Would you fight and die for your gun rights?

[LONGTOM]

Thanks bubba for clearing that up.
I think I know a little more about you now.
In fact I think I know a little more about several of you and who I could depend on if we lived closer together!

Somewhere in these replies I think I read about living to fight another day.
I'm not sure who's reply it was and it really doesn't matter to me.
I will say this - what are you going to live to FIGHT FOR?
There won't be anything left!
Are you going to fight for another cup of soup in the bread line, or maybe a hand out from the government.
You surely won't be fighting for your rights & freedoms.
Remember, those are already gone!

I have already begun the fight.
I am in touch with my representatives and have made it clear where I stand on these issues, and I will continue to let them know.
I am spreading the word to all that will listen.
I have it on the back of my cars & trucks and my bike.
I have always voted and will continue to do so as this is another right made possible by the 2nd amendment along with all the others.
If that doesn't do the trick then when the time comes I will do as my forefathers and stand up against an unjust government.
Will I live or die is in GOD'S hands, but I will know that I did all I could do to defend my fellow citizens and to up hold the honor of those who have gone down this road before me!


LONGTOM

[bubba]

I live in upstate NY one of the most liberal states there is.  I vote every election, but when you vote conservative in NY, you are at this time at least wasting your time. But I still do it.  My state is trying to put more and more regulations on firearms continually.  I am in contact with my representatives on a regular basis at my local, state and national level.  I teach firearm safety in NY in hopes to increase our numbers. I am mandated to teach one class a year. Last year I did 5 and this year have already done three averaging close to 35 per class all volunteer time.  I am a lifer in the NRA, but I am thunking that has no where near the clout it used to. I am a new member of the Patriot Guard Riders who attend funerals of fallen military personell and keep unwanted people away from the grieving family.  Two years from this December I can retire from a very good state job and I plan to.  My first thing I plan to do is move out of NY and never look back.  I am not sure how much  insight into me you have, but I can tell you if you needed help, I would be there.  Anyway I dont think there is anymore I can say other than keep up the good fight and lets not let it get to the point they will be knocking on our doors. 

[kitchawan kid]

I to am retired from the state and hope to move out of N.Y.,have to find the right state that also does'nt tax the pension.

[DalesCarpentry]

If they were to pass a law that outlawed your guns and they were coming to get them. Would you fight and die for your gun rights? With this thing they are trying to pass it would not surprise me if it comes down to that now. Dale

Seems to be allot of beating around the bush for some,but reread the question.Its a simple yes or no for me,this I'm not sure sh-- is the easy way out,and could be thats the problem,too many have had it too easy for too long.
We are talking about the 2nd amendment to the constitution of the United States Of America.Without the rights of the 2nd amendment,none of the others are safe.
Some have said things about making statements on the net,and I rarely do and am guarded in what I post.But make no mistake,I will defend the 2nd amendment to my death if need be,not talk or big words as some have stated but fact. For you that are undecided,please please read history and everything you can find on the constitution and you may find you will change your thinking.
As to those who feel the same as I do,it will be an honor to stand beside you and defend our great constitution of the greatest country the world has ever seen.

You know I have given this much thought over the last couple days since I first started this thread. I am a true American through and through. Many of you have made great points here. There is more at stake here than just our 2nd admendment rights. If they manage to disarm our people then they can do anything they like to us. There would be no way to stop them then. With much thought I have made up my mind and I would defend our 2nd anmendment rights to my death. Dale

[45-70.gov]

Thanks bubba for clearing that up.
I think I know a little more about you now.
In fact I think I know a little more about several of you and who I could depend on if we lived closer together!

Somewhere in these replies I think I read about living to fight another day.
I'm not sure who's reply it was and it really doesn't matter to me.
I will say this - what are you going to live to FIGHT FOR?
There won't be anything left!
Are you going to fight for another cup of soup in the bread line, or maybe a hand out from the government.
You surely won't be fighting for your rights & freedoms.
Remember, those are already gone!

