(2) 58 Caliber Ball for 12 Ga.

[T-Rex]

I've got a 2 3/4" full choke shotgun that I would like to load with slugs or a dual ball load.  I cast the Lee 7/8 and 1 oz key drive slugs, but hesitate to shoot them in this particular shotgun.

My question is:  Does someone have a recipe for a 12 ga 2 3/4" load with the .575 lead balls?  Or... Is it possible to run my slugs through a sizing die to make them more compatible for the full choke?

[rickyp]

I personally wouldn't shoot a slug trough a full choke, some say it is OK other say it will harm the barrel. I would rather take the side of caution on this issue and not do it.

[Swampman]

The slugs will not hurt the choke.  I've shot a ton of them.

[rickyp]

he is using cast slugs, he did not say what he was casting them out of.  if he is using pure soft lead he MAY be OK but if he is using the same stuff for center fire bullets he will not be so good

 The soft lead will swige down to go trough a full choke but it will increase the pressure, How much depends on many thing just some are: his load, how hard the "pure" lead really is (lead is not always so pure) type of slug, (The lee has a driving band in the cavity so they will not swage down as easy as a hollow base slug) condition of the barrel and choke tub.  what is the constriction of the full choke and even the shotgun it's self a gas operated simi auto will vent the pressure to operate the slide a H&R single shot has to take the full pressure of the fired shell.

IT is his gun and your gun is yours you are free to do as you wish  with them if you chose to shoot a slug trough your full choke have at it I will not do it with mine.

[mcwoodduck]

I did a two 58 caliber round ball 20 ga load.  but was not really impressed with my two load buck shot.
I also had an idea to stick a 58 ball inside the cavity of a foster style slugg and load the round using some felt wadding to a 1 and 1/2 OZ load.  as the 58 balls are around 230 grains or just a little over 1/2 OZ.
But again was not real happy with the 25 yard hole it made and how far it went through the tree.

[T-Rex]

I am aware of the problems trying to squeeze a slug through that full choke.  That is exactly why I am trying to get some opinions here.  That Lee key drive is also my concern.  That is why I am wondering if I can shave it down from about .690 to a suitable diameter with a sizing die.  I have a lot of lead to choose from.  I plan on starting with the softest pure lead and go a little harder based on actual results.

The particular gun in question is a Russian Saiga-12.  It has an extremely hard and heavy barrel, with hard chrome plating, to boot.  I expect it can take a bunch of abuse, even though I have been known to take that abuse a little too far.  This time, I plan on taking a more conservative approach.

[rickyp]

The lee slug is designed to be used with a wad and shot of of fully rifled barrel, You will not get good accuracy shooting it trough a smooth barrel. The wad acts as a sabot and gas seal. That is why they can have the bar in the back of it. Normal foster style slugs have a hollow base and made from very soft lead. when fired the base expands and seals the bore. since they have a hollow base the can be sweged back down trough the choke even thought it will increase pressure. The Lee slug will not swige down as easy and if you use anything other them pure lead it will be  even harder to squeeze it trough the tight choke. This will raise pressure very quickly I doubt it will be enough to blow the shot gun up but it can do bad things to the barrel and choke.

IF you want to use this slug I feel the best thing to do is buy a H&R slug gun for a few hundred dollars and save your scatter gun for upland use.

[T-Rex]

So much for the Lee slug!  Evidently no one has tryed to size them down for that choke.  Well, I am not married to that particular slug.  I do use them in my cylinder bore guns, but don't have a problem finding another mold of the true Foster (hollow base) design.  I might even consider having the choke opened up a bit, even if it means re-chroming the bore.

I'm still interested in the round balls.  Any comments?

[rickyp]

what are your intentions for the round balls?

I use a load of 000 buck in my 410 encore. They are very devastating to smaller critters. but the range has to be close. they open up real fast and at 30 yards or so. it will be the same with the longer barrel shotgun.

in the old days they use to use a buck and ball load it was a slug loaded offer a few buck shot. it worked OK but not at longer ranges. There is a reason you do not see many loads like this, that is they do not work well unless you have a very special need for them.

[mcwoodduck]

What hull are you planning on loading?
What powders do you have on hand?
and what wads do you have?
I will play with some componets this wekkend and see what I can build that will keep the two round balls centered.
You may have to use a buffer media. 
I thought the two 577 balls would be perfect for a 1oz load out of a 20 Ga (.615)
But you have a 12 ga (.729)  even with the full choke choking it down by .015 you are still going to have a lot of slop in the barrel and with the G forces pushing back on the lead into the wad they will deform (assuming they are together) and will cant in the barrel.  Unless you design a special wad that will hold 2 .577 balls in tandom with some cussion between them.
What do you want them for?  Three gun?  Are you thinking of having a double slug that will increase your chances of hits? 
If you want a round ball you may try .69 and cut the peddles off of a standard wad.
You may try loading a wad into an empty hull.  Center the ball in it and add a little hot wax to keep the ball in place.  Add a felt 20Ga disk and the second ball and more wax.  then gently cut the waxy wad from the empty hull and gently insert it over your favorite 1 1/4 oz load. 

