Author Topic: The next civil war (Read 1424 times)

Questor · « **on:** May 02, 2009, 01:12:50 AM »

I believe that the next civil war will be fought over barbecue. Our strong regionalism in this matter is extreme. To a Texan, if isn't brisket, it isn't barbecue. To a Floridian it isn't barbecue if it isn't southern pit style ribs, with some chicken thrown in for good measure. Then there are the smoked contingents such as St. Louis and Memphis. Even northerners like Minnesotans get into the act, but do so incompetently with their crazy mass market approach to industrial cooking techniques. Then there are the big sauce companies, who like Krupps in WWI, supplies so many barbecue restaurants regardless of regional definition.

I hope the republic survives.

I fear for my life here in Minnesota, where I have created a surreptitious gas grill version of pit barbecue that simulates (reasonably well) good old Florida Open Pit. I have to burn old innertubes and leaves to keep the neighbors from suspecting my true activities. I have to say reasonably well because it's not as good as Open Pit heavens like Sonny's in Tallahassee or the sadly defunct Uncle Tom's in Miami.

Cement Man · « **Reply #1 on:** May 02, 2009, 04:13:52 AM »

Good post Questor - BBQ stirs up real passions!

I love Wisconsin and Minnesota but I have to say that there is no really good BBQ in the north (in my opinion). Famous Dave's isn't even in the contest for me. My favorites (like anyone would care) - Kansas City has many places with the best brisket; should change its name to Brisket City, Owensboro Kentucky is the burgoo capital of the world - good mutton too (Moonlight BBQ, KIng Charles, George's), Ribs - Gridley's in Memphis, Pulled pork sandwiches - Witts in Nashville and Carl's Perfect Pig near Pegram TN. I lived in Owensboro and Pegram so I am prejudiced.
On the other hand - if it aint made in Chicago, it aint pizza. (Well, one of our best friends has a country store in Pleasant Ridge, Ky. and she does make a great pizza).

Graybeard · « **Reply #2 on:** May 02, 2009, 04:18:56 AM »

Quote

On the other hand - if it aint made in Chicago, it aint pizza. (Well, one of our best friends has a country store in Pleasant Ridge, Ky. and she does make a great pizza).

Dunno about that don't think I ever ate pizza in Chicago but I do recall a little place in Davenport, IA called the Davenport Pizza Works that was I think the best pizza I've ever eaten anywhere bar none. Dat wuz good pizza.

kinslayer1965 · « **Reply #3 on:** May 02, 2009, 04:29:09 AM »

I gotto agree with Questor, there is no place to beat Sonny's ribs. We have a Sonny's right here in Stuart in fact I think I might head over for lunch. Sorry!

Chicago pizza? Not a pizza conisuer, in fact I even I hate to admit it, had pineapple on piza and liked it. I hear that is next to heresy for true pizza lovers....but it was pretty darn tasty.

As far as barbque goes are you more of a dry rub or wet sause. I prefer the dry rub and smoked.

Great topic.

i didn't thinkit was possible to get a grill hot enough to cook in Minnesota. I thought you lived in igloos.

CR

Cement Man · « **Reply #4 on:** May 02, 2009, 05:19:31 AM »

Quote from: Graybeard on May 02, 2009, 04:18:56 AM

Quote
On the other hand - if it aint made in Chicago, it aint pizza. (Well, one of our best friends has a country store in Pleasant Ridge, Ky. and she does make a great pizza).

Dunno about that don't think I ever ate pizza in Chicago but I do recall a little place in Davenport, IA called the Davenport Pizza Works that was I think the best pizza I've ever eaten anywhere bar none. Dat wuz good pizza.

I now live out in the country about 45 miles from Davenport, and we go there often for shopping, doctors, etc. I usually go to the Cracker Barrel, but I'll have to try the Pizza Works. Thanks!

