Smart Car: You're joking, right?

[Questor]

http://www.greencar.com/articles/smart-car-offers-drivers-new-high-mpg-option-top-crash-rating.php

I've been wondering what those smart cars get for gas mileage. Only about 33mpg city and 40 highway. And it requires premium fuel. Doesn't seem like a compelling argument to buy a little junk box with no passenger, cargo, or driver room.

[no guns here]

Buy the TDI model and you'll get closer to 55-60...


NGH

[hillbill]

the ridiculosthing is that ive got a 98 nissan sentra that routinely gets 36 mpg around on short trips and ive got as high as 42 on the hwy.its a 4 dr and practically a luxury sedan compared to those crapboxes.

[no guns here]

Yup... I had a 94 Civic 4-door that would get 38 on the highway with a fresh oil change.  Usually ran about 35-36.  Decent room for me then... I was 35 pounds lighter...


NGH

[nomosendero]

Buy the TDI model and you'll get closer to 55-60...


NGH

No, you buy it.

[SHOOTALL]

My 2008 ram 4 door 2500 diesel gets 22-24 mph on the road carries 5 adults and a load of other junk . When you look at the trips the green cars have to make to do the same it is not cost effective .

OH YEA , my truck is white not green . think it would get better millage if it were green ?

[Syncerus]

In 1980 a Diesel VW Rabbit got over 50 mpg. Hybrid technology is a JOKE. The high-mileage technology that's here, now and real is diesel/turbo-diesel technology.

That said, the government has no business deciding how much car I should drive. If I want to pay the fuel bill for a 500 hp truck, that's my prerogative. The social engineers/do-gooders need to mind their own business.

As others have said, the "Smart Car" is for the gullible.

[nomosendero]

In 1980 a Diesel VW Rabbit got over 50 mpg. Hybrid technology is a JOKE. The high-mileage technology that's here, now and real is diesel/turbo-diesel technology.

That said, the government has no business deciding how much car I should drive. If I want to pay the fuel bill for a 500 hp truck, that's my prerogative. The social engineers/do-gooders need to mind their own business.

As others have said, the "Smart Car" is for the gullible.

Ditto!! I understand VW will be selling a Diesel here again & again in the 50mpg area, I think a little bigger car than the old Rabbit, but not sure.

[scootrd]

My f-250 V10 only gets 9 mpg Towing 6k lbs .
it only gets about 15 - 18 tops  on the highway.
It's my choice  - I love my Truck ..I'm not trading.

[no guns here]

Well, you got the VW Passat in the TDI version that gets 45-50.  I see them on the autobahn every day running well over 100mph.  They'll accelerate with my V6 Golf too.  I'd say that are just about the size of an Accord.

The old Rabbit diesel from the early 80's was timed with a sundial for acceleration.  New ones are MUCH better.

"Green cars" and small cars weren't made to do the same job as your 2500...  comparing the two is silly.

Now, if you say wanted to compare say a truck to a truck that might work.

You can laugh and joke about Smart Cars, small turbo-diesels and all that but it still doesn't change the idea most Americans drive more car than they need to on a daily basis.  The Smart Car wasn't designed to haul five people or a load of gear.  It wasn't designed to tow, haul or go off-road.  That doesn't mean it isn't VERY good at what is was designed to do.  It was designed to be affordable, VERY easy to park in a European city (which strangely enough don't have large parking areas measured in acres like ours), to carry two people (or four in the Smart four door) and to function as a decent run around town and commuter car.
And to carry a small amount of groceries or bags.

Yep, I'm one of them.  My wife drives a Suburban here in Germany.  We could easily make do with a VW van that is a TDI and gets nearly 30 mpg.  My wife refuses.  She buys into the "I gotta drive a truck thing".

When we were on leave in OK a couple of weeks ago I paid a lot of attention to driving habits of the folks there.  Even the local high school parking lot was full of 3/4 ton pickups.  Every other car was a dually with ONE person in it and no load or trailer.  Just momma goin' to pick up the baby at the sitters...  We all have the "gotta have a truck" mentality.  I guess that's okay if you can afford it.  Problem is too many of those folks can't anymore.  If you don't haul, pull, or use a truck for work, you could probably save yourself a WHOLE lot of money by getting a small car for everyday use and an older paid off truck for the few times you NEED it.


I know when I retire, I'll keep the Suburban's.  Momma has hers that will be paid off then.  I have an old jacked up '89 that takes me huntin' and fishin'.  I'll drive a small car that gets 50mpg on a daily basis though.  Well, I might cut that back to mid-30's if I can find an older one that is in good shape that I can pay cash for.


NGH

[Syncerus]

You can laugh and joke about Smart Cars, small turbo-diesels and all that but it still doesn't change the idea most Americans drive more car than they need to on a daily basis.

