Author Topic: War Crimes (Read 8613 times)

no guns here · « **Reply #150 on:** May 04, 2009, 04:12:52 AM »

Dang...

I never knew that Hitler was just defending Germany by invading Poland! If I would have known he was the good guy I would have been confused all my life...

Same goes for old Josef Stalin... who would'a thunk that England was so worried about him they would plunge the whole world into a war just to keep him in check. Imagine the dealings that they had to do to get Germany to bomb them "almost" into submission and then to attack Russia. Imagine... Churchill managed to even convince the Japs and Italians into this whole plan. Once he got America on board, his whole plan was working well...

I NEVER should have paid any attention to the intel briefs I saw daily on Georgia. Those FOXES.... they outsmarted us all... They were just defending themselves from the JEWS...

Golly, everything I ever knew is WRONG... I bet the Apaches were really Jews in war paint... the cowboys were just doing the right thing by killing jews. I think I've got it all figured out now.

ANY war or conflict in which a western nation is involved is a direct result of either being manipulated by the jews or a result of being attacked by the jews.

Glad we got that all cleared up.

NGH

By the way... I actually like the jews. It's the ragheads that I want to turn into ashes that glow in the dark....

Oldshooter · « **Reply #151 on:** May 04, 2009, 05:22:04 AM »

Newspaper quotes, were they the definitive word that they are today?

lgm270 · « **Reply #152 on:** May 04, 2009, 05:54:19 AM »

I am old enough to have lived through most of the cold war and as a young man in the 60's was very active in anti-communist organizations. WHen I read of communist torture of American POWs by such methods of water boarding, sleep deprivation, throwing them out in the cold, I seethed with rage. The cold war was a huge struggle for America's national survival. Even so, I don't remember anyone who wanted prisoners tortured. "Goldwater Conservatives" and other Americans of that era would have been revolted and disgusted at the idea that America would torture prisoners. Torture and abuse of people was the trademark of Bolshevism.

Now, half a century later, we embarked on another latest crusade to "make the world safe for democracy" and the GOP gave us a KGB type of police state mechanism that wire taps, searches without warrant, imprisons without habeas corpus, and tortures prisoners. The Democrats supported these measures and have made no attempt to repeal them, notwitstanding Democrat control of all braches of government. They will not give up a police state mechanism without a fight.

The recent DHS memo identifying "single issue voters", white people, gun owners, pro-lifers and other political dissidents as potential terrorists shows how far the USA has slid in criminalizing opinions. The definition of terrorism is being expanded to include political dissent and the use of torture will be expanded with it. People who think torture is such a great thing may very well find themselves falling within the expanding definition of a "terrorist" and may be tortured themselves.

lgm270 · « **Reply #153 on:** May 04, 2009, 06:38:17 AM »

Quote from: TM7 on May 04, 2009, 06:16:41 AM

Quote from: Oldshooter on May 04, 2009, 05:22:04 AM
Newspaper quotes, were they the definitive word that they are today?

Most of these quotations are from jewish newspapers or officials. I happen to study the background to wars, actually, and have been shown some of these things by my jewish in-laws...who btw, are not zionist at all. I also have seen the usual schoolboy accounts disproven time and and again concerning the war makers. Did these things make Hitler anti jewish especially when topped on the German masscres in Danzig and the Sudetenland?...well yeah. And yeah these Nazi's were bad people, but they weren't the only ones playing bad games...there were many on both sides at the same time. Just like today....actually very similar to today. Usually, along about now somebody will come along with the usual epitaphs, accusations, and name calling to shut this discussion down....so I suggest you do the research on your own...it is a facsinating subject to uncover and entirely germain to what is going on this country today. Actually, we're about where the Weimar republic was in 1930 or so, complete with economic malaise, a foreign bogeyman enemy, imported foreigners inhabiting our government offices, and hyperinflation just around the corner. War is a Racket; and it remains to be seen if Obama can holdout against those vehemently opposed to him and a coup like 911.

