Author Topic: Need help on what automotive GPS to get.  (Read 2100 times)

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Offline Graybeard

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Need help on what automotive GPS to get.
« on: April 27, 2009, 12:02:01 PM »
We're gonna try to make it to the 5th Annual GBO PD shoot this year. That means a trip up US78 to Memphis to try and catch I55 I think it is to I40. I hate that city even tho I lived there when I was only two years old. I generally get so lost it take me forever to get where I need to be there. It also means going thru or around OK City, OK and that too is not high on my list of things to do in this life time.

I really want a GPS unit to put in the truck for this trip. I just don't know what to get.

It must be simple enough for a total computer illiterate idiot like me to program or use or whatever you do with them. It must speak to me to tell me when to turn in what direction and what street or road names or numbers what exit numbers ect to take.

I'd really like to be able to talk to it to ask questions rather than having to try to push buttons to query it when I need info. It must be as hands off as possible while I'm driving and as eyes off as possible as well.

It MUST get me to the right place at the right time each and every time between home and where we'll be traveling and back home day or night.

What the heck should I get?

I've thought of Tom Tom as the commercials for it sure make it seem easy. I know you guys have recommended one on sale at Wal-Mart also and Cabela's has several on sale now mostly Garmin I think which is the only brand of GPS I've ever owned. Of course I really never learned to do much more than set a way point and to find my way from where I am to that waypoint and even then I didn't pull that off every time.

This thing MUST be so simple even a complete computer idiot like me can make it work otherwise it's just an expensive paperweight.

While we're out there we hope to see much of OK and then to take a short trip into KS, NM, CO and the TX panhandle as well. We once expected to move to that region of the country when I retired but since I retired five years early the money to move wasn't there. We'd like to look over the areas we had talked of moving to tho just to see if we'd have liked it even tho we'll never live there.


Bill aka the Graybeard
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I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life!

Offline Siskiyou

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Re: Need help on what automotive GPS to get.
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2009, 08:35:05 AM »
The top three automotive gps manufactures, Garmin, Magellan, and Tom-Tom produce good products.  I kind of keep an eye out on gps pricing and have seen very few good deals at Cabela's on automotive gps units.  I have seen a few Cabela sales for long discontinue automotive gps units, and the prices were high.  Before buying from Cabela’s check out other online sources.  I have purchased other items from Cabela’s and been happy with my buy. 

http://www.tigergps.com/automotivegps.html carries the three major brands and good prices.  I have had good service from them.  Another online vendor with good prices for Garmin units is http://www.gpsnow.com/ .  You can order a unit from Wal Mart online and have it shipped to your nearest store, without shipping cost.  Wal Mart has good shipping prices. http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=10056574

A big problem for many users is that all voices do not work on units that follow voice commands.  I believe these systems are designed for a soft spoke person.  That I am not, and I have a problem with them.  I have been complimented by numerous field units that my voice comes across loud and clear in the field, but I cannot talk to the OnStar setup in my pickup.  My wife who speaks in a low, soft voice does not have a problem.

A friend that has a Magellan with Voice Command loves his unit.  He is a big man who speaks in a very low voice.

I was impressed with the one automotive Magellan manual I read.  I was not impressed with an early handheld manual. 

Before hitting the road with my Garmin unit I spent a fair amount of time going over the manual with the unit in hand.  It is not difficult to enter addresses.  A little trick I found when looking for businesses is to type in gun.  The unit then gives me business with gun in their name starting from the nearest, and expanding out.  If Bill’s Guns pops up, I select it, and then have the unit route me to the business.  When I am on a road trip and it looks like I am going to be in a certain community for the night I start looking for motels.  I will select one and the unit provides the phone number and address.  I call the motel and make a reservation after 1800 hrs, and confirm the address.  I then let the unit navigate me to the motel.

With an online price in your pocket you might want to visit some local retailers and try out the voice recognition system.  I doubt the systems will recognize and work with all the different accents around the country.  I found I had to speak in whisper mode to OnStar.


From Walmat:   

The nuvi 850 not only tells you where to turn but listens to your spoken commands. With nuvi's innovative speech recognition, you safely interface with your voice allowing you to keep both hands on the wheel. Simply press the button on the remote, which attaches to the steering wheel, to activate speech recognition and begin speaking menu options. It even recognizes shortcut phrases for popular functions. Simply say, "Find Address", and speak an address to start navigating.

