Author Topic: You call this a bankruptcy! This is an outrage! (Read 2169 times)

Dee · « **Reply #30 on:** May 04, 2009, 01:07:19 AM »

Hell Oldshooter, IT'S ALREADY A FIASCO! These union guys want our money in the form of tax dollars, and actually believe they deserve it. They want us to think that if it weren't for them we'd be walkin. It has been proven that they are not the only one whom can build an over-priced car with over priced workers. They have taken control of the business of auto making in the north, and have driven it into the ground, just like the government has done the tax payer.
If these OTHER UNION BOYS are so supportive of their UAW brothers, give them part of YOUR RETIREMENT AND BENEFITS.
I owe them NOTHING! I am a working man that neither expects, or wants a government BAILOUT, nor do I want to GIVE ONE.

Torpedoman, you are MINORITY in this country. Over 70% of the people agree with ME. READ THE PAPERS! PLEASE READ IT ALL.

nomosendero · « **Reply #31 on:** May 04, 2009, 04:16:51 AM »

Yes, they are one of many groups that think we owe them something, in fact the members of the "groups" are outnumbering the providers.

WolfTrap · « **Reply #32 on:** May 04, 2009, 03:58:40 PM »

Quote from: torpedoman on May 03, 2009, 03:46:18 PM

the UNION got NOTHING for free the 55% ownership costs them their retirement and medical benifits the company fails they get nothing for a careers work. please when you read the paper read it ALL.

My Shooting Friends,
I would be lying if I typed out "LOL"!
It hurts my heart we're at it again, like we did during the 90's.
This time...no holds barred insulting, label mongering, ranking on Brother Shooter's and from the looks of it, soon to be threatening each other on the DMZ?
With so many members on this site, can't believe there isn't a ton of heartbreak of those (Union Members?) whom don't participate "Bang the Keys" responses?
If anyone doesn't mind me answering my own question...it's because of a handful of jerks who will stop at nothing owning the "Boards"!
Don't let them prevent your adding to this topic or any other!
WT
PS: The Union members have banked their future on this deal..... have a heart and get on board saving this Country that has been raped for the past 8 years! The Union didn't drag Our Country down....the AXX'O Bush did!
Mission Accomplish!!

Oldshooter · « **Reply #33 on:** May 04, 2009, 04:12:22 PM »

Because you are in the minority opinion here Pard does not mean that we who disagree are a "handful of jerks who will stop at nothing owning the "Boards"! "

We just dont have the same opinion as you, and we ain't gonna apologise because we dont! We have a right to speak our minds, the president has not taken that away yet! and I ain't "banging keys". I'm calmly stating the facts, but I can hear the echo of your keys banging.
Cant we just agree to disagree?

nomosendero · « **Reply #34 on:** May 04, 2009, 04:34:52 PM »

Ahh, the past 8 years & not the Union's fault, we could have never seen that one coming.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #35 on:** May 04, 2009, 04:46:34 PM »

Anyone who supported BHO is not a brother shooter, they are turncoats, traitors, vermin and scum. Nothing more you have sold the constitution for a few crumbs. Union guys are the nonacheivers, resting on their senority to get them ahead. Hard work is not a good thing amongst union trash, getting as much pay for as little work. Yes union lazy labor you are the ones who have made America unable to compete in the world market now quit your whining about the hole YOU have dug and get to work and help the decent hard working Americans dig us out. Or aint helping us dig ourselves out in your job description?

BTW Wolfy, how about you tell us how BHO jokes will get this listed as a hate sight. Whiners like you were insulting and bashing Bush for the las 8 years, now you cry like babies when the shoe is on the other foot.

JPShelton · « **Reply #36 on:** May 05, 2009, 01:47:35 AM »

Quote from: Mikey on May 01, 2009, 12:51:13 AM

Oh yeah, Cadillac will be the new Studebaker. When they used to say 'smoke'm up on the way out of the lot' they don't mean the tires - it's usually the engine on those that started smokin' before the thing even left the lot.

A friend has an Avanti R2 with its original "non-smoking" drivetrain that will definitely smoke tires. It ain't just a cool ride for a 46 year old car. It is a cool ride, period. Its unrestored but in great shape and seems to have worn really, really well. I wound't mind having an R-1 in my garage, myself. Nor would I balk at having a Cadillac CTS in my driveway. Having driven one to the limit at Bob Bondurant's driving school at the Firebird Raceway, I give it two hearty thumbs up!

Quote

And the real problem is that he suckered the dumbest of all Americans into buying his scheme, which was not hard to do as they are quite stupid....

