Author Topic: TC Triumph (Read 4689 times)

kinslayer1965 · « **on:** April 26, 2009, 11:17:51 AM »

I was in north florida turkey hunting this last weekend and stopped by the Wal-Mart in Valdosta Georgia sat night just to nose around he sporting goods to see what was available.

Right there on the gun rack was a TC Triumph marked "clearance" $225.00.

Is this as good a deal as I think it is? When I got home I looked in cabelas and they have them priced at $429.99. Is there something wrong with this gun that I don't know about?

Oh and by the way I bought it.

CR

DEACONLLB · « **Reply #1 on:** April 26, 2009, 12:08:18 PM »

There is nothing wrong with the gun as I have one and love it but I got mine from ed for 335.00 You will find that the TC loads hard if you do not swob between shots as they have a tight bore but I find it to shoot and pattern well you will like it. they close them out at our local store for 295.00
Deaconllb

bubba · « **Reply #2 on:** April 26, 2009, 02:21:09 PM »

the reason for the close outs is because they are coming out with a new model called the triumph bone collector. it has the flex tech stock an inch shorter than the triumph you got as well as weather shield. I have had a triumph since they first came out. I paid over 400 for mine at my local gun shop. It shoots well and I am very pleased with it. By the way the new bonecollector is 590 bucks at midsouth. So you got a deal on a good gun.

rt_con · « **Reply #3 on:** April 26, 2009, 02:29:54 PM »

You got a great buy !

Get some BH209, Harvester Short Black sabots and a .452 bullet. I think you'll be real happy.

kinslayer1965 · « **Reply #4 on:** April 26, 2009, 03:58:29 PM »

BH209? Not pyrodex?

New to the muzzleloading craft. I have ordered some Hornady 240XTP and 300XTP. Was going to pick up some pyrodex from gander but will accept advice gladly. Also is the max load 100 grains of powder or 150?

bubba · « **Reply #5 on:** April 27, 2009, 12:23:25 AM »

BH209 is the latest craze. It is much cleaner than then holy black or substitutes. However retails much higher too. Believe me I have been muzzleloading for many years. You will need to try some diferent combinations to see what your particular gun likes. Pyrodex will work just fine in that gun, but you will have to swab out between shots to keep your accuracy up. Everyone will tell you their favorite load combination and it may work well in their gun, but not yours. It takes a while to find what works, so have some fun play around and enjoy. Mine personally likes triple 7 ffg 110 grains and a 150 grain lead bullet in a green harvestor crush rib sabot. Good luck and keep us posted

rt_con · « **Reply #6 on:** April 27, 2009, 03:35:27 AM »

Quote from: bubba on April 27, 2009, 12:23:25 AM

BH209 is the latest craze. It is much cleaner than then holy black or substitutes. However retails much higher too. Believe me I have been muzzleloading for many years. You will need to try some diferent combinations to see what your particular gun likes. Pyrodex will work just fine in that gun, but you will have to swab out between shots to keep your accuracy up. Everyone will tell you their favorite load combination and it may work well in their gun, but not yours. It takes a while to find what works, so have some fun play around and enjoy. Mine personally likes triple 7 ffg 110 grains and a 150 grain lead bullet in a green harvestor crush rib sabot. Good luck and keep us posted

+1 to what bubba said.

I'm sure lots of powder/bullet combinations will work in your gun. I don't have a Triumph, but my hunting buddy does. (I have an Omega and a Knight). My guns shot very good with Pyrodex and T7. My buddy's Triumph seems to have a tighter bore than my Omega and was most accurate with BH209, 250gr Shockwave in the Harvester Short Black sabot. My Omega and another Encore really like the 300 XTP, Harvester Short Black sabot with BH209 or T7. So you have experiment to find the best load for your particular gun.

The Hornady bullets (240 & 300) you ordered are a good starting point. With Pyrodex, I'd start at 90grs and go up in 5 grain increments and see how it shoots.

Good Luck !