..TM7

During WW1, the British government through the 'Balfour Declaration" promised the Jews their own homeland in the middle east. One effect of WW1, was the fall of the Ottoman Empire and transfer of control of Palestine from the Ottoman's to the English. After WW1, there was a huge debate about whether Britain had the right to give away a country that already belonged to another group of people. (A few people noted the irony in the British Empire being the largest colonial empire that held millions of people in bondage, fighting the Germans in the name of "making the world safe for democracy." The British goal of making the world safe for democracy did not include freeing or extending civil rights to people in British controlled Africa, India, Malaya, Hong Kong, or Palestine.)

On July 4, 1921, Winston Churchill delivered a stirring defense of the Balfour Declaration in a 4 hour speech in Parliament. This speech gives valuable insight into the role of Jewish influence in WW1. Churchill made the following statement:

""Pledges and promises were made during the War, and they were made no only on the merits, though I think the merits are considerable. They were made because it was consdiered they would be of value to us in our struggle to win the War. It was considered that the support which the Jews could give us all over the world, and paricularly in the United States, and also in Russia, would be a dfinite palpable advantage."

For their support of the sprawling British Empire in WW1, the Jews were rewarded in the aftermath of that War with their own country, and the people who lived in that country for centuries were destined for death and dispossession.

Quoted my Martin Gilbert in "Churchill and the Jews-A Lifelong Friendship" (2007), Henry Holt and Co. LLC. Gilbert is himself Jewish and is the official biographer of Churchilll, most notable of which is his "definitive" multi-volume history of Churchill.

Wars are seldom fought for the stated reasons, whether for freeing slaves, enslaving free men or making the world safe for democracy. Wars are rarely fought for the benefit of the people who actually do the fighting and dying

billy_56081 · « **Reply #154 on:** May 04, 2009, 08:27:14 AM »

Boy TM you sure know your Nazi info, so why did you quit using the screenname telemagic?

I still am wondering how this thread went from war crimes to antisemitism, sure seems to be a reoccuring theme for you. It was for telemagic7 too!HMMMM a little food for thought.

no guns here · « **Reply #155 on:** May 05, 2009, 12:50:23 AM »

Nope... never really cared whether they were two seat or single seat F-16's. That part really doesn't matter to me. Just the part that it's not all a conspiracy. I know some folks don't like me and that's okay. I'm just not quite convinced that everything that happens in this world is at the behest of some cabal of money-lords and power brokers. I do believe that each group has an agenda. I believe that each group takes turn being in power... but not because somebody orchestrates it, just because we get tired of the same old crap after eight years.

Okay, so you have some quotes from the thirty's in which folks of jewish descent declare war on Germany. Of course, some of those posts came AFTER some pretty intense provocation by Germany. Hell... if you start rounding up my kin and putting them in camps or killing them, I'd declare war on you too. If you started confiscating my belongings, property, businesses and money, I'd declare war on you for that as well. If you made me wear a sign and subjected me to daily publicly ridicule solely because of my heritage, guess what? Yep... we'd be fightin'. Now... if you decided to try to expand your empire and to conquer several other countries or parts of them... we would probably go to war for that. Maybe the Netherlands, Belgium and France were all vassals of the elite jewery that was intent on destroying Germany. Maybe Poland was too... Then there was Denmark... that bastion of Zionism that it was. And goodness... the Soviet Union really was a Jew-state... Man, what about England? If Churchill orchestrated it all? Why did they suffer at the hands of the Germans? Wow... now we have to figure out why the Germans and Italians were in Africa...

Don't tell us... no, let us guess about this one. Japan invaded China to kill Jews right? It all makes sense now. Or maybe it was because the Jews told 'ol Tojo to do it...

The Jews run EVERYTHING! Quick everybody convert to ISLAM! That's the only way to win against the JEWS!!!!!!!!