I have already begun the fight.
I am in touch with my representatives and have made it clear where I stand on these issues, and I will continue to let them know.
I am spreading the word to all that will listen.
I have it on the back of my cars & trucks and my bike.
I have always voted and will continue to do so as this is another right made possible by the 2nd amendment along with all the others.
If that doesn't do the trick then when the time comes I will do as my forefathers and stand up against an unjust government.
Will I live or die is in GOD'S hands, but I will know that I did all I could do to defend my fellow citizens and to up hold the honor of those who have gone down this road before me!


LONGTOM

tom
i  was  one that said i would live to fight another day
the question was  would  you  die....not would you risk your life
no  i would  not  fight and  die  by  choise
but i  respect  any one that would  but  hope  they choose  to fight with me  later  too

those  that  do stand their ground  and  die  will  not be in  vein
as  that  will  insure  those  that chose to fight another day
will  think  of  you when  they pull  the trigger on  their sniper/favorite deer rifle

sure  big  brother  is reading  this  post
maybe  it will  make him  move  a little slower and give  us time to vote them out
maybe  it will make us  have  more resolve  to vote them  out and end  things peaceful


the people at WACO  are  still dead  as  is randy weavers wife and son
why as no one  lived  to fight another day  and taken  out  those  shooters
the idiot tim mcveiy  just killed  innocent people   not  the actual shooters

[teamnelson]

It'll be a marathon, not a sprint.

[Graybeard]

NRA called me early this afternoon..I was eager to help. I was 5th in line to give them my donation. No time to get cheap now,  let's stick together and do it ! Supporting our NRA is probably the best place to start.

Ironglow is right. Politics are important here, and our lobby is the NRA.

I wish I could believe that but I do not and cannot. The NRA is NOT our friend and to think so is to throw money away for a lost cause. In the end the NRA is nothing but a compromising give up anything it takes outfit with no spine no backbone for the tough fight. They are all about raking in money to support the huge salaries of their employees not about gun rights. Oh they'll do just enough to make you "think" they are on our side so the money keeps flowing but in the end they always cave in and tell Congress they and by extension we can live with whatever new gun law is to be passed.

Until LaPierre is fired the NRA ain't getting anymore of my money.

[MGMorden]

.

[DalesCarpentry]

.

What does that mean? You may have just made the shortest post ever on GBO. I know TM7 holds the longest post.  Dale

[LONGTOM]

By all means 45-70, if given the chance I would stand by you and fight another day!
I would hope that others would do the same for you and me.
There is more power in mass than alone.

The time has come to stand as one and tell OUR government that they are WRONG!
We are not a people to be TRIFFLED WITH.
We WILL VOTE our hearts.
We WILL CONTROLL OUR OWN LIVES.

This is no different than what so many others have fought and died for over the years.
Everyone take a stand sometime in their life and I believe that our rights as a free country under the CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA and its BILL OF RIGHTS is a stand worth fighting for.

I do hope we can change the way this country is headed before it is to late.
I just can't beleave that the people are so naive that they can't see what the government is trying to do to them.


LONGTOM

[nw_hunter]

NRA called me early this afternoon..I was eager to help. I was 5th in line to give them my donation. No time to get cheap now,  let's stick together and do it ! Supporting our NRA is probably the best place to start.

Ironglow is right. Politics are important here, and our lobby is the NRA.

I wish I could believe that but I do not and cannot. The NRA is NOT our friend and to think so is to throw money away for a lost cause. In the end the NRA is nothing but a compromising give up anything it takes outfit with no spine no backbone for the tough fight. They are all about raking in money to support the huge salaries of their employees not about gun rights. Oh they'll do just enough to make you "think" they are on our side so the money keeps flowing but in the end they always cave in and tell Congress they and by extension we can live with whatever new gun law is to be passed.

Until LaPierre is fired the NRA ain't getting anymore of my money.

I agree GB!....................I wish more people would get behind the GOA, and help a true friend of the gun owner.

The REAL NRA

I can think of a multitude of reasons not to join the NRA. One among the top reasons, is that they are not a '2nd Amendment Rights' organization. The NRA has been behind most of the gun control legislation.

Wow, that's incredible and hard to believe you say. Surely that man must be nuts. Well, if you enjoy firearms history like I do, please do some reading.

The NRA has 'covertly' worked in the past to take away 2nd Amendment Rights. That's a cold hard fact.

