Lever action caliber choices?

[Bowhunter57]

I'm considering the purchase of a long barreled (24" or 26") lever action rifle. This rifle will be used for varmint hunting with shots being inside 100 yards. Varmints = groundhogs, coyotes, fox, coons, feral cats, etc. I'll be using open sights and reloading for this rifle.

Which one of these calibers would you suggest and why?
* .357 Mag.
* .44 Mag.
* 30/30
* 45-70

Personally, I'm tossing a coin between the .357 Mag. and the 45-70. Huge difference, I know, but I keep reading the post about "Just got my Cowboy 45-70" and it's driving me nuts. I've shot a 45-70 Trap-Door and am very impressed with this cartridge. I'm thinking a low load with a semi-wad cutter would work nicely for varmints, in a 45-70....I could be wrong.

Your opinions and experiences are appreciated.
Thank you, Bowhunter57

[jlchucker]

For what you intend to use it for, it sounds like the 357 may be the way to go.  I'm a fan of the 30-30, too.  The latter is a caliber I've used literally since childhood (that would be before the "pre-64" thing for you young squirts). The 30-30 cartridge, loaded with the Lyman 115 gr 311008 sized to around .310 makes for a very pleasant, accurate, and cheap-to-shoot load.  At around 1500 fps it would be plenty for the varmints you intend to go after.  I say all of this after reading that you already have a 45-70 and you seem to be a handloader.  But you did say that you were going to buy a new rifle, too. I've got a 44 magnum EMF model 92 rifle that I like, but if I were going to get one of those again, it would be the 357.  44 mag would be overkill for the uses you've described, IMO.  By the way, EMF's website is still down. I wonder what the prognosis is for it coming back up.  Anyone heard?   

[brianscott12]

For what you intend to use it for, it sounds like the 357 may be the way to go.  I'm a fan of the 30-30, too.  The latter is a caliber I've used literally since childhood (that would be before the "pre-64" thing for you young squirts). The 30-30 cartridge, loaded with the Lyman 115 gr 311008 sized to around .310 makes for a very pleasant, accurate, and cheap-to-shoot load.  At around 1500 fps it would be plenty for the varmints you intend to go after.  I say all of this after reading that you already have a 45-70 and you seem to be a handloader.  But you did say that you were going to buy a new rifle, too. I've got a 44 magnum EMF model 92 rifle that I like, but if I were going to get one of those again, it would be the 357.  44 mag would be overkill for the uses you've described, IMO.  By the way, EMF's website is still down. I wonder what the prognosis is for it coming back up.  Anyone heard?   

I agree, but go ahead and get a 45/70 also, if you can afford it you will not regret it.

[yukondog]

I would go with the .357, less recoil,you could use.38 spl. also.But where would you get a 24"or26"barrel? The 357 would anything you could ask of it even out to 100yrds.

[Bowhunter57]

I would go with the .357, less recoil,you could use.38 spl. also.But where would you get a 24"or26"barrel? The 357 would anything you could ask of it even out to 100yrds.

yukondog,
Thank you, for the suggestion concerning recoil, but I'm not a recoil sensitive person.

Also, Puma makes the .357 Mag., .44 Mag. and 45LC in a 24" barrel. Marlin makes the 1894 Cowboy 45-70 in a 26" barrel.

jlchucker,
I don't beleive in overkill, dead is dead. I'm doing some varmint elimination for some local/regional farmers, so if I'd carve a canoe out of a critter, so be it. 
A good friend of mine has an original Trapdoor 45-70 and it's a pleasure to shoot. The load variations are great, which make it a possible choice. Especially, if I ever get to go out of state for large game.

Good hunting, Bowhunter57

[Davemuzz]

FWIW, I've killed a lot of groundhogs with my T\C Contender in .223 rifle with Nosler 45gr. BT's. At close range these little fast movers will just turn 'em inside out and at long ranges (for me in Pa. 200 to 300 yards) these little bullets will make "stuff" come out of 'em sometimes.

However, in the spring I've been giving 'em a sporting chance. Last year I shot at 'em with nothing else but my Smith PC M29 44 mag. This year I've chosen to get 'em with my Marlin 1895XLR 45-70 with a Williams peep sight. And not only that, but I've been loading up and shooting the new Hornady FTX bullets. (Yeah....really it's just an experiment on just how accurate these new FTX's are 'afore deer comes in).

