with Mohammad as its "prophet" who, according to the Quaran, states that Jesus was a prophet much like "John the Baptist".  The Quaran further states that the "trinity" is defined as "father, son, and mother Mary" to the "infidels" (non-Muslims); Abraham was the father of Ishmel and Isacc was of no importance. Mohammad "converted" followers by the sword, had many wives (even one "pre-teen"), considered it OK to lie and deceive all "infidals" for religious gain, and sought a "Holy War" of "Jihad".  I hardly think this would pass the "muster" of our concept of "Yahweh" and his son Jesus who willingly died for "mankind".
 
   The Buddhist do not believe in a "supreme" god and considers Siddhauthe Gautamo ("Buddha") to be the "great teacher" of the faith (died 400BC) of "spritual enlightenment" where one ascendes the "evolutional chain" of greatness through "reincarnation". The most violent of the bunch "douce" themselves with gassoline in protest to "social injustices" (if we could only convince "environmentalist" and "animal rights" activist this is a good practise :D).

   The Hindus believe in many gods that exists in every part of "nature" or "inanimate" objects. If you care to read their "scriptures", the "Srnti" "Smati" you might recognize "Greek mythology gone wild". While peaceful Hindus do exist, contrary to British conflicts to the contrary, they do not coexist as peacefully as when they are in the "minority". Consider the Indian/Paskistian conflict that has been on going since the British left them to their own devices. (I believe we have some active "sects" of this religion in the guise of "tree huggers".)

   Muslim conflicts have existed since their 7th century beginnings and they do not permit "apostasy" of other religons without persecution of that religion.  Muslims, like Hindus, have peacefully coexisted with other religions for short periods of a time until they can gain "political" status.  Once they gain an upper hand to the "reins of power", their "theocracy" begans and religious freedoms cease. Their toleration of other religions can be witnessed anywhere in the "near east" and the many war torn countries in "North Africa". Their "apologest" only kid themselves at best, and try to deceive us in the least. The "Holy War" may have ceased for us when the "Crusades" officially ended, but it has not for them. Separation of state does not apply to "Shira Law" and is not even an item for discussion item for a Islamic nation.

   Buddists have been the most peaceful of all the religions, but they have never come close to their "Nirvana" except in their "minds". "Tibet" has only been a "sancuary" due to its isolated location. They don't make good soldiers, are not normally engaged in commerce, and require a government to feed and protect them (I think the Chinese government has decided not to).

   If you want to believe all these religions believe in the same god, you are given that freedom by our form of government that protects that "God given right" and backed up by our Constitution. It doesn't even tell you which version you have to believe to understand the rights you are entitiled to partake. However, I don't advise you move to another country under one of the other "major" religions and expect the same freedoms and protections.
  
   When our God is abandoned, along with our Constitution, the strongest religion will "fill the void"!  You better hope that that void will not be filled by one of the other great religions like Islam or we will all find out how their version of America not only does not accept Christianity, but they certainly don't accept Atheist or Agnostics!

   Dee, you and I agree about much; but I will never agree with you that there was no difference between a Bush or a McCain compared to Obama. No, I did not agree with Bush's accessment of Islam, nor did I agree with McCain's version of "appeasing" socialism; however, I would take either's view regarding the Constitution or the definition of Capitalism and religion over Obama's any day! Just like there is a differences between Socialism and Communism there is a major difference between Christian leaders of either party than a Muslim masquerading as an American who is quickly distroying our economy and its institutions.

   In 70 days we have spent more money than all the "administrations" combined from President Washington to the last President, and we are letting government "forceably" take charge of our banking system, oil industry, car industry, faith based charities, and health care industry.  At least "Creeping socialism" was better than tyranny! Sorry for the length of the post; I'm just trying to catch up.

Online Graybeard

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (69)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26944
  • Gender: Male
Re: Obama says: We are no longer a Christian Nation, at least not JUST!
« Reply #16 on: April 08, 2009, 11:40:36 AM »
Allot of our forefathers, including George Washington were freemasons.  Freemasons believe that one must believe in the existence of a “Supreme Being”, which includes the “gods” of Islam, Hinduism, or any other world religion.   That being said, it would make sense that our forefathers would specify "God" and not mention Jesus and christianity.

You clearly know NOTHING about freemasonary. I suggest you stick to topics you know a bit about.


Bill aka the Graybeard
President, Graybeard Outdoor Enterprises
256-435-1125

I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life!

Offline Dee

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23870
  • Gender: Male
Re: Obama says: We are no longer a Christian Nation, at least not JUST!
« Reply #17 on: April 08, 2009, 11:47:48 AM »
JimFromTN, and FWiedner, I have edited my post # 11. Read the additions and once again make your foolish statements that our founding fathers were talking about just ANY god.
I would once again suggest JimFromTN, stop trying to re-write history the way YOU HEARD IT, and read the way it REALLY WAS. ;)
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline Swampman

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (44)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16518
  • Gender: Male
Re: Obama says: We are no longer a Christian Nation, at least not JUST!
« Reply #18 on: April 08, 2009, 11:50:58 AM »
Quote
Obama says: We are no longer a Christian Nation

That's the first thing I've ever heard him say that is correct.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline Dee

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23870
  • Gender: Male
Re: Obama says: We are no longer a Christian Nation, at least not JUST!
« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2009, 11:51:48 AM »
jager, as you say we agree on much and disagree on a little. Or at least that's what I think you said, and what I believe.
I gave my version of my belief, but the thread is based on Obama's apparent apology to the world for us EVER BEING a Christian nation.
My entire point was the WATERING DOWN of Christian VALUES. Bush was guilty as hell in that regard, or he just didn't know what he was talking about.
This thread is not about the lessor of two evils, or what ifs concerning McCain. It is about WHAT WE NOW HAVE AND WHY.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline JimFromTN

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 339
Re: Obama says: We are no longer a Christian Nation, at least not JUST!
« Reply #20 on: April 08, 2009, 11:55:24 AM »
Here are a few things that I read about freemasons.  