Nope. Not dumb and not the dumbest. I might agree with unmotivated, as in unwilling to work as hard as one's neighbor to obtain the things one's neighbor has worked hard to obtain. I would definitely agree with selfish, as they feel entitled to a portion of what I work hard to earn. But they aren't all dumb. Misguided, perhaps. Immoral at times. Selfish and arrogant nearly always, but they aren't dumb. They want to sit on their azzes and have government take care of their needs and wants. Two candidates promised to do that to varying degrees. They voted for the one that seems to be actually delivering on that promise. Seems pretty smart, to me.

Quote

and should not be allowed to vote, because now he will just continue to raise the amount every year and they will continue to say yes to their new Masta.....

Why shouldn't they be allowed to vote? With that comment, the quoted poster sounds kind of like Janet Napolitano, and that ought to scare anyone who treasures freedom, liberty, and our republican democracy. Oh, wait! I get it! They don't agree with the poster's view, so they aren't entitled to exercise their franchise! Nope.... Still sounds like Janet Napolitano to me. How about this. How about engaging in the war of ideas with the intention of winning the hearts and minds of our fellow citizens to the side of liberty, freedom, personal accountability, opportunity, and prosperity, giving them a real alternative to sending one Robin Hood or the other to the White House? Instead of giving them a choice between liberal (I'm going to give you some of what you think you are entitled to) and "liberaler" (I'm going to give you everything you're entitled to, whether you think you are or not), how about a choice between "liberaler" and one who vows to get the he11 out of your way so that you can go out and earn as much as your drive, determination, and ambition will allow?

Quote

I think we truly do need another revolution.

Agreed. The problem is that our society as a whole is one which no longer values sacrafice, hard work, personal responsibility, and liberty. If it did, the Obamination wouldn't have won the election. I don't think a revolution is on the horizon because in order to have one, you have to have revolutionaries who care more about their cause than themselves.

-JP
[/quote]

WolfTrap · « **Reply #37 on:** May 05, 2009, 06:06:11 AM »

Quote from: billy_56081 on May 04, 2009, 04:46:34 PM

Anyone who supported BHO is not a brother shooter, they are turncoats, traitors, vermin and scum. Nothing more you have sold the constitution for a few crumbs. Union guys are the nonacheivers, resting on their senority to get them ahead. Hard work is not a good thing amongst union trash, getting as much pay for as little work. Yes union lazy labor you are the ones who have made America unable to compete in the world market now quit your whining about the hole YOU have dug and get to work and help the decent hard working Americans dig us out. Or aint helping us dig ourselves out in your job description?

BTW Wolfy, how about you tell us how BHO jokes will get this listed as a hate sight. Whiners like you were insulting and bashing Bush for the las 8 years, now you cry like babies when the shoe is on the other foot.

Well, here we go!?
The only Traitors-Vermin-Scum I know are those who supported Bush-Hitler ramming a non-winnable war on all of us so as to give Hell-Burton Corp. Cart Blanc emptying the US Treasury! Traitors-Vermin-Scum who supported Bush-Hitler ramming down HLS down US citizens throats by combining FBI and CIA to operate in the Fifty States. By law, the CIA didn't have the right to operate here at home, but outside our boarders....period! What was the first thing that happened? Glad you asked! They used portions of the new law to monitor and arrest a porn shop owner openly contributing to a Democrat councilman in Las Vegas! Yeah, he was a threat to U.S security. Banning U.S Citizens, Firemen, Policmen and anyone openly apposed to Bush's War from fly outside their Country! Ask the Arizona Fireman who ran a open blog about his objecting against Bush's War and was put on the No-Fly list pronto!
Traitors-Vermin-Scum who voted in and supported the California GOP Governor banning 50 Cal. any firearm! I can go on about different firearms and whine, but most of you get the gist.
As for Unions? Well, for hard work and a combine stretch of 35 years, not missing a day of work for years at a time....We have a home, 401K, Medical both for my wife and I. Good Daughters and grandchildren. We travel the U.S.A and visited Countries abroad.
As for another topic located elsewhere, yes I object! I was brought up to never, never to use race jokes from a Loving Mother who would in turn wash our mouths out with soap and sent to bed without supper!
As for name calling.....we didn't let her hear them!
Now, I view race jokes as uncouth, hurtful and just plain low class by those who bandy them about as "Just for fun?
Thanks for combining both topics in your rant!
LOL,
WolfTrap

WolfTrap · « **Reply #38 on:** May 05, 2009, 06:11:42 AM »

Quote from: Oldshooter on May 04, 2009, 04:12:22 PM

Because you are in the minority opinion here Pard does not mean that we who disagree are a "handful of jerks who will stop at nothing owning the "Boards"! "

We just dont have the same opinion as you, and we ain't gonna apologise because we dont! We have a right to speak our minds, the president has not taken that away yet! and I ain't "banging keys". I'm calmly stating the facts, but I can hear the echo of your keys banging.
Cant we just agree to disagree?