The NRA helped craft the 1934 NFA act, the 1968 Gun Control Act just to name a few. These laws help restrict the 2nd Amendment.

The NRA tried unsuccessfully to scuttle a rare 2nd Amendment victory -- U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit ruled that D.C.’s gun ban violates the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.
Quote:
The attorneys involved in litigating the case have stated that the NRA acted as an obstruction. Attorney Alan Gura has commented on the NRA's "sham litigation" to have Parker consolidated with NRA controlled litigation, and stated that "the NRA was adamant about not wanting the Supreme Court to hear the case".[6] Cato Institute senior fellow Robert Levy, co-counsel to the Parker plaintiffs, has stated that the Parker plaintiffs "faced repeated attempts by the NRA to derail the litigation."[7]


What kind of gun right organization actively undermines a case so important to gun ownership nationwide?
Quote:
"The National Rifle Association has been in support of workable, enforceable gun control legislation since its very inception in 1871."

—NRA Executive Vice President Franklin L. Orth
NRA's American Rifleman Magazine, March 1968, P. 22
Quote:
"The NRA supported The National Firearms Act of 1934 which taxes and requires registration of such firearms as machine guns, sawed-off rifles and sawed-off shotguns. ... NRA support of Federal gun legislation did not stop with the earlier Dodd bills. It currently backs several Senate and House bills which, through amendment, would put new teeth into the National and Federal Firearms Acts." —American Rifleman, March 1968, P. 22

Now in 2007, the NRA has joined forces with the very people who would love to disarm American's -- the Brady Campaign. Who helped craft H.R. 2640? Why Rep. Carolyn McCarthy (D-NY) and FORMER NRA BOARD MEMBER Rep. John Dingell (D-MI).

The NRA currently has on its board of directors, Joaquin Jackson, who was caught on video stating the mere civilians shouldn't be able to own magazines that hold more than 5 rounds.

And just this past weekend on CNN Glen Beck show, the chief lobbyist for the NRA Chris Cox publicly stated that the NRA has never supported fully automatic firearms. <see below>

Why would the NRA keep surrendering on every piece of legislation that comes down the pike? Perhaps they forgot about the “shall not be abridged" part of the Amendment and think it says 'compromised away'.

-------------
The NRA's Role In Creation of the 1934 National Firearms Act

Congressional hearings over the National Firearms Act of 1934 (H.R.9066) took place April 16 & 18 and May 14, 15, & 16 of 1934. Then-NRA President Karl T. Frederick testified on behalf of the National Rifle Association (NRA).

NFA'34 is the foundation for all federal gun control and has been used in courts to justify many state gun controls -- and gun control is clearly about disarmament.

Example of NRA President's Testimony:
Quote:
MR. FREDERICK: ... "I have never believed in the general practice of carrying weapons. I seldom carry one. ... I do not believe in the general promiscuous toting of guns. I think it should be sharply restricted and only under licenses"


This should be required reading by all gun owners. It will help you understand the genesis of all the nations restrictions on firearms occurred -- the NRA.


http://www.keepandbeararms.com/NRA/NFA.asp

----------

1968 Gun Control Act and the NRA

Plus to be honest, the only reason there was the a 1968 Gun Control Act is because the NRA supported its creation. Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers Institute (SAAMI) actually drafted the 1968 bill and the NRA endorsed it.
Quote:
1968 General Franklin Orth, Executive Vice President of NRA, testifies before Congress in favor of the Gun Control Act (GCA'68) that "[NRA does] not think that any sane American, who calls himself an American, can object to placing into this bill the instrument which killed the president of the United States," /2/ (a ban on the mail-order sale of firearms). His statement of NRA support generates heated opposition from the (presumably insane) portion of the NRA membership, creating split between "sportsmen" and "hardliners."

2007: NRA's current position on machine gun ownership - your screwed.

Here is the transcript of NRA's spokesman Chris Cox on the CNN Glen Beck Show (October 5, 2007) showing stating:

Quote:
BECK: Chris, are you for fully automatic machine guns?

COX: We`ve never advocated fully automatic machine guns and Paul knows it. But, again, Glenn, this is very basic. It`s --

Who is Chris Cox?

