Author Topic: why do Police and Fire leave their vehicles running  (Read 502 times)

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Offline Foxxtrot

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why do Police and Fire leave their vehicles running
« on: April 08, 2009, 07:23:40 AM »
Three firetrucks, two ambulances, and three police cars are sitting outside of a apt building nearby for two hours or more...all running with lots of people standing around. Seems like a big waste of money?
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Offline LONGTOM

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Re: why do Police and Fire leave their vehicles running
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2009, 08:47:47 AM »
It is a big waste of money.
That said, the main reason the fire dept leave theirs running is because of the massave amounts of current all the lights and acc take.
The batteries would be dead in 15 min if the motor wasn't running.
I often wondered why they didn't install a generator to run things.
Would cost less to operate.

As for the police cars, the same reason and in case a suspect tried to run they could give pursuit quicker.

At least that are the reasons our local police gave when questioned about the same thing not long ago.

Our local police have been ordered to turn the engine off if they are not in an active stance, or in other words if they are just watching for speeders or are on surveillance.


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Offline Siskiyou

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Re: why do Police and Fire leave their vehicles running
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2009, 09:18:26 AM »
Having started as an emergency responder in the dark ages vehicle electrical systems do not keep up with the full electrical needs of the unit.  Agency heads in many cases buy low bid batteries that cannot carry the load.  A number of times I have had to jump start private ambulances at accident scenes because of dead batteries.

I gave my patrolmen a second ignition key so they could lock the door of their idling unit.  Our fine citizens have been known to steal emergency vehicles.
 
The life cycle of an automotive battery in an emergency vehicle is short.  Many fire engines which have room have two or more batteries.  Low bid batteries go fast.

Large SUV and pickups have room for two batteries.  I had my last two or three vehicles setup with dual batteries.  One battery was dedicated to vehicle starting.

Agencies cannot afford to update radio systems every two or three years.  The transition from analog to digital is getting rid of many old radios.  Some of the smaller departments were using 30-yearold radios. 
 
Fire Department and law enforcement units at times have more than one radio because of mutual aid agreements.  When radios are scanning more than one frequency
Before the medical aid became the primary activity of fire departments equipment had time to recharge on an in station charger.  A deputy I knew quit law enforcement to become a medic for a large County Fire Department.  He soon found it to be an exhausting 24-hour shift; the primary calls were from the elderly and delivering new citizens into this country.  His paramedic unit with dual batteries never had time to recharge between runs. 

Fire equipment is expensive and maybe on the line 25 or more years.  Electrical and cooling systems may not keep up with demands.  A vapor lock can shut down a piece of equipment and has cost wildland fire fighters their lives because they were not able to escape from the fire.  Structural fire fighters face the risk of buildings collapsing on their equipment or a fire extending to a propane tank or natural gasoline.  When needed you want to put the rig into gear and go.

I started issuing extra keys after a couple of Mexicans stole one of my patrolmen’s unit.  He had left his vehicle radio on PA when went over the road bank with a first aid kit.  The people from the vehicle over the bank had already made it up the hill and hide.  The vehicle over the bank was later determined to be stolen.

It is very costly, equipment savings on the frontend of lowest bid public safety equipment has big down the road cost, from fuel, oil change frequency, wear and tear on components.  I am sure the many experts have practical answers, and are currently hammering out letters to their city, county, state, and federal departments heads demanding high output electrical systems, and oversized cooling systems for emergency equipment.

I was following the turmoil in a large city council when the City fire Chief recommend the replacement of a 40-yearold ladder truck, and a couple of old engines.  The City was unwilling to replace the equipment that was down more days then up.  One engine had chronic brake problems which resulted in a major law suit.  When the old equipment broke down they had to have broken parts customed manufacture. 


