Cannon at Vicksburg

[brokenpole]

My wife and I have enjoyed this forum and have also enjoyed taking the photos of the guns from the Cairo.  I have been learning so much and come across questions I can't find answers for.

The picture posted below is from a Union gun emplacement where the Navy took guns from the gunboats and put them on a ridge to engage Confederate artillery. 

Now whether this is a naval gun or not I have no idea.  But what are the notches that are placed in the end of the barrel used for?  What purpose to they serve?  All the wife and I can come up with is for use in some kind of lifting or locking mechanism.

Any thoughts?

[cannonmn]

Those are for elevating the gun.  I can't see the profile of the gun you pictured but the smallest gun I know of that had the elevating rack arrangement was an 8-inch Columbiad, tube weight nearly 5 tons.  Since it is on a field carriage, maybe it is something else, someone help me if so.  Whatever the tube is, mounting it on that field carriage is not a normal practice.

[navygunner]

Brokenpole,
    You're correct in your assumptions, they are indeed elevating ratchets. Some of the columbiads and early rodman guns had them. Thanks for pointing out the Navy's role ashore at Vicksburg. If memory serves me correctly the Cairo's guns went to Battery Selfridge  and the Officers and some of the crew served at Battery Benton. The "old warhorse" of the Mississipp Squadron.

NG

[brokenpole]

Brokenpole,
    You're correct in your assumptions, they are indeed elevating ratchets. Some of the columbiads and early rodman guns had them. Thanks for pointing out the Navy's role ashore at Vicksburg. If memory serves me correctly the Cairo's guns went to Battery Selfridge  and the Officers and some of the crew served at Battery Benton. The "old warhorse" of the Mississipp Squadron.

NG

And you are also correct navygunner.  This particular gun is from Battery Selfridge at Vicksburg.  Only the guns there were not from the Cairo.  The Cairo was at the bottom of the Yazoo River at this point (she was sunk in December, 1862 and the seige was June, 1863).

They do say some where what ship the guns were taken from.  I will have to look and find that.

Imagine me, a navy man, not remembering the name Selfridge.  Darned disappointing.

Here are some more pics of the gun.

[navygunner]

Yep!!! The Cairo was resting in the mud of the Yazoo and Selfridge had been her commander at the sinking. He was on a couple other boats starting with C that had been sunk too!! According the the lit from Vicksburg park those are 8inch columbiads taken from one of Farrgutts ships.

NG

[Max Caliber]

Here is a little different view that I happened to have. 8-inch Columbiad, Model 1844

[Cannoneer]

Brokenpole and Max, those are fine photos of an 8-inch Model of 1844 Columbiad mounted on a Federal siege carriage, and I'm with Cannonmn, I've also never seen one of these cannon mounted on this type of carriage before, but live and learn.


I'll place this addendum here, so this post will at least serve some purpose.
8-inch Columbiad, Model of 1844. Nominal length, 119 inches; weight, 9,200 pounds; total production, 315; known survivors, 21. While designated a "columbiad," this model has a chamber and was classified as a seacoast howitzer, firing shell only.
M1844, 8-inch Columbiad located by the Navy Memorial at the National Military Park, Vicksburg, MS.
Manufactured by Fort Pitt Foundry, U.S. registry no. 59, Inspected by Edward Harding, cast in 1846, Weight is 9,140 lbs, metal is iron.
Thank You, Mr. Wayne Stark.

[brokenpole]

I have a book that gives a little more information about the use of naval guns during the seige at Vicksburg. I think I need to go find it.

Mean while...how were these teeth used?  Was there some kind of ratchet device that engaged to elevate the gun or was it all via muscle power?

Of course ya'll realize that it is my wife who wants to know all this stuff.  I have given her the answer but she don't believe me.       OOOOUCH...darn honey...okay...we both want to know.

[Max Caliber]

The first time you visit Vicksburg you will be impressed by how close the Confederate and Union guns were to each other. This was a classic siege with both sides using the biggest guns they could bring to bear.

