Author Topic: Obama wants crack cocaine sentences reduced  (Read 1773 times)

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Offline DalesCarpentry

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Re: Obama wants crack cocaine sentences reduced
« Reply #30 on: April 29, 2009, 06:07:41 PM »
I have been trying very hard to stay out of this thread. Coke powder and Crack are pretty much the same thing. The difference is when you cook it down with baking soda you end up with a product that is 100% pure coke. The cooking process takes all the crap the other drug dealers add. The drug dealers add baby laxative and other things to add to the weight of their product. The more weight of their product the more they make. They call it the cut. They may get their coke at 70% to 95% pure. They make their money by stepping on it. That means they take their batch and add things that take up weight but won't kill the person using it. Like I said most times it is baby laxitive. Dale
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Offline Matt

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Re: Obama wants crack cocaine sentences reduced
« Reply #31 on: April 29, 2009, 07:16:38 PM »
You want to make drugs legal. I have no problem with it but lets keep things fair. If they break into my home, truck, shed, or threaten my safty or that of my loved ones I should be able to shoot them legaly After all they are now messing with my rights. Lets do away with the insanity defense; aww the drugs made them do it doest cut it. How many of you have dealt with the hard core drug abusers, the ones that pimp their children, sell their children and wil literally kill for their next fix? I did for 8 years. If you want to turn these types back onto our streets fine but allow us the freedom to act in our best interest as well. But they should not be allowed welfare so I have to support their habit or pay for the medical care their abuse will require. End of rant

Well in Alabama we have the Castle Doctrine so if I feel my life or property is in danger I can shoot to kill.

But I agree with what you are saying... but also if they were legal then the price should be low enough that the dumb ones can go ahead and OD on their drug of chioce so they are not reproducing...

Matt
Any fool can know. The point is to understand.”
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Offline zombiewolf

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Re: Obama wants crack cocaine sentences reduced
« Reply #32 on: April 29, 2009, 08:18:40 PM »
... but also if they were legal then the price should be low enough that the dumb ones can go ahead and OD on their drug of chioce so they are not reproducing...

Matt

Youda' thunk Darwins law woulda taken care of all that back when you could buy Heroin at the General store...

Offline Cement Man

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Re: Obama wants crack cocaine sentences reduced
« Reply #33 on: April 30, 2009, 03:24:09 AM »
I find this an interesting discussion about justice.  I found this counter-point to the premise that crack penalties are prejudicial.......


High Incarceration Rate Of Blacks Is Function Of Crime, Not Racism
By HEATHER MAC DONALD | Posted Monday, April 28, 2008 4:20 PM PT

The race industry and its elite enablers take it as self-evident that high black incarceration rates result from discrimination.

At a presidential primary debate this Martin Luther King Day, for instance, Sen. Barack Obama charged that blacks and whites "are arrested at very different rates, are convicted at very different rates, (and) receive very different sentences . . . for the same crime."

Not to be outdone, Sen. Hillary Clinton promptly denounced the "disgrace of a criminal-justice system that incarcerates so many more African-Americans proportionately than whites."

If a listener didn't know anything about crime, such charges of disparate treatment might seem plausible.

After all, in 2006, blacks were 37.5% of all state and federal prisoners, though they're under 13% of the national population. About one in 33 black men was in prison in 2006, compared with one in 205 white men and one in 79 Hispanic men. Eleven percent of all black males between the ages of 20 and 34 are in prison or jail.

The dramatic rise in the correctional population over the past three decades — to 2.3 million people at the end of 2007 — has only amplified the racial accusations against the criminal-justice system.

The favorite culprits for high black prison rates include a biased legal system, draconian drug enforcement and even prison itself. None of these explanations stands up to scrutiny.

The black incarceration rate is overwhelmingly a function of black crime. Insisting otherwise only worsens black alienation and further defers a real solution to the black crime problem.

Racial activists usually remain silent about that problem. But in 2005, the black homicide rate was more than seven times higher than that of whites and Hispanics combined, according to the federal Bureau of Justice Statistics.

From 1976 to 2005, blacks committed more than 52% of all murders in America. In 2006, the black arrest rate for most crimes was two to nearly three times blacks' representation in the population. Blacks constituted 39.3% of all violent-crime arrests, including 56.3% of all robbery and 34.5% of all aggravated-assault arrests, and 29.4% of all property-crime arrests.