Cement Man · « **Reply #5 on:** May 02, 2009, 05:24:51 AM »

Quote from: kinslayer1965 on May 02, 2009, 04:29:09 AM

Chicago pizza? Not a pizza conisuer, in fact I even I hate to admit it, had pineapple on piza and liked it. I hear that is next to heresy for true pizza lovers....but it was pretty darn tasty.

I think that we can get you some much needed counselling!!! (Meanwhile I wouldn't be telling a lot of people that you had pineapple on a pizza.)

petemi · « **Reply #6 on:** May 02, 2009, 05:44:45 AM »

I'm full blooded Italian, was stationed in Naples for three years. I had the best Pizza ever at Pizza Metro on the Sorrento Peninsula. The Pizza came by the square meter. They put it on pans that size that drop into steel frames which become your table. It was just superb, wood fire baked. That and a carafe of Sorrento red wine, yes

Pete

Cement Man · « **Reply #7 on:** May 02, 2009, 07:23:33 AM »

Sounds fantastic Pete. Wish it was closer!

Heather · « **Reply #8 on:** May 02, 2009, 12:11:03 PM »

Quote from: kinslayer1965 on May 02, 2009, 04:29:09 AM

I gotto agree with Questor, there is no place to beat Sonny's ribs. We have a Sonny's right here in Stuart in fact I think I might head over for lunch. Sorry!

Chicago pizza? Not a pizza conisuer, in fact I even I hate to admit it, had pineapple on piza and liked it. I hear that is next to heresy for true pizza lovers....but it was pretty darn tasty.

My fav pizza is homemade with bacon, ham, and pineapple. Matt don't eat it, but the boys LOVE it!

Heather

burntmuch · « **Reply #9 on:** May 02, 2009, 12:32:38 PM »

My stomach,s is grumbling, You guys gotta stop.

kansasj · « **Reply #10 on:** May 02, 2009, 02:55:59 PM »

Some of the best BBQ is when you have to do U-turns on tiny roads in Missouri and the south. Famous Dave's is not even in the same zip code as these little dives!
Ribs or brisket, sweet or sour its in the slow cookin and smoke. With some beans and cole slaw ya think ya died and went to heaven.

williamlayton · « **Reply #11 on:** May 02, 2009, 03:23:47 PM »

Briskets and Ribs--smoked not pit.
Now folks here in Texas, by God can't even agree.
Fat side up or down.
Don't need no steeeken sause.
I have driven all the way to Llano to eat Coopers.
Check a map and see Houston and Llano.
Now thats good meat.
Blessings

30-30man · « **Reply #12 on:** May 02, 2009, 03:35:24 PM »

The only BBQ for me is pork. Pit smoked with a vinager hot sauce, now that's good eatin. That's the way we do it here in NC and SC. The meat has to smoke/cook all night to be right at about 250 degrees. We use hickory and oak, propane is for city folks and beef is for the grill. I've tried BBQ everywhere and nothing beats smoked pork for BBQ

kansasj · « **Reply #13 on:** May 02, 2009, 04:07:09 PM »

30-30man--I think you are onto something---add just a little molasses and celery seed to your sauce and see what you've been missing out on!

kinslayer1965 · « **Reply #14 on:** May 02, 2009, 04:15:38 PM »

cement,

I am in a three step program right now but as luck would have it I have to drive right by sonny's and roma's pizza to go to the darn meetins.

Heather thanks for the back up.

Cement Man · « **Reply #15 on:** May 02, 2009, 04:54:52 PM »

Kinslayer, take it one day at a time, you'll make it!!

Heather, I knew Kinslayer was gonna see your post. Nothing wrong with feeding the kids Luau food - but that's not pizza!

I'll meet all of you in Chi-town and I'll buy the pizza! (Villa Nova)

swordfish · « **Reply #16 on:** May 02, 2009, 04:57:32 PM »

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm........TOM's. Miss that place.