Note: California and Minnesota state laws prohibit drivers from using suction mounts on their windshields while operating motor vehicles. Optional dashboard or friction mounts should be used in these states.
      
Key Features & Benefits:

   •  3.81" x 2.25" color LCD touchscreen, 480 x 272 pixels
   Presents a clear picture in your choice of a three-dimensional navigation view or "bird's eye" overhead view

   •  Pre-loaded City Navigator NT street maps for U.S., Canada and Puerto Rico
   Provides detailed street data and custom points of interest can be entered

   •  Choice of route setup by time or distance
   Gives step-by-step directions on how to get to your destination

   •  Speaks street names
   Delivers audible instructions through the internal speaker, such as "Turn right on Elm Street in 500 feet."

   •  Internal memory and microSD card slot
   Offers convenient built-in memory to store pre-programmed maps and can also read data from optional microSD memory cards

   •  Rechargeable lithium-ion battery
   Lasts up to four hours before recharging

The above is an example; I have never used the 850.  The unit comes with a built in battery.  When planning a trip I will unplug my c550 from the vehicle power outlet and take it into the house to plug in address.  I can then select them while in route as needed.  The other option is that my wife has type in an address while we were on the go.  It gives her something to do.
There is a learning process to effectively using a gps.  Do not throw your compass and map away!

Boycott: San Francisco, L.A., Oakland, and City of Sacramento, CA.

Offline Glanceblamm

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Re: Need help on what automotive GPS to get.
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2009, 05:18:18 AM »
We bought a Tom-Tom unit per say a couple years ago when the daughters job moved her from Springfield, IL to Indianapolis, In.

On the maiden voyage that Tom-Tom took us to five different addresses (two work related and three more for apartments) inside and outside the loop without a hitch!

With the unit mounted low on the dash, and angled slightly towards the driver it proved to hardly be a distraction for the driving and would allow plenty of time for lane changing and such.

Towns and addresses are easy to find and the (find alternate route) works very well in the case of construction or traffic accidents. The Unit is easy to see and it is kinda surreal while in town because
you can see the labled side streets to include RR tracks and look out the window and they are right there!

The reciever picks up the satellite signal quickly and has it's own battery as it is also designed for pedestrian usage. The deviation of the signal to your actual position seems to be minimal to none. I believe that on a Closed road course, this thing would allow you to keep your car on the road on a dark & foggy night with your head lights shut off as you can see your vehical posted as a cursor in relationship to the road.

My suggestion would be to buy the unit of your choice asap so you can get used to it in your local surroundings. You can give it a good workout to include rural route addresses (finds them just fine) or even make trips to nearby towns. My brother owns a Garmin unit and the user interface on it plus the Tom-Tom are very user friendly indeed.

Quote
It MUST get me to the right place at the right time each and every time between home and where we'll be traveling and back home day or night.
You will be ok on the right place but not at the right time as you will still have to leave early or drive hard hahaha

I do not own one myself but I love the technology. I am kind of primitive and will still use the Delorme Street Atlas program to create a route then download this info into my old Garmin Gps 12.




Offline pmeisel

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Re: Need help on what automotive GPS to get.
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2009, 06:03:15 AM »
My son used to sell them when he worked at West Marine and became quite familiar with all the offerings.  Even at a marine store they sold quite a few for automotive use.

He was most impressed with the Garmin products. 

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Need help on what automotive GPS to get.
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2009, 06:11:45 PM »
OK my Garmin Nuvi 850 arrived today via UPS from Wal-Mart. Matt is coming over tomorrow to set it up for me and hopefully show me how to use it. I'll likely have to get him to program it for our trip but once that's done maybe it will get us there and back.


Bill aka the Graybeard
President, Graybeard Outdoor Enterprises
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I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life!

Offline bilmac

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Re: Need help on what automotive GPS to get.
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2009, 07:10:56 PM »
You'll love it, it is worth the effort to learn. Sometimes they don't know about new roads, so you should be prepared to follow some unusual routes at times. To learn how to use it I would suggest you make the missus drive on a few trips while you sit and play with the buttons. On our recient trip out east, we had some vehicle trouble, and the GPS took us to a Dodge dealer. We didn't even have to find a phone book to find an address.

My unit was supposed to mount to the windshield with a suction cup. I rigged a metal L bracket to it and mounted a heavy duty magnet on the dash of the car and PU.

