Author Topic: 450 Marlin VS. 45-70 Gov. (Read 7904 times)

PJ · « **on:** November 21, 2002, 01:41:49 PM »

Hey, look at me I'm the first to post on here.

Anyway back to the topic is the 450 that much better or is the tried and true 45-70 every bit as good ?

KN · « **Reply #1 on:** November 21, 2002, 03:42:15 PM »

Ballistically they can be loaded equally, The 450 was designed so that you cant put that large of a load in your old trapdoor. There are only a few ammo makers that produce top end loads for the 45-70, and they would most probably destroy the old springfields. But if you're rolling your own then you'll gain nothing from the 450.

PJ · « **Reply #2 on:** November 22, 2002, 02:32:05 PM »

Thank you I have always liked the 45-70 thank's again.
PJ

470NitroExpress · « **Reply #3 on:** November 24, 2002, 02:49:07 PM »

I have a Marlin Guide Gun in 450 Marlin and it suits me just fine. But, if I had to do it over again, I would go with the 45-70. The 450 Marlin is just too hard to find in your average gun store and you can buy 45-70 Ammo that is just as hot as the 450 (Buffalo Bore, Garret).

coug2wolfs · « **Reply #4 on:** December 10, 2002, 04:27:53 AM »

The 450 was born and bred for the man who does not rload but wants hosspower available over the counter. They did it, but of course there is a price tag.

Either, with hopped up loads kicks like 10 Russian mules. Neither is a long range number. Both are devastating killers close up.

As mentioned, components are far and away easier to get for the 45-70, and, less expensive.

Me, I'd go with the 45-70, but that's me. If we all thought alike, believed the same stuff, this would indeed be a boring world :wink:

Coug

southern utah · « **Reply #5 on:** December 10, 2002, 06:24:59 PM »

bought my 1895m GG for $325 a few years ago and the noise was to much with the ports. Just traded it for a MR series with 22 inch barrel and NO ports. It was an extra $100. but I didn't feel right chopping the guide gun barrel off to get rid of the ports. I hope the noise is livable for hunting, the M series sucked.

thomas · « **Reply #6 on:** January 10, 2003, 05:52:47 PM »

PJ the 450 marlin brass is made to handle magnum pressure for which the 45-70 cannot handle. Sort of like the way you use 375 win brass to make you 7-30 brass. it is just plain stronger .

Tom

Joel · « **Reply #7 on:** January 11, 2003, 04:23:12 AM »

:shock: According to my Hornady manual, the 45/70 with a 500 gr bullet can be loaded to within 300 fps of the Win 458. How much more magnum do you want? Fired some "Ruger" 300 gr loads(2400 fps) in my 8.2 lb NEF, an the recoil was way beyond what I'd care to handle, I'll stick to 2200 fps an below. The Marlin's aren't much heavier, if as heavy, as my NEF so far as I can tell, how much more pressure the 450 cases can handle over the 45/70's is pretty moot unless your sensitivity to recoil approachs the I'm dead level.

Lawdog · « **Reply #8 on:** January 12, 2003, 11:55:29 AM »

As I stated before on another thread when I first started to build my Ruger No. 1 in .450 Marlin I asked Hornady technicians many questions and one I asked was which cartridge, case wise, was stronger? They wrote me back, I still have the letters, with the statement that in the cases they produce the .450 Marlin case was thicker and stronger than the .45-70 cases they produce. I do know this that a friend at our gun club has a Ruger No. 1 in .45-70 and his cases stretch more and he gets fewer number of reloads out of each case than I do. The .45-70 was and is a great ‘black powder cartridge’ but if you want a modern cartridge then the choice is simple, go with the .450 Marlin. Lawdog

Buckeye · « **Reply #9 on:** March 05, 2003, 01:37:06 PM »

Go with the 45/70 you"ll need to re load ethier; unless your happy with the one single factoy loading for te .450 that uses a 350gr. bullet .
PMC has a 350gr. cartridge for the 45/70 that matches the .450 load.
Myself I use 53gr.s of IMR 3031 packed behind a 405gr. rem. bullet out of a 18.5 in . barrel it moves just a hair over 1800 fps.
Marlin should have made a .41 cartridge based on the 45/70 ; instead of the .450 .

Yukon Jack · « **Reply #10 on:** March 05, 2003, 04:46:32 PM »

No animal in the world is going to know the difference. You want magnum performance from the 45/70 but don't reload? There's always Garrett and Buffalo Bore factory loads. I own neither, but either can be loaded so near the other that they are practically the same. Get a 400 grain 458 slug moving at around 1800-2000 fps and its academic, no animal will spit the bullet back at you. More than enough punkin for animal on this continent and neither are ideal for long shots at unwounded animals. Shoot I'd even through the 444 and 405 into the mix. For all practical purposes they the same. Only on paper is there a difference. :wink:

retiree · « **Reply #11 on:** June 28, 2003, 05:48:33 PM »

Let anyone with one of the .450 guns shoot some of the Garrett cartridges in a 45/70 model. THEN tell me how much stronger that the .450 is. Garret doesn't make .450 loads because he couldn't get any extra performance out of them.

NRA life member
VHA life member
North American hunting club life member

Cabin4 · « **Reply #12 on:** July 02, 2003, 01:23:25 AM »

Don't waist your time with the 450. Go with the 45/70.

45-70 factory ammo is much more available, in greater variaty an less expensive than the 450. You can get 450 performance out of a 45-70, even in factory loads from Buffalo Bore and Garrett.