Singleshotsam · « **Reply #17 on:** May 02, 2009, 05:36:06 PM »

If your ever in Memphis, near the Peabody, there is a little BBQ place down a back alley called the Rendevous. Dry rub, smoked, the best BBQ ribs i've ever tasted in my life. If I ever hear of anyone headed down to Memphis for the weekend you better believe they are coming back w/ a whole set of ribs for me

And I don't even like ribs usually

Next best place that I can actually drive to is called the Hickory Log in Dexter, MO. Man... that to is some good dry rub smoked ribs

Crap... now I'm hungry again

kinslayer1965 · « **Reply #18 on:** May 02, 2009, 06:27:18 PM »

Cement,

Have you ever walked into one of those meetins with sauce on your chin?

Pretty embarrising gotta tell you.

There is a place in Fort Pierce that has the best smoked pork and on thursdays they even have goat. It's not bad either. As soon as I remember the name of the place (memory is shot) I will postit.

Heather you just go on havin pineapple on your pizza. Some people are afraid to stretch the envelope and will never know what they are missing.

CR

Oldshooter · « **Reply #19 on:** May 02, 2009, 06:36:05 PM »

Pizza, ....PIZZA!!!,

The best Pizza in the world is served by an I talian family on the south side of the Island of Kauai, Hawaii USA, Who'da thunk it! It's called Brick oven Pizza and if you can eat more than two slices of that pizza and still walk you are one helluva man! Now the last time I was there was in 1986 So I'm not sure its still there. IF not then there is a void in the "pizza biness" and it will be sorely missed!

Now that we have established that!

We're talking BBQ here!

Now there are several places in this wee little place that makes some good BBQ. And I have been to most of them at one time or another. But one of the best is a place in Huntsville , Tex. It is a little shop set up next to a Church. The Ladies of that Church Started the BBQ biness a while back and if you happen to be in Huntsville around meal time Monday thru Friday you will eat Good BBQ. New Zion Missionary Baptist Church is where its at! Most in Huntsville call it "the church of the holy smoke" My oldest Daughter took me there once on a visit to see her at Sam Houston State. She said "Dad, you have to see this BBQ place! " So We went and I Did !

Quote

Horace and Mae Archie run this eatery that was started 25 years ago by one of the parishioners, Annie Mae Ward. According to Rev. Clinton Edison, the church pastor, Mrs. Ward's husband, D.C. Ward, was painting the church as Mrs. Ward was cooking her husband's lunch in a 55-gallon drum on the church lawn. Edison said, "Once she fired that pit up, she couldn't even cook dinner for people stopping and wanting to know if they were selling barbecue." The next week, Rev. A.C. Harris, the former pastor, gave Mrs. Ward $50 to start the business and the rest, as they say, is history.

Its Located Just off I-45 on Montgomery Road in Huntsville, Texas

Questor · « **Reply #20 on:** May 03, 2009, 03:27:55 AM »

CementMan:

That was quite an arousing post. We tried Famous Daves twice. (I gave them a second chance). Ugh. Expensive too.

As for pizza, I utterly lament the state of pizza in Minnesota. I make my own, and it's very good. (I truly love bread baking and had to get quite good at it because I can't find the breads I love in markets. That's the problem with travel, you pick up favorites that you can't get anyplace else.) As for Minnesota pizza, the best I've found has actually been Jack's frozen pizza, which is a cheap brand but is better than any Minnesota restaurant pizza I've ever had.

Anyway, I did quite a bit of work in Chicago and never actually lucked into good pizza. I'm unlucky that way. Kind of like the times I went to Texas and couldn't find good chili. I plumb struck out. I'm still traumatized by it. Another unlucky event was in Manhattan when I inquired about a good kosher deli and was sent to Ben's near Madison Square Garden. I really had my heart set on chopped liver, but they were out. I had a good meal anyway, but still yearn for the chopped liver.

GH1 · « **Reply #21 on:** May 03, 2009, 03:43:53 AM »

Rendevous in Memphis is very good, but there's also Intersate on Third St between Mallory & I-55 and Tom's at the corner of Raines & Getwell. To be quite honest with you I haven't been able to find bad barbecue in the Memphis area. Probably one of my favorites is a barbecue bologna sandwich, served on a bun with sauce & cole slaw. MMMM, Good!