The government has no business telling me what I "need".

I reject the government planned economy and the government planned life completely. Both are documented, demonstrable failures, and lead only to human misery.

[GatCat]

I think the "Smart Car", used as it was designed for in Europe, makes sense, where streets are very narrow, parking is very limited, etc. etc. Without the added weight of meeting U.S. safety standards, and without the U.S. smog regs, they get much better milage then the U.S. versions. They originally were not very costly, and I view them as a step up from the small scooters. But, as sold here in the U.S., they are more of a status symble, a novelty, "look at me".
Mark

[Sourdough]

My 1982 Honda Civic got 52mpg on the highway at 70mph, 50hpg at 55mph.  My current daily driver a Suzuki Samurai gets 32mpg average driving on regaler gas.  I'm happy with it, don't need a Smart Car.

If I was looking for good mileage I would go with a VW diesel.  I'm a test driver, off and on for VW.  They have some nice diesels, and some should start showing up here in the states soon.

[PartsMan]

You have to remember to compare apples to apples.
An 82 or 94 model had very little emissions standards compared to today.
Almost any model you compare to it's current replacement gets better millage.

Our wonderful law makers keep telling our auto makers how to make autos.

One of these great ideas they test a vehicles emissions in parts per million per HORSEPOWER.
Rather than make an engine that gets better emissions make the old motor have more power at the same emissions.

[Questor]

Sourdough:

I'd like to see the VW diesels here too. My understanding is that they perform as well as gas engines but with much better mileage.

I think our emissions laws are preventing them from becoming widespread in the US.

[teamnelson]

I'm laughing as I read this ... I live on an island in the Pacific where the longest drive is maybe 40 miles one way - from the tip of one end to the other. Most folks live, work, shop and play within a 5 mile radius here. And most folks gotta have a $40K 4x4 truck/SUV. Gas prices are higher than they are on the mainland, parts are hard to come by, 95% of the roads are 35 mph or less. Obesity is a cultural factor, so there are a disproportionately higher number of families that are literally too big (per person) to fit in a Passat or Accord. Unemployment is very high and like 30% of the island goes to the foodbank for groceries ... but we still gotta have our truck to take the family to IHOP.

I'm all for freedom of choice, as long as my taxes don't have to supplement your choice.

[MGMorden]

As noted, more lax emission standards in previous times made it a bit easier to get higher MPG cars.  A friend of mine I went to college with had a 1988 Nissan Sentra that got close to 40MPG.  New models see about 25% reduction in that though.  Even this little car gets better MPG in locations where it doesn't have as strict of emissions standards to deal with.

Personally though, I kinda like the little things.  I've seen several on the road, and I certainly think that have a stylishness about them .  But, that's personal preference.  I have a truck that I drive to go hunting (a pretty rough clunker that I bought from my brother for next to nothing when he replaced it).  Other than that - I'm a single computer programmer.  I drive almost exclusively on paved highways, rarely with more than 2 people in the car (and realistically 95% of my driving is single passenger), and generally haul very little (a few bags of groceries).  My actual car (a Hyundai Tiburon) is already pretty small and cramped.  If the cost was right I certainly wouldn't mind looking into one of these .

[no guns here]

Come on... are you SURE you don't need a 3/4 ton turbo-diesal mega-cab just in case???  You could drive it every day and feel bigger, badder and more manly.  I'm sure squeezing it in traffic and small parking lots just helps with your aim for hunting season too.  And climbing in and out helps with your conditioning for using your climber in November.  In fact, what you probably need is a nice luxury SUV AND and big pickup.  Never know when it might snow and then you'd die if you didn't have 4x4 in every vehicle.  There is NO possible way that a real man can drive a small, efficient car.  If it isn't large and doesn't belch smoke it's a sissy car and makes your manhood fall off after more than a month of driving...

All in jest.  I like big, strong trucks as much as the next guy.  I just realize that I don't need to drive one on a daily basis just to get to work and the grocery store.  Heck most folks I know at home live less than 6 blocks from all the stores in their town but they drive back and forth.  Then they eat ice cream and watch CIS while they complain about being fat.  Then they complain about how much gas costs and how much their new truck tires cost.  Wouldn't it be smarter to walk more, drive less?  Wouldn't it be smarter to drive a small, efficient car for the 90% of trips where you don't need the big truck?

I'm on a rant... ignore me...
NGH

[ironglow]

  I just completed a trip to S. Carolina and back. That is 905 miles each way plus local driving while I was there (3 days). My 2007 Toyota Yaris can carry 5, or as in our case 2 and lots of luggage etc. Keeping close account of each 'leg" or refill point, mileage dropped to 39+ mpg on only one leg, rest were 40+ with two at 41+.  Better than the Smart? car, with more room and several thousands of $$$ less.
    We were both rode in comfort all the way...