Chris Cox is the 'Executive Director', the NRA Institute for Legislative Action , the political and lobbying arm of the National Rifle Association

What is interesting is that federal law allows for private ownership of machine guns for a qualified individual. However in 2007, the NRA (a supposed 2nd Amendment Rights organization) feels that you should not have that right. The NRA supported the creation of the 1934 NFA Act which put the restrictions on machine guns, short barrel rifles, short barrel shotguns in the first place.

[Dee]

Common nw_hunter, enough with the facts already. Lets stay with the propaganda where everyone is "comfortable". If we don't support the NRA, who's gonna send us all that junk mail trying to sell us "credit cards, insurance, chances to win stuff, and we need your EXTRA DONATIONS? Who's gonna pay for those expensive hunting trips the editors and staff take so they can come back and write articles for the magazine? Who's gonna pay for those tuxedos they wear into those expensive dinners and banquets that SOMEBODY  , is paying for? Anyone ever wonder who puts on those shindigs?
And most of all nw_hunter. Who is gonna peddle the latest and greatest new firearm as the ultimate, you have to have it, if we don't send them our bucks?
The Second Amendment is a NO COMPROMISE AMENDMENT, that the NRA is constantly "compromising with Washington over it".
They are a political machine that has long since lost it's direction. No one "EVER" seems to wonder where all that money comes from to hold those BLACK TIE events, or those EXOCTIC HUNTING TRIPS, they go on. Fighting for my 2nd Amendment rights does not require a tuxedo, or a hunting trip to Africa. The members are paying for these LAVISH EVENTS. The question is WHY?

[LONGTOM]

If I had not joined the NRA as a life member back in the early 70s at a very reduced rate I might add I probably would not be a member now.
They have gotten far away from what they were formed to be.

It is true that they waste way to much of your $s on junk mail and fancy affairs.
I say your $s because I haven't sent them any money in a very long time.
Instead I support other groups that really seem to have our gun rights at heart.

They have compromised away to much in the - give them a little now and they will leave us alone - deals they have engaged in recent years.
I almost fell for that rational back in the 80s as I was beginning to think they were taking to hard of a line against the antis but then I started to realize that they really was giving up to many of our gun rights all along.
I also realized that the antis would never give up until they had taken away all of our gun rights and that is when I made up my mind to never give an inch on my 2nd amendment rights.

My GRANDFATHER once said "A WISE MAN LEARNS FROM HIS MISTAKES BUT A FOOL FOLLOWS WITHOUT QUESTION".


LONGTOM
 

[MGMorden]

.

What does that mean? You may have just made the shortest post ever on GBO. I know TM7 holds the longest post.  Dale

The forums don't allow a post to be deleted, so I edited my post to just a period .  I had replied directly to a post when I came across it without thinking, but it was on the first page and when my post went through I realized that the topic had already reached 5 pages, so I didn't figure that I really needed to respond to a specific comment that far forward in the thread .

[Oldshooter]

Short and prolly bitter.

There is a lot of truth to the post here that condemn the NRA. I read the transcript(mostly) I am sure that the NRA has drifted to areas originally not intended. What I  want to say is how dare you! but I can not do so. Like the Republican party, they have been led astray, My first inkling was the arm twisting harassing calls and propaganda I started getting in the mail. This thread is not where I started questioning their operation. In a recent thread I asked if not the NRA then Who? I ask that still.

Now all that being said, Where would gun rights be had it not been for the NRA as misguided as they seem to be now! Don'T Ideologue me to death here. I don't wanna see " well if it had not been for the NRA the gun laws of 1934 would not have been passed" cause had it not been for them the gun laws of 1934 may have been worse, and the transcript shows that also!

So don't just bash( not productive) and find fault, show some alternatives cause we are in a nine line bind here Pards! If we don't have an organized legal fight we will surely lose this struggle, cause the opposition is well organised!

Well when I started I thought it was gonna be short!   

[splicer]

 What about the SAF? Is it worth giving money to.I have seen a few videos of their spokesmen and he seems like he wont give in.