The advocates acknowledge such crime data only indirectly: by charging bias on the part of the system's decision makers. As Obama suggested in the Martin Luther King debate, police, prosecutors and judges treat blacks and whites differently "for the same crime."

But in fact, cops don't over-arrest blacks and ignore white criminals. The race of criminals reported by crime victims matches arrest data. No one has ever come up with a plausible argument as to why crime victims would be biased in their reports.

Racial activists also allege that prosecutors overcharge and judges oversentence blacks. Backing up this bias claim has been the holy grail of criminology for decades — and the prize remains as elusive as ever.

In 1997, criminologists Robert Sampson and Janet Lauritsen concluded that "large racial differences in criminal offending," not racism, explained why more blacks were in prison proportionately than whites and for longer terms.

A 1994 Justice Department survey of felony cases from the country's 75 largest urban areas discovered that blacks actually had a lower chance of prosecution after a felony than whites did and that they were less likely to be found guilty at trial. After conviction, blacks were more likely to receive prison sentences, however — an outcome that reflected the gravity of their offenses as well as their criminal records.

Unfair drug policies are an equally popular explanation for black incarceration rates. Legions of pundits, activists and academics charge that the war on drugs is a war on minorities.

They point to federal crack penalties, the source of the greatest amount of misinformation in the race and incarceration debate. Under a 1986 law, five grams of crack triggers a mandatory minimum five-year sentence in federal court; powder-cocaine traffickers get the same five-year minimum for 500 grams.

The media love to target the federal crack penalties because crack defendants are likely to be black. In 2006, 81% of federal crack defendants were black while only 27% of federal powder-cocaine defendants were.

Since federal crack rules are more severe than those for powder, and crack offenders are disproportionately black, those rules must explain why so many blacks are in prison, the conventional wisdom holds.

But consider that in 2006, only 5,619 crack sellers were tried federally, 4,495 of them black. It's going to take a lot more than 5,000 or so crack defendants a year to account for the 562,000 black prisoners in state and federal facilities at the end of 2006 — or the 858,000 black prisoners in custody overall, if one includes the population of county and city jails.

Moreover, the press almost never mentions the federal methamphetamine-trafficking penalties, which are identical to those for crack. In 2006, the 5,391 sentenced federal meth defendants were 54% white, 39% Hispanic and 2% black. No one calls the federal meth laws anti-Hispanic or anti-white.

The press has also served up a massive dose of crack revisionism aimed at proving the racist origins of the war on crack. Crack was never a big deal, the revisionist story line goes. The belief that crack was an inner-city scourge was a racist illusion.

The assertion that concern about crack was motivated by racism ignores a key fact: Black leaders were the first to sound the alarm about the drug, as Harvard law professor Randall Kennedy documents in "Race, Crime, and the Law." These politicians were reacting to a devastating outbreak of inner-city violence and addiction unleashed by the new form of cocaine.

The crack market differed radically from the discreet phone transactions and private deliveries that characterized powder-cocaine distribution: Volatile young dealers sold crack on street corners, using guns to establish their turf. The national spike in violence in the mid-1980s was largely due to the crack trade, and its victims were overwhelmingly black inner-city residents.

It takes shameless sleight of hand to turn an effort to protect blacks from harm into a conspiracy against them. If Congress had ignored black legislators' calls to increase cocaine-trafficking penalties, the outcry among the groups now crying racism would have been deafening.

To be sure, a legislative bidding war drove federal crack penalties ultimately to an arbitrary and excessive point; the current movement to reduce those penalties is appropriate. But it was not racism that led to the crack sentencing scheme.

Critics follow up their charges about crack with several false claims about drugs and imprisonment.

The first is that drug enforcement has been the most important cause of the overall rising incarceration rate since the 1980s. Not true.

Violent crime has always been the leading driver of prison growth, especially since the 1990s. In state prisons, where 88% of the nation's inmates are housed, violent and property offenders make up over 3 1/2 times the number of state drug offenders.

Next, critics blame drug enforcement for rising racial disparities in prison. Again, the facts say otherwise. In 2006, blacks were 37.5% of the 1,274,600 state prisoners. If you remove drug prisoners from that population, the percentage of black prisoners drops to 37%.