Offline Siskiyou

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Re: Need help on what automotive GPS to get.
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2009, 07:26:04 PM »
Congratulations!  Getting home is easy once you tell it where home is, after that hit the home button and it will take you there.  I took care when locating the sticky dash board mount plate.  Once it is put in place it stays.
There is a learning process to effectively using a gps.  Do not throw your compass and map away!

Boycott: San Francisco, L.A., Oakland, and City of Sacramento, CA.

Offline Siskiyou

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Re: Need help on what automotive GPS to get.
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2009, 07:41:52 PM »
Bill,
Check this video out gives you a good over view of the Garmin 850.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Shu8XWVmsCA
There is a learning process to effectively using a gps.  Do not throw your compass and map away!

Boycott: San Francisco, L.A., Oakland, and City of Sacramento, CA.

Offline Glanceblamm

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Re: Need help on what automotive GPS to get.
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2009, 03:58:18 AM »
Congratulations!...It did cross my mind a couple posts up to give the unit to Matt or Heather to figure out the operation but decided that they might not want give it back ;). I really do believe that you will greatly enjoy that Garmin. What you will really like is that the unit will keep you in the right lane when those tall semi tractor trailors are blocking your view of the signs at the exchanges.

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Need help on what automotive GPS to get.
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2009, 05:40:40 AM »
Quote
To learn how to use it I would suggest you make the missus drive on a few trips while you sit and play with the buttons.

Since she doesn't drive that's really not an option. It sure would be nice if she did so we could switch off driving duty on long trips but she has never learned and has no interest in doing so.

Since I never know for certain if I'll be able to get us back when we go very far from home I've bought a program that foots the bill to do so should I become unable to. They will make necessary medical arrangements and even air lift me to medical care and/or home if needed and her as well and will pay to get the truck back home or to have one of the boys come get it.

I'm toying with the idea of extending it to include WY in addition to the currently planned KS, CO, NM and TX side trips on the way home.


Bill aka the Graybeard
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I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life!

Offline Siskiyou

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Re: Need help on what automotive GPS to get.
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2009, 08:07:47 AM »
Bill,
Those plans pay off.  A friend of my father-in-law had such a plan.  He had medical problems in Baja.  The plan flew him and his wife back to a hospital in the States for medical care.  In addition the plan paid my father-in-law to go down into Baja, and return the man’s new diesel pickup from six hundred miles below the border.

A couple features you might want to be familiar with on your new gps:

The Where Am I feature will pin point your location in case you need roadside assistance.  You can call tell others where you are in a strange area.

The second feature you find by touching the Where To Icon>>the select the Points of Interest Icon, this will give you a number of options from food, motels, to hospitals starting at the nearest and expanding outward.  You have to scroll up and down the list by using the up and down arrows.
Your unit can be powered from the power outlet in your pickup.  It is recommended that you allow the battery to fully charge.  You can do this in your normal running around or on your road trip. 

Initially you might want to work with your unit at home and have no immediate travel plan.
You can connect your unit to the USB connection on your computer.  Use the provided USB to mini USB cable provide with the unit.  The screen on the gps unit will show it connected to the computer.  The battery will charge while connected to your computer, page 56 of your manual.  It maybe a little late, but getting the charge up before Matt shows up would be a good idea.

Most guys are age do not have 20-20 hearing.  To hear directions from my unit have to have the sound turned up higher then my wife.  Mrs. Siskiyou has to live with it, or do the driving.
There is a learning process to effectively using a gps.  Do not throw your compass and map away!

Boycott: San Francisco, L.A., Oakland, and City of Sacramento, CA.

Offline bilmac

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Re: Need help on what automotive GPS to get.
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2009, 11:49:27 AM »
If you scream through Wyo on Interstate 80 like about half of tourists do you'll wonder what is so special about Wyoming. You need to get into the northern parts where the mtns are.  Let me know if i can help you any way.

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Need help on what automotive GPS to get.
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2009, 06:06:10 PM »
After looking over the WY side trip via Google Maps I decided we're not gonna be able to make it this trip. It added over 1500 miles to the trip and we're just not gonna be able to do that this time. I do still plan to head up to Dodge City and take a look at Marshall Dillon's town then over into SE Colorado then down into NM to Raton and likely a visit to the NRA range there. I'd like to see if my name really is on the wall there like I was promised it would forever be if I donated as much money as I did back then.

