Help me out......I'm caught!

[kombi1976]

Here's the predicament....
When the missus wanted to have our 4th baby I did a bit of a deal - a new rifle and a hotter motor for my vintage VW Bus.
The motor has gone out the window, and I can live with that, but the baby is due in just over a month and I'm thinking about my rifle options.
Initially I thought about getting a decent rifle in preferably in 280 Rem or maybe 7x64 Brenneke.
As it turns out the Remington 700 Mountain LSS are available here in that cal and it a nice looking rifle.
I also seriously considered getting a Ruger No1a in 7x57 as I have lusted over these for quite a while.
More recently I've thought about picking up one of the Baikal MP221 Artemida sxs double in 45-70.
And I've also considered getting a Ruger No1H in 450/400 NE 3".
All of these rifles are in the AUD$1500 price range.
There are some things about all of them however.
I'm not a big fan of Rems, considering them over-rated and overpriced, and the LSS only weighs about 6.5 lbs, barely more than my Tikka T3 Lite Stainless and must have a bbl like a toothpick which would get hot really quick.
The Ruger has a lot going for it but as much as 7x57 is a classic cal it doesn't have the same oomph has 280 Rem; if Ruger made a No1 in 280 my decision would be made.
The Baikal is very enticing and is the cheapest double on the market.....which is a concern in itself, though from owners and trustworthy dealers I've had good reports.
It's no Purdey or H&H and the triggers need doing and the recoil pad replacing but plenty of factory rifles need that.
But I reckon it'd lose value fast and it also has a limited pressure rating; approx 31,000psi.
Then again it might suddenly go out of production and be a real cult classic.
For those interested in what the Baikal looks like in the flesh here are a few pics taken by a guy who bought one here:
http://madmick3006.com/AHN/MM/firear...1_08%20012.jpg
http://madmick3006.com/AHN/MM/firear...1_08%20015.jpg
The 450/400 NE 3" OTOH is a big cal.
It would be useful for sambar deer and for buffalo and camels when I finally make it to the Northern Territory and central Australia but for everything else it's overkill of the highest order.
It's also pretty expensive to feed although I could use cast pills with reduced loads most of the time.
There are other options I suppose although I'm fussy.
The "same old same old chambers" bore me i.e. .223, .243, .270, .308 & .30-06.
I also have no interest in any type of magnum, short or long, or the .308 based cartridges.
Picky, right?
I already have Martini Cadets in .22 Hornet & .25-20, a SMLE 303/25, M98 8x57 and Tikka 9.3x62.
I guess what I need to decide is should I buy a big bore or a medium to big game rifle.
I'm in no rush but I'd appreciate the advice to be detailed.
I'm really interested in anyone who owns or has tried one or more of these rifles.

[moxgrove]

The 7x57 would be sweet to carry and in a great do it all light/ medium caliber.

[Val]

I have a Remy Mountain Rifle with the drop magazine and I like it very much. Yes it has that thin sporter barrel, which is not a problem when hunting deer or pig since you normally don't shoot many shots while hunting. When zeroing or developing a load you must give it plenty of time to cool between groups. It sure carries nice in the field.

[mcwoodduck]

While I would love to voice my opinion as to what i would get.
The 7X57 would be nice, easy to cary and shoot and you can't beat it for a deer, pig, or black bear rifle.  i know a bunch of people are thinking of thier favorite calier right now but all of the 8mm and under rounds that started out as a military round work about the same on game animals.  I'm sure with heavy for caliber bullets would work on the heavy game you are looking at the No 1.H for.
The only thing I can say is why not combine three of your considerations into one.
Ruger No1 S in 45-70.
With the new Hornady Leveroution bullets you can reach out there for standard game,  and then you can load it with some of the buffalo bore 45-70 Magnum loads that are at the bottom end of 458Win Mag for your largest game.  The standard 300 and 405 grain bullets will be able to take everything as a brush gun.  i have this gus little brother the Ruger No 3 Carbine in 45-70 and it is a great handy little rifle.

