This may not be Self Defence, but didn't know where else...

[tallyho]

Just read on Drudge <http://www.drudgereport.com/> that agents from GAO were able to smuggle box cutters aboard several aircraft this summer.

This is two years and a day after 9-11. What do you suppose would be the outcome today if anyone tried to take over an airplane with a box cutter.

Statistically, the chances are that your pilot today is NOT armed (some resistance from TSA apparently) and unless the passengers pull a Flight 93 type uprising on the hijackers, not much different will be the result than two years ago.

And though I have little doubt the passengers would attack the goons, wouldn't it be so much more satisfying to have one of the crew appear, pistol in hand (too much to hope that it would be CCW passenger yet) smile and simply point out to the guy(s) with the box cutter how unwise it is to bring a box cutter to a gunfight!:roll:
 
What he/she (crewmember) does after that common sense statement, I leave up to your individual imaginations.  :excuseme:

When all the pilots are armed, will body bags become standard equipment on commercial aircraft?
:yeah: :toast:

[Double D]

Personally I want the pilots locked into the cockpit with no acess to the passenger cabin. They need to be flying the plane.  

I find it Ironic that a few years before 9-11 the Airline Pilots petitoned to the FAA to prohibit Law enforcement officers without a specific need from carrying firearms on baird aircraft.  Some of their concerns were legitimate, i.e. how do you tell who is a cop and who isn't, they don't have the traing.  The response by Law enforcement Officer groups was say "give us the specific training and universal Identification"  Law enforcement Adminstrators apposed that because they might be liable. The Irony, not to long after the ban went into effect, 9-11!

Leave the professional actions to the right professional: Flying or apprehending armed suspects.

Now on the other hand, if I am on  a flight that  is being hijacked and the armed professional doesn't come to the rescue, I am going to apply those very rusty dusty skills learned 30 years ago in boot camp. ATTACK!

For years we have been preaching a philosphy of "be a sheep"  We need to rethink that.

[tallyho]

Double D:

According to my information, the pilots who choose to be armed ARE trained  to 'professional' standards, and officially given some kind of Law Enforcement  credential. (You don't really expect this government to simply hand out guns to aircrews do you?)

Not all pilots choose to do this, and those who do are in large part either ex Lawdogs or military, already have some firearms knowledge.

All I want is for there to be another simple, practical common sense, option.

I like the idea of having an already competent and trained aircrew member be given additional training and have a gun in the cockpit. If you want to armour plate the door, well that is another option, with its pros and cons as do any of the options.

As for the issue of " how do you tell who is a cop and who isn't?" Doesn't really seem to apply to "how do you tell who are the pilots and who aren't?":!:

As someone who has been in aviation most of my life, (part of it as a commercial pilot - not airlines) I know that the safety of the aircraft and its cargo/passengers is morally and legally the responsibility of the pilot. I want them to have some ability to meet those demands. Locking them in the cockpit in a hijacking situation leaves  them only a single avenue available - fly the airplane and land at the first available airfield.

Those who choose to jump through the legal and bureaucratic hoops in order to be deemed able to carry in the cockpit are not satisfied with that avenue as their only choice.

And if you are in favor of CCW laws (I don't know if you are - but you are on this forum so I'm guessing you might be) the concept is very much the same. One of the biggest advantages to CCW is that the 'bad guys' don't know who is carrying, thereby making the general population safer. Same applies to the airlines, the 'bad guys' won't know which pilots are armed, and in general this will make all of us a bit safer, and make their job harder.

And yes, I fully expect that whoever has those "rusty skills" or not so rusty skills will do what they have to do if the options evaporate and however the situation develops. That also is a separate issue, and another option.

And when I think of the alternative; being shot down by an F-16, I want just one more layer of response between my tender behind and a Sidewinder missle. :!: All those layers may not stop my butt and the Sidewinder becoming acquainted, but personally, I prefer that they be there anyway.

Cheers

[Q400]

As heavly reinforced as the cockpit doors are today there is no way they can be opened from the outside, most all open inward and have no external handles pluse ours have a dead bolt arrangement on the inside that makes inpossible for them to be opened from the outside. This also makes it impossible to get into the cockpit in the event of a crash in which the cockpit is intact. Some food for thought though is that prior to 9/11 the doors were still locked from the inside so the flight crew had to open them, what is needed is a crew that will not open the door no matter what threats are made against the passengers or the cabin crew. Also from what I saw on the news dealing with their training I can't figure out how a hijacker could get in front of the pilot and let us hope their training had them firing live rounds seated with seatbelts and shoulder harness on and with the weapon within about six inches of their face. Try this by sitting in a chair and pointing over your shoulder this is the firing position that would be most likely while sitting at the controls. For what it is worth.