Author Topic: Anybody shoot a 45-70 pistol? (Read 2586 times)

Blackhawker · « **on:** April 28, 2009, 09:29:24 AM »

I've been thinking of buying a 45-70 barrel for my Contender but I wonder how often I'll shoot it. I'm not shy of recoil very much but it seems that most of the used barrels I find have (reportedly) only been fired 50 to 70 times...if even that many. That tells me that a lot of people buy these things, fire them and then get rid of them because they can't handle it. If anybody has one, how bad is it? I guess you'll have to make a comparison or something to give an example. Is it like a heavily loaded 45 Colt single action or a 44 mag? Worse?? 454 Casull revolver??

If you're an owner, do you have a scope mounted on it or does the recoil destroy scopes easily? What's the accuracy?

Any input is appreciated.
Thanks!

determined451 · « **Reply #1 on:** April 28, 2009, 11:05:25 AM »

I have one...it does not have a brake...it is the most unpleasant gun I have ever shot in my life...I have tried several loads...I have to make myself shoot a 5 shot group...to me...the recoil is very sharp...I have shot several 454's, and can do 30 rds. easy with it...any scope would need to be high quality...I'm not sure if a brake would actually help that much...for me...it is the only Contender I do not enjoy...I can get 3 shots under 2 inches at 100....but I really have to concentrate...just plain don't like the pain...somebody wrote...it kills on one end...cripples on the other...I believe it...D-451

Ken ONeill · « **Reply #2 on:** April 28, 2009, 11:17:34 AM »

Recoil from FA .454 and .475 Linebaughs don't begin to compare to the .45-70 in a Contender, if it's loaded to run a 400 @~ 1350 fps. Trapdoor level loads are are much lighter and run about 1100 fps.

Keith L · « **Reply #3 on:** April 28, 2009, 12:34:03 PM »

And trapdoor levels are what you are supposed to be using in a Contender (according to the Factory).

Lone Star · « **Reply #4 on:** April 28, 2009, 03:54:59 PM »

My current .45-70 Contender is a 16" carbine, but the 14" barrel I sold a few years ago was a handful. It was an SSK barrel Magnaported with a 2X Leupold in three Bushnell rings - a classic Handcannon setup. With relatively light loads - 300 and 400 grain bullets at 1000-1100 fps it was not at all bad, and shot 2 moa with loads it liked.

With top-end Trapdoor loads it was quite unpleasant for long strings at the bench. Offhand and in the field no problem. JD said that it needs the weight of the scope and mount to tame the recoil, and the porting helped a bunch. I can't say much about either as I never fired it without the scope and brake. My favorite loads were a 300-grain Hornady over 50 grains of H322, and a 400 Speer over 40 grains of H322. Both are below max listed Trapdoor loads but gave fine accuracy and all the recoil I could stand.

Neither load comes close to the top loads in my .50-70 barrel. No scope or ports and light as a feather, with 475 HPs at over 1250 fps it is truly brutal....

.

muffindrvr · « **Reply #5 on:** April 28, 2009, 04:20:11 PM »

i have a 14 with a muzzle brake on it and a 16 with a muzzle brake on it also love them both.great shooters...

JW/OK · « **Reply #6 on:** April 28, 2009, 04:46:15 PM »

My 45-70 barrel is a 12" factory ported in stainless. All I have shot are 300 grain factory loads. Recoil to me is no worse than max 240 grain loads thru my 4 5/8" SBH. Can manage 2" groups at 100 yards off the bench. Currently have a 2X Tasco on it and it seems to be holding zero OK. Have taken one Antelope at 130 yards so far.
When you shoot in the field your buddies know its you cause it don't sound like no rifle!

pab1 · « **Reply #7 on:** April 28, 2009, 06:28:05 PM »

I have a 14" (12"+2" port) barrel and the recoil is not bad. One of the best things about the .45-70 is the power it delivers at low pressures. I get the same ballistics with my handloaded 300 gr Hornady JHP & Nosler PSP that Winchester lists for their factory rounds from a rifle. I use H4198 for both loads and they are well below the max listed in Hodgdons trapdoor data. H4198 gives low pressures with high velocities and is very accurate in my short tube and my 20" Katahdin barrel.