[jhm]

I am beginning to get SCARED to take my WILLIAMLAYTON expedition trip in my Motorhome!!  It sounds like their are alot of people out there that want to tell others what and how and when they can drive.  I am 62 and will be 63 in Oct. I have been driving since I was 16 actually 15 I stole my buddys dads car when we were 15 but brought it back after about a 5 min. adventure however I have never bought a Vehicle just for GAS MILLAGE, go out to your car and raise the hood and look and every car out there will have a sticker saying something to the effect of meeting CALIFORNIA emmision standards, people we have ourselves to blame for this we let one state that cant BALANCE nothing to dictate to all the auto manufacturers how they should build a car if CALIFORNIA wants that crap on their cars let it be a DEALER option, the tree huggers are from there and they dont want any drilling of OIL anywhere or refineries repaired or new ones built anywhere, they want to dictate everything but go there and you will see all the MUSCLE cars from the 60s and 70s running around, out there you are WHAT YOU DRIVE and they pray to their vehicles on a daily basis, and atempt to tell the rest of the country what they should do.   Jim

[MGMorden]

  I just completed a trip to S. Carolina and back. That is 905 miles each way plus local driving while I was there (3 days). My 2007 Toyota Yaris can carry 5, or as in our case 2 and lots of luggage etc. Keeping close account of each 'leg" or refill point, mileage dropped to 39+ mpg on only one leg, rest were 40+ with two at 41+.  Better than the Smart? car, with more room and several thousands of $$$ less.
    We were both rode in comfort all the way...

Base starting price of a Toyota Yaris: $12,205
Base starting price of a Smart forTwo Pure Coupe: $11,990

Stated MPG of Toyota Yaris: 29 City/36 Hwy
Stated MPG of Smart forTwo: 33 City/41 Hwy

Yes, your car got more than the stated MPG, but a lot do (my Tiburon was stated to be 29 MPG Hwy and I usually get 34-35 out of it), so it's quite likely that the Smart car will get a little better than it's published numbers as well.

So you have a slight, but still positive, price advantage with the Smart, and a slight, but still positive, MPG advantage too.  And personally, I think the Smart looks better .  I'm quirky that way though.  I also have a certain set of needs.  Namely - I normally travel alone.  I went from Charleston, SC to Miami, FL a few months back.  Can't remember the mileage, but it was a roughly 12 hour drive, and I drove that alone with 1 suitcase.  I'm going to Atlanta, GA in August - again, alone with 1 suitcase.  I drive to work every morning, alone, and usually with absolutely no cargo (as I said I might pickup a bag of groceries on the way back). 

Comfort is also relative.  Some people are more comfortable in a small car.  I know that sounds odd, but it's usually just a case of whatever you're used to.  I drive a Tiburon - it's pretty small inside, but I'm used to it.  When I drive in a company car, all we have are Crown Victorias.  They're HUGE, with a lot more power, but I hate the darned things.  It feels like I'm rattling around in that big car, and it's a bear to park compared to my personal vehicle.

Now, I'm certainly not one to say what anyone SHOULD be driving.  For certain people and certain situations different types of cars will be best suited to them.  I'm just saying that there IS a legit market for the little Smart cars out there - everyone who buys one isn't overlooking something .

[teamnelson]

USGS survey indicated the world had 5,680 Billion Barrels of Oil Equivalent (BBOE) in 1995. Our 2007 rate of global consumption was 85 million a day, which gives us 169 years left assuming no change. Unfortunately, it appears that 1,200 BBOE are inaccessible for use, which knocks us down to 130 years (and of the remaining it is believed that perhaps as much as 20% is speculative). Consumption is increasing at nearly 2% a year and climbing, while new discoveries are slowing to less than 10 BBOE a year (or an additional 117 days worth at 2007 consumption levels). So lets be generous and flatten out speculation, new discoveries and increased consumption - 130 years left of oil. It'll be a problem my great grandchildren will be scrambling to face, although I cannot imagine what the world will be like when we're all scrambling to control the last few drops.

If most of the miles on your truck are driving yourself to work, sell it and get a Harley Sportster. Cheaper than a 2 person Smart Car, American made, twice the mpg of your truck, and you won't feel gay driving it.

[no guns here]

But you will get wet, cold and hot.  Not that bikes aren't cool and all that but... birds happen and so do grasshoppers.  Why would you feel gay driving any car?  It's a car not a dude.  I like to drive a truck.  It's nice to sit up high and to be able to see.  I sure like parking my Golf though.  Gas stops are a LOT cheaper.
Can't carry as much though.  Sometimes I WISH I had a Smart car.  Parking is at a premium on my base.  Smart cars can squeeze in perpendicular to two other small cars in regular parallel spots.  Wouldn't make me feel gay at all.  I might feel happy when I could park close to the office again though.  Each to their own.  I just don't see making fun of something that you don't understand.  It might make sense to a whole bunch of folks...