From there we'll head to I30 and go across the TX panhandle to let Faye see the Ft. Sill area where her dad was stationed when in the Army. I want to visit some folks in SE OK on the way home then we'll catch I20 in Texas and head home. We'll rack up around 3000 miles on the trip.


Bill aka the Graybeard
President, Graybeard Outdoor Enterprises
256-435-1125

I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life!

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Need help on what automotive GPS to get.
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2009, 06:15:40 PM »
OK I watched the video. Did that gal have a GPS? I must have missed that.  ;D

Seriously I don't have the little thing for the steering wheel voice control in my box. Do you think that's an option or supposed to have been in there? She kinda indicated it should be there I thought.


Bill aka the Graybeard
President, Graybeard Outdoor Enterprises
256-435-1125

I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life!

Offline Siskiyou

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Re: Need help on what automotive GPS to get.
« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2009, 06:54:01 PM »
A good training video holds the students attention.  In this case it may have been a distraction.
Item #3 is the Remote for voice activation.

What's in the Box:

o   nüvi 850
o   Preloaded City Navigator® NT for North America
o   Remote for voice activation
o   Vehicle suction cup mount*
o   Vehicle power cable
o   USB cable
o   Dashboard disc
o   Quick start manual

I do not know what your best option is, Wal Mart or Garmin Support.  My dealings with Garmin Support has been good.  They might send you the part.  They sent me replace 530HCx.  It took better than a week to get here.

I try and call them first thing in the morning.  You might be on hold 15-20 minutes, they have told me 30 minutes but have got to me in about 10-minutes.  Helps to have your product serial #.  Normally I use the phone next to the computer so that I can entertain myself while waiting.  I normally start with a cup of coffee at hand.  Of course the first stop is the bathroom before I dial the phone.

Garmin Support Phone
US: (913) 397-8200 - Monday - Friday: 8 am - 7 pm CST
US Toll Free: 1-800-800-1020 - Monday - Friday: 8 am - 7 pm CST
Canada: 1-866-429-9296 - Monday - Friday: 8 am - 7 pm CST


 
There is a learning process to effectively using a gps.  Do not throw your compass and map away!

Boycott: San Francisco, L.A., Oakland, and City of Sacramento, CA.

Offline bilmac

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Re: Need help on what automotive GPS to get.
« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2009, 02:22:07 AM »
Avoid Denver if you can, otherwise trust your GPS to get you through the Interstate Spaggetti. There are camping spaces at NRA West if they aren't full of shooters. The Raton - Trinidad Colo. area is a nice bit of country.

Offline Glanceblamm

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Re: Need help on what automotive GPS to get.
« Reply #16 on: May 07, 2009, 04:32:05 AM »
Ok, you guys suckered me into watching that video and "Sam" was nice indeed.

Siskiyou...I was paying enough attention to hear Sam say (If you know a coordinate, you can punch it in) Does this mean a Lat\Long coordinate? if so, it may be a feature that I am interested in as far as the automotive GPS units go.

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Need help on what automotive GPS to get.
« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2009, 04:35:18 AM »
As it turns out I was mistaken. I took another look this morning and it was there I just didn't recognize it for what it was at first. Why I dunno but it was in there after all.


Bill aka the Graybeard
President, Graybeard Outdoor Enterprises
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I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life!

Offline Siskiyou

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Re: Need help on what automotive GPS to get.
« Reply #18 on: May 07, 2009, 07:30:25 AM »
The mark of success of a good marketing video is when the viewer cannot focus on other items, in this case what is in the box.  Disconnected male Id is not abnormal.  In most cases the condition is temporary. Once the distraction is removed the brain starts the refocusing process.
 
I am glad you found the item you were looking for.

Quote from Garmin.

Entering Coordinates If you know the geographic coordinates of your destination, you can use your nuvi to navigate to your destination using the latitude and longitude coordinates.”

Page 12 of the Manual.
There is a learning process to effectively using a gps.  Do not throw your compass and map away!

Boycott: San Francisco, L.A., Oakland, and City of Sacramento, CA.

Offline Glanceblamm

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Re: Need help on what automotive GPS to get.
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2009, 09:32:03 AM »
Quote
Entering Coordinates If you know the geographic coordinates of your destination, you can use your nuvi to navigate to your destination using the latitude and longitude coordinates.”

Page 12 of the Manual.

Graybeard, If you were wanting to take a very short walk you could punch in
N33 49.446
W85 53.565

To check out that feature.