OS,
I hear you Compa!
Not looking for any apologies and wouldn't welcome them.
Yes, lets agree to disagree!
That's what our Country is based on.....Freedom of Choice!
WolfTrap

DDZ · « **Reply #39 on:** May 05, 2009, 10:57:04 AM »

With unionized workers there is no incentive to work harder, or better yourself within the company you work for. If
one union worker works hard and takes on more responsability he does not make a cent more than the lazy union worker. All I see unions doing is breeding laziness. I have noticed the people that think unions are good for America are generaly the same people that hate capitalism, and love politicians like Obama, who hates capitalism. Why is this? After all its capitalism that has made America rich.

I really would like to hear from someone that can explain, how unions are good for America. Something like, how they help company's that want to do business in this country, and maybe how they create a good work force for a company trying to do business and make a profit in this country. I just have a really hard time understanding how unions are good for America. Wolftrap can you help me out here, to better understand this?

Oldshooter · « **Reply #40 on:** May 05, 2009, 12:05:17 PM »

Let me try. And I'm not a proponent of union labor I assure you!

There was a time when large corporations/ businesses took advantage of labor. bad working conditions, and low pay. Coal miners getting killed and dieing with no effort to protect them.

Workers organized to collective bargain and stop the misery! and things got better. So at one time the unions were a welcome relief for thousands of workers. But government got involved as did organised crime. Politicians saw a chance to garner votes and the system became what it is now.

A good thing was abused and distorted and made into something that has made industry too heavy to carry by the companies that are going away now. Simple but real!

I'd say mostly the government involvement was the turning point, so this "new deal" is sure to make a mess of things!

JPShelton · « **Reply #41 on:** May 05, 2009, 11:22:51 PM »

Quote

The only Traitors-Vermin-Scum I know are those who supported Bush-Hitler ramming a non-winnable war on all of us so as to give Hell-Burton Corp. Cart Blanc emptying the US Treasury!

This sort of communication, as quoted above, never ceases to amaze me. I always thought that since I lean toward the conservative side of the political spectrum, that I must be the one filled with hate and intolerance. Progressives are supposed to have the monopoly on compassion and caring, and tend to paint themselves as being above such crass name-calling. Hence, my amazement.....

I supported the war and still do. It may not be "winnable," but I know one sure-fire way to lose it, and that would be to not bother with fighting it.

I would challenge the quoted poster to consider what it would be like to live in a world in which oil is traded internationally in Euros exclusively, rather than U.S. Dollars. And yes, that question DOES have something to do with why we invaded Iraq and took out Saddam.

As a person who served in the United States Marine Corps, I resent being labled a traitor, vermin, or scum because I supported and still support our current military effort in Iraq.

Quote

Traitors-Vermin-Scum who supported Bush-Hitler ramming down HLS down US citizens throats by combining FBI and CIA to operate in the Fifty States.

I still think the Bush-Hitler thing is a trifle harsh, but if it were possible to apply it anywhere without defying logic and reason, this would probably be the right place. I didn't like the whole HLS thing then and I certainly don't now that Janet Napolatano is running the show and basically suggesting that I am an enemy of the state as a fundamentalist Christian and gun owner. The whole HLS/Patriot Act thing is tantamount to trading personal liberty and freedom for a false sense of security, and should never have become the law of the land in the land of the free.

Quote

I was brought up to never, never to use race jokes from a Loving Mother who would in turn wash our mouths out with soap and sent to bed without supper!

Apparently, "Mom" didn't have an issue with calling those that you disagree with fascists or equating them with penultimate evil, no matter how ridiculous the analogy really is.

I am no fan of George Bush, but I don't hate him enough to call him "Hitler" or equate his actions to those of Hitler. To do so in this case doesn't villify Bush as much as it lessens the level of evil that Hitler truly represented, if the intended assumption is that both are equally evil. They aren't, and of the two, Hitler was much, much worse.

-JP

JPShelton · « **Reply #42 on:** May 06, 2009, 12:16:55 AM »

Quote from: WolfTrap on May 04, 2009, 03:58:40 PM

The Union didn't drag Our Country down....the AXX'O Bush did!
Mission Accomplish!!

The quote above is totally true in one sense. A union did not drag our country down. It is false, however to blame Bush for the state that our economy is in. It isn't Bush's fault or Clinton's fault or even Obama's fault. What turned this diamond into a turd is greed.

In other words, we did this to ourselves. We did it by spending more than we earn on stuff we really couldn't afford, taking out loans that we couldn't repay to do it. Cheap and easy credit helped that happen. Greed took over from there.

