Author Topic: Flying Target Thrower for Senior Design (Read 1351 times)

Matt3357 · « **on:** May 03, 2009, 01:24:27 PM »

Hey everyone, my girlfriend and I are Mechanical engineering students and we have to do a senior design project that we engineer and implement for a panel of teachers before we get our degree. Since we are both into hunting and shooting we decided it was only natural to come up with something along those lines.

We did some brainstorming today and decided to do a target system for pistols. What we came up with is a system that will toss a clay pigeon straight up in the air about 5 feet at the touch of a foot pedal allowing for a moving target to hone your pistol skills. We thought we would test the waters on here with our idea to see if there is even a niche in the market for such a thing.

Thanks,
Matt

Mikey · « **Reply #1 on:** May 03, 2009, 01:43:40 PM »

Sounds interesting. My only concern is about the act of shooting a pistol at a airborne target. Do you have any safety guidelines built into your plan??? Would you require shot cartridges rather than solid slugs to be used?

Also, how many of the teachers on that panel would be shooters/hunters and of those who are not can you trust they would remain objective about the focus and success of your plan or would a anti-gun stance possibly render their position subjective and consequently, invalid??

This project sounds like it would be a neat thing to have, even market and sell. However, is it of any pertinence to your general field of study or relevant to special courses???

When you said 'senior design project' I was hoping you might be trying to re-design some of us graybeards (seniors) so we could shoot better, or at least not dribble as much..... just a thought...

Savage · « **Reply #2 on:** May 04, 2009, 02:36:39 AM »

Any system that provides us with something challenging to shoot at is of interest. Like Mikey, I think the safety concerns of shooting at aerial targets with a solid projectile would be great. Very few ranges/areas have an impact zone that would safely accommodate this. Some sort of low mass projectile that would shed velocity quickly and come to ground in a safe distance could be used. Perhaps something like the Speer primer powered plastic projectiles. (Maybe even wax projectiles?)
Savage

Matt3357 · « **Reply #3 on:** May 04, 2009, 03:11:42 AM »

We came up with the idea from the archers that shoot the target disks thrown in the air, and from sharp shooters like Anne Oakley that shoot coins out of the air. One of the main features of the system would be the ability to adjust the throw height to accommodate the burm or other bullet stopping system you have. If it was powerful enough it could be used as a mini clay pigeon thrower, especially to get people started that might be intimidated by pigeons thrown way out there. I would really like to keep it simple by being able to use standard ammunition and safe at the same time. This is all in its infancy, and we have almost a year before the design class starts. I can understand about the safety issue and another thing I have thought of is if you are not very good at hitting the pigeon, you will burn through a lotttt of ammo. But if you could hit a flying clay pigeon with a pistol at 25 yards I think you could hit anything. Any other ideas? (change of direction like side ways?, a different system that would be more fun right out of the box without a bunch of rounds of practice before you even hit one?, as I said I really want to keep this usable with standard ammo, would like to definitely have a moving target, designed for clay pigeons because of price and availability, no idea is too crazy!

Thanks,
Matt

Matt3357 · « **Reply #4 on:** May 04, 2009, 03:22:18 AM »

Oh and about the bias of our teachers, they are required to be unbiased towards the idea and grade us on the engineering that went into the design and construction of it.

Our field of study is mechanical engineering and I have an electrical engineering minor. This project would involve immense amounts of mechanical engineering with all of the drive system to power the throwing wheels, the feed system, the strength of the armor for when you miss, materials engineering to find a wheel material that will grip the pigeon, but not shatter it, electrical engineering for the independent DC motors and controls and the foot pedal, linear actuator, and sensing eye to tell you when the feed is empty.

I think I answered everyone's questions.

Thanks,
Matt

Hodr · « **Reply #5 on:** May 04, 2009, 07:34:28 AM »

Find an old time shooting gallery, video tape the most ardently used targets to get an idea of shooter prefrence. Set up target displays in your range to move randomly and constantly. Use light receptive targets. Find the an array of the bullet sized laser bore sighters and place them in shooters firearms. This should solve the problem of firing too high or blowing apart your target presentaion system. It would include letting the shooter develop muscle memory of his weapon also drawing from holster. You would have to include electrical, mechanical, computer, construction, and laser acquisition in your dissertation. Lastly you build this no live bullet firing/practice range, put me down for an hour a week at $25 an hour for as long as I can still hold a gun. This ought to impress your teachers. Patent your system. Make a lot of money. That is the real pass/fail in our society. Don't beleive me, ask Bill Gates.

blindhari

S.B. · « **Reply #6 on:** May 05, 2009, 07:42:58 AM »

How many of your teachers have the room necisary to use something like this? Remember, you need the distance the bullet can and will travel, if missed? You didn't mention caliber limitations? .22LRs can go up to one mile.
Steve

Matt3357 · « **Reply #7 on:** May 05, 2009, 09:21:20 AM »

There would be no caliber limitation. There would be a requirement of a large enough burm behind the thrower to stop any sized bullet. For the presentation we wouldn't actually shoot at the targets, just demonstrate that it works, not how well we can shoot. Remember in this design, the clay pigeon throw height could be adjusted to whatever height your backstop could safely stop. One thing that I wonder is how well a pigeon would break when hit with a pistol round. I guess I'll just have to find out this weekend.