Hopalong7 · « **Reply #8 on:** April 29, 2009, 03:35:19 AM »

Recoil is very different to different people. I find a .454Casull revolver very unpleasant to shoot but thoroughly enjoy shooting my Contender in 45-70. The 45-70 is often described as being loaded "mild to wild" and I think that is very true even while limiting yourself to the "trapdoor range". I shoot a 16" tapered, unbraked and unscoped barrel and a 14" scoped hunter barrel with the TC brake. The brake does make a difference...it reduces vertical movement of the gun by a lot...BUT...I think it increases the force of the recoil straight back into the palm of my hand. I've often thought that I wished the 14" barrel was not braked

FWIW I've also shot a BFR in 45-70 and found that to be a hoot(meaning I want one). I'm 64 years old, average size guy with smallish size arthritic hands and haven't been the toughest hombre in the gang for a long time(as if I ever was), but I still enjoy my 45-70 Contender. Now that doesn't mean I can sit down at the bench and rip off 100 rounds of my heaviest loads either. I would suggest, if at all possible, to try to find someone in your area with one and see if he'd let you shoot it a little...only way I know to tell.

GOOD SHOOTIN', Walt

Blackhawker · « **Reply #9 on:** April 29, 2009, 04:06:32 AM »

WOW! Thanks for all of the replies guys. I've got my eye on a barrel right now. It's a 12 inch hunter with porting. I guess that means it's only got about 10 inches of rifling though. I'd prefer a 14" hunter (actually about 15 inches) like the rest of my barrels. Since it's used and I can't argue with the price, I guess I can't be too picky.

Anyway, from the first couple of posts, I thought it didn't sound like a good idea to get one but after reading downward a little, I think I'm tempted once again. I'm a pretty recoil immune person thus far and I wasn't planning on firing my 500 grain loads though it....just 300 grain jacketed stuff for fun. I have no intention of hunting with it, I just think it might be fun to play with a little.

Again, thanks for the input. If I decide to buy it, I'll give a range report if/when I get a chance to shoot it. "IF"

Bullseye · « **Reply #10 on:** April 29, 2009, 06:46:38 AM »

I have a 14" Barrel (no ports) with open sights. It is fun to shoot. Sometimes I shoot it 3 times and say that is enough but have shot it as much as 30 times in an outing. I think it just depends on what kind of mood I am in and what else I have been shooting. It is a gun that others like to shoot when they see it. Some have been folks that have not shot guns much and they enjoy shooting it a couple of times and none really complain about it hurting that bad. It is one barrel I will always keep for one because it is a Super 14 without ports and they are hard to find and because it is kind of a novelty. I have shot a deer with it and it got the job done.

northkid · « **Reply #11 on:** April 29, 2009, 11:22:52 AM »

I am curious how the recoil is between the 45/70 and the 460 S&W? What grips do you guys like for the big bores?

pab1 · « **Reply #12 on:** April 29, 2009, 08:10:42 PM »

I like Pachmayr Decelerator grips for any Contender barrel from .22lr through 45-70. They fit my hand perfectly and handle recoil well. I have not shot a 460 S&W, but I shot a 500 S&W right after shooting my .45-70 (300 gr @ 1890 fps) and did not notice any difference in recoil.

Hopalong7 · « **Reply #13 on:** April 30, 2009, 12:32:28 AM »

Ditto....Pachmayr Decelerator....and I agree, it just feels good big boomers or not. The only time I don't use them(grip and forend) is when I'm trying to keep the weight down...they are a little heavy, but that's what absorbs the recoil too. No experience with .460 or .500 S&W.
GOOD SHOOTIN', Walt

Bullseye · « **Reply #14 on:** April 30, 2009, 06:50:15 AM »

I have the standard issue factory competitor grips on all my Contender Frames. It is all have used for 15 years or so. Just feels natural to me at this point.

I have never shot a 460 or 500 so I cannot compare.

Blackhawker · « **Reply #15 on:** April 30, 2009, 07:17:18 AM »

Well I bought the barrel today on an auction site. It's only 12 inches but it has a muzzle brake on it, fortunately. I don't know when I'll get to the range with it but when I do, I'll comment on my results. I'm actually looking forward to shooting it. I rather enjoy big bore pistols and I have no doubt that I'll love this one as well.

Thanks again to all of you who have added your comments. Believe it or not, it helped me out in making the decision as to buying the barrel.

By the way, I use the standard rynite T/C grip on my Contender but I tend to wear gloves when I shoot. I have a pair of sports gloves (I believe they are for wrestling or lifting) that have worked very well for me. Nice padding in the palm and web of the hand but tight and slender around the half fingers. I can shoot without them but I tend to shoot a hundred or more rounds at a time per pistol when I'm out playing.

jsh · « **Reply #16 on:** May 01, 2009, 02:17:42 AM »

"I tend to shoot a hundred or more rounds at a time per pistol when I'm out playing."