NGH

[scootrd]

I would enjoy seeing some crash test/ survivability  statistics on these little road hazards( I mean errr...cars )if anyone has any to post. 
My friends wife backed up over 2 miatas a few years back (two different miatas twice in a single year) because she just couldn't see them due to low profile.  I bet her insurance company loved her.

[skarke]

My 150 cc scooter gets 105 MPG, and it came with a cool chinese helmet, and was 1300 bucks, and costs 95 bucks per year FULL coverage.  For trips to the gym, delivering that forgotten homework to school, etc, it's awesome.

That said, I also have a Suburban (18 mpg highway) an F150 with the big 6 (22 MPG Highway), and a chevy Cobalt (36 mpg highway).

The vehicles are used Cobalt, scooter, truck, Suburban, in that order.  There's nothing wrong with using a mini vehicle, but if I want an Excursion, there's nothing wrong with that either.

I'll always have a truck.  In fact, I think that it is a class B misdemeanor in Texas NOT to have one

[MGMorden]

I would enjoy seeing some crash test/ survivability  statistics on these little road hazards( I mean errr...cars )if anyone has any to post. 

Didn't click on the link did you?   It was in the first paragraph:

The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) recently crash tested the 2008 smart fortwo and found it performed so well it earned the Institute's best ratings for front and side crash protection. Plus, its rear crash worthiness was rated as "acceptable," the Institute's second-highest rating.

[scootrd]

Missed the link ..Thanks for pointing it out.. My wife likes these little cars ..me I am very very uncomfortable in small cars ..I also find the road noise annoying in some small models.

[-Shaggy-]

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Smart car? No thank you very much.

[ironglow]

 MGMorden;
     You must have gotten your figures from Edmunds and I cannot imagine where they got theirs from, because they are not at all realistic.They could be using city driving as the crtiteria I suppose, but even then..they would be way off.
  I am reading off the sheet that was glued to the side window of my car when I bought it it says:
  
        3-door liftback, 1.5L , air conditioning, 5 speed manual (OD) transmission and a list of that include about 50 extra items such as tilt steering wheel, twin trip meters, rear wiper, intermittent wipers, 4@ various glove/storage boxes in instrument panel plus others..base price for this was $11,150   To this I added a "convenience pkg" AM/FM/CD w/playback and audio jack, 15" wheels & covers with (w/Bridgestone Potenzas) ...cost  $630
  
Then All-weather pkg..larger washer tank w/warning, heavy duty heater, starter & rear heater ducts + daytime running lights. ..cost..$110
  
Lastly I had a cruise-control installed..total at bottom of the list $12,660

  Fuel economy..from the required EPA sheet City=34  highway=40..further down shows likely mileage range,  depending upon conditions an driving habits..City=28-40  highway=34-46...
      ..So you can see that with my frugal driving style, 40-41 on the highway is no challenge..

    Before I bought the Yaris, my son was mildly interested in the Smart Car..so we did a little comparing (for both of us):
  While yes, the Smart started in the 11K range, that model (called the "Pure").. is purely and hopelessly stripped. Most Smarts we found  at the dealers, ran about $17,000 to $18,000..when equipped about like the Yaris I later bought.
  They are hard to compare though, because among other things the Yaris has a rear seat (5 total, 4 comfortably) and a decent luggage compartment, both of which the Smart ..smarts.. for lack of !
  As I recall, the EPA sticker called for something like ..City=36  Highway=42, putting it about 2 mpg ahead of the Yaris..but considering the cramped space, no luggage and my snow conditions..PLUS the comparative price difference similarly equipped...my choice was clear.  ...Especially considering the Yaris runs on regular grade gas while the Smart requires premium (30-40 cts per gal more).
 
   I won't condemn anyone else's choice because we all have differing criteria. At the time I bought the Yaris, I was seriously looking at the Kia Rio, Honda Fit and the Hyundai Accent and probably would have been just as pleased with one of them.

  Here is today's comparison..check them out. Note: while the Smart starts at less than the Yaris..one must pay for air=$600, power steerng=$495, plain radio=$350 & daytime running lights=$50....totaling $1495, ...just to get SOME of the equipment to that is standard on the Yaris.

   http://www.edmunds.com/smart/fortwo/2009/index.htm
http://www.edmunds.com/toyota/yaris/2009/index.html#resort=make_desc&search=open.eq..amp.p.eq.cvehicledata%23%23-1%23%23-1%7E%7Ef12%7C%7C546f796f7461%7E%7Enf66%7C%7C48617463686261636b
   

  

[Questor]

My car weighs 4 times as much as a smartcar. In any collision, I win.