[v-man]

I have been silently watching this thread. I have prepared in many ways to defend my home and family. But I have recently thought long and hard about what that could mean. If the time comes that we actually have to make the choice to give up our guns or fight, life as we know it will be very difficult and unpleasant and regardless of which side wins or loses the short term and long term consequences for many will be dire. I do not want to die, yet. But I do know that some will have to set aside wants and fears if we are to retain or restore liberty. When I consider those who endured much to leave home, family and familiarity to settle here and those later who undured much to gain and then defend our freedom, here and abroad, I am both humbled and terrified to realize that the fight will never end. Did they do it for me? No, they did it for those that will follow me for there will always be evil men seeking power at the expense of others. And thus today we are once again facing the threat of tyranny. Does the responsibility to risk all for the cause for freedom end with those who went before me? No, it must not, for my little Grandson needs someone to withstand the next assault in order for him to experience the liberties that were defended and preserved for me. God, give me wisdom, integrity and courage. Sometimes doing the right thing can be very costly.
I hope I will answer the call.

[Oldshooter]

Excellent post V-man. I was physically moved by that post!

[Singleshotsam]

Yes.

I say yes because I now once the floodgates open after they succeed in robbing me of my right to protect my home and family, that it won't be long until they come for my right to free press, freedom of assembly, and yes my freedom of religion.

I'd like to see the results of this poll...

Would you die for your right to worship Jesus?

I know I would... and in order to preserve my son and unborn daughters rights to do the same I will gladly become a corpse.   Sounds harsh I know, but you have to look at the big picture.  My spirit would do better knowing that I died for a cause that will allow my children live free and worship Jesus in public, not secretly in a dusty celler by the light of a single flickering light bulb...

So when they come for my guns.  My wife and kids will be gone, and my last words on earth will be... "God forgive me for the sins I have committed... and for those I am about to committ..."

[lgm270]

Saw this thread and reflected on the current status of this country...an outright Communist in control of the government.

Fighting the government has gone from a vague abstraction to a real possibility, with the election of a Communist, the government circulating memoranda to police identifying conservative political opinions as grounds for police surveillance, the ongoing foreign invasion from  Mexico and the control of so many major American institutions by aliens who hate us.  

At one level I think it would be important to fight. At another level, I say "What's the point."  I didn't abandon my country. My country has abandoned me.   Most people are sheep.  I'm not.  So do I resist and get myself killed?  And maybe my family too?  That's the main issue: Do I put family in harm's way?

I don't know. The problem is that our government is setting up a  Marxist style police state and that (thanks to the GOP) torture is now legal.   Do I want to be shot or tortured?   Torture is legal in Israel and very liberally used there.  Who is the chief of staff of Presidnet Obongo?  Well a former Israeli military officer, Rham Emmanual.  This man sitting at the PResident's right hand is a foreign national whose primary loaylty is to a racially based, aparthied state that tortures people.  Was being Chief of Staff for the President really one of those "jobs that Americans won't do"  so that the position had to be filled by a foreign national loyal to another country?  

I've read a great deal about the fate of unarmed civilians in Marxist police states: torture, indefinite imprisonment, labor in gulags...  

You have to weigh the options.  A quick merciful death in a gun fight or a long, lingering death by  torturers and in forced labor camps?  (Will we also import Jewish torturers from Israel because torturing people is a job Americans won't do?)

Will there be a mass resistance to the coming Marxist nightmare?   That's a tough one.  The Tea Parties are very encouraging.  The widespread  US gun possession is also encouraging.  Both political parties are scared to death of the tea party movement.  Neither controls it...yet.   Thus far, America is the only fully armed country to be taken over by communist leadership.  To  my knowledge that has not happened any where else. Neither pre-communist Russia nor China had widespread civilian gun ownership, nor did Cuba, North Korea or any other communist country.    This means there are alot of unknowns involved in the  Communist take over of the USA that did not exist in the communist take over of  other countries.  It may not come down to us resisting as isolated individuals but as  part of a larger grass roots popular resistance.  Who knows.  I think alot will depend on how fast the American people come out of the ether and realize that Obongo and his henchmen are very dangerous people.    

