25/06 vs 308 to 300 yards for deer,coyotes?

[hans g./UpS]

Is there any significant difference in performance between a bolt action 308[e.g.Savage FP10]vs a bolt action 25/06[Ruger 77] for whitetails and coyotes within 300 yards?[s.n.the Savage with 165gr boattails is capable of sub-minute of angle accuracy] Already have the 308,toying with getting a 25/06.
Thanks.

[Ron T.]

Let’s “talk” the differences in the cartridges since individual rifles can and do vary considerably.  Incidentally, both the Savage and Ruger are fine rifles.  Savage bolt-action rifles have a well-deserved reputation for accuracy.

As you probably know, the .308 Winchester is slightly shorter (a ½ inch) and slightly less powerful than the .30/06 Springfield cartridge.  Be that as it may, the .308 Winchester cartridge  using a 165 grain boat-tail bullet @ 2730 fps with a .475 ballistic coefficient doesn’t quite quality as a “300 yard cartridge”.  This cartridge, bullet/weight/muzzle velocity combination has a point-blank-range of  about 274 yards according to my ballistics program.  This would place the bullet 5.65 inches low at 300 yards.  Of course, the difference between being 3 inches low and being 5.65 inches low is small… and I suppose you could push the envelope and call this cartridge/bullet weight/bullet velocity a “300 yard cartridge”.

I have indicated the 25 yard range/bullet strike because I sight my rifle “in” at either 25 or 50 yards, then check the “group” at 100 yards because the  bullet strikes are so easily seen at 25 or 50 yard ranges with iron sights or a low-powered scope setting.  Oddly enough, most high-velocity hunting rounds, sighted in to be “at” or close to “dead center” at 25 yards are perfectly sighted in at normal hunting ranges.

Here’s the significant “numbers”, at:
25 yards =  + .02 inches
50 yards =  + 1.25 inches
100 yards =  + 2.75 inches
130 yards =  + 3.01 inches (high point in the ballistic curve)
150 yards =  + 2.92 inches
200 yards =  + 1.68 inches
233 yards =  ± 0.00 inches (dead on)
250 yards =  - 1.14 inches
274 yards =  - 3.00 inches (maximum range to quality as “point-blank-range”)
300 yards =  - 5.65 inches


The .25/06 is, of course, a .30/06 cartridge necked down to .257 caliber… and certainly qualifies as a “300 yard rifle”.  With a 100 grain Nosler Partition Bullet (all the bullet you’d need for deer or coyotes) and a muzzle velocity of  3200-3250 fps with a ballistic coefficient of .377, you have a point-blank-range of 311 yards making the .25/06 with a 100 grain bullet a true “300 yard rifle” and an excellent long-range rifle for deer-sized game.  You could go to a 115 or 120 grain bullet, but other than a slightly heavier bullet at a slightly lower muzzle velocity, I don’t see the “gain” since all three bullet weights are Nosler Partition Bullets with the same performance on deer-sized or smaller game… and the 100 grain Partition will get the job done just fine on deer.  You might wish to use a lighter, higher-velocity varmint bullet on the coyotes.

Here’s the significant “numbers” for the 100 grain Nosler Partition Bullet for your .25/06:

25 yards =     - .18 inches
50 yards =   +  .93 inches
100 yards = +2.45 inches
150 yards = +3.00 inches (high point in the ballistic curve)
200 yards = +2.46 inches
250 yards = +0.75 inches
265 yards = ±0.00 inches (dead on)
300 yards = - 2.19 inches
311 yards = - 3.00 inches


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

[PA-Joe]

In your 308, for both deer and coy you can go down from the 165 grain points. 130 grain is good.

[hans g./UpS]

Thing I'm wondering about: Ruger's K-77 25/06 is a 22" barrel,the Savage FP10 308W is a 24"barrel.
Would the 25/06 suffer in a 22"barrel?,do you -really- need a >=24" barrel for -efficient[maximum]- use of the cartridge?

[woodsdweller]

i have an m77 in a 25-06 and have taken everything from mule deer to black bear with a hand loaded 120 gr n. partition. for yotes i hand load a 75 gr. serria with exelent results and no hide damage. the two are like comparing apples and oranges. me take the 25-06 off the rack and dont turn back.

[John Y Cannuck]

The 25-06 is over bore capacity I figure, and that theoretically would mean shorter barrel life. But, unless you do a hell of a lot of shooting, you likely would not have a problem, with a modern steel barrel.
Is amo availability a concern? The 308 of course being the winner here.

If it were my choice, It would be a difficult one, but I lean towards the 25-06, just for the varmint end of it, assuming you hunt deer and varmints at fairly long range.

[Ron T.]

Hans g./UpS....

Yes, I think the .25/06 would "suffer" with a 22" barrel... you can figure on losing an average of about 40 to 60 feet-per-second per inch of a barrel shorter than 26 inches.

Sooooo... you'd lose about 160 fps to 200 fps or possibly even more muzzle velocity if you dropped down from a 26" to a 22" barrel.

As John Y. Cannuck stated in his post, the .25./06 is “over-bore capacity” meaning the cartridge case has more powder in it than can be efficiently burned in the chamber and in the throat of the .257 inch diameter bore of the .25/06 BEFORE the bullet leaves the barrel.  This means that a reloader can work wonders with the slower-burning rifle powders and a longer barrel in which to burn the powder.  Don’t forget that any powder burnt after the bullet leaves the barrel is wasted or, worse yet, only serves to burn out the barrel's throat.

And so, the “secret” to getting the most out of a “hot” round like the .25/06 is to have a longer barrel and custom fit the reloading components to your individual rifle.  These components include the brand of cartridge case, the brand of primer, the brand & type of rifle powder and how much of it plus the brand and style of bullet including the bullet weight and how deep you seat the bullet in the cartridge case.

If you do it “right”… you’ll end up with a “tack-driver” that can roll a song-dog at 400 yards without a lot of trouble... and "nail" a fat buck at 250 yards with "no sweat".

Personally, if I were going to set up a rifle in .25/06, I’d have at LEAST a 26-inch barrel on it to take advantage of the slowest burning powders I could effectively use and the added muzzle velocity the longer barrel would give me.

An additional advantage of the longer barrel is the fact you can have a good gunsmith set the barrel back once you burn the throat out of it and accuracy begins to fall off.  This will add hundreds or even thousands of rounds of barrel life to  your barrel.

You could even allow the barrel to "shrink" down to 24 inches or less.  Something to consider… eh?


Strength & Honor…

Ron T.