The very process of joining the Lodge requires Christians to ignore the exclusivity of Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. According to Freemasonry, a person will be saved and go to heaven as a result of his good works and personal self-improvement.

The Bible is only one of several “Volume(s) of Sacred Law,” all of which are deemed to be equally important in Freemasonry. The Bible is an important book, only as far as those members who claim to be Christians are concerned, just as the Koran is important to Muslims. The Bible is not considered to be the exclusive Word of God, nor is it considered to be God’s sole revelation of himself to humankind; but only one of many religious sourcebooks. It is a good guide for morality. The Bible is used primarily as a symbol of God’s will, which can also be captured in other sacred texts, like the Koran or Rig Vedas.

There is no exclusivity in Jesus Christ or the Triune God who is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; therefore there is no doctrine of the deity of Jesus Christ. It is deemed to be un-Masonic to invoke the name of Jesus when praying, or mention His name in the Lodge. Suggesting that Jesus is the only way to God contradicts the principle of tolerance. The name of Jesus has been omitted from biblical verses that are used in Masonic rituals. Jesus is on the same level as other religious leaders.


In addition to George Washington. Ben Franklin and 13 others were definately freemasons who signed the Declaration of Independence.  There were quite a few other including Jefferson that were suspected but not proven.

Offline victorcharlie

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3573
Re: Obama says: We are no longer a Christian Nation, at least not JUST!
« Reply #21 on: April 08, 2009, 11:55:55 AM »
H  Our constitution does not favor christianity over any other religion.  If it does, please include the ammendment and the exact wording.



How about we let John Jay, Author of the second Federalist paper tell us what the constitution means?

quote

With equal pleasure I have as often taken notice that Providence has been pleased to give this one connected country to one united people--a people descended from the same ancestors, speaking the same language, professing the same religion, attached to the same principles of government, very similar in their manners and customs, and who, by their joint counsels, arms, and efforts, fighting side by side throughout a long and bloody war, have nobly established general liberty and independence.
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Tolerance in the face of tyranny is no virtue."
Barry Goldwater

Offline Swampman

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (44)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16518
  • Gender: Male
Re: Obama says: We are no longer a Christian Nation, at least not JUST!
« Reply #22 on: April 08, 2009, 11:58:10 AM »
Quote
Suggesting that Jesus is the only way to God contradicts the principle of tolerance. The name of Jesus has been omitted from biblical verses that are used in Masonic rituals. Jesus is on the same level as other religious leaders.

A really good reason not to be a Mason.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline SHOOTALL

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23836
Re: Obama says: We are no longer a Christian Nation, at least not JUST!
« Reply #23 on: April 08, 2009, 11:59:33 AM »
which ones ?
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline Cabin4

  • Avery H. Wallace
  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4938
  • Gender: Male
  • Out West
Re: Obama says: We are no longer a Christian Nation, at least not JUST!
« Reply #24 on: April 08, 2009, 12:04:46 PM »
Paraphrasing per the Freemasons.

Masons believe that there is one God and that people employ many different ways to seek, and to express what they know of God. Masonry primarily uses the appellation, "Grand Architect of the Universe," and other non-sectarian titles, to address the Deity. Masonry believes in religious freedom and that the relationship between the individual and God is personal, private, and sacred.

Sacred Law, "the rule and guide of life," is an essential part of every Masonic meeting. The Volume of the Sacred Law in the Judeo/Christian tradition is the Bible; to Freemasons of other faiths, it is the book held holy by them.



Avery Hayden Wallace
Obama Administration: A corrupt criminal enterprise of bold face liars.
The States formed the Union. The Union did not form the States. States Rights!
GET US OUT OF THE UN. NO ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT!
S.A.S.S/NRA Life Member/2nd Amendment Foundation
CCRKBA/Gun Owners of America
California Rifle & Pistol Association
Ron Paul Was Right!
Long Live the King! #3

Offline Dee

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23870
  • Gender: Male
Re: Obama says: We are no longer a Christian Nation, at least not JUST!
« Reply #25 on: April 08, 2009, 12:08:52 PM »
Cabin4 as you seem well informed concerning masonry, it is not the topic. Others have tried to tie it into the discussion however it doesn't fit the topic.
Let us get back on topic everyone. Is obama right, or wrong, is he apologizing, or did I misunderstand him?
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline SHOOTALL

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23836
Re: Obama says: We are no longer a Christian Nation, at least not JUST!
« Reply #26 on: April 08, 2009, 12:11:10 PM »
If he said that and i don't doubt you one bit , he is wrong .
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline Dee

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23870
  • Gender: Male
Re: Obama says: We are no longer a Christian Nation, at least not JUST!
« Reply #27 on: April 08, 2009, 12:14:54 PM »
If he said that and i don't doubt you one bit , he is wrong .

Are you talking about what Obama said? Of course he said it, look on youtube or any other and hear it for yourself. The video is making the rounds.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline SHOOTALL

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23836
Re: Obama says: We are no longer a Christian Nation, at least not JUST!
« Reply #28 on: April 08, 2009, 12:18:50 PM »
Don't need to look i believe you and agree with your post . I feel he has not repesented our country for which it stands .
They haven't changed the laws yet have they ?
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline Swampman

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (44)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16518
  • Gender: Male
Re: Obama says: We are no longer a Christian Nation, at least not JUST!
« Reply #29 on: April 08, 2009, 12:27:00 PM »
If we were accused of being a Christian nation, would there enough evidence for conviction?

I sure don't see it.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~