[kombi1976]

You ideas for the 45-70 are good, mcwoodduck, but the only reason I was going to buy a 45-70 was because the double was chambered in it and any double under 9.3 cal or with a rimless case isn't worth it's salt.
More and more the 7x57 is shaping up as the right choice.
But I have plenty of time yet.

[Silvertp]

You can see what I would recommend as Im a real fan of the .284 caliber.


Ive owned two 7x57 in the lightwt ruger #1.  The first early model 1ab was a shooter and had the nicest wood Ive ever owned on a rifle.  A real joy to carry and use.   I settled on 154 grain hornady bullets and would get right at 1 - 1 1/4 inch groups all day long.  I finally got bored with it and sold it to a fella that later showed me a 1/4 inch group he had shot at 100 yds. 

Well, I got to feeling lonely and so started my search again for another 7x57.  Picked up another 1a and its quite a shooter as well.  Don't think I'll ever part with this one.  Its just a really nice package where rifle and caliber really compliment one another.  Quick to handle, easy to carry, easy on the eyes and plenty accurate and adequate for most any hunting that I'll ever do.

If you make this your choice I don't think you will be disappointed. 

Silvertp

[jro45]

Did you think about the 338 Win Mag. That would be my next rifle If I were you

[charles p]

Start with a Rem 700.  Now pick anything you want.  When you no longer want it, sell it and get all of your money back, maybe more.  IN fact, you can throw away everything but the action, and get your money back.  Any good smith can tweak it also.

[Swampman]

If you don't have a .30-06, I'd get it over the .280.

[kombi1976]

Did you think about the 338 Win Mag. That would be my next rifle If I were you

Maybe it would be but I didn't even spare a thought for any of the magnums, let alone a 338 Win.
I'm not interested in them at all, the only possible exception being 270 WSM and that was fleeting.
The only others I like the thought of are 8mm Rem Mag or 300 H&H but both the 8mm Rem and 300H&H require long actions and are costly to feed.
Besides, I have a Tikka T3 in 9.3x62.
In most African countries the '62 was the exception to the 40 cal minimum law.
If they're happy with it I can't complain.
It's certainly kinder to the shoulder than a 338 would be.

Start with a Rem 700.  Now pick anything you want.  When you no longer want it, sell it and get all of your money back, maybe more.  IN fact, you can throw away everything but the action, and get your money back.  Any good smith can tweak it also.

See, that's counting on the fact I like Remingtons.......and I don't.
They're like small block Chevs; lots of go faster bits but common as muck.
I don't doubt they can be accurate.
Problem is they're well overpriced here and, IMO, overrated.

If you don't have a .30-06, I'd get it over the .280.

Again, you probably would.
I, on the otherhand, wouldn't - just like I'd never buy a 243, especially a Rem 700 with a Leupold VXIII 3-9x40 on it (long story).
If I found a decent double for the right price and it was an '06 I might buy it but aside of that 30-06s are about as appealing to me as a bird hunting with Dick Cheney.
I know the arguments "You can find ammo/brass/components/rifles anywhere," "It won 2 world wars," "More game have been shot with '06s," "They may've invented new cartridges but they don't kill anything deader than an '06 does."
I get the point.
But, like my views on the magnums and Rem 700s, I said as much at the beginning of this thread.
I'm weird and picky - gotta have a hobby, right? 
As it happens Browning now make the X-Bolt Hunter in 280 Rem which is more appealing, at least to me, than the Rem.
It even has a detachable rotary mag and a tang safety.
And it's more like AUD$1400.
Mmmm, starting to sway that way......so long as I can get one into the country. 

[Harry Snippe]

The X shaved metal from the top strap to save weight , then went to the four screw mount for that reason . So I thinK the A bolt would be more appealing, since it has the medal in the reciever next to your face.
You seem to have the bases covered , Something for big game as well as deer sixed. other than maybe some speed in the big bores. So you almost are breaking the bank to buy a box of bullets for each rifle .