So far it's Dave 2 and 'Hogs 1. And the miss was at 300 yards. But I gotta tell you, I didn't miss him by much and these 325 grain bullets make a heck of a splat in the mud. You can see it easy with the naked eye. That hog didn't give me a chance to whale a second one at him.

The other 2 were only 30 yards....so they were kind of easy pickins! And the 45-70 just makes a big hole in and a big hole out. No inside out stuff like the .223.

But I will say that varmit hunting with a big bore handgun or rifle is different and challenging.....and a real hoot!!

Dave

[dpe.ahoy]

Here's another reason to go with the 357 or 44 mag.  NO CLEANING LUBE OFF CASES!  As much as my family shoots, it's a major chore cleaning all the bottle-neck cases when we reload.  I try to grab 22's or pistol caliber rifles to go plinking unless sighting in.  I have 7 kids and all but the 4 year old shoots alot, now have guests till mid june and 4 of them are ready to go shoot when ever we can.  Even reloading can get spendy in a hurry.  DP

[Hodr]

I go coyote hunting with my brother-in-law.  He calls them in to 100 yds and at that range it is a snapshot with my winchester .357 trapper, 18" barrel.  I use cast lead bullet handloaded to 38pl about 8-900 feet measured in a six" S&W.  I figure I get a boost to 10-1100 in the rifle barrel.  It is definetly a coyote killer using peep sights or ghost ring.  I load in hot .357 mag with a jacketed hollowpoint and knock over texas hogs at the same range.  Did I mention the 38spl is very quiet, and cheap easy to load ammo doesn't hurt.  Just make sure that whatever you get feels right and have fun.

blindhari

[stubshaft]

I got my first .357mag Marlin in the late '70s.  I used it to harvest over 500 hogs.  It is handy, light and accurate.  Ammo is readily available and it can shoot both 38 spl and 357 mag.  BUT, I gotta say that I also LOVE, both of my 1895 45/70's.  The first is a full length microgroove barrel that has shot my BEST EVER group out of a lever action (3/4@100yds).  The second, is a Guide Gun with ballard rifling that I bought used.  There is something magical at looking at those big hunks of brass and lead...

[securitysix]

If you already have a .357 or .44 Mag revolver, I would think that might influence your choice.  Any of them will kill the game you listed at the ranges you listed.  I have a Marlin 1894 in .357 Magnum and a Rossi 1892 in .45 Colt.  I've considered getting a Marlin in .45-70 or .450 Marlin, but since I don't hunt and neither is particularly practical to blast bottles and cans with, I can't seem to justify either to myself at the moment.

[swordfish]

My Marlin 45-70 Cowboy always jumps in the truck when I go hunting. Believe me, I have plenty of other choices, but it always seems to be the one that gets to go on the hunt (WhiteTail & Hogs), but for varmint hunting, I don't think it would be my first choice. It will work though. 

[brianscott12]

My Marlin 45-70 Cowboy always jumps in the truck when I go hunting. Believe me, I have plenty of other choices, but it always seems to be the one that gets to go on the hunt (WhiteTail & Hogs), but for varmint hunting, I don't think it would be my first choice. It will work though. 

Yeah it would work but it woud be hard to tell.

[Bowhunter57]

I am absolutely amazed at those of you that are harvesting deer and hogs with the .357 Mag. lever action rifles. I would've never thought it would be considered for that use. The .357 Mag. in a rifle must have more potiential than I'd given it credit for having. I've owned several .357 Mag. revolvers and have always beleived in their ability to get the job done, but I'd never thought this cartridge's ability would become so favored in a rifle.

I have this question posted on 5 forums and much to my suprise, the .357 Mag. is the first choice for most people with the 30/30 and 45-70 following close behind. I have no interest in a 30/30, but a 45-70 does interest me. Since I'll be reloading for this rifle, I would think that the 45-70 could be loaded with some light weight bullets and do fine for varmint hunting.

However, like I stated earlier...it's hard to argue with the success you guys are having with the .357 Mag.

I'm still torn in my decision between the .357 Mag. and a 45-70.