-JP

Oldshooter · « **Reply #43 on:** May 06, 2009, 05:15:54 AM »

Quote

This sort of communication, as quoted above, never ceases to amaze me. I always thought that since I lean toward the conservative side of the political spectrum, that I must be the one filled with hate and intolerance. Progressives are supposed to have the monopoly on compassion and caring, and tend to paint themselves as being above such crass name-calling. Hence, my amazement.....

AINT IT AMAZING!

WolfTrap · « **Reply #44 on:** May 06, 2009, 02:54:47 PM »

Quote from: DDZ on May 05, 2009, 10:57:04 AM

With unionized workers there is no incentive to work harder, or better yourself within the company you work for. If
one union worker works hard and takes on more responsability he does not make a cent more than the lazy union worker. All I see unions doing is breeding laziness. I have noticed the people that think unions are good for America are generaly the same people that hate capitalism, and love politicians like Obama, who hates capitalism. Why is this? After all its capitalism that has made America rich.

I really would like to hear from someone that can explain, how unions are good for America. Something like, how they help company's that want to do business in this country, and maybe how they create a good work force for a company trying to do business and make a profit in this country. I just have a really hard time understanding how unions are good for America. Wolftrap can you help me out here, to better understand this?

Well, only if one you folks explain "Lazy" and who does it apply to?
Reason I'm asking for it definition because I get there's a underline "High Five" among the more rabid folks who will not see beyond their eyelashes?
Later,
WT

jimster · « **Reply #45 on:** May 06, 2009, 03:36:47 PM »

Heck, let's just keep it simple. I don't think one penny of my money out of my paycheck should go to the Unions/GM, cause I don't work there.
Repeat...I don't work there. Did anyone notice I said I don't work there?

Simple enough?

WolfTrap · « **Reply #46 on:** May 06, 2009, 03:45:11 PM »

Quote from: JPShelton on May 05, 2009, 11:22:51 PM

Quote
The only Traitors-Vermin-Scum I know are those who supported Bush-Hitler ramming a non-winnable war on all of us so as to give Hell-Burton Corp. Cart Blanc emptying the US Treasury!

This sort of communication, as quoted above, never ceases to amaze me. I always thought that since I lean toward the conservative side of the political spectrum, that I must be the one filled with hate and intolerance. Progressives are supposed to have the monopoly on compassion and caring, and tend to paint themselves as being above such crass name-calling. Hence, my amazement.....

I supported the war and still do. It may not be "winnable," but I know one sure-fire way to lose it, and that would be to not bother with fighting it.

I would challenge the quoted poster to consider what it would be like to live in a world in which oil is traded internationally in Euros exclusively, rather than U.S. Dollars. And yes, that question DOES have something to do with why we invaded Iraq and took out Saddam.

As a person who served in the United States Marine Corps, I resent being labled a traitor, vermin, or scum because I supported and still support our current military effort in Iraq.

Quote
Traitors-Vermin-Scum who supported Bush-Hitler ramming down HLS down US citizens throats by combining FBI and CIA to operate in the Fifty States.

I still think the Bush-Hitler thing is a trifle harsh, but if it were possible to apply it anywhere without defying logic and reason, this would probably be the right place. I didn't like the whole HLS thing then and I certainly don't now that Janet Napolatano is running the show and basically suggesting that I am an enemy of the state as a fundamentalist Christian and gun owner. The whole HLS/Patriot Act thing is tantamount to trading personal liberty and freedom for a false sense of security, and should never have become the law of the land in the land of the free.

Quote
I was brought up to never, never to use race jokes from a Loving Mother who would in turn wash our mouths out with soap and sent to bed without supper!

Apparently, "Mom" didn't have an issue with calling those that you disagree with fascists or equating them with penultimate evil, no matter how ridiculous the analogy really is.

I am no fan of George Bush, but I don't hate him enough to call him "Hitler" or equate his actions to those of Hitler. To do so in this case doesn't villify Bush as much as it lessens the level of evil that Hitler truly represented, if the intended assumption is that both are equally evil. They aren't, and of the two, Hitler was much, much worse.

-JP

OK....I regress!
Your right.
When I did reply to other sites with similar ire towards my responses, I always used President Bush in respect for the Office of the President.
Also....remember.....any one who uses harsh language and gay metaphors.....I'm drawing from the hip in turn.
I'll state my case once more....President Bush II went to War on his terms, not the American public.
WMD's didn't exist.
No Super Flu Labs.
No "Dirty Bombs.
Not one cent to this date can be found that Iraq paid the Two Towers getting smash down.
Of the 19 "Terrorist" that killed innocent people:3 were Afghanistan and 16 Saudi Arabians?
Why didn't he bomb the 16 terrorist country? Note: This one question is rhetorical. Don't bother to answer!
Ten Trillion Dollar Debt left to you and I?
Most of President Bush II friends and partners will be called to The Congress facing criminal charges in what has been a shameful breach if ethics promoting the invasion of Iraq without proof that Iraq financed the attack of the two towers! And there's good old Wolf-The-Wiz....who planned the Iraq War in 1998?
No.....it was the Bush's War and historians will be the final judge to their legacy?
One more item since it's rather obvious were I stand. I voted for President Obama since I couldn't for vote for the other candidate's.
My blood has been in this Land for thousands of years and I'll be damned voting for a party that in the last fifteen years has promoted an Anger/Hate Doctrine towards my Latino Heritage!
Hence....the first question.
WolfTrap
PS: For those who complain about Our Country is going to belly up....leave! Go back to those Countries you originated from? Those of us who are at least a thousand years living and dying in Northern America...you're stuck with it!

