Author Topic: Message has changed. What's your conspiracy theory?  (Read 2560 times)

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Offline OR-E-Gun Bill

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Message has changed. What's your conspiracy theory?
« on: April 13, 2009, 05:02:48 PM »
The topic has changed. Please feel free to express your theories on conspiracy or whatever else is on your mind today.

Offline BBF

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Re: New Message from the Hornady Website
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2009, 04:01:41 AM »
Dang !!

It is good to know that some businesses are doing great within the country.
What is the point of Life if you can't have fun.

Offline Bigeasy

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Re: New Message from the Hornady Website
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2009, 04:14:35 AM »
This is all as a result of "panic buying" by the gun owning public.  I have seen it before, when Clinton was elected, with the first assault weapon ban, but nothing on scale with what is now happening.  It's not just a couple thousand "gun nuts" panic buying assault weapon stuff, it's millions of every day Americans buying any thing not nailed down.  Rabbit guns, .38spl target loads, bird shot for reloading, it don't matter...  People are scared of what they believe is coming.  You would think the powers that be would take a step back and look at whats going on, and be concerned that people feel that way....

Larry
Personal opinion is a good thing, and everyone is entitled to one.  The hard part is separating informed opinion from someone who is just blowing hot air....

Offline Blackhawker

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Re: New Message from the Hornady Website
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2009, 04:59:31 AM »
Posting deleted...wasn't what I meant to say. 

Sorry if that came out wrong!

Offline BBF

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Re: New Message from the Hornady Website
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2009, 05:12:47 AM »
Blackhawk:
 Somehow and not sure why ;) I think your post will not resonate all to well here ::)
What is the point of Life if you can't have fun.

Offline Bart Solo

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Re: New Message from the Hornady Website
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2009, 05:41:06 AM »
I think there are a lot of folks buying guns who are scared of Barack Obama, but I don't think that is the total answer.  I suspect many people buying guns now are scared the country is about to fall apart. They are afraid they might have to use them on their neighbors.

I think it is time we all took a collective deep breath and realized that we are all Americans and we have to hang together or life in the future is going to be brutal, short and ugly. 

While the Europeans were embracing Hitler, Stalin and the fascists our parents and grandparents hung together. They didn't run around hoping for America to fail. They rolled up their sleeves and went to work.  Folks it is time we went to work.

 

Offline Graybeard

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Re: New Message from the Hornady Website
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2009, 05:47:52 AM »
In my opinion Blackhawker is just out of touch with reality. He lives in a fantasy land where all is right and good in the world and the government is our friend. They really mean us no harm and all they are doing to take away our rights and freedoms really is for our own good.

There is a massive effort underway to take away soveirnty of all nations and substitute in place a single one world government controlled by the super rich. They are making huge gains all over the world and are very close to realizing their dream. If they can over throw the US it will all fall into place. They are very close to there they have their man in the white house now and the push is now starting to register our guns. That's ALWAYS the first step to confiscation.


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Offline Blackhawker

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Re: New Message from the Hornady Website
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2009, 05:54:09 AM »
Blackhawk:
 Somehow and not sure why ;) I think your post will not resonate all to well here ::)

Maybe it just went over wrong.  All I'm trying to say is that people should be a little reasonable.  Buying up everything on the shelf isn't going to save our gun rights.  Ironically, it's seeming to blow up in their face and making it worse.  If everyone (the gun nuts as referred to by Bigeasy) will just sit tight, the whole thing will blow over.  As I mentioned in a different thread...put the money into the NRA or other 2nd amendment foundations.  Every man for himself certainly isn't going to overthrow a "new world order".

I say we have at least three years before the economy even begins to look like it's going to do better.  That leaves not even one year for Obama after that.  At that time, will he ban guns???  Perhaps not because people will be so disgusted with him by then that what he says won't mean squat.  (maybe or maybe not???)  We just have to hang in there and see what happens.  It's quite likely he won't be re-elected.

Offline Blackhawker

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Re: New Message from the Hornady Website
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2009, 06:16:39 AM »
OOPs....sorry, maybe that's what went wrong!  I mis-read Big Easy's post.  I thought he said it's a FEW gun nuts....which is what I think it is.  I don't think everyone in America is out buying new guns.  Sorry guys, this is why it seemed so confusing and it probably didn't go over well. 