As much as I like Marlin Rifle Co. and Hornady, the 450 is really a marketing gimmik for those who don't know enough about the 45-70, its history, what ammo is available and its capability.

The 450 was a way for Marlin and Hornady to advertise, for little cost a "New Product & New Cartridge". It was a great way to get thier names out some more on the TV shows and guns & ammo magazines for free !

Thats ALL, the 450 is, advertising !!

KN · « **Reply #13 on:** July 02, 2003, 11:41:03 AM »

THATS NOT ALL TRUE!!! The cartriges fit beter in the plastic boxes. See there is a reason to go 450. Just kiddin, KN

444marlin · « **Reply #14 on:** July 08, 2003, 02:29:55 PM »

hey I've got an idea forget them both and go with the .444 :-D ok now lets see how fast I can dodge the rocks and bottles. :eek:

Cabin4 · « **Reply #15 on:** July 09, 2003, 04:45:10 AM »

444marlin,

Theirs nothing wrong with the 444. It just that the 45-70 is a bit bigger and that always adds something to it !

What can I say ?

PJ · « **Reply #16 on:** July 09, 2003, 05:44:17 AM »

Well, I went with the 45-70Gov. and I already have a 444.Now do any of you guys have some good loadings for this new beast.Would like to use 300's,350's and 400 grain slugs

dodge · « **Reply #17 on:** July 10, 2003, 02:20:37 AM »

With the Hornady 300 gr HP I use 46 grs. of IMR 4198 with CCI 200 primers. Out of my rifle I get 1850 fps and groups of 1 1/2" or smaller. This is a very clean load. I just bought some Hornady 350 gr FN and haven't had the chance to work up a load for it.

1GLOCK · « **Reply #18 on:** July 11, 2003, 06:07:58 AM »

A friend of mine just loaded me up some 45-70 bear loads. 1795fps. 405gr fp bullet, Ill have to ask him the charge size. I can tell you this though, WOW!! They hit like a truck on both ends of my little 1895gg. Dodge, where do you live? Im in Rixford PA.

rpseven · « **Reply #19 on:** June 01, 2004, 01:30:57 PM »

I have a 15" 450 marlin pistol barrel for my encore. It's a new barrel it's only had about 10 rounds through it. I gave a $120 for it. It sure is a hand cannon.

Con · « **Reply #20 on:** June 01, 2004, 03:46:36 PM »

In a Marlin SS 45/70 my working load this year is a 405gr jacketed projectile infront of 55gr AR2208 (Varget). Moves out the barrel at 1780fps and makes the gun jiggle quite a bit! With the 300gr projectiles I use AR2207 (H4198) and can load anywhere from 1700fps to 2200fps depending on circumstances and how I'm feeling.
Cheers...
Con

moosehead · « **Reply #21 on:** June 01, 2004, 03:53:36 PM »

Heck with both of them...Go with the 458 win or the 458 LOTT. 450 Ack.mag is a good one. I think the .450 marlin round is a waste.

oso45-70 · « **Reply #22 on:** June 01, 2004, 03:54:09 PM »

rpseven
Boy!!!!! I bet that thing does kick. I can see why you only have ten shots through it. I don't want to start a argument about which is better the 45-70
or the 450, I have three 45-70s and enjoy shooting them, one is the GG
and the other marlin is the cowboy with lyman peep rear and a hi-vizz
front. The other is a ruger#1 which i have leupold 2.5+ 8. on the GG i have a old 4 power weaver which works real good for me. Been having a blast working up loads for them. Well Gentlemen, you all have a good day.

...............................................Joe......................................................

Lawdog · « **Reply #23 on:** June 02, 2004, 09:34:53 AM »

moosehead,

Just how many lever action .458 Win. Mag. or Lotts have you seen? Found any boxes of factory loaded .450 Ackley Magnums or seen any lever action rifles for it either? You may not like the .450 Marlin but it is a very useful round and definitely not a "waste". Just how many .450 Marlins have you tried? Small groups and tight lines to you. Lawdog

rpseven · « **Reply #24 on:** June 02, 2004, 01:49:25 PM »

Well originally the barrel belonged to a friend of mine he bought the complete pistol, it had a pretty wood grip and forend. Now this thing has so much recoil it would almost come out of your hand when you shoot it with that wood grip. I just bought the barrel from him I guess it was to much for him. Whimp!

oso45-70 · « **Reply #25 on:** June 03, 2004, 11:04:21 PM »

Moosehead,
The topic was 450 marlin VS 45-70 gov. If you wish, You could start a
new topic about the 458win VS 458 lott and the 450 rigby and we could all jump in and have one heck of a good time.
Have a nice day SIR.............Joe.....................................................

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #26 on:** June 04, 2004, 06:46:24 AM »

45-70 and you will never regret having it. I will pass on the 450. JMHO :grin:

moosehead · « **Reply #27 on:** June 04, 2004, 07:24:10 PM »

Im just poking fun...Man I have shot quite a few calibers. I don't know if a lever action would hold up to a big round like that. Im a 45/70 fan myself...I also like the new .375 cartridge. I think its a .444 necked down.

BattleRifleG3 · « **Reply #28 on:** August 04, 2004, 10:24:34 PM »

I wish they chambered more guns in the 450 Marlin, like the Remington 673 and BAR, guns well suited for the 300 WSM and the 350 Rem Mag.

I see the 450 Marlin as a shorter, milder alternative to the 450 WM.

I think it belongs in bolts and autos, not just leverguns.

Paparock · « **Reply #29 on:** August 25, 2004, 11:59:13 AM »

Deleted by Paparock