Dee · « **Reply #47 on:** May 06, 2009, 03:50:13 PM »

Quote from: jimster on May 06, 2009, 03:36:47 PM

Heck, let's just keep it simple. I don't think one penny of my money out of my paycheck should go to the Unions/GM, cause I don't work there.
Repeat...I don't work there. Did anyone notice I said I don't work there?

Simple enough?

But! But! jimster! Your FROM Michigan. You must know that the UAW is responsible for your very existence? Don't you realize that if it weren't for the UAW, you'd be riding a horse, or worse yet WALKING? Without the UAW, America itself cannot survive.
We simply MUST bail their little Socialist begging butts out of this hole they have dug for themselves. If not we're all doomed.

jimster · « **Reply #48 on:** May 06, 2009, 04:05:43 PM »

Hey Dee....maybe I'm just looking at this all wrong.

By the way, since somone invested my money in this company...what do you think my return will be? Besides feeling warm and fuzy all over.

Dee · « **Reply #49 on:** May 06, 2009, 04:17:36 PM »

I figure you'll get as much back as I will. But what the heck. Poor white southern trash such as myself has no real need for money anyway. It's the great northern Yankee that needs the money. They couldn't balance a peanut on their UNION NOSES, much less a bank book.
Nobody down here askin for a bailout, or expecting one. I just wish the damn Yankees would sleep in their own horse crap, and forget I'm alive. They are a loud mouthed union burden begging for a handout, as only a northern elitist failure can do. Demanding and then bi83hing if we don't hurry with the check, while they try and make fun of us all the way. If we're so stupid, how come their the ones losing their jobs.

jimster · « **Reply #50 on:** May 06, 2009, 04:25:57 PM »

It's not easy being a northerner in a blue State with a union here Dee...kind of embarrassing now that ya brought it up.

But if a couple of yankees can move when I retire, the wife wants to go to Texas and live there, sure hope we'll be welcome in the south when we move.
She told me today she does not even want me to stay working much longer, she is itching to get to Texas real soon. Maybe the yankee thing will wear off after we get there.

Dee · « **Reply #51 on:** May 06, 2009, 04:54:18 PM »

jimster, I mean no insult to folks like you with level heads, not wanting or expecting a handout, while these union beggars are all the time kicking the dog that's protecting their sorry failure azz.
My neighbor voted for the Fool in the White House and goes to the same church as I. He has had to block much email from some of his friends, (former friends in some cases), as he got mad at their remarks. He is a born and raised Texan that has a daughter I dated back in the 60s. It is beyond me why he voted for that moron but, he at least now is proud of it.
If all these union boys are so damn crazy about the UAW, they should give the UAW part of THEIR union benefits. I OWE THEM NOTHING, and as long as they whine, I will continue to make fun of them. I wish Texas WOULD SECEDE out of this northern mess, and let them clean it up themselves.

Oldshooter · « **Reply #52 on:** May 06, 2009, 05:28:22 PM »

Quote

WMD's didn't exist.

I'll have to beg your pardons since this is a little off the track but.......
There has been something bugging me since this first came up after the Invasion.

The UN inspectors thought there was.
The CIA Intelligence said there was, the Secretary of defense said there was. The President said there was....................That would be during the Clinton Administration!

Why is it that leftist have such poor memories?

Could it be that it just is easy to make that argument after the fact.

Would it dawn on anyone that during all the time that the bureaucracy was going on and Sadam was stone walling that he was moving any thing out or destroying it. HEHADPOISONGASHEUSEDIT.