Thank you, to all that have replied so far.
Good hunting, Bowhutner57

[jlchucker]

Quit agonizing and buy one of each!  Don't worry about calibers like .357 for deer.  They are not armor-plated animals, and those bullets won't bounce off.  They don't have hogs where I live but I have to respect the opinions of posters here that live in hog country and use that caliber on them.  For certain, if the .357 round is good out of a revolver, it's even better out of a rifle.  If you had one of each caliber, though, and doubted the capability of the .357 for hogs, you could always grab the 45-70 for them.  You can handload a 45-70 to a point that it would even take out a tyrannosaurus rex with a well placed, cast bullet shot if you live in dinosaur country.  One of each, my friend, one of each!  worrying and agonizing will make you an old man.

[Hodr]

Find someone who will let you use the rifle you are considering.  To me a 24-26" barrel is a nusiance.  I was raised on peepsights.  I am a decent shot from bench and was on 3 major army rifle teams in the late 60s.  I can use scopes but they annoy me no end.  Coyote, feral dog or cat, texas hog are not things I even consider hunting with a long shot.  At 100 yds and under (probably because of old fogie eyesight) I can still snapshoot with confidence.  Outside of 100 yds I just don't pull the trigger.  My rifle with an 18" barrel fits me and my style.  I have seen my brother in law bring down critters with a single shot from a scoped 270 remington bolt out to 400 yds.  He has had that rifle for 40 years and it fits him.  Both of us are always trying to convince the other of our firearms superiority.  When hunting for anything short of elk, he takes everything outside of 100yds but I am generally just enough faster to get the shot under that distance.  Both rifles do the job.  Look until you find a rifle that feels so natural in your hands you can't put it down and walk away from it.  After that look for caliber.

blindhari

I do confess that a45-70 seems to be calling me to at least try it.

[mannyrock]

Bowhunter,

    The .357 Mag is a totally different animal coming out of a rifle than a revolver.  Just the standard 158 grain factory softpoint loads have a muzzle energy of around 1,250 ft pounds at the muzzle, and still have about 750 ft pounds at 100 yards.

   More importantly, the companies like Corebon and Buffalo Bore make high-energy .357 rounds for hunting, at very reasonable prices, using compressed powder loads, that approach the power of a .30-.30!  They advertise that these do not create dangerous chamber pressure, and are safe to shoot in athe Marlin 1894.

   With the regular factory soft-points158 grain rounds, you should limit your shots on deer to 100 yards, and always go for a lung shot if possible. 

   With the high energy rounds, you can extend your shots on deer to 125 yards.

   Just don't shoot  deer any farther than this.

Best Regards,

Mannyrock

[Bowhunter57]

Quit agonizing and buy one of each!

Thank you, for making this statement. I try to imagine owning something before purchasing it so that I don't regret my decision later. I would like to purchase both, but in reality, I don't think the 45-70 would be my choice between the two calibers...if I owned both of them at the same time. Since there's no deer to hunt in Ohio, legally, the .357 Mag. is a better choice.

They are not armor-plated animals, and those bullets won't bounce off. They don't have hogs where I live but I have to respect the opinions of posters here that live in hog country and use that caliber on them.

There are so few hogs in Ohio, that it's not worth mentioning. Our DNR won't allow pistol cartridges in rifles for use in hunting deer....yet. Indiana has recently passed this idea into law, so perhaps Ohio will follow suit.

One of each, my friend, one of each!  worrying and agonizing will make you an old man.

I'm going to start out with the .357 Mag....in a Marlin 1894CB. The 45-70 will have to wait until another year and I don't think I'll be dissatisfied with my choice. I'm old enough as it is, so I'll be purchasing that rifle next week.

Again, I thank everyone for their replies! Everyone has been most helpful!!!

Good hunting, Bowhunter57

[securitysix]

I am absolutely amazed at those of you that are harvesting deer and hogs with the .357 Mag. lever action rifles. I would've never thought it would be considered for that use. The .357 Mag. in a rifle must have more potiential than I'd given it credit for having. I've owned several .357 Mag. revolvers and have always beleived in their ability to get the job done, but I'd never thought this cartridge's ability would become so favored in a rifle.

Back when Smith & Wesson first introduced the .357 Magnum, one of the things they did was use it to take an elk.  Now, admittedly, the .357 Magnum was a different beast back then than it is today.  The original .357 Magnum load pushed a 158 grain lead bullet at 1500 FPS out of an 8 3/8" barrel.  Even with the lawyered down loads we have today, they're still crowding 1300 FPS from 8" barrels and 158 grain bullets.  Not necessarily something one wants to take an elk with, but definitely deer capable within its range limitations.