If you can do that with factory loads, in a 45-70, your a better man than most

.
I have had one for a few years now. I have shot everything in it from a 250 grain wadcutter to 500 grain spt type. The 500 is not recommended in the contender. I found some load data trapdoor loads for a 500 and loaded a few just to try. It is not supposed to shoo them very well. I had a pleasant suprise, they would stay in a nice 3" cluster at 100M, for 5 shots.
I played with it quite a bit one summer and ran across some good loads. It was shooting well enough that I decided to shoot a round of IHMSA with it. I ran 350's for the first 30 and the 500's just for the novelty of it on the rams. The rams didn't fall over they jumped off of the rail. I had a pretty good crowd watching the rams as the splash was about from the middle of the back to the bottom, like a big white line.
That was about as many as I have ever shot at one sitting. BTW I encourage you to shoot it as the last gun of the day rather than the first, it can and will take its toll on you no matter how big a fellow you are.
This was all with cast bullets by the way. I have not shot nor do I ever plan to shot a jacketed bullet in it.
14" SS hunter barrel.
I ran a load ramp that samme summer, there were about 40 rounds to go through. The last 10 I had to have my shooting buddy run them as I had all Iwanted.
I found for the most part that a mid range load or less to shoot as good as a top end in most average weights witha cast bullet. You don't need speed here as this thing has more energy left at 100 than a lot of calibers do at the muzzle.
Jeff

Blackhawker · « **Reply #17 on:** May 01, 2009, 03:39:42 AM »

Hi Jeff,
Well, I haven't fired a 45-70 from my pistol yet, (since I don't have the barrel as of yet) so I can't include the "100 rounds at a time or more" to this statement. Personally, from what I've read, I don't expect to fire more than 50 at a time and as you suggested, I will definitely make it my last pistol of the day to shoot. I'm not a big guy at all, I just wear a heavy glove!

I'm glad to hear that you're shooting cast bullets from your pistol. Thus far, most of my 45-70 loads (for my Buffalo Classic) have been hard cast and those have given me the best results. I typically shoot 500 grain bullets from it but I don't expect (or wasn't expecting) to shoot them from the pistol, not unless I only want to fire 10 or 20 and be done for the day. However, your info on the 500 grainers sounds intriguing. I may have to try that.

Thanks for the info. As I said above, when I get a chance to shoot mine, I'll leave a little note here on how it went.

Hopalong7 · « **Reply #18 on:** May 01, 2009, 04:06:58 AM »

Jeff, Have you had any problem with lead build up in the brake on your SS Hunter barrel? I have the same barrel and love to shoot cast but have only done so in my non-braked barrels having been told that it would be a problem. I've also got an Encore 18" Katahdan barrel w/ brake that I've not shot cast in. Walt

pab1 · « **Reply #19 on:** May 02, 2009, 06:25:15 AM »

Neither my 14" Contender or my 20" Katahdin factory barrels have throats cut to allow the use bullets over 300 grains. Both Hornady 350 gr and Speer 400 gr have to be seated deeper than the COL recommended in data. I have not loaded cast bullets for either barrel yet though. My 300 gr Hornady JHP and 300 gr Nosler Partition loads will handle anything I'll be hunting, but part of the fun of the .45-70 is shooting heavy bullets.

sbhg · « **Reply #20 on:** May 03, 2009, 05:21:04 AM »

contender, 14" barrel, 45-70, 420 gr. LBT WLNGC, 44.6 gr. of imr3031 = 1,220 fps. cronographed

"If this is a factory barrel I would expect you are about maxed out for safety purposes. Our chambers will get about 1700 with a 400 and 1600 with a 500 grain. JD PS your barrel can be converted to use these heavy loads--$75 rechambering charge. JD"

If I remember right, they basically throat it some to lower pressure and the accuracy improves.
PS- the velocity doesn't sound like much but, when you pull the trigger you know something just happened. It is controllable, you have to know how to shoot these things. Don't shoot one like a .45 auto or you might be wearin it in yer forehead. LOL.