No thanks... as you can tell, I'm not much on this conspiracy theory crap that you keep blowing out your air-hole.

Are there conspiracies... yep. But not ones that last for centuries and cover continents, dozens of governments and thousands of leaders. Not every war was fought for your conspiracies. Face it folks like to fight. We make war just because... well at least sometimes we do...

Sometimes we kill tens of millions just because the Bilderbergers tell us to...

NGH

billy_56081 · « **Reply #156 on:** May 05, 2009, 01:48:20 AM »

I'm still wondering how this thread went from war crimes to antisemitism? While were off topic how about we hear why our TM7 no longer goes by his old screen name?

no guns here · « **Reply #157 on:** May 05, 2009, 03:23:36 AM »

"believe you are the guy that resides in Germany, right? So another fact is that you are not allowed to dicuss much about the protagionists of WW2, zionism, or anything jewish in a negative or truthful light; or your butt will land in jail thanx to their hate speech laws....same laws which are coming here. You can badmouth Christians all you want, however."

Fact is... yes, I life in Germany. I'm here at the orders of my government. Therefore... if you had any clue, you would know that I don't fall completely under the German system of laws. I still have my God-given and Constitutionally recognized freedom of speech. You my friend must love those laws about bad-mouthing Christians. You should rise up the food chain rather quickly. Of course on the other hand you may end up in prison for speaking against the Jews... better watch out it's a conspiracy and they are after you...

Hmmm... looks like a BUNCH of your quotes were WELL AFTER krystall nacht...

'For months now the struggle against Germany is waged by each Jewish community at each conference in all our syndicates and by each Jew all over the world. There is reason to believe that our part in this struggle has general value. We will start a spiritual and material war of all the world against Germany's ambitions to become once again a great nation, to recover lost territories and colonies. But our Jewish interests demand Germany's total destruction, collectively and individually. The German nation is a threat to us Jews.'
Emil Ludwig Cohen wrote in his book The New Holy Alliance, Strasburg, 1938:

'Even if Hitler at the last moment would want to avoid war which would destroy him he will, in spite of his wishes, be compelled to wage war.'

Bernard Lechache wrote in The Right to Live (December 1938):

'It is our task to organise the moral and cultural blockade of Germany and disperse this nation. It is up to us to start a merciless war.'

The Jewish newspaper Central Blad Voor Israeliten in Nederlands printed on 13 September 1939:

'The millions of Jews living in America, England, France, North Africa and South, not forgetting Palestine, have decided to carry on the war in Germany to the very end. It is to be a war of extermination.'

The Toronto Star (26 February 1940) printed a declaration of a Rabbi Perlberg, Director of the British section of the Jewish World Congress:

'The Jewish World Congress is in a state of war with Germany for seven years.'

The Jewish magazine Sentinel of Chicago printed in its issue of 8 October 1940:

'When the National Socialists and their friends cry or whisper that this [the war] is brought about by Jews, they are perfectly right.'
The American Secretary of State, James Forrestal, who later died in mysterious circumstances, wrote in his Forrestal Diaries (Cassel and Co., London 1952):

'Have played golf with Joe Kennedy [US Ambassador in Britain, father of President John Kennedy]. According to him, Chamberlain declared that Zionism and world Jewry have obliged England to enter the war.'

The Jew, Schlomo Asch, in a pep talk to French troops in the line in Le Nouvelles Litteraires (10 February 1940) wrote:

'This is our war and you are fighting it for us. Even if we Jews are not bodily in the trenches we are nevertheless morally with you.'
On 8 October 1942 Sentinel magazine stated unequivocally:

'The Second World War is being fought for the defence and fundamentals of Judaism.'

Genesis of warfare? Satan... warring against God. The beginning and the end.