Finally, race and anti-incarceration activists argue that we are sending harmless low-level offenders to prison, disrupting communities. To the contrary: In the overwhelming majority of cases, prison remains a lifetime achievement award for persistence in criminal offending.

The JFA Institute, an anti-incarceration advocacy group, estimated in 2007 that in only 3% of violent victimizations and property crimes does the offender end up in prison. And taking criminals out of poor inner-city communities has allowed the many law-abiding residents there to get on with their lives, freed from constant fear.

When prominent figures such as Barack Obama make sweeping claims about racial unfairness in the criminal-justice system, they play with fire. The evidence is clear: Black prison rates result from crime, not racism. The dramatic drop in crime in the 1990s, to which stricter sentencing policies unquestionably contributed, has freed thousands of law-abiding inner-city residents from the bondage of fear.

The continuing search for the chimera of criminal-justice bigotry is a useless distraction that diverts energy and attention from the crucial imperative of helping more inner-city boys stay in school — and out of trouble.

Mac Donald is a Manhattan Institute senior fellow and a contributing editor to its magazine, City Journal. This piece is adapted from the spring 2008 issue.

 


 
CIVES ARMA FERANT - Let the citizens bear arms.
POLITICIANS SHOULD BE LIMITED TO TWO TERMS - ONE IN OFFICE AND ONE IN PRISON.... Illinois already does this.

Offline gypsyman

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Re: Obama wants crack cocaine sentences reduced
« Reply #34 on: April 30, 2009, 04:26:04 AM »
Maybe Obama wants to be known as the Nelson Mandela of America. He's going to free his people from apartheid here in our country. After all, look how well it's worked out in South Africa. Since the evil whitey no longer controls that country, unemployment is up to over 40%, infrastucture is falling apart. 40,000 rapes a year, drug abuse up over double. Yep, look what we have to look forward to in the next 3+ years.
Hell, lets just let them all out of jail. Maybe it's time for rock and roll. gypsyman
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Offline mirage1988

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Re: Obama wants crack cocaine sentences reduced
« Reply #35 on: April 30, 2009, 07:17:59 AM »


But consider that in 2006, only 5,619 crack sellers were tried federally, 4,495 of them black. It's going to take a lot more than 5,000 or so crack defendants a year to account for the 562,000 black prisoners in state and federal facilities at the end of 2006 — or the 858,000 black prisoners in custody overall, if one includes the population of county and city jails.



 


 

Good article cementman,

another example of the media twisting statistics. There is no mention of how many were tried the state and local level, only federal. I don't think dealing crack automatically is a federal crime. When an author throws out stats like that it discredits the whole article. Now I am in no way condoning crack dealing, I just don't always believe everything I read.

Offline rex6666

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Re: Obama wants crack cocaine sentences reduced
« Reply #36 on: April 30, 2009, 07:40:04 AM »
From what I understand, plain powdered cocane is only psycologically addictive.  Crack cocane is cocane laced with powdered heroin crystals, therefore highly addictive which is why the sentances are higher.

Good lord! Where did you hear that garbage? Crack is made by mixing nothing more than small amounts of baking soda and water with cocaine and then gently heating the mixture. That's it. No heroin involved.

BTW, great idea there gypsyman... why don't you look up the number of people busted nationwide for possession of the drugs you listed, then multiply that number by the amount of money it costs to keep and feed a convict for 20 years. Does that sound cost effective?

Volume dealers already face sentences of that magnitude, by your "problem solved" logic there shouldn't be any left by now.

well buy BEERS logic of being cost efective guess we should just slap their hand and say no-no
seems to know his drugs tho. ;D
Rex
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Offline rex6666

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Re: Obama wants crack cocaine sentences reduced
« Reply #37 on: April 30, 2009, 07:52:48 AM »
i do feel sorry for mr. Cedric Parker whining about his poor sister have to serve twice the time in prison because she was trading crack for designer clothes.

Wonder if Mr. Cedric Parker ever considered the fact that if she
had not been dealing drugs in the first place, she MIGHT not
have been in prison to start with. "whitie made her do it"

Wonder how other countries "say muslim countries punish drug users"
or any other country, i think they get off pretty easy here.
Rex
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Offline wareagleguy

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Re: Obama wants crack cocaine sentences reduced
« Reply #38 on: April 30, 2009, 07:57:03 AM »
Matt,
Right on, brother!