Offline Siskiyou

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Re: Need help on what automotive GPS to get.
« Reply #20 on: May 09, 2009, 04:47:40 PM »
glanceblamm:  I do not have a new, fancy automotive gps like Graybeard.  I have the older c550 and while it will not take a Lat/Long directly it can be done.

I take advantage of using the Waypoint tool in Map Source; I have done this in Topo 2008 and City Navigator.  The wife and I are planning a trip to Yosemite NP.  We do not want to do a lot of back tracking coming and going so we well use two different routes.  I created about a dozen waypoints using road junctions indentified looking at Map Source.  When the waypoint is created the LAT/LONG appears in the waypoint list.  If I had a known LAT/LONG or UTM using the Edit, New Waypoint route in Map Source I can add the location to the Waypoint list in Map Source.

I inserted a SD card into my computer card reader and used the options to transfer data to the SD card.
 
I inserted the SD card in my c550.  I then went to the Favorites Icon in the c550 and found that my new waypoints had been installed.
There is a learning process to effectively using a gps.  Do not throw your compass and map away!

Boycott: San Francisco, L.A., Oakland, and City of Sacramento, CA.

Offline Glanceblamm

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Re: Need help on what automotive GPS to get.
« Reply #21 on: May 10, 2009, 05:24:28 AM »
Very Cool Siskiyou!

Offline Glanceblamm

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Re: Need help on what automotive GPS to get.
« Reply #22 on: May 12, 2009, 04:18:09 AM »
Quote
I take advantage of using the Waypoint tool in Map Source; I have done this in Topo 2008 and City Navigator.  The wife and I are planning a trip to Yosemite NP.  We do not want to do a lot of back tracking coming and going so we well use two different routes.  I created about a dozen waypoints using road junctions indentified looking at Map Source.  When the waypoint is created the LAT/LONG appears in the waypoint list.  If I had a known LAT/LONG or UTM using the Edit, New Waypoint route in Map Source I can add the location to the Waypoint list in Map Source.


Dumb question for you Siskiyou, are you using resident software on your PC for this (say a purchased mapping program) or are you using an online sorce?. Mine is all purchased from Delorme or even an aviation software program that I own. My Delorme needs updated though.

Offline Siskiyou

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Re: Need help on what automotive GPS to get.
« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2009, 06:27:04 AM »
I am using Garmin Map Source 2008 Topo and City Navigator which are installed on my computer.  I can transfer maps and waypoints to my c550 using a chip.  These mapping products can be bought at a number of sources for about a $20 discount.

I have not re-installed the older DeLorme software on my computer after taking it down a while back.  I was able to transfer waypoints in both directions from my Garmin handheld using the DeLorme software.  I could not transfer maps.

What brand and model of handheld gps do you have?
There is a learning process to effectively using a gps.  Do not throw your compass and map away!

Boycott: San Francisco, L.A., Oakland, and City of Sacramento, CA.

Offline Glanceblamm

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Re: Need help on what automotive GPS to get.
« Reply #24 on: May 13, 2009, 05:09:28 AM »
I fear that I am woefully behind the times Siskiyou as I am still running a Garmin GPS 12.
I figure that this unit was new in 1999 when I received it as a gift. I wanted one as early as 1986 and it is hard to believe that at that time, they cost $10,000 with the signal being degraded to 100 meters (on a good day) for civilian usage.

I am still very happy with this unit and have ran it like a rental car so to speak. My usage has ranged from street to trail to air!. It works just as well shut off (read simulator mode) as it does when connected to the satellites providing that you are at a stored waypoint of course. It has a road on it but it does not have any idea which road it is! This is simplified by routes and marks entered via PC software as you know. Extensive road travel to include a wide area once at a destination is solved by laptop, Delorme software, and the locate by Lat/Lon with those numbers initially being provided by the Garmin. Accuracy is usually phenomenal.

I seem to get a little bit more out of the unit as I have used the perimeter (or warning) feature and also have gone as far as to let the unit run it’s own course in the field to shoot a straight unobstructed line through a field based on heading, time, and mph. This can be a nice feature, (say in our 7000 acre Sanginoids) when eyeballing that distant landmark with no time left to walk out the course but with the intent to return before light the next morning. I can send the unit out on a trip of it’s own ranging from 1mph to 999mph I believe.