I DO tend to believe its just a few people doing this....and not all.  Back in the early Clinton days when a similar thing happend, there were new gun owners showing up like crazy yet the people that already owned guns weren't buying up anything new really.

Anyway, that's just my opinion.  Sorry I confused things there and now I can see how MY confusion may have gotten under some people's skin.  I don't think EVERYONE is a gun nut....just a few scared people.  I knew one back in the Clinton days and he bought up everything he could yet was never a gun owner prior to that.  It was a little overdone to say the least.

Mabye I should delete what I wrote above....it's not what I meant...it was a response to what I thought I read and now it sounds off the wall.

Offline wncchester

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Re: New Message from the Hornady Website
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2009, 07:54:32 AM »
"It is good to know that some businesses are doing great within the country."

Certainly it's not "everyone in America" buying up guns, ammo and components.  Less than half the population even has any interest in firearms.  Less than half of those who do would feel they need more.  But that obviously still means a LOT of people are buying in anticipation of bad times ahead.  Not that's NOT a foolish concern considering what occured last November.

All firearms related businesses are doing quite well since the Democrats gained total control.  Surely no gun owner could think that's a good thing for us.  ?? 

Okay, so not all of them are "liberals" but 95% are giving the rest a bad name.  Those, along with a few country club liberal Republicans are all that's needed to destroy not only our Constitutionally recognised gun rights (those rights  are NOT a list of goverment granted priviliges that can easily be taken away by the same goverment, as liberals suggest)  but a lot of others as well.  Such as the right to private property, including our money.  (Liberal politicians feel ALL money is government's and feel quite nice about themselves when they let us keep some of it to provide for our familes.)

It's certainly true that NOTHING they have done so far has any potential for "stimulating' any thing about the economy.  This year, only massive transfers of national debt (pretend) money has been granted to reinforce various liberal support groups and causes.  There is no "economic stimulus" at all but a LOT of money is being handed out!  Even the cash plans for next year include precious little related to any slight potential for economic growth.

Lets "get to work".  Yeah.  BO and company want you to understand that the professional welfare recipients of the nation, Mexico and the rest of the world are depending on YOU to work!  You need do nothing more, they will see to it that everyone else gets a "fair" share of your efforts!  And they have not less than 3 years and 8 months of virtually unrestrained political power to see to it.  I have no doubt they do not intend to waste their first chance in 70 years to destoy our economic system, impoverish the nation and make us totally depandant on goverment control.

And anyone who doesn't think our gun rights (priviliges, as they see it) are on their table, if not their plates at this moment, is delusional.
Common sense is an uncommon virtue

Offline skb2706

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Re: New Message from the Hornady Website
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2009, 09:06:44 AM »
To read the Hornady post and come away with a warm friendly feeling is a joke. If you cut thru the crxp he is saying "we will sell you parts and dies and whatever but we can't sell you bullets". Now unless you have some other useful purpose for you handloading equipment, that my friend, is a joke.

Offline helotaxi

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Re: New Message from the Hornady Website
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2009, 04:08:16 AM »
Warm feeling?  No.  But it isn't the gloom and doom that you're talking about in regards to bullets.  It's not like they quit making bullets or selling them.  They are only saying that they are not selling direct to consumers.  At the same time they're shipping record numbers of bullets.  There are MORE bullets leaving the factory.  That is at least not a bad thing.

Offline carbineman

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Re: New Message from the Hornady Website
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2009, 04:25:50 AM »
This excerpt is from a small ammo manufacturing business I am familiar with here in Wisconsin.

<I talked to one of the OEM sales reps I deal with from a large ammo mfg that has been around for a long time. We got to talking the other day. We got on the subject of primers, he tells me that they make in one factory 4 million primers in one shift. They work 3 shifts, 7 days a week. He also said they have not had a positive primer inventory since '06. Now of course not all of the primers they make go on the commercial market fo reloaders, but this gives you an idea of the volume of what one manufacturer makes. With this in mind makes you think differently about the shortage of components.> End of quote

Kinda tells the story of the whole industry in my opinion.

Offline skarke

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Re: New Message from the Hornady Website
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2009, 04:35:49 AM »
Things are changing.  Nobody on our side sits in the locked strategy rooms of our supposedly "public" government, and can therefore state confidently that he knows with certainty what the future holds.

Therefore, I try to take what powerful people have said in context.  In other words, excluding political hyperbole, what have the now powerful said in the past that will predict their current and future actions away from the political stump.