So lets have an honest dialog about this (if we're gonna have one) no partisan play book responses.
I Will be the first to say that I wish we had not gone into Iraq, and there was plenty of mistakes made there. but all criticism Now is after the fact armchair quarterback BS

And that Statement is just pure disingenuous partisan crap!

as is this

Quote

Anger/Hate Doctrine towards my Latino Heritage!

gypsyman · « **Reply #53 on:** May 07, 2009, 03:13:52 AM »

Oldshooter, you have to remember that some people only remember what is convenient to them. They'll never remember the 25+ countries that were with us when we into Iraq. That Saddam had 10+ years to comply with either us,(U.S.) or the U.N. And he didn't do it.
I will remember, Bush started this whole bailout/stimulis/bankruptcy crap that's going on now. Obama is just taking it to a new level. It will destroy this country, just at a faster rate. It was coming anyhow. I can't blame just the unions. Business had alot to do with it, govt., but the biggest abuser, us. We should have stood our ground 40+ years ago, demanded no overseas products without tariff's. Want to blame a president, start with Nixon, he opened up trade with China. Back in the early '60's, everybody thought it was a joke to have a Japanese radio, or motorcycle. Want to blame Eisenhower or Kennedy for that?
Like I said in my earlier post, won't make much difference. Couple years at best. gypsyman

Dee · « **Reply #54 on:** May 07, 2009, 03:22:39 AM »

Quote from: Oldshooter on May 06, 2009, 05:28:22 PM

Quote
WMD's didn't exist.

I'll have to beg your pardons since this is a little off the track but.......
There has been something bugging me since this first came up after the Invasion.

The UN inspectors thought there was.
The CIA Intelligence said there was, the Secretary of defense said there was. The President said there was....................That would be during the Clinton Administration!

Why is it that leftist have such poor memories?

Could it be that it just is easy to make that argument after the fact.

Would it dawn on anyone that during all the time that the bureaucracy was going on and Sadam was stone walling that he was moving any thing out or destroying it. HEHADPOISONGASHEUSEDIT.

So lets have an honest dialog about this (if we're gonna have one) no partisan play book responses.
I Will be the first to say that I wish we had not gone into Iraq, and there was plenty of mistakes made there. but all criticism Now is after the fact armchair quarterback BS

And that Statement is just pure disingenuous partisan crap!

as is this
Quote
Anger/Hate Doctrine towards my Latino Heritage!

Oldshooter, China, Russia, Pakistan, India, and others have nuclear weapons. We, the U.S. are the only one's in HISTORY to ever actually USE THEM. Yet "WE" have decided that "WE" are the moral compass of what other countries can have and not have? Whom appointed us sheriff of the world? The "WORLD" resents this arrogance and rightly so.
Our government has entered an age of self-righteous, PREemptive strikes, in "what they might do" type of enforcement against other countries. We are trying to FORCE our brand of government on folks whom don't want it, much like the Christian Crusades of yesteryear, where we say: Change to our way of doing things or we will OCCUPY you. And we have proven that we indeed will.
We talk of the butchery of Saddam and his gas as you mentioned, yet YOUR TAX DOLLAR, thru government funding to Planned Parent Hood, has BUTCHERED 50,000,000 and counting BABIES. Saddam had not even approached this number, nor did Hitler and Saddam COMBINED, yet THEY ARE THE MEASURING STICK OF EVIL to this country the U.S. Our government holds itself accountable to NO ONE, including you and I yet we do nothing but JUSTIFY their actions, in comparison to such small time thugs as Saddam.
Bush called 3 countries the AXIS OF EVIL, and evil they indeed are, but do you really think we are doing the "Will of God", with out own butchering and making of war? We seem much like the old Rome, as WE are the righteous, and they the peasant, we lord over, and like Rome we are, and will suffer the same fate.
I love my country, I love my Constitution, and my Bill of Rights, however I love my God FIRST, and there are 50,000,000+ souls we have shipped back to Him saying: NO THANKS, we killed'em so you can have'm back. They were a burden to us. God Bless America?
We need to MIND OUR OWN DAMN BUSINESS, take care of OUR NEEDS, secure OUR BORDERS, and protect US. We have bankrupted our country protecting folks that hate us, but we spend nothing protecting US! We put Border Patrol Agents IN PRISON "UNDER BUSH" for shooting drug smugglers, and PARDON DOPE DEALERS, AND THEIVES.
Those Border Patrol Agents were HEROS, and Bush merely commuted their sentence to time served, while he PARDONED and wiped away the records of Dope Dealers, and Thieves. What a travesty of justice, and morality. We have lost our way, this country, and we have people that cannot even make up their minds, or refuse to defend their own homes under some type of pretense, when this same rogue government decides to INVADE THEM. Now this is the way I see things from a Christian's point of view, and I give not a hang whether ANYONE agrees with me.
I am an old man now, whom in the past, for 20 years DEFENDED other people's rights, AND THEIR HOMES, against what ever threat, and have the scars to prove it. I don't ask for thanks, nor do I expect it, as it was MY CHOICE, and it was the RIGHT CHOICE. Old yes, but make no mistake, I will STILL damn sure fight.