In the last few months I've seen a fear in people that I've never seen before, even during the height  of the cold war.   These are not political types of people like me, but people who kept their mouth shut because they didn't want to rock the boat.  Now the boat is sinking with them in it.  They've lost all the things they kept their mouths shut to protect.  Their pensions. Their 401K's.  The equity in their homes.   People who used to call me a nut and a paranoid are now calling to ask what kind of gun to buy while they still can and what do I think is going to happen.  I know people with money who want to leave the country.  They just don't know where to go.  ( I suggested Russia because they no longer have communism.)  The point is there is a great groundswell of change on the horizon.  People are scared to death, but don't know where to turn.  

So, would I fight to keep my guns?  Probably not.  What's the point?  My country has already been invaded, defeated and occupied.  Where I live in Southern California, I can't even display an American flag in most parts of town without the threat of physical violence from  Mexicans  who have no right to be here.   People who live in what is still left of America have no idea what it's like to live under an occupation government like we have in California.  California is already a political subdivision of Mexico.  Who do I shoot to fix that?


  

[ironglow]

   Sure can't argue with most of what lgm270 says..One thing we must all consider..If we give up our arms at the start, then they are gone. A dog that decides to fight after his teeth are pulled, is a feeble opponent.

[bubba]

our teeth are already being pulled. Try buying reloading components anywhere and the next will be loaded ammo.  It will be tough to defend yourself or anyone else if you cant load the gun.  As I stated that is the first step and it is already happening.  I personally think they will not go after guns directly for a while because ammo is already being controlled. Next will be fuel. hard to drive the car with no gas and keep warm with no heating oil.  The signs are already there.  I understabd a run on supplies when the annointed one got elected.  However that was moinths ago. You would think that the shelves could be resupplied by now.  What a great way to keep people working making reloading supplies ie primers and bullets.  I personally have a very nice supply, but not an endless supply.  It is time now to either put up or shut up as I see it.  Now whats the plan

[Oldshooter]

When it comes down to the bitter truth our teeth are already pulled cause we would never match the firepower that we would face, very few full automatic weapons, virtually no armor, no air cover, no anti-aircraft weapons, single shots and semi autos would be hard pressed to stave off what would come down the road. I Guess if you have the heart and the intestinal fortitude you can over come some obstacles! or you can give up and live to see the real disaster!

[slim rem 7]

 there is no organised plan.. whos fault is that.. we slept it,an still are.. one at a time we are no big deal.. thats just some radical twhos death don t even make the papers.. gun owners had -have thier opportunity ..we snoozed right thru it.. me as i get older an less
e
 effective effective im giving my guns to those sons etc that might use them better than i..
  me!! won t be long an i ll live between pain killers an such..
 i had hoped to be part of something worthy of our forefathers but
saw no real tendacy on the part of gun owners to do more than make claims of ,,my favorite[they pry my cold dead fingers loose from my gun]..sounds pretty huh .. don t amount to a hill o beans..
 sorry fellas no offence ,im one of the gun owners with the ability to resist total government ,,but not singly .. as a group..gurrilla style..
i see no willingness for a winning fight should it become necessary to preserve individual freedom..  gun ownership really was in the constitution  to preserve that.. .

[Graybeard]

I am convinced that most still don't get it, still don't see the big picture of what is coming and coming VERY FAST these days. I don't pretend to fully understand it either but I do think I have a better grasp than many here who it seems still have their head in the sand and will not or cannot understand the true situation we are facing.

I am unclear on a few points such as precisely who is behind what is happening. It does on the surface seem to be muslims I must admit but then again maybe only some muslims and it almost appears that as TM7 has been saying for some time that some Jews too are involved but maybe only a smaller group of them which he is calling zionists not all of the religious jews. Dunno to me it seems it's just big money interests period and I'm not sure that this group has a religion but rather that they are using religion as a wedge between everyone who is not them.

Just who this THEM is really is important to know and understand as you can't fight the enemy if you don't know who the enemy is and I have to admit that to me it is not yet clear just who this enemy really is. For now I'll just call them BIG MONEY or the SUPER RICH and label them with the title of a CABAL. Some call them the illuminate and that too seems to fit. The Bildenbergers are deeply involved and that is just one of a great many Jewish names I see involved in this. I am extremely reluctant to do as I feel TM7 does and lay the blame at the feet of Jews or perhaps I should say religious Jews or those who are truly the descendents of Israel. Perhaps tho it a smaller offshoot of this tribe combined with other super rich to include the muslim super rich heirarcy plus other American and European super rich folks.