Calmly, rationally, away from the stump, our current leaders have stated with utter clarity their goals of reducing gun ownership, access, and use.  Yes, you hunters, that means you too.

So if you think that we are getting a pass, think again.  Rmember the metaphor "the calm before the storm?"  I see the clouds upon the horizon, and I hope that each of you do too.

  
Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn’t pass it on to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children what it was once like in the United States when men were free.  Ronaldus Maximus

Offline carbineman

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Re: New Message from the Hornady Website
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2009, 05:44:33 AM »
Things are changing.  Nobody on our side sits in the locked strategy rooms of our supposedly "public" government, and can therefore state confidently that he knows with certainty what the future holds.

Therefore, I try to take what powerful people have said in context.  In other words, excluding political hyperbole, what have the now powerful said in the past that will predict their current and future actions away from the political stump.

Calmly, rationally, away from the stump, our current leaders have stated with utter clarity their goals of reducing gun ownership, access, and use.  Yes, you hunters, that means you too.

So if you think that we are getting a pass, think again.  Rmember the metaphor "the calm before the storm?"  I see the clouds upon the horizon, and I hope that each of you do too.

  
I agree, and have and am continuing to prepare for a world that is unlike the one we presently live in. The warning signs of an impending heart attack are there.

Offline Siskiyou

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Re: New Message from the Hornady Website
« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2009, 11:15:02 AM »
Hornady is a good outfit

I respect what Hornady is doing, they have always been an up front outfit.  I have been loading Hornady bullets for over fifty years, followed by Speer, Remington, and Nosler.   Hornady has made good bullets, and improved their designs over the years.  They expanded into the loaded ammunition business and I think reloading tools came later when they bought out Pacific.
 
A quick check yesterday disclosed that one dealer had one box or .284 diameter Speer bullets, and a few boxes of Barnes .22 diameter bullets.  A check on the Internet shows that dealers are backordered on Remington, Winchester, Hornady, Speer, and Sierra bullets.  The basic cup and core bullets are in short supply.  It appears the more expensive bullets can be found.

The availability of reloading tools is a mixed big.  I was in a shop yesterday that had a few low demand dies sets, but no presses, scales, or trimmers.  Online resources stock levels seem to very day to day.  It is good to known that Hornaday has some tools, Midway shows a lot of Hornady tools out of stock.

How do you sort out the Whiner from a true loader and purchaser of component on a regular bases.  A friend has been doing a lot of complaining, but he does not own a reloading tool.  He has preferred buying his ammunition.  I have taught him to load at my bench and he is more than happy to shoot any ammunition given to him.  He has not taken his rifle out and shot it in a number of years.  To hear him complain you would think that he loads a lot of ammunition.  The bottomline is that he likes to complain.  I place him in the Archie Bunker school of thought and action.  In fact I told him to go home the other day because I had loading to do.

Hornady like GE is in business to make a profit.  The key to Hornady is that it has always been serving sportsmen.  In recent years it has been a leader in the development of new cartridges along with Marlin and Ruger.   

Did the industry think the election like Christmas would generate an increase in sales?  Did their crystal ball predict the outcome of the election, the reaction to the election, and current economic situation?  Let us not forget the impact of two wars, and the demands for raw material that China, and India have on critical materials the last few years.  The demand has been so great that the theft of copper from work sites, schools, and other business has over whelmed law enforcement.  Communities have suffered the loss of electricity because thieves have stolen cooper components.  Had reloaders reduced their purchases of bullets because of the increase cost of copper before the panic of 2008?

This current situation started reaching the critical point just after Christmas. 
If I was not such a tight wad, and had a better crystal ball I would have bought a few pounds of powder 12-months ago.  We had warning signs earlier because of the cooper shortage, and the large military orders for small arms ammunition.  Our first clear warning came on 9/11/2001.  We have had a lot of time to stock up, but many of us failed to do so.  If buying components on the civilian market had increased steadily manufacturing capability would have increase with the demand. I have read about the shortage of civilian ammunition and components during WWII.  More than one home bullet maker was using empty 22-rimfire cases to make small caliber jackets.
Manufactures normally base production on passed history and best estimate of the future market place.  Few predicted the current buying spree in a failing economy. 
I want consistency and precision in my bullets.  I am sure that Hornady wants to provide the consumer with bullets that are consistent and precision.
I know from experience that it takes time to hire new employees and train them.   You can expect some to fail drug test, or leave the job in a short time.  In an industry where people are working extra shifts, and weekends many 9-to 5 types jump ship.  Before adding employees you need floor space and equipment for them to produce the product.  It takes time to do this.  If you are looking for skilled employees it gets tougher, and I suspect that in Grand Island with an unemployment rate far below the national average, and a relative small population recruiting the right skill set can be tough.  Just because a guy likes to shoot bullets does not make him a bullet maker or a skilled worker.  I think that it is difficult to launch major growth in a short period of time.

