What caliber is the "the best"

[curtism1234]

I didn't see this discussed in the recent past so I thought I'd throw it out there since I am looking for a new rifle (already have a 50 cal). I'm leaning towards the mighty Kodiak Double Barrel but am open to another Hawken.


What caliber do you think is best for all-around North American game (deer, elk, bear, bison, etc)
Let's exclude the grizzly/brown bears b/c those hunts are simply too expensive to go on.

Keep in mind the availability of balls/bullets as choices are quite limited past say 58cal.

I would predict the 58 would be the likely favorite

Thoughts?

[45-70.gov]

too  me

i  say 50 cal.......with out any dought

i  shoot  the 370 grain maxi ball  mostly  with 90 grains fff.....  what can take a hit from  that
reduced load  of  30 or 50  with patched balls[170gr] for plinking or small game  or  kids  [no for  them to shoot]

don't like sabots.......neither does  my gun    1 in 48 twist
if  i wanted a 45  i would have bought one

most  every one  i know  shoots  50 also

40  is  state minamum  for hunting  and  popular with  paper punchers

[BS]

Excluding Big Bears...............For Elk, Bison, Moose..................a .69 cal English Sporter............shooting a 400  plus grain ball....is near Perfect. 

[Swampman]

The .54 is the most efficent.

[Ladobe]

None of them my Renegade 54 wouldn't handle with well placed shots at reasonable ranges.       

[coyotejoe]

Although I do own a couple of .58's, I really feel that .54 is about as large as I'd go with roundballs. If you really need more penetration than a .54 ball you'd be better off with a conical. For conical bullets I'd not go over .50 caliber. The weight of the conical bullet needs to be proportionate to the bore size if one is to get any real benefit from the conical and bullets heavier than about 400 grains will have very heavy recoil if loaded over 100 grains of powder. Thus I feel even .54 caliber is too big for conicals but quite fine with a ball.
 Recoil is a definite limitation for me. A .50 caliber ball can be loaded to 1800 fps without punishing recoil and at that speed it shoots flat, give or take two inches, out past 100 yards. A .58 caliber ball at 1300 fps has considerably more recoil and a much more curved trajectory. A .58 caliber 505 grain minie at 1000 fps has still more recoil and a terribly curved trajectory. So, the choice for me comes down to .50 or .54 round balls.

[necchi]

The .54. Can't really say anymore than what's been said. it's a cut above the .50 and will handle anything inculding Minnesota Black Bear.
 Coyotejoe really said it well about the conical and not over .50 with that kind of projectile.

[longcaribiner]

Which is best?   Best for what projectile?  assuming since this is the Traditional part of the forum that you mean Patched round balls.  It was found by Lyman nearly 30 years ago, that the bigger the ball the further down range it carries it's energy.  As I recall a 75 caliber ball, retained nearly 75 of its energy at 100 yds, whereas the 50 cal lost about 55% of it's initial energy at 100 yds.  A 75 caliber presents it's own difficulties, for hunting, and a rifle capable of accuracy would require some heavy barrel wall thickness and would be accordingly quite cumbersome.  For that reason a 75 cal is fairly impractical.  However, 62 caliber guns are out there and there are lots of 58 calibers guns.   Many places that sell muzzleloader supplies will have 570 balls in stock.   I'd vote for the 58 caliber.   Back around 1982, CVA sold a big bore mountain rifle in 58 caliber.  It was probably one of the best production guns in 58 caliber for hunting.    As I recall, the renegade was also available in 58 for a year or two.     I have a repro Civil War Zouave, that is pretty accurate in 58 and it can handle PRBs and minnie balls.  Although the PRBs seem quite a bit more accurate.   

[Swampman]

Once you exceed .54 using a PRB, the amount of powder required to get sufficent velocity make the larger calibers not worth fooling with.

[Semisane]

Once you exceed .54 using a PRB, the amount of powder required to get sufficent velocity make the larger calibers not worth fooling with.

You're confusing logic with fun Swampman.    With my eyesight and iron sights I'm limited to 75 yards or so anyway in a hunting situation.  So my .575 patched ball over 80 grains GOEX is gonna be pretty sufficient for deer.

[filmokentucky]

I like my .54, but I also use my .58s and .62s often even though they probably aren't necessary. They're fun to use and  the little extra powder and lead required are not a concern. I'm planning a 10 bore rifle in the near future just for the fun of it. We are supposed to be having fun with these guns--right?

[45-70.gov]

i  heard  and  can't  back  it  up........correct me if  i am  wrong

''their  are  more  50 cal    sold  than   ALL  other calibers put together''

i  know  most/many are for shooting sabots with  a fast twist which  i  don't like

but there  must be a reason

if  i were  to  shoot ONLY  round balls   i  MIGHT  want a little  more [54 maybe]
but  i really  like  my maxi-ball  load  and  feel  no need  to exceed  it

mine  is a t/c renegade kit   1 in 48 twist

[curtism1234]

That's true.
However, most people are shooting deer weighing under 200 pounds.


I'm a skeptic when it comes to new bullet technology. Perhaps stubborn is the better word.
I shoot nothing but the old cup/core bullets out of a centerfire. If you move up to a bigger animal like an elk, the obvouis solution to me would be to up the bullet weight (with preference to upping the caliber and bullet weight).