Maybe you would like a target rifle then for this is some thing you have not covered , so something in the 22/250 , 204 up, to including the 6.5/ 284 which would not cost much to load.

[dpe.ahoy]

Get the Ruger #1 in 7X57, then rechamber to the 280.  DP

[kombi1976]

The X shaved metal from the top strap to save weight , then went to the four screw mount for that reason . So I thinK the A bolt would be more appealing, since it has the medal in the reciever next to your face.

Mmmm, just a pity it isn't chambered in 280 anymore.

You seem to have the bases covered , Something for big game as well as deer sixed. other than maybe some speed in the big bores. So you almost are breaking the bank to buy a box of bullets for each rifle .

Mmmm, when you say I'm breaking the bank each time I buy a box of bullets do you mean I already am when I buy them for the 9.3mm?
Or do you mean good bullets for something like a 375 H&H, 404 Jeffrey, 416 Rigby or 458 Win would be prohibitively expensive?
But yeah, I am pretty well covered in terms of most game.
My aim was to get something that recoiled a little less and shot a bit flatter, or conversely to get a fun rifle like the Baikal double in 45-70.

Maybe you would like a target rifle then for this is some thing you have not covered , so something in the 22/250 , 204 up, to including the 6.5/ 284 which would not cost much to load.

As much as a target rifle would be interesting I'm not really a target shooter.
If my local club had more of a focus on it I would probably be moved to pick up an Omark M44 in 308 and either keep it in that cal or rebarrel to 6.5/284.
But we're more a social club and most of our members are hunters so there's little emphasis on competition.
I'm really only interested in something I can sling over my shoulder and head into the bush with.

Get the Ruger #1 in 7X57, then rechamber to the 280.  DP

I could, but whatever I buy I don't want to alter that much.
Besides, a 280 Rem would benefit from a couple more inches of bbl.

[Chappers]

Mate, for the territory i would say the Rugar #1 tropical that calibre will be up to the challenge and give you a bit of security you need with a single shot rifle....
But the Baikal fan in me would say MP221 the .45-70 would be up for the job for buffalos. (not as well at the 450/400 NE3” but with the knowledge that you got a backup ready to fly asap would help me choose) and if you choose the .45-70 maybe find a shotgun that will take some inserts. (Example: http://www.ussginc.com/parts-more-access-EAA-riflebarrel-inserts.html and yes these inserts use Baikal shotguns)

Cheers,
and congrats on the baby

[kombi1976]

Looks like a good idea and would definitely be cheaper.......IF I lived in the USA.
Sadly I don't and it would be a nightmare trying to import those bbls.
Plus they look like they'd be interesting to regulate.

[gofish]

Hey man how much do you pay for 7X57 , kinda hard to get here in good old Minnesota. Love the round though .

Can't spell very well but shook OK.

[kombi1976]

I reload everything.
When you own rifles in 9.3x62, which is prohibitively expensive, or 303/25, a wildcat, you need to.
Plus to wring the most of out my 8x57JS and my 25-20 Martini hand loading is much cheaper.
I get better performance from my 22 Hornet too.
And 7x57 brass is easy enough to get.
If I HAD to buy factory ammo.....mmmm, not sure how much that would cost.
Used to be at least AUD$27 per 20, definitely more since our dollar took a dive.

[gofish]

Thanks for the reply. I have been to AUZ six times. Mostly biz. and fishing. Last time i was there (six yeas ago) I ran into two Roo hunters. Got a shooting permit and went with them one nite. I could realy get into it .

Can't speel very well but shoot OK.

[kombi1976]

I'm pleased you had a good time roo shooting.
It isn't really hunting in the real sense but it's something different for you guys.
BTW, which state did you get the permit to shoot in?

[gofish]

South western NSW. You have great fly fishing there also. I also understand that when the rabbit population explodes it can get realy interisting . I looked into a shooting trip to AUZ and was quite expensive , hard to import a rifle into country. Is .204 ruger ammo hard to get ?

