A new low for GM

[Questor]

Is it true that GM now has the extinction (oops, I meant distinction) of being the first US company that to have been so wildly inefficient that even the federal government could initiate improvements and efficiencies there? I can't believe it took this long for this US company to finally sober up to the idea that having a multiplicity of cars in the same niche based on different frames and basic componentry was about the stupidest thing any manufacturer since before the dawn of the industrial revolution could do.

Or maybe they just don't see it that way and feel they need to shed unprofitable divisions that aren't salable or valuable in the market for businesses.

GM can always serve as a bad example for something.

[Sourdough]

Look at what they advertise and make.  Went to the Chevy dealer a few months ago looking for a new cat.  They had a left over GTO sitting in the show room, no body wants it.  They had several Corvettes, no body wants them.  They are really advertising the new Camaro, who wants one?  Hot young college guys, problem few can afford one.  No one else wants one mileage is too low, and can't haul friends or family in one.  Oh yes, you can get people in the back seat, but not comfortably.  And getting out is a bear.  Where are the reguler family, or average Joe vehicles?  Few and not real well laid out.

Have a friend in Florida, bought a Pontiac Vibe.  Young college girl, Larry's granddaughter.  Two weeks ago, they had a rain.  Parking lot had water about half way to your knees.  My buddy Larry did not think anything about it and drove his truck through it and went home.  All the guys in his shop, did the same thing with a Dodge Neon, Ford Focus, Toyota Camry, and a BMW.  His Granddaughter who works there also, drove into the water with her Pontiac Vibe and the car quite.  Had it towed to the Pontiac dealer.  Needs a new engine, insurance totaled vehicle.  Seems the air intake is down behind the front bumper, real low.  Dumb place for an air intake to me.  Engine sucked in all that water and locked up.  Is this a built in defect to keep you buying cars?  Definitely not a vehicle for Florida, or anywhere they get a lot of rain.  She replaced it with a Honda.

Over the years I have owned many Fords, Plymoths, and Dodges.  A bunch of Toyotas, and Hondas.  The vehicle with the least problems and one with the most problems have both been Fords.  Actually very little problems with any of my vehicles, till four years ago.  Bought a Chevy S-10 for my son.  last month he gave it back to me.  That little truck gets the same mileage as my F-350.  I've had the transfer case rebuilt twice, and still not right.  Chevy dealer won't touch it says there is no way to stop the problem.  It's inherent with all S-10s, cannot be fixed.  problems shifting out of four wheel drive, locks into 4 wheel and won't disengage.  When it finally does disengage, it is a violent banging, that shakes the whole truck.  Makes me think I am going to bust a universal.  Son and I have both came to the same concussion, we will never own another GM vehicle.  Son commandeered my Mitsubishi Eclipse, and won't let me have it back.  Paid me the differance between the Chevy S-10 and the Eclipse.   I'm thinking of trading the Chevy for a Chrysler Crossfire Convertible, just what every 60 yr Graybearded old man needs.

[JPShelton]

Look at what they advertise and make.  Went to the Chevy dealer a few months ago looking for a new cat.  They had a left over GTO sitting in the show room, no body wants it.

I want one.  I just didn't want one bad enough to pay the asking price

They are really advertising the new Camaro, who wants one?  Hot young college guys, problem few can afford one.  No one else wants one mileage is too low, and can't haul friends or family in one.  Oh yes, you can get people in the back seat, but not comfortably.  And getting out is a bear.

I really want one of these and I do want one bad enough to pay MSRP.  I don't want one bad enough to pay the thousands above MSRP that dealers are tacking on as they did with the Dodge Challenger R/T.  I am considering the Challenger, too.  I wish I could afford to buy them both.  I am not a "Hot young college guy" but that doesn't stop me from thinking the new Camero is a nice ride. In fact, it might make for a nice "commuter car" for me.  I have a 40 mile commute one way to the field office that I work at in my employment with the Cherokee Nation.  I sometimes travel to other field offices, and sometimes more than one in a day, travelling from one end of the Cherokee Nation to the other.  A lot of this travel is on winding, two-lane roads.  For this, a car that gets 27 mpg AND has 300 horsepower on tap, along with great brakes and fully independent suspension, which the new Camero has, makes a ton of sense to me.  It is exactly the kind of car I wished GM would make and if they'd have done it a couple of years ago, I might have one parked next to my Jeep instead of the PT Cruiser that is parked next to it, though I like the PT Cruiser, too, and don't regret buying it.  The new Camero is a stylish, high performance product that also gets decent mpg - just what every 44 yr Graybearded old man needs.

Based on favorable experience with the PT Cruiser, I was leaning toward the Challenger.  I also like the looks a bit better.  But there is no doubt in my mind that the Camero is a better, more balanced performance car.  It is essentially a Cadillac CTS under the skin, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, as the CTS is fine performer in its own right.

-JP

[ruppster]

...bought a Pontiac Vibe...

It is a rebadged Toyota Matrix. My sister has one.