While 50 caliber conical slugs answer the penetration issue with animals like elk, my concern is the possible lack of expansion should you not hit bone. You hit a 150 pound deer, I believe the shear shock of the impact is enough to keep it from getting back up again. That's different with animals weighing 500-600 pounds plus.

I always feel more confident with a bigger caliber and heavier lead.

[BS]

It also depends on where you hunt...........if you have them big bears that might want to eat you.............would you rather be carrying a .54 with a 220 grain ball or a .73 with 550 grains of lead?

Efficiency and most popular don't mean crap, if you don't live to tell about the adventure!

Plus...........I really like making BIG HOLES.............

[necchi]

or a .73 with 550 grains of lead?

If it's going to be big enough and close enough ta EAT ya,, it don't matter how much lead ya throw at it!

What good is a ball that big if it's going to flop in the dirt at 85 yards?

[curtism1234]

Talking iron sights and hunting situations though.

85 yards is more than plenty 

[45-70.gov]

i  just  re-read  the original  post
just  noticed you already  have  the 50 cal

go  for  the double.......in  50 cal  of corse
if  you just feel the need for a new gun   or  follow up shot

have you tried  the  t/c maxi ball? just  buy  the mould...  i  really like that load  with 90 g of fff

i  concidered  even getting  a 32 or 36  small agame barrel

i  also have an extra 12 guage for my  t/c renagade

[filmokentucky]

or a .73 with 550 grains of lead?

If it's going to be big enough and close enough ta EAT ya,, it don't matter how much lead ya throw at it!

What good is a ball that big if it's going to flop in the dirt at 85 yards?

You're not likely to fire at anything that dangerous at more than 60 or 70 yards. But there is no reason to think the ball is going to drop out of the sky at 85 yards anyway. Big ball+big gun+big powder charge=plenty of range. If you aren't loading in proper relation to the weight of the ball you need to either rethink the whole process or find a new hobby.

[bubba]

I never understood the premise of needing a canon to stop a whiteteail deer. Do some history research and see what the pioneers and moiuntain men used.  The majority were 45 caliber with patched round balls that were molded by them over a fire. They seemed to be able to defend themselves and feed their families with it.  The size if the projectile is less important then the accuracy of the projectile.  just a thought.  But everyone has their own ideas. I personally own 50 caliber in everything for a coiuple reasons. 1 it is much easier to get the thigs you need for it as they are more available.  2 they are more then effective for the northern new york whitetails and black bears.

[zrifleman]

54 cal conical such as Lyman Plains Bullet/ 460 grs or 69 cal RB for sure fire kills on the game you mentioned.

[sproulman]

.54 cal is better with roundball than the .50 cal.so, i would say .54CAL

[coyotejoe]

I guess the bottom line is that if there were one "best" caliber they wouldn't bother making all the others.

[nw_hunter]

I didn't see this discussed in the recent past so I thought I'd throw it out there since I am looking for a new rifle (already have a 50 cal). I'm leaning towards the mighty Kodiak Double Barrel but am open to another Hawken.


What caliber do you think is best for all-around North American game (deer, elk, bear, bison, etc)
Let's exclude the grizzly/brown bears b/c those hunts are simply too expensive to go on.

Keep in mind the availability of balls/bullets as choices are quite limited past say 58cal.

I would predict the 58 would be the likely favorite

***********************************


So many choices out there!
The 50 will kill any game in North America at a reasonable range with a well placed shot.

The muzzle loaders kills with bullet mass and penetration, not the shock you get with the high powered rifles.

Look at the tissue damage done with a puny 30 cal 30/06.

The 50 cal RB is quite a bit bigger than the 30 , even without expansion.
The 54 bigger, and the 58, bigger still. (Bigger ball, Bigger hole)

I have a 50, 54 and a 62, and lately the 62 smoothbore is my favorite.
Out to 70 yards, I know the 62 RB will do a number on Deer or the elusive Roosevelt Elk I hunt, and I might take a grouse for supper when loaded with shot!

I know the 50 will do the job, but the big 62 rb will do it better JMOP!

[filmokentucky]

i  heard  and  can't  back  it  up........correct me if  i am  wrong

''their  are  more  50 cal    sold  than   ALL  other calibers put together''

i  know  most/many are for shooting sabots with  a fast twist which  i  don't like

but there  must be a reason

if  i were  to  shoot ONLY  round balls   i  MIGHT  want a little  more [54 maybe]
but  i really  like  my maxi-ball  load  and  feel  no need  to exceed  it

mine  is a t/c renegade kit   1 in 48 twist

This most likely includes modern muzzleloaders.  They need the extra bore diameter to accomodate a sabot and the modern bullet inside it. Take these guns out of the equation and you may end up with a different result.

[Winter Hawk]

I'm going to jump in and suggest .45 caliber.  With PRB it's good for small game and big game up to and including deer.  With an elongated bullet of 250 grains on up (Lee's R.E.A.L. comes to mind), it will handle bear and moose.  In one of the Book of Buckskinning series (I think) there was an article written in the late 1800s where the author used s .45 caliber muzzleloader with 500 gr. bullets to hunt bears.  And I can attest to the efficacy of the round ball in this caliber on snowshoe rabbits around Fairbanks in the early 1970s.  I am so enthralled with this caliber that I am making up a .45 barrel for my Lyman GPR flintlock.

Okay, there you go.  My $.02 worth....

-Winter Hawk-