Here is a pic of some other siege guns which are located near the top of the bluff near the U.S. Navy monument.

[brokenpole]

I point that out to all the people that visit me when I take them through the Military Park.

I do feel that I am lucky to live so near the park.  It is a nice drive.

[seacoastartillery]

     I believe someone will find an authoritative site or book on this subject and will reveal that either 4 or 5 naval cannon of the 9" Dahlgren Shell Gun type were mounted in a land battery and were used by sailors who accompanied them to bombard Confederate positions.  I'm going way out on a limb here, but this is pretty well stuck in my memory and is definitely in the "why the Heck did I not save that info source category?".  It's possible that these could have been used at the siege of Port Hudson and not Vicksburg.

Further research is necessary,

Tracy

[navygunner]

ORN's Volume 25, pgs 56 makes mention of Lt. Cdr Selfridge requesting permission to land 8 in howitzers ashore. Later pg says he suceeded in emplacing one of the 8 inch guns to counter battery a long 42 in his front.

Pg 66 mentions naval guns being landed including (2) 9 inch and another (2) 8 inch guns those latter only needed navy assistance being placed.


I'm sure there are more but i'm satisfied the 8" and 9" where both employed at Vicksburg by the Navy
http://library5.library.cornell.edu/moa/browse.monographs/ofre.html

Geo dailey
gunnersmate USNLP (western waters)
www.usnlp.org

[cannonmn]

ORN's Volume 25, pgs 56 makes mention of Lt. Cdr Selfridge requesting permission to land 8 in howitzers ashore.

The Navy didn't have any 8-inch howitzers that I know of, as a part of their normal ship's armament during the Civil War, so I wonder what he was talking about? Maybe a mistake in the OR's?

[navygunner]

Actually a couple gunboats had some 8 inch howitzers there's a picture of the USS Pawnee with an 8" on a Marselliey (?) sp. carriage

This is in error guys; The picture shows a 24 pounder although the bore looks much larger.

Okay maybe this will settle it. The same picture is at  http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/sh-usn/usnsh-p/pawnee.htm. I've seen this picture listed on other websites call it a 24 pounder but I'll go with this site. Hope it helps.

geo

[seacoastartillery]

      Probably an error, and the Navy's 8" chambered cannon of 63 cwt on the 4 truck carriage could have been used in fixed batteries or siege batteries.  We did a little looking around and found that Battery Selfridge was almost entirely armed with ordinance from the Federal Gunboat Cincinnati which sank just north of Vicksburg and also the 4 gun, 9" Dahlgren Shell Gun Battery was emplaced on land at the Siege of Port Hudson, La, the longest siege in U.S. history. Confederate troops there surrendered only after there was absolutely no possibility of relief upon the surrender of Vicksburg's defenders.  From www.historynet.com we get this:

           
                                                  The Siege of Port Hudson, Louisiana


     "The Navy loaned four 9-inch Dahlgren guns, with full crews, Linder Lt. Cmdr. Edward Terry, to the siege effort. He placed them into position opposite the ‘Priest Cap’ near the position held by the 1st Indiana’s Battery K on May 27. Terry’s men hoped to breech the Confederate earthworks with their 9-inch shells so that the infantrymen in the next assault would have a ready entrance. Besides targeting the Priest Cap, the mammoth DahIgrens targeted the salient at the Port Hudson and Clinton railroad cut in the lines, 1,080 yards away. They also drew a bead on the Jackson Road sally port, 920 yards away."

Four of these 9" Dahlgren shell Guns made a powerful battery.  Mike and I found this beautifully cared for example at Trinity College in Hartford Connecticut.




Regards,

Mike and Tracy
 

[Victor3]

Mean while...how were these teeth used?  Was there some kind of ratchet device that engaged to elevate the gun or was it all via muscle power?

 I think the "teeth" were originally designed to be engaged by a lever (long bar with a square tip on it) through an opening in part of the carriage