SO! Oldshooter, if I have offended you, I am sorry that you are offended, but what I gave you here is the TRUTH. And when the last U.S. boot leaves Iraq it will go back to the same type of misery it was before out self-righteous government sold that bill of goods to us almost 2 decades ago. Ask my son, he spent 2 tours over there watching his fellow 82nd Air Borne, AND OTHER BRANCHS, pay in blood. And he oughta know.
And bubba, before you or anyone else of the other side come back at me, you are wasting your breath. I do not now, nor will I ever, allow someone to invade my home. I signed onto this countries' ORIGINAL BILL OF RIGHTS, and it's ORIGINAL CONSTITUTION, and GOD GAVE ME MY FREEDOM, and FREEDOM AIN'T FREE. Now I'm done.

beerbelly · « **Reply #55 on:** May 07, 2009, 03:26:48 AM »

WolfTrap let me explain something to you! G W Bush is NOT the president! That malto , fag looking guy is.
Beerbelly

Oldshooter · « **Reply #56 on:** May 07, 2009, 05:06:56 AM »

Quote

PREemptive strikes, in "what they might do"

ALL I WILL SAY ABOUT THAT IS HELL YEA !

Quote

I do not now, nor will I ever, allow someone to invade my home.

By your own words!

To have an intelligent discussion we will at least have to compare apples to apples!
I was discussing the dilema I have with the left that try to always use that argument about Bush and the war. LIke the war or not that is a lame ignorant excuse!

I said I wished we had not gone there but that is all hind sight! The man did what he thought was the right thing. I can no more be blamed for the war than you can, I only voted for him. as did you If I remember correctly.

To turn my post about WMD into bashing me about abortion like I personally endorse it is disingenuous to say the least!

I have more respect for folk that shoot abortionist than I do for folk that just whine about abortion!

WolfTrap · « **Reply #57 on:** May 07, 2009, 10:49:19 AM »

Quote from: Dee on May 07, 2009, 03:22:39 AM

Quote from: Oldshooter on May 06, 2009, 05:28:22 PM
Quote
WMD's didn't exist.

I'll have to beg your pardons since this is a little off the track but.......
There has been something bugging me since this first came up after the Invasion.

The UN inspectors thought there was.
The CIA Intelligence said there was, the Secretary of defense said there was. The President said there was....................That would be during the Clinton Administration!

Why is it that leftist have such poor memories?

Could it be that it just is easy to make that argument after the fact.

Would it dawn on anyone that during all the time that the bureaucracy was going on and Sadam was stone walling that he was moving any thing out or destroying it. HEHADPOISONGASHEUSEDIT.

So lets have an honest dialog about this (if we're gonna have one) no partisan play book responses.
I Will be the first to say that I wish we had not gone into Iraq, and there was plenty of mistakes made there. but all criticism Now is after the fact armchair quarterback BS

And that Statement is just pure disingenuous partisan crap!

as is this
Quote
Anger/Hate Doctrine towards my Latino Heritage!

Oldshooter, China, Russia, Pakistan, India, and others have nuclear weapons. We, the U.S. are the only one's in HISTORY to ever actually USE THEM. Yet "WE" have decided that "WE" are the moral compass of what other countries can have and not have? Whom appointed us sheriff of the world? The "WORLD" resents this arrogance and rightly so.
Our government has entered an age of self-righteous, PREemptive strikes, in "what they might do" type of enforcement against other countries. We are trying to FORCE our brand of government on folks whom don't want it, much like the Christian Crusades of yesteryear, where we say: Change to our way of doing things or we will OCCUPY you. And we have proven that we indeed will.
We talk of the butchery of Saddam and his gas as you mentioned, yet YOUR TAX DOLLAR, thru government funding to Planned Parent Hood, has BUTCHERED 50,000,000 and counting BABIES. Saddam had not even approached this number, nor did Hitler and Saddam COMBINED, yet THEY ARE THE MEASURING STICK OF EVIL to this country the U.S. Our government holds itself accountable to NO ONE, including you and I yet we do nothing but JUSTIFY their actions, in comparison to such small time thugs as Saddam.
Bush called 3 countries the AXIS OF EVIL, and evil they indeed are, but do you really think we are doing the "Will of God", with out own butchering and making of war? We seem much like the old Rome, as WE are the righteous, and they the peasant, we lord over, and like Rome we are, and will suffer the same fate.
I love my country, I love my Constitution, and my Bill of Rights, however I love my God FIRST, and there are 50,000,000+ souls we have shipped back to Him saying: NO THANKS, we killed'em so you can have'm back. They were a burden to us. God Bless America?
We need to MIND OUR OWN DAMN BUSINESS, take care of OUR NEEDS, secure OUR BORDERS, and protect US. We have bankrupted our country protecting folks that hate us, but we spend nothing protecting US! We put Border Patrol Agents IN PRISON "UNDER BUSH" for shooting drug smugglers, and PARDON DOPE DEALERS, AND THEIVES.
Those Border Patrol Agents were HEROS, and Bush merely commuted their sentence to time served, while he PARDONED and wiped away the records of Dope Dealers, and Thieves. What a travesty of justice, and morality. We have lost our way, this country, and we have people that cannot even make up their minds, or refuse to defend their own homes under some type of pretense, when this same rogue government decides to INVADE THEM. Now this is the way I see things from a Christian's point of view, and I give not a hang whether ANYONE agrees with me.
I am an old man now, whom in the past, for 20 years DEFENDED other people's rights, AND THEIR HOMES, against what ever threat, and have the scars to prove it. I don't ask for thanks, nor do I expect it, as it was MY CHOICE, and it was the RIGHT CHOICE. Old yes, but make no mistake, I will STILL damn sure fight. SO! Oldshooter, if I have offended you, I am sorry that you are offended, but what I gave you here is the TRUTH. And when the last U.S. boot leaves Iraq it will go back to the same type of misery it was before out self-righteous government sold that bill of goods to us almost 2 decades ago. Ask my son, he spent 2 tours over there watching his fellow 82nd Air Borne, AND OTHER BRANCHS, pay in blood. And he oughta know.
And bubba, before you or anyone else of the other side come back at me, you are wasting your breath. I do not now, nor will I ever, allow someone to invade my home. I signed onto this countries' ORIGINAL BILL OF RIGHTS, and it's ORIGINAL CONSTITUTION, and GOD GAVE ME MY FREEDOM, and FREEDOM AIN'T FREE. Now I'm done.