There is some redundancy here of course but it depends on how much you like playing with it and how much testing of the features one likes and I do enjoy this very much. I have strived hard to get this thing to tell me a lie but that has never happened!. At one time, I wanted to post a GPS scavenger hunt in the local newspaper with the reward being a $20 bill. I had an extensive course worked out in areas that would allow public access but I was still working out the details on how to receive instruction at the next coordinate when I heard of a new game called GEOCACHE! I received no royalties hahaha.

Other Units I Have Used…
Were the 2004 model Garmin unit that was triangular shaped so as to sit on a cars dash. I had the opportunity to take one of these on a 150mile trip and it worked very well as it displayed the Interstates, County two lanes, and other rural routes on the built in map.

In 2006, a friend had won one of the Magellan  units. This was one of those yellow e-trecks I believe and he gave it to me to wring it out so as to educate him on the usage. Took me about 10min to get it figured out for basic usage. It was ok but I don’t think that it had the features that my GPS 12 does.
Back to present, I think the new automotive units are great. The Tom Tom sure put me and my wife’s mind at ease (along with the daughter) when her work place moved her to the relatively busy Indianapolis In and she had to navigate both inside and outside the loop to work and back home. It took her no time at all to expand her travels to food & clothing outlets and to add these to her favorites list until she got a feel for navigating in this strange and new area.

My interest has been rekindled in the automotive with Bill’s new purchase and the ability to punch in a coordinate. I always thought that this should be a feature although not really necessary. I can’t explain it but it seems like it is the way it should be. I could find some applications for this for sure.


Offline Siskiyou

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Re: Need help on what automotive GPS to get.
« Reply #25 on: May 13, 2009, 04:56:59 PM »
Glanceblamm:  You are a pioneer!  In 1999 I was reading a rare article about them.  A few years earlier I was exposed to a small, goose egg sized Garmin.  It repelled me.  The manual could have fit in a Chinese fortune cookie.  The GPS 12 was strides ahead of it.

The gps, laptop combination is a good way to go.  I am thinking of revisiting it.  My National Geographic Topo software displays Section lines and section numbers.  Using the laptop connected to my gps I can determined where I am in a section.  A lot of my hunting is done on different National Forest.  National Forest lands are displayed in green and other ownerships in different colors.  White being private ownership.  This is very important because every other section in some areas congress gave to the railroads for building the railroad.  These lands have gone into other ownerships over the years. 

A lot of boundaries are marked but in many cases they have been vandalized.

Memory is growing dim but I think it was 2000 on a helibase in Idaho.  Nobody was flying and people were restless and bored because the aircraft were grounded.  I had noticed a Helitack member who  is a White Mountain Apache with a little yellow Garmin eTrex gps.*  I asked her about the gps and she gave me a good briefing.  She was knowledgeable, and a couple more Helitack members added their two bits.  These crews are normally flown into wildfires and dropped off or repel in to fire the fire or build a helispot.  It is critical that they know where they are in strange country.
 
I was already a year behind you already.  But it was not until I witnessed the mapping work they were doing on the Rattlesnake fire in Utah in 2002 that I was ready to buy.   Daily they were flying the ever expanding fire with a gps in hand recording the perimeter of the fire, creating waypoints for hot spots, and drop points for supplies and manpower.  I planned on buying one when I returned home.  In route home I was intercepted and sent to Southern Oregon for a month.
 
About the only thing I was able to do regarding a gps was tell my wife over the phone that I wanted one.

In Oregon I ran into a true professional.  He used two different gps units when fighting fire and when he was back on his home unit planning projects in the forest.  In one hand he had the yellow eTrex and in the other a mapping Magellan.  When asked for a recommendation he said they were both good.  Again I was seeing the daily planning maps on the fire which they were creating using data generated when they flew the fire lines with a helicopter, gps in hand.

When I returned home in October 2002 I was ready to buy.  I decided I wanted a mapping gps.  I was already three years behind you.

I was impressed with my Son’s Tom Tom which he uses daily at work.  I think they are a good product. About 12 months ago I bought the discontinued Garmin c550 automotive gps.  One of the factors was a change in law regarding cellphone use while driving.  The c550 has Bluetooth that matches my cellphone.  A couple of months later a friend bought a Magellan automotive gps that he talks to, similar to Graybeards new unit.  I was a little jealous, but not in the market.