Who CARES if 99 of 100 F-16's are one seaters? We use other planes for training. If you CAN'T tell which it is... you can't prove either way can you? So it COULD be a two-seater with an E-4 combat camera chick doing her assigned job to the best of her ability. Or it could be part of a master plan... in fact, I bet she is in on it... she's probably a Bilderberger trust-fund baby ensuring her families fortune by serving in the USAF.

Goodness... how can you live a life of such insecurity, paranoia and distrust? Do you wear tin-foil hats to protect against NSA brain scans? How can you use a computer? I've hear that that NSA captures every key-stroke every where in the world? You should turn off your computer... then they won't know you're there. Put a triple layer of tin foil on your head and sit in the dark. Maybe then the conspiracy voices will go away...

If you weren't so amusing I'd just have to put you on ignore. Ever been on Springer?

NGH

WylieKy · « **Reply #158 on:** May 05, 2009, 09:54:03 AM »

Quote from: Heather on May 03, 2009, 07:15:02 AM

I guess I am just naieve. I thought war was hell! Why do we follow a certain set of rules of war? In my opinion why bother going to war if you aren't in it to win it. I think that if we are at war with a country then kill all those fighting, take prisioner all those who aren't, and take their resources so they can't come to power again. Why play nice with villans? Call me cold hearted, but war is a neccessary evil at times, and you can't win a war by playing nice.

Heather

I said that I was done with this thread, as we are going in circles, but I will respond for Heather.

War is Hell. You can be forced to do things in the heat of the moment that can scar a person for the rest of his or her life. However, once the bullets stop flying and the bombs stop falling I believe we as Americans should hold ourselves to a higher standard than our enemy. What we are discussing here is not being done in the heat of battle, but in cold blood, and being done secretly.

Freedom isn't free. We may need to give up more lives than an enemy with no scruples to preserve that higher standard. Why are we fighting if we are not fighting to preserve our standards and way of life?! Why go to War to save our way of life if we are immediately going to sink to the level of the "Godless Ones?" Our men and women are giving their lives and shedding blood, sweat, and tears to save our way of life on the battlefield, and then we TURN AROUND AND VOLUNTARILY GIVE UP THE IDEAS THEY ARE FIGHTING AND DYING TO PROTECT!

IMHO anyone willing to torture another "to save lives" is pissing on the grave of every American that has died for our way of life. It is quite simply one of the most unpatriotic sentiments I can imagine.

Oldshooter · « **Reply #159 on:** May 05, 2009, 10:09:58 AM »

One day you will know that those sob's were not tortured no matter what Obama and lefist say! our people were tortured in the south pacific and in vietnam! MCcain was tortured but you dont like him, the fact that he thinks it is toirture is the only thing you agree with! What happened in cuba was a cake walk compared to what they did to McCain and the other captives in Vietnam!

History will prove that this is all political BS, did you know that your annointed one will not close gitmo now cause no one will take those folk.and that there will be military tribunals, guess what they stopped the last administration from having them. Now it is necessary for justice! but it was an illegal act then BS and you are a sucker Because you buy it all. You are pissing on the grave of every American that died on 911

I had more respect for you when you shut the hell up!

and there is not a good face i can paste here to show my contempt or a finger!

WylieKy · « **Reply #160 on:** May 05, 2009, 10:53:13 AM »

Quote from: Oldshooter on May 05, 2009, 10:09:58 AM

One day you will know that those sob's were not tortured no matter what Obama and lefist say!

One day you will read someones post's and realize that I have said repeatedly that what has come out is borderline and I asked repeatedly for us to define torture (I put my own definition out there.)

Quote from: WylieKy on April 27, 2009, 02:01:53 PM

Quote from: WylieKy on April 27, 2009, 12:32:19 PM
Sleep deprivation, good cop/bad cop, humiliation, etc...is not torture. Waterboarding is borderline IMHO.

I guess that step 1 would be to determine what "torture" is. I think that it would be anything that causes pain (not distress or discomfort) that has no purpose other than to cause pain and get someone to talk.