DennyRoark · « **Reply #7 on:** April 27, 2009, 06:35:59 AM »

Keep in mind that 120gr loose Pyro = 150gr of pellets. Don't know about T7.

grouse · « **Reply #8 on:** April 27, 2009, 03:09:34 PM »

110grns of BH209
Federal 209A primer a must
Harvester short black sabot
250grn T/C ShockWave bullet

Pretty accurate combination

sabotloader · « **Reply #9 on:** April 27, 2009, 03:24:20 PM »

DennyRoark

Quote

Keep in mind that 120gr loose Pyro = 150gr of pellets. Don't know about T7.

I do not think that is correct information... All of the Pyros are rated at the equivelent of real Black Powder - so 150 grains of Pyro ='s 150 grains of most black powders. And pellets including T7 pellets ( but excluding T7 Mag pellets) are loaded to tbe equivelent to 150 grains of real black powder. T7 pellets even though they say 50 grains do not equal 50 grains of loose T7 but are close to 50 grains of Pyro or real BP. Pyro P is the exception as it is closer to 3f black powder

T7 is 15% stronger than regular BP according to Hodgkins so 120 grains of T7-2f is approximately equal to 150 grains of Pyro or real BP. T7-3f is claimed to be an additonal 10% stronger than 2f.

bubba · « **Reply #10 on:** April 27, 2009, 03:28:33 PM »

actually it is correct. if you plan to use loose triple 7 or pyrodex 120 grains of loose triple7 or pyrodex is equivalent to 150 grains of pellets. Most gun manufacturers will say that in their info. In other words do not exceed 120 grains of loose powder.

sabotloader · « **Reply #11 on:** April 27, 2009, 05:18:55 PM »

bubba

Quote

actually it is correct. if you plan to use loose triple 7 or pyrodex 120 grains of loose triple7 or pyrodex is equivalent to 150 grains of pellets. Most gun manufacturers will say that in their info. In other words do not exceed 120 grains of loose powder.

I do not know where you are getting your information... but on page 51 of the Triumph manual it lists the max load as 150 grains FFG of Black Powder and or 3 50 grain Pellets. On page 50 it lists 150 grains of FFG powder for a 400 grain bullet in a TC Mag express sabot.

For Use With .50 Caliber
Thompson/Center Triumph™
Using Bullet & Sabot Listed
Use #209 Primer
.50 Caliber Rifle
Using Black Powder &
Mag Express™ Sabots
For Use
With Bullets
Weighing (Grains)
Black Powder
Charge (Grains)
Muzzle Velocity
(Feet Per Second)
Muzzle Energy
(Foot Pounds)
325 Grain
Bullet
100 grs. FFG 1451 F.P.S. 1520 Ft. Lbs.
120 grs. FFG 1555 F.P.S. 1745 Ft. Lbs.
150 grs. FFG 1710 F.P.S. 2110 Ft. Lbs.
400 Grain
Bullet
100 grs. FFG 1390 F.P.S. 1679 Ft. Lbs.
120 grs. FFG 1469 F.P.S. 1917 Ft. Lbs.
150 grs. FFG 1587 F.P.S. 2238 Ft. Lbs.

For Use With .50 Caliber
Thompson/Center Triumph™
Using Bullet & Sabot Listed
Use #209 Primer
.50 Caliber Rifle
Using 50 Gr. Equivalent Pyrodex®
Pellets & Shock Wave™ Bullets with
T/C Super Glide Sabots
For Use
With Bullets
Weighing (Grains)
Powder Charge
.50 caliber/50gr.
Pyrodex® Pellets
Muzzle Velocity
(Feet Per Second)
Muzzle Energy
(Foot Pounds)
250 Gr. Bullet
T/C Shock Wave™
in the
T/C Super Glide™
Sabot
2 Pellets 1863 F.P.S. 1927 Ft. Lbs.
3 Pellets 2197 F.P.S. 2680 Ft. Lbs.
300 Gr. Bullet
T/C Shock Wave™
in the
T/C Super Glide™
Sabot
2 Pellets 1729 F.P.S. 1992 Ft. Lbs.
3 Pellets 2036 F.P.S. 2762 Ft. Lbs.
Load Shown in Red is Maximum