Just how large is this group? That's a truly difficult question to answer for sure. I'd guess tho that 10,000 or at most double that would cover at least the head of this snake. They do have a lot of underlings who do their bidding as the super rich and powerful always have had. That group is far larger but ya know in all honesty world wide even those underlings likely don't exceed a million in number.

But Controlled by those underlings is a far larger army of ground troops who will do the actual fighting when the time comes. In that group just here in the US since most of us are Americans we have a fast growing and dangerous clan of operatives. They consist of some military but not in my opinion the majority of military at all. I think those in charge are coming to realize most military likely will not support them so they are working to get young folks who will be loyal to them and not to our country into the military and they are also trying to kill off or wound those who are not with them.

This group consists also of most of the federal police troops and an every growing number of state and local police troops being trained in military tactics and being armed with military weaponry. Call them by their alphabet names if you like and you'll see the likes of DHS, FBI, CIA, FEMA, DEA and far more. These are the soldiers that will take the battle to the streets of America in the not so distant future and in fact already are in the early stages of just that.

Now obama is merely a pawn being used by the cabal who are really in charge. Yeah I kinda think he might have a god complex and might tend to over step his assigned role as he seems to be falling for his own propaganda and to believe he really is far more than he in fact is and that his role is far more important than it really is to those in the cabal who are in charge. He is to my mind without a doubt a muslim and I think he really wants to help spread islam into the US to help his muslim brothers and so long as it is to their benefit the cabal will allow him to do just that but when and if the time comes he no longer serves their end goals they will toss him aside like a piece of trash.

Part of the grand scheme as I see it is to spread islam world wide and to allow muslims to become the majority in all places where voting is allowed so as to remove from office any who are not friendly to the cause yes folks like Ron Paul for one.

There is another side issue going on which the cabal is also using in their strategy however and that is the ever growing latino influx from Mexico mostly. That is why the folks in charge are pushing to let more in and to give them citizenship in masse. The goal is to take power away from us typical WASP folks who for all of the history of this nation have been the core strength of the nation. So they push blacks, latinos and muslims to rise up and try to take power merely to unseat white anglo saxon protestants from power and to bring on the chaos they must have to fully implement their true long term goals.

obama is working at a feverish pace to reduce the size and power of the military to a smaller group who will remain loyal not to the  country or the Constitution but to those who are currently in power. He is working to implement his civilian force he claims will be equal to and as well armed as the military. They will have a two fold mission. First is to make sure the military who are not loyal to those in power can't rise up to stop what is coming and second to serve as the core fighting force backed by the alphabet agencies to actually move in and implement the grand plan.

So what is the grand plan? Now that I am pretty sure I do have a handle on.

As I see it the grand plan it is a really bad one for all but those in the cabal. They want to reduce the population of earth by something like 85% to 90%. That requires the killing off of billions not millions of people. They want ultimately to have only the cabal members and their families and enough servants to take care of their wants and needs. Look back in history to the fuedal days when you had the kings and their knights and serfs and such and enough folks in the outlying areas to raise the crops and animals to feed them and they took all but a bare susistance living from those folks for the ones at the top. That's kinda what the goal is again only on a more modern basis.

To that end the cabal now has bought and paid for:

1. Politicians
2. The News Media
3. Drug companies

Now that they own the media they can feed us whatever information they want us to hear and keep from us what they do not want us to hear. They can use the drug companies to develop ever more virulent strands of diseases and new ones to kill off as many folks as possible. This would include such things as aids, avian flu, swine flu, and who knows what all else they are and have already cooked up. T

They are lacing commonly used drugs needed by much of the population with mind altering chemicals and things to reduce the fertility rate especially among WASPs world wide. Even now that rate is below what is able to sustain a population long term and some thing the rate is already so low the populations will cease to exist in less than 50 years. The latinos and muslims are about the only groups at present still growing in the US and Europe. They are starting kids out on drugs both the illegal ones and those pychotropic ones used to control behavior before they even start school. They are working hand in hand with the suppliers of illegal drugs why else do you think the war on drugs has resulted only in more not less illegal drug use?