Quote from: Oldshooter on May 05, 2009, 10:09:58 AM

MCcain was tortured but you dont like him, the fact that he thinks it is toirture is the only thing you agree with!

Where do you get this? As a matter of fact I think McCain is fine if not the best. At one time he was my favorite politicain (if that's worth anything), then he started selling out for votes and I lost a bit of respect for him.

Quote from: Oldshooter on May 05, 2009, 10:09:58 AM

you are a sucker Because you buy it all. You are pissing on the grave of every American that died on 911

I don't understand what I am buying... I know that I'm not drinking the cool aide you are selling, and you have difficulty dealing with that. I know that I put forth origional thought about my beliefs. I don't regurgitate anything flung by the media, be it CNN, MSNBC, or FOX. What I am proposing is fairly simple... I'm not crying over the grave of those "poor abused Iraqi's" like the liberal media, I'm saying treat your prisioner with the respect we would want our soldiers treated with, but if they are found guily of a war crime(eg..not treating our captured soldiers with the respect they are due), hang their ass.

I don't understand the "pissing on the grave of every American that died on 911" statement. Would you care to elaborate? Is it because I don't think torture is OK? No...I think I struck a nerve because deep down you are a good man and know that torture is wrong but don't know how to go back now so you are lashing out. I hope you feel better.

Oldshooter · « **Reply #161 on:** May 05, 2009, 11:44:56 AM »

Quote

Our men and women are giving their lives and shedding blood, sweat, and tears to save our way of life on the battlefield, and then we TURN AROUND AND VOLUNTARILY GIVE UP THE IDEAS THEY ARE FIGHTING AND DYING TO PROTECT! IMHO anyone willing to torture another "to save lives" is pissing on the grave of every American that has died for our way of life. It is quite simply one of the most unpatriotic sentiments I can imagine.

Is it me or was that yelling out that We did indeed torture to save lives! If you had distaste for the pissing comment then you can see where I was coming from! As I said before History will show that no one was tortured, unless the present administration writes the history. All I know about you is the content of your posts. The content of "that" post sent my blood pressure higher than it needs to go frankly. I stand by what I said! I have family and friends that put their lives on the line for this country in the past. I know neighborhood kids that gave up their lives in Vietnam and Iraq. A man I went to college with looked out his window in Manhattan and watched people jump from 80 story windows to keep from burning to death, I have ridden in a parade taking 19 year old casualty of Iraq home to his mama. A young man that grew up in and around my home is in Afghanistan right now. I have very little patience for someone worrying about the fate of our enemies , Especially when it seems to be popular and politically expedient to do so right now!

Quote

unpatriotic sentiments

is in the eye of the beholder I think!

And yes I feel much better now, thank you

billy_56081 · « **Reply #162 on:** May 05, 2009, 12:29:17 PM »

I'm still wondering how this thread went from war crimes to a neo Nazi leaning antisemetic rant.

TM, why do you avoid the question? Why do you no longer use your old screen name of telemagic7?

I if put on a jury would not convict any American soldier or citacen of any of these so called "war crimes".

The only crime in war is losing.

WylieKy · « **Reply #163 on:** May 05, 2009, 12:52:17 PM »

Quote from: Oldshooter on May 05, 2009, 11:44:56 AM

I have very little patience for someone worrying about the fate of our enemies , Especially when it seems to be popular and politically expedient to do so right now

See below. I was a proud American on 09/10 when "America" was a fashionable punchline to a joke. I was a proud American on 09/12 when everyone went out and bought bumper stickers and American Flag's to show how patriotic they were. I believed in upholding the Constitution when we were at Peace, and I believe in upholding the Constitution when we are at War.

Quote from: WylieKy on August 23, 2006, 07:56:27 AM

Quote from: magooch on August 23, 2006, 05:44:57 AM
I am sure that the government has violated the strict intent of the Constitution many times and that is wrong. But we are dealing with an element that was never contemplated by the strict originalist version of our Constitution. It is just possible that we could have remained right, but it's also very possible that we could be DEAD right.