Can' spell very well but shoot OK

[kombi1976]

Don't think 204 is too hard to get.
It's a new fangled popular round so that makes it relatively easy.
It's certainly suitable for small game and predators but the law says it isn't big enough for roos.
You need a scoped .222 with a 55gr pill at good velocity as the legal minimum for roo shooting.

[jro45]

How about the 270 Win Mag?

[kombi1976]

How about the 270 Win Mag?

If you mean 270 WSM then yes, it isn't too hard to come by.

[kombi1976]

Just thought I'd let those of you who subscribed to this thread know what I decided on.
I finally went to the dark side and ordered the Ruger No1 Tropical in 450/400 NE 3".
Brass is exy to say the least dies are pretty spendy too, at least here in Oz.
If all I loaded it with was 400gr RNSNs and Solids like the Woodleigh Weldcore it would also be prohibitively expensive to shoot at $53 per 50.
But the bore diameter is identical to pistol rounds like 41 Rem Mag and 41 Action Express.
The major bullets manufacturers like Sierra and Speer make 210gr JHCs and JHPs in 41 cal which would make perfect moderate power low recoil pills for medium game like goats and hogs.
And local cast bullet manufacturers Hawkesbury River Bullet Co and Westcasting make coated pills capable of being driven to around 1800fps.
Hawkesbury makes a Blackhawk-coated 210gr FP and Westcastings make a Gold Match 215gr SWC.
I should be able to milk 38-55 power out of it for target plinking and maybe some small and medium game hunting.
And since the Westcasting pills are $90 per 1000 that means they cost 9c a pill instead of $1.06 a hit.
And the lighter load is easier on that brass.
But the wait of Rugers in Oz, especially No1s, is really long here so it'll be a while before I get it.
Expect to see some pics and a range report in the Big Bore forum.

[nomosendero]

Great!!

[Silvertp]

Never met a #1 I didn't like.  Sounds like youve figured out a more economical way to enjoy your thumper as well.

Silvertp

[kombi1976]

Well, I had to find an affordable way otherwise it wouldn't have been an option.
I like to shoot my guns, not just store them.
If any decent 280 Rems had stuck their heads up at the time I probably would've bought one but they all seem to be mountain rifles?
Why can't SOMEONE build a 280 that weighs 7.5lbs or there abouts and has a standard contour bbl?!
Madness!
Anyway, I just configured a 150gr load for my 8x57 project rifle and it has a max PBR of 276yds with 5.4" drop at 300yds.
What a 280 could offer me above that is difficult to argue so, to quote that English 1980s singer Yazz, "The only way is up!" 
And the cool thing about the 450/400 NE is that if I REALLY get a hankering for some playing about I could try black powder loads.
The wife was certainly placated by the 9c per bullet cost.
Unfortunately she doesn't look at the savings made by reloading......she just looks at the overall cost.
But for that cheapness I don't think anyone can argue......except perhaps over the amount of powder it will probably use.
The original load for the 400gr pill was 60gr of cordite.
I don't know what that adds up to with modern powders and I also don't know how I'll have to reduce it for cast bullets but I suspect I'll be using up a bit of dacron!

[Coyote Hunter]

Kombi -

I can't tell you what to do - of the options listed I like both the .280 and the 7x57, rifles and cartridges. 

[billy_56081]

Kombi one thing you might consider if doable in Auz is to buy a small ring mauser action, get an A&B barrel from Midway and build your own in 7 or 6.5. I built a rifle for my son in 6.5 and it tips the scale at 7.5 lbs with a scope on it.

[Chappers]

its not a 450/400 but in usedguns.com.au

Ruger No 1 Tropical 458 Win Mag, $1500
Comments are, Made in 1984 & far superior to recent production. Superb blue, exc wood to metal fit, uniform stock finish with no open grain. Dies, 100 new cases. Best we've seen.