Author Topic: new charter arms revolvers for 40,45 & 9 mm (Read 2038 times)

handi270 · « **on:** April 08, 2009, 09:22:59 AM »

Any thoughts on the new charter arms 5 shot revolvers chambered for 40 S&W, 45 acp, and 9mm?

They are not out yet, the first is supposed to be chambered for 40 S&W.
Does not use any type of clip, the ammo is held in by a spring in the extracter, ejector and works like any other wheel gun.

The 40 and 45 will utilize the bulldog frame.

I have a 40 cal. carbine and baby eagle, so a 40 cal revolver is very appealing.

What about charter arms in general, are they ok?

I am not usually one to buy a new product when it first comes out, but if these work out they will probably be very popular and in todays gun buying frenzy demand will most likely exceed supply.

coyotejoe · « **Reply #1 on:** April 09, 2009, 03:53:30 AM »

I don't know, Charter builds a pretty marginal revolver and a rimless extractor would introduce another potential liability into an already questionable format. I have one of the old model Charter Arms .44 Bulldogs and while it is surprisingly accurate and has thus far been reliable, the flimsy cylinder crane and sloppy lock up does not instill confidence. I'd like to see a revolver like the "bulldogs" of old, a simple solid frame. Eliminating the swing out cylinder and central ejection would eliminate a weakness and several complications. One could thus build a stronger and more reliable revolver for less money. Granted, reloading would be very slow but I think few people carry spare ammo for a pocket pistol anyway, I sure don't. It seems to me that people who feel the need for more than five rounds will most likely choose a high cap auto. A modernized version of the little bulldog revolvers as once built by Iver Johnson and H&R, built with better quality and materials but utilizing the simple "pull pin extraction" at an appropriate price would sell very well. In that format I'd go for a .40 or a .45.

spruce · « **Reply #2 on:** April 09, 2009, 05:36:54 AM »

My thoughts are it is an innovative concept. As always there's no way to tell if it will work as advertised until some of them get out in the hands of shooters and are shot for a while.

As to Charter revolvers in general, I own a Mag Pug (.357) and I like it. No, the fit and finish isn't as good as a S&W, but the price is somewhere around 1/3 to 1/2 the cost of S&W. As far as INDIVIDUAL specimans of any brand you might have problems with it as quality control seems to be an industry-wide problem right now and I think it's mainly due to companies trying to push as many guns out the door as they can to meet demand.

If I were ordering any new gun right now I would do so with the prior understanding (with the dealer) that I could either buy or not buy based on inspecting it when it came in. I don't see why a dealer would have a problem with that as he could surely sell most any handgun he can get.

Just my opinion, and it's worth what you paid for it!

oldfart · « **Reply #3 on:** April 10, 2009, 12:15:33 PM »

i am looking forward to getting mine, i've got one on order when they start coming in. i have a police undercover in 38spl built on the bulldog frame, and its totally reliable and lockup is tight as it gets. there are good and bad in all companys, charter makes a good revolver if your on a budget, and they will take care of you if you take care of them. and their warranty is great if you ever need it, much better than taurus and quicker too.

handi270 · « **Reply #4 on:** April 11, 2009, 10:49:52 AM »

oldfart,
did you get any idea of when they would start delivering?
would be interested in the price you were quoted, pm me if you don't want to make it public.

thanks, noel

Masterblaster1 · « **Reply #5 on:** April 12, 2009, 06:56:54 AM »

My opinion of the charter guns i have handled is that they are a full notch or two above taurus in quality and maybe a tad better than the rossi. Not a bad gun for the average joe in my opinion, most pocket guns won't be shot a whole lot anyway, I doubt I could ever wear one out in my lifetime.

44 Man · « **Reply #6 on:** April 13, 2009, 03:24:35 PM »

I have owned several Charter's over the years and have been well pleased with all of them. Excellent gun for the money. As for extraction, I wouldn't worry about it, Charter solved that in the 70's when they chambered for 9mm. They had some kind of circular wire on the extractor that popped into the extractor cut on rimless ammo. Worked good then according to those that had them. I think that is an excellent idea, a revolver in .40 to go with your other arms. Don't worry about Charter, those little guns will surprise you. 44 Man

Here's my Charter .44 bulldog.

oldfart · « **Reply #7 on:** April 13, 2009, 06:10:28 PM »

the dealer i talked to said they would be coming in this month, i talked with him today and he said his dist. told him friday it could be any day. he said he could'nt be sure but was told that they will be about the price of the police undercover, i own one of those got it about 2 months ago, paid about $300 otd then for it. he said they are at $319 + tax now, still not bad cause mine shoots really great.

handi270 · « **Reply #8 on:** April 14, 2009, 05:36:20 AM »

I have called the nearest CA dealer a couple of times last week, and went by yesterday. Not much encouragement from them, said they could not even order one at this time?? and did not know when they could.

So I may look else where or just forget about it for a while.

thanks for the info.

Post when you get yours and let us know how you like it.

bluecow · « **Reply #9 on:** April 17, 2009, 03:34:28 AM »

been thinking that i need a snud nose. 5 shot 45 acp, sign me up. had a number of charter arms over the years a like every one. but then ive had good luck with davis, raven, and love my mak.

sixgun_symphony · « **Reply #10 on:** April 25, 2009, 05:43:55 PM »

I don't want to mess with moon clips and not using moon clips on rimless cartridges is a bad idea. I would not trust them to reliably extract. You will likely catch a case below the extractor and that will greatly slow down the reload when you need it fast.

Also, If you really want rimless 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP, then go with a compact auto. You got more shots and a much faster reload.