I think you are wrong here. In their time, the origional writers of the Constitution were the "terrorists"! Their intention was to set up a government that was beholden to the people, not vice versa. The terrorists are achieving their goal everytime we allow our government to take another step on the road to totalitarianism.

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." -Benjamin Frankliin

Terrorism is a terrible, frightening thing. 2,973 died in 09/11 This is a tragedy on an unprecedented scale, and has caused tremors of fear that still reverbrate through our society. People are not as hospitable to strangers, the economy has suffered, we have gone to war, and are considering giving up some of our liberty for safety.

01/01/2001-12/31/2001- Deaths caused by terrorism in US -2,973 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11,_2001_attacks

01/01/2001-12/31/2001- Deaths caused by drunk driving-17,448 http://www.alcoholalert.com/drunk-driving-statistics-2001.html

01/01/2001-12/31/2001-Deaths by Murder-15980 (I assume this include 09/11) http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/01cius.htm

Dead is Dead. Let's keep everything in perspective. Is terrorism frightening? Yes. Is it worth selling our dearly bought liberty? No.

WylieKy

JPShelton · « **Reply #164 on:** May 06, 2009, 12:43:09 AM »

Quote from: dukkillr on April 23, 2009, 07:10:44 AM

To me, one should embrace the Constitution, even when it makes life more difficult, or perhaps costs lives. Once you allow yourself to ignore it for some justification, it's simply too easy to make new justifications each time you want to skip over someone or something's rights.

My sentiments, exactly.....

-JP

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #165 on:** May 06, 2009, 01:57:11 AM »

Sing if you must but for us to play by rules the other side has no intention of playing by is crazy . To limit our options in war when the other side is limitless is foolish .
If every one taken was subjected to torture just for the sake of doing it because we could I agree is a waste of time as in most cases its a need to know situation . But in the rare case where we have a chance to save American life and we don't it is not only stupid but borders on treason .
It was bad enough when the libs pizzed away American money but now they are OK with pizzing away American lives .
SORRY I FOR ONE DON"T CARE FOR THE CHANGE !
By the way never did care for the drug infested rock music cult.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #166 on:** May 06, 2009, 01:59:05 AM »

An d Shootall aint it strnge about how our old buddy TM avoids answering the question about his old screen name?

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #167 on:** May 06, 2009, 02:01:07 AM »

yep ! names change but retoric stayes the same !

powderman · « **Reply #168 on:** May 06, 2009, 02:28:06 AM »

SHOOTALL. Ya make too much sense friend. The Godless ones should be treated like the fbi treated dillinger, bonnie and clyde, etc. They found them and exterminated them like the plague on society they were.
BILLY. Good question for tm, if he answers let me know, I can't seem to see him. Islam is a rapidly growing cancer and should be treated as such. POWDERMAN.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #169 on:** May 06, 2009, 03:13:18 AM »

Sorry TM-7 , i don't need to look at what others did to know what is right and wrong for me . I have a life time of watching people use history to justify there short commings and others pointing out historys failures to justify there lack of morals . It is what we do and why that counts . What the Spanish , the French or the Catholics did years ago means little to nothing in this case . Saving American life is the all important cause PERIOD ! And incase you over looked it no one cares who the detaines worship , or follow the only concern is to get information that will save OUR PEOPLES LIVES and win the war .

no guns here · « **Reply #170 on:** May 06, 2009, 03:24:06 AM »

Ok... SATAN was the genesis of war. That one practices or participates in war does not in any way make one a "practicing Luciferian". If such actions made one a practicing luciferian, then all mankind would be practicing luciferian's. Not only would all mankind be so, but God himself would be since he has mandated wars at times. In fact, the Bible itself speaks of the final war in which Jesus leads heaven's forces. So using your logic, God and Jesus are and must be practicing luciferians. Your beloved Muslim's most certainly are so. But I guess if everyone would convert to Islam then it would all be great and peaceful huh? Oh dang... Islam vs. Islam has happened for centuries. That's okay, they are practicing luciferians too.