For Use With .50 Caliber
Thompson/Center Triumph™
Using Bullet & Sabot Listed
Use #209 Primer
.50 Caliber Rifle
Using Black Powder &
Shock Wave™ Bullets with
T/C Super Glide™ Sabots
For Use
With Bullets
Weighing (Grains)
Black Powder
Charge (Grains)
Muzzle Velocity
(Feet Per Second)
Muzzle Energy
(Foot Pounds)
250 Gr. Bullet
T/C Shock
Wave™
in the
T/C Super
Glide™
Sabot
80 grs. FFG 1472 F.P.S. 1203 Ft. Lbs.
90 grs. FFG 1601 F.P.S. 1423 Ft. Lbs.
100 grs. FFG 1642 F.P.S. 1497 Ft. Lbs.
110 grs. FFG 1696 F.P.S. 1597 Ft. Lbs.
120 grs. FFG 1724 F.P.S. 1650 Ft. Lbs.
130 grs. FFG 1775 F.P.S. 1749 Ft. Lbs.
140 grs. FFG 1828 F.P.S. 1855 Ft. Lbs.
150 grs. FFG 1853 F.P.S. 1907 Ft. Lbs.
300 Gr. Bullet
T/C Shock
Wave™
in the
T/C Super
Glide™
Sabot
80 grs. FFG 1452 F.P.S. 1405 Ft. Lbs.
90 grs. FFG 1535 F.P.S. 1570 Ft. Lbs.
100 grs. FFG 1601 F.P.S. 1708 Ft. Lbs.
110 grs. FFG 1646 F.P.S. 1805 Ft. Lbs.
120 grs. FFG 1667 F.P.S. 1852 Ft. Lbs.
130 grs. FFG 1693 F.P.S. 1910 Ft. Lbs.
140 grs. FFG 1714 F.P.S. 1957 Ft. Lbs.
150 grs. FFG 1758 F.P.S. 2015 Ft. Lbs.
Load Shown in Red is Maximum

The reference to 120 grains is when talking about T7-2f loose powder, wich is equal to 150 grains of loose BP or 3 50 grain pellets..

You can download any of this at:
http://www.tcarms.com/manuals/

Here is a tablew that might interest you
150 grains of T7 pellets is equal to about 150 grains of loose BP or Pyro

150 grains of T7 pellets is equal to about 85 grains of loose T7-2f (TYPO, should read 100 grains of T7 pellets is equal to about 85 grains of loose T7-2F, instead of 150)

The Max load for an Encore is 150 grains of BP or Pyro Loose powder

The max load of T7 in a TC Encore is about 127 grain of loose T7-2f - because you need to reduce T7 by volume about 15% to equal BP or Pyro

100 grains of T7 by volume weighs approximately 77.7 grains

Load Shown in Red is Maximum

sabotloader · « **Reply #12 on:** April 27, 2009, 05:45:53 PM »

bubba

If you go to this sight it will explain to you that loose Pyro and loose BP produce the near the same results by volume but not by weight....

http://www.hodgdon.com/ml-warning.html

examples...

45 and 50 CALIBER RIFLE:
45 Caliber Pellets come in one size: 50 grain
50 Caliber Pellets come in two (2) sizes:
50 grain volume equivalent which equals 50 grains of loose powder by volume.
30 grain volume equivalent which equals 30 grains of loose powder by volume.

Pyrodex is lighter in weight than blackpowder and weighs only about 70% as much
as blackpowder. However, because Pyrodex yields more energy per pound than does
blackpowder, the same volume of Pyrodex gives similar performance to blackpowder.
Pyrodex loads given in this manual for muzzleloading guns are measured
by volume, not weight.

DennyRoark · « **Reply #13 on:** April 28, 2009, 02:54:34 AM »

Sorry, maybe this part should be in a different thread...All I know is that my Knight book says 120gr loose Pyro RS or 150gr Pyro pellets. Just hate to hear of someone's gun going BOOM instead of bang. You got yourself a DEAL on that Triumph! Probably at or near cost! Now go out and get yousef a biggun'!

sabotloader · « **Reply #14 on:** April 28, 2009, 10:57:13 AM »

DennyRoark

Denny, I think if you look at your manual you will see that the 120 refers to loose or pellets for projectiles weighing 300 and over.