Judging the future market is tougher, if you were a jobber would you ship a half a million dollars worth of merchandise to businesses on the verge or bankruptcy?   When businesses owe millions of dollars more than they have on hand, manufactures cannot afford to front them the products.  They will be lucky to get a few cents on the dollar in bankruptcy. 

I blame myself for any shortage of bullets, powder, primer, and cases I have.  I stopped and stare at the components on dealers shelves and offered on the internet.  If I was decisive and bought those two jugs of powder and I would be in great shape, now.  Rather than wallow in pity, and cry in my powder blaming the other guy I will take the blame for not acting. 

There is a learning process to effectively using a gps.  Do not throw your compass and map away!

Boycott: San Francisco, L.A., Oakland, and City of Sacramento, CA.

Offline GRIMJIM

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Re: New Message from the Hornady Website
« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2009, 12:08:45 PM »
Why worry about bullets when primers are "out of stock, no backorder"

Unless you want remington electric or whatever they're called for 130 something bucks for a thousand.
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Offline v-man

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Re: New Message from the Hornady Website
« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2009, 02:00:07 PM »
It's not just bullets and primers folks, I have been waiting almost 2 months for a couple sets of common caliber reloading dies from Hornady (through Midway).  Still no release date.

Offline GRIMJIM

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Re: New Message from the Hornady Website
« Reply #18 on: April 15, 2009, 02:53:56 PM »
My friend also. 30-06 dies on backorder for two months.
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IF GOD DIDN'T WANT US TO EAT ANIMALS, WHY DID HE MAKE THEM OUT OF MEAT?

Offline beerbelly

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Re: New Message from the Hornady Website
« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2009, 02:32:35 AM »
With all of the on-line stores( Mid-south, Midway and such) being out of most all reloading components, this must really be hurting their bottom line.
 I know that I have a few items I need or want outside of reloading, but with the high cost of shipping now days, I will not order it until some of the reloading gear on my wish list is in stock. So I can hold down the shipping costs.
                                Beerbelly

Offline Siskiyou

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Re: New Message from the Hornady Website
« Reply #20 on: April 16, 2009, 06:14:39 AM »
BeerBelly:  I have been maintaining a folder on my start up screen with a list of reloading items I need, or think I need.  It took two orders to zero it out, but it stands ready for any additions.  I agree with you that shipping cost along with any handling cost adds to the overall price.  On small items I let them add up so can avoid handling cost.  I see no point of adding primers, and powder to the list at this time.

The items I would like to get are out of stock and I am not going to find them at a gun show, or online.  I am waiting to hear from a brother if he can make the trip to a show this weekend.  If he can make it I will go because of the family connection, if he cannot go I might reconsider the trip. 
There is a learning process to effectively using a gps.  Do not throw your compass and map away!

Boycott: San Francisco, L.A., Oakland, and City of Sacramento, CA.

Offline Bart Solo

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Re: New Message from the Hornady Website
« Reply #21 on: April 16, 2009, 07:23:04 AM »
Based on everything I have read the gun shows seem to be the focus of real price gouging on reloading components.  I wouldn't buy at one of those unless I was out.

Offline v-man

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Re: New Message from the Hornady Website
« Reply #22 on: April 16, 2009, 07:56:32 AM »
Not to stray too far off topic but over the past 20+ years I've seen the gun shows go from being great places to find good deals to nothing more than a gathering of dealers making it possible to get skroood multiple times in one place. Also, way more non-gun military stuff than I care to see though others may have a real interest in it.