I just don't understand the thinking.  What I hear is "we what the goverment out of our lives but we need to deal with anyone not living or acting like us".  I get so sick of it.  Quit trying make government the moral police!!  Folks, just worry about yourselfs and start supporting a government that is a REPUBLIC.  The only thing the government needs to do is make sure our rights are secure.
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Offline rex6666

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Re: Obama wants crack cocaine sentences reduced
« Reply #39 on: April 30, 2009, 08:06:04 AM »
Lets not only make drugs legal but FREE, and make sure they are 100% pure
and anyone over 21 that wants them get enough to OD on. they can decide how
much they want to consume.
that will take care of keeping them in prison or treatment.
Rex
GOD GUNS and GUTS MADE AMERICA GREAT

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Offline wareagleguy

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Re: Obama wants crack cocaine sentences reduced
« Reply #40 on: April 30, 2009, 08:59:55 AM »
I never said make drugs legal.  It would be better served to try to get people not to take it.  I know if I tried I could find drugs and take it.  I don't do that so why do I not do that?  I know better, that is why.  There will always be drug users.

I want a government that will stop spending on these "wars" that do nothing but waste money.  I just looked at the arrests done in the last week and 9 out of 21 arrests was drug related.  I would rather have the police use it's resources on crime.
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Offline Default

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Re: Obama wants crack cocaine sentences reduced
« Reply #41 on: April 30, 2009, 10:39:20 AM »
 HMMMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ,

 Lets see we should be nicer because the people in the joint for crack (anything) are black like the JUDGE ????????????

 Well Hell , Jeffrey Dalhmer and Ted Bundy look like me but you know what , We Sure Dont Think The Same Now Do WE !!!!!!

 You LoooooK like Meh , You Getta Pass !  *end sarcasm*

  *pauses due to mass frustration*

 OOOOOOOOOO   K      ....    So Yeah Crack is to urban areas , What meth is to rural areas..

 Brutally destructive to all that use it ( including the users family) ... I grew up in Kalifornia .... I have seen first hand the Crack heads , The ppl walking around with a painted mouth and a bag for of gold spray paint..
 I have seen ample amounts of meth heads and you know what is universal about all those people ... Worthless, Untrustable, Liars and Out right thieves ...

 I have no use for them and those that supply them should be thanking whateever they pray to that it isnt a death sentence for peddeling that sh*t to their fellow man .. Which to me should be the standard sentence..

 But i foresee this type of BS going on and on and on till it cant be takin anymore..

  You know cause its not like they dont have more important things to concern themselves with OR Anything..

 But I think this fool already sees that this four years is going to be his only four and that he needs to do as much damage as possible before the joy ride on our backs is over ..
 
       *sigh*
 
   Well now that I'm all bent out of shape , I'll wish you all well ..And appologize for the .. Well what ever you call the above stated


        Default

     PS Rex the "Let them smoke it. shoot it or snort it till they die " has crossed my mind more then once
"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn’t pass it on to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children what it was once like in the United States when men were free." ~Ronald Reagan

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Offline billy_56081

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Re: Obama wants crack cocaine sentences reduced
« Reply #42 on: April 30, 2009, 04:34:52 PM »
Well if BHO would do alittle research on why crack cocaine garnered stiffer sentances than powder, he needs to look back to when crack came out. The ghetto folk were crying to have crack dealers locked up longer as these folk were destroying "their" neighborhoods.

And for the simpltons who call for legalizing all drugs, as it would weed out the addicts and undesirables by overdose and accident. I hope you and yours are the victims of their addiction fueled crimes they do on their way to dying. Heck with this simplton train of thought, maybe we should legalize drunk driving. Givin enough time the drunks will crash and kill themselves, its the others they will kill along the way that the laws are there to protect. 
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Offline Questor

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Re: Obama wants crack cocaine sentences reduced
« Reply #43 on: April 30, 2009, 04:40:35 PM »
Legalizing the drugs shouldn't even be at issue. That would not address the root of the problem: behavior while under the influence of the drug. In a few European countries the DUI laws are so severe that nobody drives drunk. The penalties are extremely harsh. I believe Sweden is one, and they are legendary alcoholics. They get bombed out of their minds at home, but don't dare to drive.
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