Matt

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #8 on:** May 05, 2009, 11:02:45 AM »

What about a self reloading texas star type target holder?
have 5 arms that hold birds and will allow the shooter to shoot them as the arms revolve and as birds are hit will reload them as they hit the bottom of the swing. And not break the birds as the arm heads back up.
practicing with a Texas star you only get to shoot at it 5 to 7 times and then have to go out and reload the steel plates. if you have one that will self reload it will cut down on wait time for the range to clear inbetween cease fires.

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #9 on:** May 05, 2009, 11:05:06 AM »

There are lots of can popper ideas aout there that when hit will toss an empty soda can in the air 5 to 10 feet. the cool thing would be to make one that will reset and reload with either a pull of a chain or by spring tension.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #10 on:** May 05, 2009, 03:53:24 PM »

what scares me is that if a engineer designed it it cant be cheap

44 Man · « **Reply #11 on:** May 07, 2009, 01:29:38 AM »

This is a design idea I personally like. But I also feel it is something that would have sold well in the 70's back when Skeeter was writing about his aireal target shooting. In todays 'politicall correct' climate, and the lack of safe places to shoot (as opposed to back in the 70's), I'm afraid it would not make it commercially. But it is neat concept. If you could produce it economically on a small scale, it could make a good 'hobby income' for you. 44 Man

Matt3357 · « **Reply #12 on:** May 07, 2009, 04:28:29 AM »

I think it would be really fun. My only concern is how much ammo I would burn up trying to hit the damn things. I think it would be cost prohibitive to make on a small scale. Especially the way I want to make the prototype. I want to make it with two DC motors, one on each wheel, with a motor control board each. Since I don't know the optimal speed difference it would be more of trial and error to see what throws them the best without breaking them. Once that is done, it could be setup using a chain and sprocket or gears with the right ratio. I think it will probably cost me close to $200 just to create the first one and that is with most of the materials scrounged from back home. The most expensive would be the direct drive motors.

Matt

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #13 on:** May 07, 2009, 05:12:01 AM »

My cousin and I both got 22 pistols for christmas one year and in short order we were able to put a soda can into the air and hit it in the air. Hitting a flying clay pigeon like from a trap would be hard but a short toss strait up will not be that hard to hit.

Matt3357 · « **Reply #14 on:** May 07, 2009, 07:54:54 AM »

hmmmm, do you think a 22 round would bust a clay pigeon in flight? I have a bad feeling that unless you hit is directly on the rim, it would just blow straight through.

Matt

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #15 on:** May 07, 2009, 08:24:51 AM »

22's break clay birds.
heck my pellet and the full auto BB gun break birds.
You may not see then shatter like a 12 ga but they will take chips off as well as break the bird in half.
This past weekeknd we were shooting a full box of birds with the 22 and only a few just made holes in the center and did not shatter the bird.

henryb · « **Reply #16 on:** May 29, 2009, 04:17:56 PM »

To circumvent the height issue, you might want to design something that throws a target (I like the tin can idea) at a 45 degree angle from say 5' from one side of the shooter moving across the line of fire and downrange. This way the target would be moving up, away at a slight angle adjusted to keep the "target" at 4-5' off the ground?

Hope this make sense.

Hairtrigger · « **Reply #17 on:** May 29, 2009, 04:28:45 PM »

Quote from: Lloyd Smale on May 05, 2009, 03:53:24 PM

what scares me is that if a engineer designed it it cant be cheap

Most common heard words from our engineering dept

"it worked on the computer"

Travis Morgan · « **Reply #18 on:** July 06, 2009, 09:36:51 AM »

Make some kinda AWD mobile target frame, for those of us that don't wanna walk out to the berm and back all day. I've considered making something like that for commercial use, but haven't figured it all out yet. Most likely need tracks on it, but it need to be bullet proof. All of my ideas would end up weighing 900 lbs. and cost about the same as a 4 wheeler.

Come to think of it, your thrower could be based on some kind R/C car with a magazine feed on top with some kinda servo motor flipper setup at the bottom of the magazine. Mount it on a Roomba for an extra challenge.

dakotashooter2 · « **Reply #19 on:** July 06, 2009, 10:55:04 AM »

This is probably too late but how about some type of reactive target. One in which hitting a plate would trigger the throwing of a target into the air. Make it self resetting (gravity?) and self feeding I'm envissioning something that would toss clay pigeons (on end) into the air.

Matt3357 · « **Reply #20 on:** July 06, 2009, 04:42:49 PM »

Oh its never too late for good ideas. Hmmm, that would be pretty fun to pair up with some one with a shot gun. Saw something very similar on Shooting USA's impossible shot. In that case whatshisname knocks over a silhouette and hits a lever causing a clay pigeon to fly up in the air. That could be very interesting. I will do some thinking on that.

Matt

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #21 on:** July 16, 2009, 10:43:19 AM »

They use those in the coyboy shoots they are called poppers and usually toss a soda can. You could modify it to pull the lever on a clay bird or have it toss a couple.