The time is drawing very very near when some event will trigger the end game. The end game of course will begin with the declaration of martial law. They already have on the books the laws needed to make this happen based on most any pretext the currently sitting president wishes thanks to our buddy GWB. He too was in the cabal's pocket as was his dad and the Klinton klown as is the obamination.

They have alread laid the ground work for this well. Someone is buying up ammo and loading components at a pace faster than the manufacturers can produce them. Who? I hope our side is getting enough but I fear it's really NOT us that's buying. It might be government agents or it might be muslim/latino agents with help from the cabal and is likely a combination of all those. They want and need a war here in the US to complete the destabilization of the country and the end of the US Constitution.

They have FEMA concentration camps already in place with tens of millions of body bags and elcheapo coffins and have identified mass grave sites in all states where huge holes will be dug to push the bodies into and cover them up by the thousands and tens of thousands at a time. Why/how do you think all those folks are gonna die? Kinda like in the Nazi concentration camps really you'll be killed by those in charge of the camps that is after all the master plan to kill billions.

First will come a declaration of marital law. They will be then have obama's civilian force in place and any of the military not already in line and loyal to the cabal will be engaged in war overseas where they will be left to their own devices to die when the ammo and supplies run out. Those that are loyal will be here and along with the alphabet agencies, and civilian force and local police agencies will begin rounding up folks and sending them to the camps.

Oh I don't even think they'll bother coming for the guns really. By then they'll figure most of the ammo will be gone and so the guns of less importance. When resistance to the round up is encountered they'll just wipe it out with whatever level of force is needed after all the goal is to eliminate 85% to 90% of the population anyway by any means necessary. Most will go peacefully as the media will assure us its for our own benefit and protection. After all the supplies to the stores will have stopped so no one can go buy food or water or gas for the generators or cars. Most will go willingly as they will be hungry and cold and thirsty and happy to be promised safety and food and shelter tho all that will await them is death.

So you decide what you wanna do. Will you go willingly to the camps when the time comes of course giving up any guns and ammo you might still have as of course they can't have guns in the camps it's for our own safety ya understand. Or will you say hell no I won't go and stand and fight? Of course either way you'll likely die as will your family. But would you rather die gracefully like a man fighting for your GOD given rights or like the Jews did in the concentration camps in Germany?

That really will be the ONLY TWO OPTIONS you'll hav when the time comes. Oh sure some of the younger and healthier ones can run to the hills and try to stay alive there on their own and some of those will of course make it and survive there. They will be the core of the new resistance which one day will regain power from the cabal.

People just naturally want freedom but only when it is taken from them and they are forced into slave situation for generations will they stand and fight to the death for it. Some will always fight for it but the question is are there enough who will now to avoid what I've laid out above?

Believe it or not folks it's all coming to a town near you and it will happen before the next presidential election in 2012 and might before the mid term election in 2010. If ya don't get on board and begin working within the system now to stop it then what I have laid out is what you'll get to experience first hand. Whatcha gonna do when it finally hits home to you?

My first long post on this early in the thread got lost when I failed to copy it before hitting POST and then failed to notice someone else had posted and so it went to cyberspace. I have copied this one just in case.

[Hodr]

In the middle 1960s this question came up.  My answer then and now is that I support the constitution of the United States of America with out any qualifications.  I subsequently lifted my right hand and underwent a name change.  After a few years I changed my name back again.  I will never forget though when my name was;

Howard, Sgt. Ranger
Regular Army

[slim rem 7]

i also believe we are dealing with an enemy with no face..
 i think the far right may know who they are .. heck they might even be part of them.. i do believe big money that wants to translate that into big ,huge power is at the head of it..only thing in the way is committed resistence from somebody who could resist.. they working to make those people, outlaws of the state as we speak. jmo slim..

[DDZ]

I pray to God that it dosn't play out like this, but if it comes to fighten for what I believe in and for my freedom,  I'm going to fight. If I die doing it, then so be it. In the end it will be as God wants it.  

[DalesCarpentry]

GB you sure said a mouthfull there for sure. I have to say you have it well thought out and much of it makes sense. Boy I hate when I take the time to write a long post only to have it get lost. I feel your pain there for sure. Dale

[DDZ]

I don't think I'm going to sleep to well tonight after reading that.