It is very costly, equipment savings on the frontend of lowest bid public safety equipment has big down the road cost, from fuel, oil change frequency, wear and tear on components.  I am sure the many experts have practical answer
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Offline burntmuch

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Re: why do Police and Fire leave their vehicles running
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2009, 09:29:42 AM »
Yeah what he said. Our vehicles are plugged in at the station to help with the batteries. If we were to shut the rigs off on seen , we would end up with dead batteries. Another thing is the radios, the engine has to be running to run the repeaters for our radios. Big exspense I know. & if its below freezing we have to have the water flowing between pump & tank on our firetrucks.
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Offline hunt-m-up

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Re: why do Police and Fire leave their vehicles running
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2009, 12:03:52 PM »
I guess it's all relative. If you are trying to save my home and/or family go ahead and let 'er run. Public safety is an area I'm willing to pay for.
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Offline Foxxtrot

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Re: why do Police and Fire leave their vehicles running
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2009, 12:07:26 PM »
just wondering. Sat there for four hours and did nothing. One truck in action, the rest sat.
“A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity.” Sigmund Freud

Offline Siskiyou

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Re: why do Police and Fire leave their vehicles running
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2009, 02:48:09 PM »
I cannot address your question directly because I was not there.  OSHA has a rule on firemen inside a structure.  X number inside requires X outside with breathing equipment to rescue firemen caught in a building collapse.
 
If you are toast in a build it is a good rule and it was brought about by loss of life across the country under similar circumstances.  It is better to have manpower on scene then setting at a station half hour away.  Normally the Incident Commander (IC) will make additional resources at scene available for dispatch, and still have need resources.

If you have ever worked inside a structure over hauling after a fire wearing turnouts and air pack you know it is exhausting.  The carbon monoxide builds up in the blood stream and you are bathing from your sweat in your turnouts.   The IC will rotate resources in and out of the structure. 

A lot of times fire will request law enforcement to standby at a location because of a history of bad conduct at the immediate location, or in the neighborhood.  On good days all L.E. needs to do is be present and those who cause problems keep out of trouble. 
There was a change of protocol a few years ago on certain calls.  The best example is suicide or attempted suicide.  Many of these people want to make a dying statement by taking others with them.  Firemen and rescues are a handy target.  The Fire Department will stage back from the address until L.E. has cleared it for entry. 

I have said for years that empty seats on a fire truck does not rescue people, lay hose, or cut fireline.  One of the main items the budget cutters go after is manpower.  If a FD station is cut back to two or three men per shift additional manpower needs to come from a second or third station. 

Dispatch centers have pre-set run cards designed to fit a number of scenarios.  Weather being a major factor.  High winds that cause rapid fire spread between structures, or in the wildland will require a larger response.

An ill person on a second store may require six or more people to safely move the person out to the street.  The time it takes to check a victim, take first aid measure, secure the victim on a backboard adds up.  It is better to take a few minutes and install a collar on a victim, and properly secure them on a backboard before moving them.  With our aging society many victims are overweight, and very fragile.  Handling the sick and injured is more than slapping a band aid on a cut finger.

Recently I was outside a large medical center when two fire engines and a Battalion Chief arrived code 3.  A remote sensor inside the building generated an automatic response.  For two hours three firemen with tools search the center, while three firemen stood by the equipment outside ready to take whatever action was required.  One fireman had to keep herding arriving patients to other locations because they wanted to park and block the engines route out.  Some folks are not very bright.

 About time my wife came out from an adjacent building the firemen were packing up without finding anything.  A fireman apologized for blocking our vehicle, I told him we were not worried about it, and we did not mind waiting.
There is a learning process to effectively using a gps.  Do not throw your compass and map away!

Boycott: San Francisco, L.A., Oakland, and City of Sacramento, CA.

Offline alpha wolf

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Re: why do Police and Fire leave their vehicles running
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2009, 05:37:47 PM »
We leave our patrol cars running for several reasons one is that of starter problems.  Normally not a big problem but with our current fleet they seem to go through starters and flywheels rather quick.  Not to long ago we had a call and one car could not get started and another had to come back and pick them up.  We are a small department so we need every officer possible to respond.  That slowed our response time.  Another reason is during the winter to prevent the windows from freezing up and to have a place to warm up.  During the summer we try not to run them unnecessarily to prevent over heating and to save as much gas as possible. 

Offline mirage1988

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Re: why do Police and Fire leave their vehicles running
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2009, 05:41:59 PM »
Do they give you one bullet too in mayberry? :D

Offline alpha wolf

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Re: why do Police and Fire leave their vehicles running
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2009, 10:26:26 PM »
What do you do with a bullet?   ;D