Whew!
Seems you've said it all!
I'll consider all that's going to be pounded into stone has transpired?
Nuff said, I'm also done

Wife and I are getting on the HD....heading out for beer and pizza up the street!
Later,
WolfTrap

Dee · « **Reply #58 on:** May 07, 2009, 11:14:19 AM »

Quote from: Oldshooter on May 07, 2009, 05:06:56 AM

Quote
PREemptive strikes, in "what they might do"

ALL I WILL SAY ABOUT THAT IS HELL YEA !

Quote
I do not now, nor will I ever, allow someone to invade my home.

By your own words!

To have an intelligent discussion we will at least have to compare apples to apples!
I was discussing the dilema I have with the left that try to always use that argument about Bush and the war. LIke the war or not that is a lame ignorant excuse!

I said I wished we had not gone there but that is all hind sight! The man did what he thought was the right thing. I can no more be blamed for the war than you can, I only voted for him. as did you If I remember correctly.

To turn my post about WMD into bashing me about abortion like I personally endorse it is disingenuous to say the least!

I have more respect for folk that shoot abortionist than I do for folk that just whine about abortion!

Well Oldshooter, I believe you took my rant completely wrong if you thought I was pointing ANYTHING at you. I was merely comparing the Bush to the Bama. Yes, I did vote for the Bush. TWICE! He was and is the biggest disappointment I have ever voted for, and I have voted for more than a few. As far as Bush doing what he thought was right, I will totally disagree here. He did what he WANTED TO DO. That Iraq was in anyway responsible for 911 was NEVER eluded to. That he was a threat IN ANY WAY to the US was not really eluded to. He was just not doing what the US wanted him to do.
That he violated UN sanctions? Who the the hell cares. I will violate UN sanctions also as they have NO AUTHORITY OVER ME. I disagreed with you Oldshooter, and I used examples of the BUSH BS, to verify my points, however I blame you for nothing. My rant on defending ones self, and country is a spill over from another thread, that amazes me. We are friends, are we not?

Oldshooter · « **Reply #59 on:** May 07, 2009, 11:48:02 AM »

Quote

We are friends, are we not?

Well I do consider us friends but we do disagree on some things(like Iraq, and McCain) not so much McCain but on who we should have voted for. I think MCCain is definitely the lesser evil! Not who I wanted but definitely better than we got. But I do not want to go there now!

Let me try to clear this up. Whether you think Iraq was a good idea or not! I think now in retrospect it was not and I am sorry we went there. NOW!

The argument that wmd was not there is a bunch of crap. Now we ain't arguing whether we should have gone there. just the fact that there was some WMD. I know there was. Lefties like Wolftrap keep making the argument that there was not cause we did not find any! Well the sob used some on his own people so I know he had it.

What really chaps my behind is that post up there where Wolfy laughs cause he thinks you made his argument for him.(See the condescending little chicken crap post he made) Cause you waylaid my post about WMD thinking I was advocating the war IT WAS NOT ABOUT THE WAR IT WAS ABOUT THE DAMNED ARGUMENT HE MADE ABOUT WMD

But I am alright now cause the dammage is done! and it is over.