If you really want a revolver, then go with rimmed cartridges, they're have greater case capacity and thus more potent. I would take the 255gr cast bullet of the .45 Colt over the 230gr jacketed bullet of the .45 ACP round.

coyotejoe · « **Reply #11 on:** April 26, 2009, 03:31:03 AM »

I totally agree that a rimless revolver extractor is likely to introduce problems. However, I don't believe there is any need for cartridges more "potent" than the .40 S&W or .45 ACP and I doubt than many people would care to shoot .45 Colt "Ruger loads" from an 18 ounce revolver. But that brings up another issue. The old Bulldog .44 special was recommended for only jacketed bullets not heavier than 200 grains because recoil of the light weight gun would sometimes act as an inertia bullet puller with heavy lead bullets or any bullet without a heavy roll crimp.
Auto pistol cartridges cannot be roll crimped because they headspace on the case mouth.

sixgun_symphony · « **Reply #12 on:** April 28, 2009, 04:25:17 PM »

The standard .45 Colt chambering is already more potent than the .45 ACP and .40 S&W due to having a bullet of greater mass that is going about the same speed. 255gr -vs- 230gr and 180gr respectively.

As far as using heavy lead bullets in the Charter Arms Bulldog, why not just choose a bullet design that has a crimping groove to prevent the inertial bullet pulling described?

45-70.gov · « **Reply #13 on:** April 28, 2009, 04:39:37 PM »

i like my charter 44 with 280g WFN had one for 30 years...the other is still unfired

i like the 38/357 in a small revolver

some actions are just meant to have a rimmed cartridge
why introduse a new problem

the charter does not need the moon clips
the moon clips is teh BEST reason to use those rimless rounds

but since no one else is making it is a good reason to make it

44 Man · « **Reply #14 on:** April 29, 2009, 03:07:24 AM »

coyotejoe, I also remember an older Speer manual that stated the Charter could take more modern (ie hotter) load than the old guns, but most people would not put up with the recoil from the light weight Charter. I did shoot some 300 gr cast bullets one time. I didn't hot rod them, they were loaded to a very moderate velocity. I only shot 2 rounds from the Charter and I was done. My buddy Mikie shot 3 just to prove he could shoot one more than I did, but we both had enough! No my .44 Charter carries factory Blazer 200 gr Gold Dots in it for carry or a handload equivilent for when at the range. Had to file down the front sight just a little to bring them to POI, but she shoots sweet and very accurate with those. If you live long enough, you learn a few things. 44 Man

coyotejoe · « **Reply #15 on:** April 29, 2009, 04:10:18 AM »

Quote from: sixgun_symphony on April 28, 2009, 04:25:17 PM

As far as using heavy lead bullets in the Charter Arms Bulldog, why not just choose a bullet design that has a crimping groove to prevent the inertial bullet pulling described?

I haven't tested the theory myself but Charter Arms warned against heavy bullets or lead bullets of any weight because they said they would sometimes "jump the crimp" and move forward enough to tie up the cylinder. Even hard cast bullets have a much softer surface than does a jacketed bullet and will jump the crimp more easily. My favorite load in my old Bulldog does use lead bullets, 180 and 210 grain full wadcutters, but I load light, around 800 fps and give them a heavy roll crimp. I've not experienced any problems from those loads. My point was that auto pistol rounds cannot be heavily crimped, no factory loads for autos are crimped and I'd speculate that could be a problem with .45 ACP in such a light revolver.
I do agree it makes more sense to keep revolver cartridges in revolvers and ACP's in auto pistols.

sachel.45 · « **Reply #16 on:** April 30, 2009, 05:19:15 PM »

i think there kind of intresting but id like to see them make a 9mm in a 4" barrel with adjustable sights i think id make a neat trail gun especially sice i think you can shoot .380 out of it as well

coyotejoe · « **Reply #17 on:** May 01, 2009, 01:46:15 PM »

Firing .380 ACP in a 9mm chamber is probably not a good idea since it is about .020" smaller in diameter at the base, but they do make a 4" .357 mag which can also fire .38 special if that would serve your needs.

sachel.45 · « **Reply #18 on:** May 01, 2009, 02:32:01 PM »

the charter arms website says it can shoot 380. i have a 4" .357 (gp100) and a 4" .38 (s&w model 15) so ive got that covered ive just got alot more 9mm stuff plus its a little diffrent and 9mm is cheaper

handi270 · « **Reply #19 on:** May 01, 2009, 05:06:18 PM »

Enjoying all the comments and opinions.

Looks as though this may be a long wait.

May be just as well for me as I found a Kahr CW 40 the other day and decided to buy it.
I had one and sold it to a friend sometime ago. Was sorry I did, but he really likes it so
no chance of buying it back.

It is one of the few semis I can conceal. Body type does make a difference.

noel

coyotejoe · « **Reply #20 on:** May 02, 2009, 04:28:30 AM »

Quote from: sachel.45 on May 01, 2009, 02:32:01 PM

the charter arms website says it can shoot 380. i have a 4" .357 (gp100) and a 4" .38 (s&w model 15) so ive got that covered ive just got alot more 9mm stuff plus its a little diffrent and 9mm is cheaper

The website does indeed say that, but there is no magic involved here and the .380 case is still going to be .020" smaller at the base than is a 9mm parabellum chamber. That sounds pretty dangerous to me. It reminds me of how I once sold an Enfield .38 revolver to a guy I work with. He then sold it to a relative in Arkansas after shooting up the ammo I had given him and reported to me that they had to do extensive work on it to get it to fire. That puzzled me because it had worked very well for me and he said he had no problems with the ammo I gave him. Then suddenly I realized they had been firing .380 ACP ammo since it was marked with the British cartridge designation ".380 caliber"! They had filed the hammer to get enough pin protrusion to reach the .380 ACP rounds. He never explained how they managed the extractor!