GH1

Heather · « **Reply #22 on:** May 03, 2009, 05:19:29 AM »

Anyone ever tried pizza from the grill? It is amazing. You just take homemade pizza dough roll it out and throw it on. You can make anything on it doesn't have to be pizza. We call it flatbreads. Just follow 3 simple rules. Use something for the base (sauce of some sort) then add meat and toppings. It gives the pizza a smoked taste and all of the flavors blend. It is utterly melt in you mouth good. My fav is a sauce that is a bbq tomato paste blend then carna asada steak with peppers, oninons, sun dried tomatoes and lots of cheese!

Heather

kinslayer1965 · « **Reply #23 on:** May 03, 2009, 05:38:05 AM »

Heather,

I like your thinking.

My ex-wife cooked so bad the flies chipped in and bought us a screen door.

To this day the words "shake and bake" cause me to bang my head against the wall.

May not be barbeque but one of my favorites is vnison backstrap cut into 1" steaks marinated in soy suace, brown sugar, honey and garlic. I mix up all the marinade ingredients and vacuum seal the steaks in the marinade for 24 hours. About 3 minutes per side on a nice hot grill will do the trick. Marinade also works real well for kabobs with venison chunks, "pineapple"

, onions and green peppers.

I hate to admit it because cement will have me baker acted into some program but I use pineapple alot in my cooking.

CR

Questor · « **Reply #24 on:** May 03, 2009, 05:48:47 AM »

Heather:

Here are two of my EZ recipes for pizza sauce:

1) A 15 ounce can of Contadina or Hunts tomato sauce, a heaping tablespoon of tomato paste, a half teaspoon of dried "Italian herbs" blend from the spice section of the market. A dash of cayenne or Tabasco. Cook it in a saucepan at low heat until the paste and herbs are fully incorporated into the sauce. This should give a good thickness for pizza.

2) A can of tomato puree, no tomato paste, and everything else the same as 1.

This is much better than commercial pizza sauce in a can, and is not nearly as salty.

The good thing about 1 is that it's just right for making two pizzas suitable for a meal for a family of four. The problem with 2 is that you can only get puree in big cans, so you need to keep the extra sauce on hand. I usually do 1.

Heather · « **Reply #25 on:** May 03, 2009, 05:51:26 AM »

Quote from: kinslayer1965 on May 03, 2009, 05:38:05 AM

Heather,

I like your thinking.

My ex-wife cooked so bad the flies chipped in and bought us a screen door. To this day the words "shake and bake" cause me to bang my head against the wall.

CR

LOL I'm sure Matt feels that way when I say we're going to try something new! I like to experiment with food. Last week we ate fish that I baked with lemon pepper seasoning, lemon juice, orange juice, and orange peel shaved right on top of it. Oh and LOTS of butter. It was different, but it was good. Will have to try that one again. Now sometimes my experiments don't go so well, but it never hurts to try cause Matt knows how to open the spagettios! Darn I miss spell check.

Heather

kinslayer1965 · « **Reply #26 on:** May 03, 2009, 06:05:21 AM »

Heather,

You just keep on experimenting and if Matt complains too much just have him get in touch with me. I will let him know how lucky he is and give him some idea what shake and bake chicken 5 times a week can be like!

Being a Native Floridian fish is my specialty. I take chunk pineapple (cement is gonna love this) drain it and put it in a baking dish then slice onions and potatos (keeep the potatos real thin) layer them on top of the pineapple them season the fish as you please then lay the fillets on top. I them pour beringer white zin in till it almost touches the fish and bake for about 30 minutes at 350. Put the fillets on a plate and scoop out the goodies and put on top. I have used this with snapper, grouper, snook, cobia, tile fish, and bass. If you have smaller fillets you have to cut down on the time and slice you stuff a little thinner.

i could use a spell checker myself

CR

Cement Man · « **Reply #27 on:** May 03, 2009, 07:02:30 AM »

Quote from: Questor on May 03, 2009, 03:27:55 AM

CementMan:

That was quite an arousing post. We tried Famous Daves twice. (I gave them a second chance). Ugh. Expensive too.