The .357 Magnum is able to use some fairly slow powders (as far as pistol powders are concerned, anyway), which benefit from longer barrels, so going from a 6" barrel (what both my Ruger Security-Six and GP-100 sport) to an 18" or 20" barrel like a lot of the Marlins have will give you a huge increase in velocity.  Add to that the fact that Marlin has made their LeverEvolution ammunition available in .357 Magnum, and you can get some truly incredible things done with the cartridge.

[Swampman]

The .30-30 is an awesome cartridge, but the .357 is fine.  I love the .45-70, but it's too much for what you want to do.

[salvo]

Bowhunter57, great choice with the marlin 1894CB. I bought one around a year ago and it has become my favorite Jackrabbit rifle. I just started Coyote hunting and as close as you can call them in the CB will work fine. Heck the jackrabbits are about coyote sized on my property in S. Utah.

[Wild Bill 442]

I will beg everyone's pardon in advance....  I'd like to add two points to this and recognize the topic has been very focused on the question as stated and my points drift a bit in a different direction.  Even so I find them germaine and to the point.

1) - Varmints?  Why isn't a 25-20, 218 Bee, or even a 25-35 or a 219 Zipper on the list?  Yeah, I know.  You can't go to  your favorite gun purveyor and pick up a new one in a box and ammo's considerablely more limited, and no body talks about such calibers any more.....  But shootin' varmints with lever guns is exactly what they were meant to do.
2) Maybe I better just leave it to one oddball question. 

[securitysix]

Wild Bill, I think he was specifically asking about current production guns made by Marlin.  Most, if not all, of those calibers you listed could be gotten in a Marlin gun, but you'd be looking for a used piece (nothing wrong with them) which may be very difficult to find.

Any of the ones the OP listed will work just fine for varmints as long as pelt preservation isn't much of a concern.  If you're wanting to save the pelts, a .45-70 is NOT the way to go. 

[Davemuzz]

Securitysix is right.

In the orginal post, he described varmits as: Varmints = groundhogs, coyotes, fox, coons, feral cats. Now, that being the case, if he's not concerned about pelt damage of fox or coons, then (if I were him) I would choose the 30-30. With the new Hornady ammo, that is a legit 200 yard or better gun.

If he would be concerned about pelts, I don't know if I'd go with anything above a 22 mag (22 hornet would be the preferred) and keep the shots at 125 yards....again using the new Hornady polymer tip 22 mag ammo.

My two cents on the 45-70 was only because I have other calibers if I want to get serious with varmits (.223, .243, .22 mag) and the 45-70 was just like launching howitzer shells at 'em. 

Dave

[Bowhunter57]

Why isn't a 25-20, 218 Bee, or even a 25-35 or a 219 Zipper on the list?

Wild Bill 442,
I didn't list them due to the difficulty of getting one and simularly to what securitysix has mentioned. The current availability of the Marlin 1894CB, in .357 Mag. will do what I'm asking of it. Inside the 100 yard mark is where I'll be hunting with this rifle, so with some range time, finding a reload that will be the most accurate and I should be in business.

I already have a .223 that works great for varmints, but I'm looking for something different than what I already own and a Marlin lever action rifle will fit the task at hand.

I'm doing some elimination and/or pest control for some local farmers, so pelts and meat damage isn't a concern. Grounghogs...young groundhogs can be tasty, when fixed on the grill, but if I want one for eating I'll just shoot 'em in the head. Otherwise, I'll find an accurate load with a 110gr. JHP, like I used to do with my .357 Mag. revolvers and go hunting.

I really appreciate everyone's input on this topic. It has been very helpful to read the replies.
Good hunting, Bowhunter57

[Default]

 Bow,

 357 mag then 44 mag in that order  only because you didnt mention medium sized game ... other wise i would say go 44 mag ... Both are damn near recoiless , both are a pleasure to reload with cheap cast lead and jacketed bullets , use very little powder .. And are just down right fun .. I own a 357 mag winnie AE 94 with saddle ring and i would trust for busting most anything im likely to find in my area , definately meets your criteria , The 44 on the other hand does it better with more thump on the recieving end and one i wouldnt second guess on the black bears in my area , I would second guess with the 357 unless i had my 180 gr loads in hand .
 And  I too am a bit of a lever guy , 357 mag Winchester 16 1/4" barrel , Uberti "golden boy" brass recievered 45 LC 19" barrel and H&R Handi in 44 mag ( guy sold my marlin before i could get to him on pay day  )
  All are shooters ,


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