Subject to some laws, not all. Covered by the Status Of Forces Agreement. Unless it was a capital crime, off base and against a German, the most they would do is ask me to leave. Then the UCMJ, the Uniform Code of Military Justice would come into play.

I get the idea that you've never served your country. Just a question, not an accusation. If not, you probably would have a different outlook on things if you had. Volunteering to be led (or to lead) people in an enterprise which might well demand your life or the lives of your troops would give you a different outlook on things. While I am in a peaceful setting here, there is no guarantee that when we pull guard that that one time won't be the time when johnny-jihaddi tries to come through the fence to kill some Generals or to blow up my kid's school. I am prepared to put as many three-round bursts downrange as is needed to stop him or them. I am also prepared to order my troops to advance on and engage said johnny-jihaddi to stop him. THAT is our job. Now, if putting a towel over some jokers head and pouring water on it will get him to tell me who the donkey-raping rag-head is that's going to do it is, then hand me the pitcher. If playing loud music to break him down will in some way protect my kids, show me the volume knob. If putting bugs on some dude that's scared of them will tell me who is financing and building the IED's that are maiming and killing my fellow soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines then I'll open the bucket and put them on him one at a time until he breaks. I don't advocate Vietnam style torture to gain a political statement. I don't advocate WWII Japanese style torture just because I think someone is sub-human. I don't advocate WWII German style torture which seemed in many cases to be just for their amusement.

I'm just not a bleeding heart liberal who really gives a crap about most of the other nations. I don't believe that everything is one big tangled conspiracy controlled by the Catholic Church, the Jews, the Bilderbergers or anyone else. I don't have time or desire to find every small quote that I can possibly search on to support a stance. Because basically my stance is one of dis-belief. I'm not trying (nor do I desire to do so) to dis-prove your belief. I'm just trying to say that events might not be as well-planned and orchestrated as you say. You or anyone can come up with scores of quotes that can be used for any purpose you wish to turn them to. Whether I agree with you doesn't matter, my point is generally that while you MAY be right, it's not guaranteed that you are right. There ARE other real possibilities rather than your conspiracies.

I still can't figure out if the Jews were the victims in NAZI Germany or if they started the whole thing...
Why would they kill off about a third of their own people??? All this time I thought they were the victims. now I see that they were just picking a fight with the Germans. Wait, weren't the German's their friends and neighbors? More importantly weren't they their customers? If it was all a scheme for the Jews to get rich, wouldn't it have been easier to take over Saudi Arabia or to buy Texas? Pumping the oil works for the Arabs... If the jews control everything why not just take over an large oil rich area instead of fighting over a small relatively poor area?

Sometimes these conspiracies get really confusing...

I think I'll just concentrate on doing my duty, finishing a career, starting a new one, making a living and getting my kids raised. I'll leave the conspiracy theories to you experts. I'll just keep pointing out that some things may not be exactly as YOU see them. There are other possibilities. Especially when they relate to an area that I may have a bit of practical experience dealing with. I'd rather rely on my experience than tabloid accounts and political hacks with an agenda to their writing.

NGH

lgm270 · « **Reply #171 on:** May 06, 2009, 03:41:26 AM »

Interesting talk about the Left wanting to prosecute Bush and Cheney for "war crimes," etc.

Why has no one suggested that Bill Clinton be tried for murder in connection with the gassing, burning and machine gunning of 84 American civilians in Waco Texas in 1993 by forces under Clinton's command?