Offline skarke

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Re: New Message from the Hornady Website
« Reply #23 on: April 16, 2009, 11:40:55 AM »
The only good deals I've had at a gun show lately have been from individuals, not dealers, and like others have said, these guys are really making hay on components when the sun shines, or where it don't :o, whichever way you want to look at it.
Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn’t pass it on to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children what it was once like in the United States when men were free.  Ronaldus Maximus

Offline rickt300

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Re: New Message from the Hornady Website
« Reply #24 on: April 20, 2009, 04:58:43 AM »
I think people are already disgusted with him (Obama).  I think people are buying componenets and ammo not because they think he will ban guns but because many think the way he is handling things is foolhardy and dangerous for the nation both from outside and within, never have I seen a more corrupt president or one work so far outside governments constitutional boundries. He lies to us, gives our money to the rich, talks America down while outside America, shakes hands with little dictators while smiling (Chavez).  He has turned our country into a simmering powder keg.  I can easily see why he might just be removed from office prematurely.  Hornady has not said they will stop selling bullets, just that they are having a hard enough time keeping up with their retailers and don't have time to fool around with small orders.
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Offline v-man

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Re: New Message from the Hornady Website
« Reply #25 on: April 20, 2009, 08:34:32 AM »
Bill,
I think the thread took a very predictable and logical path. The clear concensus is that the message of "hope" at the beginning is very suspect to say the least. The experiences of many of us who contributed seems to lead most to the conclusion that things aren't even close to gettin' rosy yet no matter what the fine people at Hornady may say. The subject of ammo shortages from the hoarding of ammo, and price gouging by the retailers, whether perceived or real, is consistant with the topic as is the broader subject about the difficulty of finding real deals at the shows. You started a good thread that got a lot of friendly responses and opinions. I think that's the point of all this so congrats on a job well done.

Offline MZ5

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Re: New Message from the Hornady Website
« Reply #26 on: April 20, 2009, 11:36:27 AM »
It was nice of them to say they're producing record quantities of things, and nice of them to say they're adding production capacity.  The thing about no more direct sales of low/no-stock items merely means that they're protecting their dealers & distributors.  Nothing shocking, nothing abnormal, nothing even noteworthy excepting that it was nice of them to communicate with their users.

Offline Cornbelt

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Re: New Message from the Hornady Website
« Reply #27 on: April 26, 2009, 09:09:43 AM »
This has been an interesting thread. No doubt about people "stocking up", for one reason or another. I'll be glad when everyone gets enough, if they are able, so that the price can go down and we can get back to "maintaining a stock".   Considering the current political situation, if people grow weary of sincerity-without-credibility, and the "0" office has a new occupant, the stockers will still have their stock to use. If, on the other hand, a majority of the voting public is not discerning enough to see through the smoke, we might have another 4 yrs. of the same, not to mention the Secretary of State making a bid after that. A lot can change in 16 yrs. And that's a lot to stockpile. It might be worthy of a strategy, such as "What is the minimum"? That way, even if things become readily available, a person wouldn't have to bust the budget to function. I remember the war sotrys about rationing, and the more savvy folks, recalling experinces from WW1, layed in a moderate supply of sugar, coffee, shotgun shells, or gasoline. Being a depression, they couldn't afford much, but it helped to tide them over; ironically through a period where money was more available, but products weren't; the opposite of their situation before. One fellow even bought a db ml with a couple gal. ea of pdr & shot. They found it under his house after he died of old age. Shotgun shells, it seems, were never in that short of supply. But he WAS going to hunt, one way or another!

Offline Turk

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Re: New Message from the Hornady Website
« Reply #28 on: May 06, 2009, 08:51:54 AM »
Concerning the Hornady web site what they are doing is what makes good business sense and that is keeping their distributor/dealer base intact and expanding etc. to meet sales.
 
Something you can do if you purchase from Midwayusa is to use the remind me e-mail option.  Once the item is in stock you’ll receive e-mail when in stock.  But don’t wait around to order as I received an email on a Friday and thought I’d wait till Sat. to order but surprise their stock was gone Sat. afternoon.  Yes you will end up paying more for shipping small orders but I’ve gotten different bullets for a test I was doing on my RRA Predator Purist.

MY MAIN CONCERN
Guys we should be more concerned about who’s running the House and the Senate than the President.  Yes the President and VP have a lot crazy ideas and is way too liberal for me  but look where the laws are made this bunch really scares me.  My only hope is the Blue Dog Democrats will vote their hearts not their party.

Turk

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Offline rickt300

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Re: Message from Hornady
« Reply #29 on: May 08, 2009, 05:25:09 AM »
It looks to me like all the democrats are playing lockstep liberal fascism right now, I am disgusted with them too.
I have been identified as Anti-Federalist, I prefer Advocate for Anarchy.