[T-Rex]

My first choice was a slug.  Primarily it is a home defense load.  I already load #1 Buck, but originally wanted a load that would double for deer.  Here in Minnesota multiple projectiles are not allowed for deer, but a double projectile would be great for predators.

Right now I have Win AA and Rem Premier hulls on hand.  I have no problem picking up a straight hull if necessary for my new load.  Could be Federal Gold Metal, or whatever.  I stock Win 209 and CCI 209M primers.  Powder on hand is Green Dot, Blue Dot, IMR 4350, Alliant 2400, and Hodgedon HS-6.  Wads are the white Win AA and shorter Reds.

The reason for the smaller balls, (even though I could easily go bigger) is that I figured that the ball, and wad need to squeeze through that choke.

So, even though I have a lot on hand, I am willing to acquire whatever I need to make up a functional load.

I have heard of a load that places a row (3) of #1 Buck, and the larger 58 or 60 caliber ball sits on top.  With buffer, that would center the big ball.

To explain my intentions a little farther, I don't want to divide up the available energy of my shot into a lot of smaller balls.  One or two big balls ought to do the job out to about 30 yards just fine.

[T-Rex]

Regarding the Lee Key Drive slugs, I contacted Lee directly, and their response is:

Our slug molds have been tested in shotguns with full chokes, and
they are safe to use provided you adhere to all the standard safety
practices.  We recommend pure, dead soft lead only for shotgun
slugs.  We have designed the correct shrinkage into the mold
dimensions, so if cast from a harder alloy the slug will be slightly
oversized (and too hard!).

While this is a little reassuring from a safety point of view, I will still need to test the function in terms of accuracy.

[.45 COLT]

IF you post a load please list where you got it from.
I will only let published loads from reputable sources


BTW, I shoot LEE slugs from a Full-Choked barrel, no harm to the choke and with pretty good accuracy.

DC

[T-Rex]

Thanks, .45 Colt.  That is exactly the information I was looking for.  It even utilizes the components I already have on hand.

Lucky I got to your post before the hall monitor.

Just a quick reminder of reloading safety.  We all know not to use any load that has not been verified against a published source.  Even then, it is safest to start well below the maximum.  In a case like this, where  a published source is not likely to be found, I intend to compare similar loads, and start at least 10% below, and closely watch for signs of over pressure.

[jeager106]

Dixie Slugs
Link:http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=77&t=134298
Shows about a 2.5" spread at 40 yards using Dixie's Tri-Ball load.
I can duplicate this load but I don't recommend it unless you really have advanced skills in specialty s.g. loads.
My 3 inch Tri-Ball copies spread about 3 inches from a .665 tube using 20 gauge balls.
They actually mic about .62.
You need straight walled cases such as Fiocchi, or Multi-hulls and wads for straight walled cases.These Tri-Ball loads are awesome in effectivness. Three 20 gauge balls for every pull of the trigger.
Legally it IS classsed as buckshot.
315 grains EACH; 600 to 700 pounds feet of energy EACH and they hit the intended target simultainiously (for all practical purposes).
Google Dixie Slugs and view the awesome slugs and Tri-ball loads.
Dixie does NOT over charge on ammo. In fact it's on par with Hastings slugs at $8.00 to $10.00 a 5 pack.
By the way. This Tri-Ball laod requires your s.g. be equipped with good adj. sights for the darn near rifle like accuracy.
Oh, give up on the .58 balls. The .62 work so much better.

[45-70.gov]

why  not just  use  a ball  just smaller  than  your choke

and  patch  it  like a muzzle  loader  to  fit?

i   use OO [not OOO]  patched  in a 38  casing  for back  porch practice
just ram  rod  with  a pencil......no  powder...patched  with old t-shirt

just  2 balls  2 patches.....in  a shotgun  shell.....old  denum  patch?

[Kmrere42]

Hi all,


I was thinking about the multi-ball loading and I think that there would be a problem unless some kind of buffer is used between the two balls.  When fired the inertia of the load would cause the two balls to flatten together and would not fly very straight without spin stabilization from a rifled choke.  Hard lead could be used but then the choke could be an issue.



Just my thoughts,



Paul