Blackhawker · « **Reply #21 on:** May 04, 2009, 04:06:52 AM »

I haven't received my barrel yet but I've been looking up loads for it. I've found a little conflict in the Lyman book's data vs. Hornaday and Speer T/C pistol data. Plus, Lyman's T/C load charges are sometimes lower than the loads in the same book for the Springfield rifle. The Hornaday and Speer loads are WAY higher than what Lyman recommends for the T/C pistol but are exact copies of the Lyman data for a Marlin rifle. ...seems odd

Anybody have any ideas on this?

I typically use IMR-3031, IMR-4198, and 2400 for my 45-70 rifle. I'd like to use the same powders if I can when loading for the T/C pistol. Aside from the load listed in the previous post, does anyone have any other loads they would recommend? (300-410 grain bullets, cast or jacketed)

Thanks!

Hopalong7 · « **Reply #22 on:** May 04, 2009, 04:45:47 AM »

My favorite powder (especially with 300gr'ers) is RL-7 which is very similiar in burn rate with the 4198's and IMR3031, so they should work well too. All I've ever heard from TC, for the Contender is use "trap-door" loads and no 500gr bullets and as you have discovered, there are multiple opinions on what constitutes "trap-door". I started out with a very mild load and slowly worked up, but have never gotten near a load that I thought would be harmful to my pistol. In other words, I think my personal limitations are considerably less than the pistol's.
GOOD SHOOTIN', Walt

Bullseye · « **Reply #23 on:** May 04, 2009, 06:57:33 AM »

I shoot IMR-4198 and a Hornady 300 gr. jacketed bullet. Powder weight is one from the Hornady manual in the trapdoor section.

pab1 · « **Reply #24 on:** May 04, 2009, 05:08:02 PM »

H4198 gives high velocities and low pressures at trapdoor levels. The pressures are lower with H4198 than with IMR4198. Hodgdon lists .45-70 handgun data on their site. This target is from my load development a couple of years back. This load is safe in my gun but may not be in others. Follow data recommendations, start low and work up. My barrel likes H4198.

yorketransport · « **Reply #25 on:** May 05, 2009, 05:33:43 PM »

I used 41gr of Re7 and a 405gr CP WLNGC in my 12" Hunter barrel. Groups were about 2" at 100yds with a 2.5x scope. I also played with a 16" unported barrel for a while. The caliber is really more manageable than you'd think. I had a lot of fun with black powder and a 500gr cast bullet in the 16" barrel.

wheelgun · « **Reply #26 on:** May 06, 2009, 10:50:38 AM »

I bought my 45-70 14" no brake, about 8 years ago.I love this barrel but I keep loads within trapdoor levels.I loaded a 500 grain jacket round nose bullet once.Thats too much for me I stay with 300grain bullets.

jsh · « **Reply #27 on:** May 06, 2009, 12:19:50 PM »

Quote from: Hopalong7 on May 01, 2009, 04:06:58 AM

Jeff, Have you had any problem with lead build up in the brake on your SS Hunter barrel? I have the same barrel and love to shoot cast but have only done so in my non-braked barrels having been told that it would be a problem. I've also got an Encore 18" Katahdan barrel w/ brake that I've not shot cast in. Walt

Walt, I have not had any problems thus far, though I do keep an eye on it. Same goes for my 375WW barrel, 14" hunterSS. That is a claiber that has not recieved near the attention it deserves. That has to be the best shooting barrel with factory ammo I have had. Handloads with cast will best them, but still no slouch with the factory.

I hear alot about folks having issues with brakes/comps and cast. It has not reared it's ugly head with me yet. I would suspect the ones that are built right in to the barrel would cause a lot of grief. Rather than the ones TC has that are larger than bore size. I did blow a comp clear off of a 7-30 waters a number of years back, fireforming with cream of wheat. That was a first and last time for that, why waste primer and powder, more so today than then.
Jeff

Hopalong7 · « **Reply #28 on:** May 07, 2009, 01:01:28 AM »

Thanks Jeff, I think I'll give cast a try in mine and see. I totally agree on the 375W...I think it is a sleeping giant for single pistols and rifles. I shoot a Super 14 Contender and 24" Encore, both unbraked, in 375W. I've not got around to casting .375's yet but it's high on my "to do" list.
GOOD SHOOTIN', Walt

Blackhawker · « **Reply #29 on:** May 07, 2009, 03:22:38 AM »

I've had the itch for a T/C 14" in 38-55 (almost a 375 Win). I wonder how it would perform in a pistol. Out of my W&H Target Classic it shoots great. It's a fun round to load and shoot.