As a consumer I cannot afford to keep up with the market.  I gave a brother my 76C loaded with Topo 2008 and City Navigator maps.  He is happy with it.  Frankly it is a better gps today than when I purchased it.  The primary reason is there are additional gps satellites in space, and some of them are transmitting a stronger signal.  Have you noticed the improve signals with you GPS-12?

*Even Native Americans are using gps units in the woods!
 :)
There is a learning process to effectively using a gps.  Do not throw your compass and map away!

Boycott: San Francisco, L.A., Oakland, and City of Sacramento, CA.

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Need help on what automotive GPS to get.
« Reply #26 on: May 13, 2009, 05:56:44 PM »
The GPS 12XL was my second GPS. I've forgotten the number on the first but it just could not get a lock on here at my house even after taking it to the highest point in the state to get an initial lock. I contacted Garmin and they said sent it back.

Once they tested it they said it was within spec and if it wouldn't do what I needed they'd upgrade me to the GPS 12XL for an even $100 bucks. I gave them a credit card number and in a few days it showed up. I must say it worked mighty well getting and holding a lock under total tree canopy and helped me find my way back to the truck several times when I had no clue where it was otherwise. I still have it but seldom using it anymore.


Bill aka the Graybeard
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I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life!

Offline Glanceblamm

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Re: Need help on what automotive GPS to get.
« Reply #27 on: May 14, 2009, 03:59:26 AM »
I am holding my own but really need to get some new software like your Nat Geo Topo addition. Also, and of great intrest, was a recent post here (X and Y coordinates) and member BILMAC'S (reply#2) on working with the UMT grid and forgetting about Lat\Lon. This is very intriging and I kind of know what he is talking about but am confused on what type of map is needed and how to add or subtract those numbers. It should be a very good principal for navigation and kind of reminds me of a CNC machine which is deadly accurate but on a much smaller scale of course. If bilmac should happen to read this, more basics would be appreciated but I will not bug him until I can give 100% on learning this. I am already up to my ears in Jeppson charts and all.

One day my Garmin will give up the ghost and I figure that the internal battery will be the first thing to go and all of my waypoints will be lost!...If/when this happens, I dont know if the unit will be junk (per prohibitive factory replacement cost as compared to a new purchase) or if they would be glad to see an old timer return home and perhaps recondition it at a minimal charge as can be the case with some products.
I do treat this unit with kid gloves and still remember the early warnings. A Gps unit can be dropped in a lake, stepped on, left behind on a stump, or have the battery's go dead via left on or such. Therefore, I take very good care of it but will still use a compass regularly to shoot headings in the field.

Quote
Frankly it is a better gps today than when I purchased it.  The primary reason is there are additional gps satellites in space, and some of them are transmitting a stronger signal.  Have you noticed the improve signals with you GPS-12?

When the gps models with the WAAS features came out I had planned to buy one for sure. But you know what?..with those extra satellites I can often get within 8 feet of a mark. The distance measure on the unit will only get you within 2/10th of a mile as you know but if you display just the blank screen with a mark you can get really close. If I get really picky I can switch to the highway mode while in the field and stand on top of that crosshair and almost be within touching distance of my mark.

Quote
The GPS 12XL was my second GPS. I've forgotten the number on the first but it just could not get a lock on here at my house even after taking it to the highest point in the state to get an initial lock. I contacted Garmin and they said sent it back.

This happened with my very first unit. It was a popular one but I cant remember the manufacture right now for the life of me. After two days of unsucessfully trying to get a signal, I returned it for an exchange. They did not have another one avalible but gave me the higher priced GPS 11 instead even up. Sometimes ya win.





 

Offline Siskiyou

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Re: Need help on what automotive GPS to get.
« Reply #28 on: May 14, 2009, 10:06:16 AM »
UTM is a good way to go, and there are a large number of sites on the net that has conversion charts. http://www.maptools.com/  I am providing an example to demonstrate how ingrained the LAT/LONG system is in the U.S.A.

  LAT/LONG is alive and well.  When a Federal or State of California air tanker, Lead Plane, and Helicopter are ordered the location is imputed in LAT/LONG and Township, Range, and Section.  The dispatcher imputes a LAT/LONG into the ordering system.

The initial dispatch goes out to ground forces for the proper command (Chief), geographic location (address), type of response, dispatch area, and then a check-in of responding units.  Normally the Township, Range, Section and Ľ Section is given.  If there is more than one Meridian on the unit the proper one will be identified.  Most State and Federal agency maps use this measurement along with LAT/LONG and UTM.