If you look at projectiles 290 and lower you may see that Knight says 100-150 grains loose or pellets.... including loose T7

bubba · « **Reply #15 on:** April 28, 2009, 12:58:24 PM »

Where did I say compared to black powder. I said that 3 pellets of triple 7 or 150 grains is the equivlenet to 120 grains fo loose triple 7. The same goes for pyrodex and most other substitutes. 120 loose is equivelent to 150 pellets of the same powder. Since I have never seen actual black powder pellets the black powder equivelent is not what I was talking about.

sabotloader · « **Reply #16 on:** April 28, 2009, 03:39:21 PM »

Bubba

Quote

Where did I say compared to black powder. I said that 3 pellets of triple 7 or 150 grains is the equivlenet to 120 grains fo loose triple 7.

Sorry if I misunderstood your information.

Your statement above in quotes is correct. Three T7 pellets ='s 150 grains of Black Power loose or 150 grains of Pyrodex loose and are also equal to three 50 grain Pyrodex Pellets. T7 pellets are loaded down to equal Pyro loose or Pyro pellets or Black powder loose

Quote

The same goes for pyrodex and most other substitutes. 120 loose is equivelent to 150 pellets of the same powder.

This statement however is incorrect. Pyro is a direct sub by volume for blackpowder. Therefore 150 grains of Pyro or black powder measured by volume produce nearly the same results. 150 grains of any pellet other than T7 Mag pellets are equal to 150 grains of loose black powder or loose pyrodex.

The only loose sub you reduce by 15% is T7 loose.

150 grains of any pellet other than T7 Mag pellets is equal by volume to 120 grains (actually 122.5 grains) of T7-2f loose - which is also equal to 150 grains of black powder loose, Pyro loose or three 50 grain pellets of any kind except for T7 Mag pellets.

You might work your way through this thread for maybe a better explanation

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,154345.msg1098662996.html

There is another explanation on this site and it is written much better but I can not find it.

The one sub that goes againt all of thse rules is BH-209. It is a smokeless progressive burning powder and it's characteristics are different and effected by bullet weight.

kinslayer1965 · « **Reply #17 on:** April 28, 2009, 04:43:31 PM »

Wow lots of info to digest.

I had planned on using pellets probably pyrodex but now you;ve got me thinking about BH209. I like the idea that it burns cleaner but really wanted pellets for ease in hunting conditions. I have some experimenting to do.

Thanks again for all the info.

sabotloader · « **Reply #18 on:** April 28, 2009, 05:27:34 PM »

kinslayer1965

Bh shoots extremly well from a Triumph, you will also need to get some hot 209 primers, such as the Federal 209A, Winchester W209, or CCI 209M's.

Shooting pellets is certainly easier than shoot loose if you are beginning, but it is hard to replace the options you have shooting loose powder.

Buckskins & Black Powder · « **Reply #19 on:** April 29, 2009, 07:57:29 AM »

get some speed loaders and you will never know the difference between loose vs pellets. Well the cheaper cost of loose powder you WILL notice

kinslayer1965 · « **Reply #20 on:** April 29, 2009, 10:18:15 AM »

Who makes the speed loaders you speak of? I also read a few post about the Lehigh bullets and went to the webb site. Very impressive. Kind pricey. Anybody have any pros or cons on them.

I am starting to get really stoked about getting my rifle to the range. I still have to get bases and rings for my scope. I have a nice little nikon fixed 4 power that I think will do just fine. Should be a nice 150yard deer rifle.

Semisane · « **Reply #21 on:** April 29, 2009, 10:25:41 AM »

Quote

Who makes the speed loaders you speak of?

Get at least 50 of Lane's powder tubes (see link). You won't regret it.

http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=3035180

sabotloader · « **Reply #22 on:** April 29, 2009, 11:14:48 AM »

kinslayer1965

I think the best speedloader is made by TC...
https://secure.tcarms.com/store/index.php/action/item/id/197/prevaction/category/previd/33/prevstart/0/

I really do prefer the speedloader while hunting.

Lane's tubes - I have them also and use them on occasion on a range shoot. If I did more pre-measuring of sharges at the range I would certainly use them more, but I still like throwing the charge by volume on site... slows me down and allows the barrel to cool.

I am also using the Lehigh Bullets - they are an excellent hunting bullet but do carry a premium price. I am sure you would not want to shoot a lot of them at paper but you could shoot an alternative inexpensive bullet of the same weight and then check your POI with a Lehigh for hunting.