As for pizza, I utterly lament the state of pizza in Minnesota. I make my own, and it's very good. (I truly love bread baking and had to get quite good at it because I can't find the breads I love in markets. That's the problem with travel, you pick up favorites that you can't get anyplace else.) As for Minnesota pizza, the best I've found has actually been Jack's frozen pizza, which is a cheap brand but is better than any Minnesota restaurant pizza I've ever had.

Anyway, I did quite a bit of work in Chicago and never actually lucked into good pizza. I'm unlucky that way. Kind of like the times I went to Texas and couldn't find good chili. I plumb struck out. I'm still traumatized by it. Another unlucky event was in Manhattan when I inquired about a good kosher deli and was sent to Ben's near Madison Square Garden. I really had my heart set on chopped liver, but they were out. I had a good meal anyway, but still yearn for the chopped liver.

Questor,
I live in NW Illinois and retired last year. I used to travel to the cities once or twice a month as I was responsible for several facilities in the area. I traveled a lot in my 40 year career and kind of got to despise motels, airlines, and most restaurants. I used to say that when I retired I was going to take a spray can of blaze orange paint, put a circle aound my property and stay inside of it for a year.

Except to go hunting, fishing, etc.

BUT one restaurant I always did enjoy - Tinucci's in South St. Paul/Newport. I never had a bad meal there. I don't know if you're near there, it's nothing fancy but great food and bakery. (No pizza though - that I am aware of)

I spend a lot of time around Hayward, WI. My friend has a resort on the Chippewa Flowage. He gets bar pizzas from Pizza Corner, which I believe are made somewhere in your part of the country. I like their pizza pretty well.

I just got into dutch oven cooking last year. We met old friends from Woodbury, MN in NW Wisconsin and they introduced me to dutch oven lasagna. Now I'm cooking in one. They are really versatile. Lodge Pre-seasoned camp model that you can pile charcoal on the lid and underneath.

Cement Man · « **Reply #28 on:** May 03, 2009, 07:13:19 AM »

Quote from: kinslayer1965 on May 03, 2009, 06:05:21 AM

Being a Native Floridian fish is my specialty. I take chunk pineapple (cement is gonna love this) drain it and put it in a baking dish then slice onions and potatos (keeep the potatos real thin) layer them on top of the pineapple them season the fish as you please then lay the fillets on top. I them pour beringer white zin in till it almost touches the fish and bake for about 30 minutes at 350. Put the fillets on a plate and scoop out the goodies and put on top. I have used this with snapper, grouper, snook, cobia, tile fish, and bass. If you have smaller fillets you have to cut down on the time and slice you stuff a little thinner.

CR - honestly that does sound like a good recipe. My wife and I have fish often and this looks like a great way to do it. We don't have the same fish available here very much, but I am gonna try your recipe. Pineapple is fine on fish and other things - besides pizza.

As my Italian friends would say about pineapple on pizza - "Wotzamottayou?"

Oldshooter · « **Reply #29 on:** May 03, 2009, 08:45:04 AM »

Quote from: kinslayer1965 on May 03, 2009, 05:38:05 AM

Heather,

I like your thinking.

My ex-wife cooked so bad the flies chipped in and bought us a screen door. To this day the words "shake and bake" cause me to bang my head against the wall.

May not be barbeque but one of my favorites is vnison backstrap cut into 1" steaks marinated in soy suace, brown sugar, honey and garlic. I mix up all the marinade ingredients and vacuum seal the steaks in the marinade for 24 hours. About 3 minutes per side on a nice hot grill will do the trick. Marinade also works real well for kabobs with venison chunks, "pineapple" , onions and green peppers.

I hate to admit it because cement will have me baker acted into some program but I use pineapple alot in my cooking.

CR

I read that to my wife and we both had a good laugh! Thanks CR