In the WildCad System and many other dispatch CADS once the dispatcher gets a report he/she enter the location into the system.  The system generates LAT/LONG in a number of formats and UTM.  The system also displays the Township, Range, and Section.

In a pre-season drill aircraft were requested in LAT/LONG hddd⁰mm’ss.s”.  The CAD maps are based on WGS 84. 

I.R. mapping flights are done late at night.  These are normally done on large fires with a lot of potential.  When the order goes into the system for the IR flight the order will identify a nearby community.  One with an airport helps.  Anniston (KANB)65˚, 16.5 miles.  The request will box in the area to be flown, N33˚45’27.9” W 85 33’ 34.5” and N33˚47’27.0 W85˚33’32.8”.  Fire name Coleman.  This information is checked by a qualified aircraft dispatcher for correctness. 

The different systems create confusion.  Search and Rescue is using UTM.  Every once and while the Military Grid system comes into play.  If you get a National Guard unit in they train in Military Grid.

Land surveys have changed over the years.  Most of the public land surveys in the West are based on Township, Range, and Section.  I can pick up a Forest Service or BLM map in the West and it will be broken up in Township, Range, and Section.  The map will also be in LAT/LONG, and UTM.  I am currently looking at a Topo Map dated 1953 and generated for aerial photographs from 1946, and field checked in 1953.  The map was updated using correction guides in 1978.  This map is setup in LAT/LONG and UTM.

If you have a Forest Service map for the nearby Talladega N.F.  let me know what units of measure are used.

Fortunately the gps user who leaves his unit set at the default settings or a switch to UTM does not need to worry about most of this.  One time I took a phone call from a lady who had a problem.  She said she was at A-12.  I told her we did not have an A-12.  Come to find out she was using an AAA map.  That reference did not work for me because I did not have an AAA map.  Does the travel map you buy at the service station identify A-12 as the same location as AAA.  I doubt it.  Enough of that for a minute, I just gave myself a headache.

A link to mapping and conversion tools.  http://www.maptools.com/
If your GPS-12 gives up the ghost put it in electronic recycle bin and start new.  In the world of electronics it has lived a very long life. 

Even with the gps our hunts have not changed a great deal.  Last fall we pulled up on an old logging landing, stood, pointed and made a plan.  We shoot a compass bearing on a tall, white pine snag on a far ridge, discussed how the hunt would go, and the meeting point near an old mine. 

The change:  We created a Waypoint where our vehicle was parked, and our gps units were in the Track Mode.  I had also created a Waypoint at an old mine shaft, with a Proximity Warning set.  Years ago I had killed a buck late in the evening ˝-mile below the shaft.  I was concerned about dropping into it in the dark when I hiked out in the moon light.

In the past when a buck was shot survey flagging would be placed the animal was standing at the shot.  On that morning I created a Waypoint in case tracking was need to recover the buck.  I had already created a waypoint at my ground stand. 

The next morning I was the driver and pickup guy.  As planned after my partners had time to get beyond where I killed my deer I used the gps to find the waypoint I created at my stand.  I picked up the empty .270 case, and went to the location the deer was standing at the shot.  I used my rangefinder to measure the distance for the record.  I went down to where the gut pile had been.  It appeared that a bear had already cleaned it up.  One of my hunting partners hopes to get that guy one day.  He does not need a gps or a map to find him, just being at the right spot at the right time.  I should note baiting and feeding of wildlife is illegal in California.
There is a learning process to effectively using a gps.  Do not throw your compass and map away!

Boycott: San Francisco, L.A., Oakland, and City of Sacramento, CA.

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Need help on what automotive GPS to get.
« Reply #29 on: May 14, 2009, 10:14:13 AM »
The internal battery on my Garmin GPS 12 XL did in fact go out a few years ago and I returned it to them for replacement of the battery. They were able to save some of my way points but most were lost. No big deal to me tho really. It can be replaced and isn't that expensive. To me the unit does all I'd ever want or need for a woods walking unit to do tho I admit that these days my woods walking days are about over as I have such a severe shortness of breath issue that walking other than flat land which is in short supply around here is nearly impossible for me.

Should it go out again as long as it's been since I used the unit it might have already I'd likely just return it to them again and have the internal battery replaced.


Bill aka the Graybeard
President, Graybeard Outdoor Enterprises
256-435-1125

I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life!