I am not aware that anyone died from waterboarding or the other forms of "enhanced interrogation." Eighty-five innocent civilians, many of them children, died as the result of actions by the Clinton administration.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #172 on:** May 06, 2009, 03:50:12 AM »

interesting read but again what Germany did 60 years ago is not today .
It has already been admited that information gained helped stop another attack on the USA in at least one case .

WylieKy · « **Reply #173 on:** May 06, 2009, 03:58:14 AM »

Quote from: lgm270 on May 06, 2009, 03:41:26 AM

Why has no one suggested that Bill Clinton be tried for murder in connection with the gassing, burning and machine gunning of 84 American civilians in Waco Texas in 1993 by forces under Clinton's command?

I agree. There were never any appropiate reprocussions for Ruby Ridge either.

lgm270 · « **Reply #174 on:** May 06, 2009, 04:32:17 AM »

Quote from: WylieKy on May 06, 2009, 03:58:14 AM

Quote from: lgm270 on May 06, 2009, 03:41:26 AM
Why has no one suggested that Bill Clinton be tried for murder in connection with the gassing, burning and machine gunning of 84 American civilians in Waco Texas in 1993 by forces under Clinton's command?

I agree. There were never any appropiate reprocussions for Ruby Ridge either.

An Idaho District Attorney brought murder charges against the FBI rifleman who shot Vicki Weaver in the head while she held her baby in her arms, but the case was dismissed on grounds of Federal supremacy over state's rights. Federal gunmen who commit murder are immune from prosecution. I read somewhere that the shooter got a Public Relations job with HS Precision. There was some blowback from rank and file gun people.

Oldshooter · « **Reply #175 on:** May 06, 2009, 08:46:52 AM »

Oh here's an incident that may shed some light on how mistreated these guys are at gitmo, notice these guys get phones to call home! ;

Quote

The two boys were the sons of Guantanamo prisoner #1463, Abdelsalam al-Hilah, a businessman who was captured in Cairo in 2002 and sent to Guantanamo on charges of terrorism, said Ahmed Irman of the Hood Organization for Defending Human Rights, an organization that advocates for Guantanamo detainees in Yemen.

The children, Youssef, 11, and Omar, 10, were playing unsupervised with the grenade in a room in the house when it exploded. It is unclear why the grenade was in the house.

The detainee's brother, Nabil al-Hilah, confirmed the boys were killed.

Irman said the boys had just received a rare phone call from their father two days before their death in which they chatted with their dad about their schoolwork and classes they were attending. Irman said their father was shocked to hear how big the boys had grown.

It is also told that they have a chef that cooks the foods they like, according to their beliefs.
What No bacon or pork chops?

billy_56081 · « **Reply #176 on:** May 06, 2009, 10:53:45 AM »

So has anyone on th winnign side of a war been convicted of war crimes?

TM7 are you avoiding the question about why you changed your screen name? Something to hide?

powderman · « **Reply #177 on:** May 06, 2009, 02:37:20 PM »

NGH. Again, good post.
BILLY. Good question. POWDERMAN.

jimster · « **Reply #178 on:** May 06, 2009, 04:49:05 PM »

I think the whole "war crimes" think is just all politics for other purposes besides actually caring about tough interrogations. The same people who said heck ya...get the info any way you can, are the same people who are trying to point the finger at others, all for politics of course. They all knew about it, they wanted it. Back in the late 60's our special forces would jerk people out of their homes in Vietnam while their families were screaming and interrogate them too....what's the big deal about this waterboarding deal? Seems to me we got softer over the years.
It's politics really. The current administration would have no problem with waterboarding the conservatives that went to the tea parties...don't let them kid you...they are all mean to the bone with no passion whatsoever. Just depends on who they want to interrogate or inflict pain on. In this case, it's the opposite party.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #179 on:** May 07, 2009, 01:45:45 AM »

As I've said before, if I were on a jury I would not convict an American of any of these so called war crimes. I care not what they do to the subhuman muslim animals. They give no quarter therefore deserve none.