Pistol to Rifle ?

[243dave]

Fellers, (don't get mad at me) its probably been discussed over and over but I was wandering if you can buy a encore pistol frame and outfit it as a rifle and it be legal ? I'm not into pistols right now but that could change next week so I'd like to have the flexibility to have both on one frame. I know the other way around(rifle to pistol) isn't legal----just not sure about the pistol to rifle situation----seems like it would be fine.   Dave

[Steve P]

Yes, but you can never un-do it.  It's like an Encore sex change.  Once you go to bat on the rifle side, you can never go back to a pistol.

Steve

[243dave]

That stinks !  Thanks for the info Steve.

[woodchukhntr]

Yes, but you can never un-do it.  It's like an Encore sex change.  Once you go to bat on the rifle side, you can never go back to a pistol.

Steve

I disagree.  Once it is a pistol, it is always a pistol.  As long as you put a rifle barrel and stock on it, you can use it as a rifle, and change it back to a pistol merely by putting a pistol barrel and grip on it.  Don't try the opposite with a rifle frame, or put the wrong combination of parts on either!

If you don't believe me, call T/C and ask them.  If I am wrong, we will both learn something.

[Grumulkin]

Yes, but you can never un-do it.

Yes, you CAN undo it any time you like.

[bilmac]

I had a contender that I could switch back and forth. Thing is when I put a 21 inch 7x31 Waters barrel on it it was such a sweet little carbine that it never did go back to being a pistol.

[243dave]

Thanks fellers, this is the answer I was wanting.  I'm real close to gett'n the pistol frame. I had decided on a single-action 45colt. Now I may get a single-shot 45colt instead that I can change to a 308 rifle----don't get much more versatile than that !!

[Tommyt]

Here we go    Look at the last 3 pages of My Post "Can I make a 15 into a Rifle" here is my post on Page 5 or 6
****************************************************************************


This is in reference to your correspondence to the Bureau of Alcohol,Tobacco,Firearms And Explosives(ATF) Firearms Tec Branch in which you inquire about the configuration(s) and reconfiguration(s) of certain firearm kits which include both rifle and pistol components

These "multipurpose firearm kits"contain (but are not limited to) the following components :

 * A firearm or receiver which has not been assembled as a rifle or pistol.
 * One or more rifled barrel(s) having a length of less than 16 inches.
 * One or more rifled barrel(s) having  a Length of 16 inches or greater
 * One or more shoulder stocks.
 * One or more pistol grips.

 It is the position of the ATF that if a multipurpose firearm kit containing the above-listed
components is obtained as an assemblage of parts from a single source, the components of the kit
 may be assembled and subsequently reassembled an unlimited number of times as a rifle or a
 pistol. Please note, however that the assembly of a rifle having a barrel length of less than
16 inches from the components of a multipurpose firearm kit would still require the submission
and approval of an ATF Form 1 "application to make and register a firearm" , this is because
short-barreled rifles are subject to the National Firearms Act

 We thank you for your inquiry and trust that the foregoing has been responsive.
 Sincerely yours
John *****


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This is the Letter I received , I retyped it as it was written including the under lined section
  I feel they consider "a Kit" as any combination of Parts from a single source
I'd say they are talking TC you have a bag of Barrels, pistol grips ,frames, shoulder stocks
they call it a Kit ,I fully explained to him about the KIT that is no longer around and
where we are TODAY with our barrels grips & shoulder stocks
This is my Letter and I'm sticking to it
Sincerely
Tommyt

[gypsyman]

This is how it was expained to me. When you buy the frame, it will be registered either as a pistol, or a rifle. If it's registered as a rifle,LEGALLY, you are not suppose to put a pistol barrel/grip on it. If it is registered as a pistol, you can put a rifle barrel and stock on it. And you can go back to pistol configuration anytime you wish. I do however believe, you might very well be breaking the law, if you put a carbine barrel on it, with pistol grips. I think NFA rules apply here.
Of course all of this is null and void in Ca., as they seem to think they'll have a rash of drug dealers and bank holdup's with outlaws using T/C's with 7tcu's.  
Now here is the fly in the ointment so to speak. If your buying it used, does the previous owner know what it was registered as. I don't know of any ATF agents carrying around a list of T/C serial numbers, so not sure how they might check. Matter of fact, the back ground checks are suppose to be destroyed after the check.(yea right!!) So to check on a used gun, they would have to go back to the yellow sheet the original dealer had to keep. Oh hell, just buy the darn thing and have fun with it!! gypsyman

[gypsyman]

Beat me by 30 seconds TommyT. Next time I won't look over my spelling. gypsyman

[bangbang47]

Just my opinon. I can understand the reasoning behind taking a bare encore frame and installing a pistol grip and a rille barrel andcalling it illegal, no problem there.
Now , if you have two identical encore frames that are identical to each other in every way and you can assemble either a proper constructed rifle or pistol from that frame, then what is the reason behind it being illegal because of a manufacturers original designation. As long as the end result is a legal assembled rifle or pistol.

[mcwoodduck]

From what I understand here in the Democratic peoples republic of Kalifornia if you buy an encore and register it as a pistol it is forever a pistol even if you buy it in a rifle configuration.  If you buy it as a rifle and register it as a rifle/ long gun then it is a rifle and illegal to make into a pistol.  If registered as a long arm You can turn it into any other long arm.  Shot gun, muzzel loader ect.  If you registered it as a handgun then you can transform it into anything you want.  Hand gun, rifle, shotgun, muzzel.  As long as you do not break the rules and attach the pistol barrels with the rifle/ shoulder stock and turn it into a short barreled rifle ( may be legal with a $50 tax stamp in your state) you are OK with any of the T/C transformer guns.

[Steve P]

An Encore is NOT a Contender.  You do not have a Supreme Court decision to back you up.  You can have all the letters from TC that you want and they will not keep you out of a graybar hotel.

This is a free country.  Do what you want.  But don't get caught.

Steve

[mcwoodduck]

If I owned an Encore, I would contend that it is the same as design as the contender only a stronger action.
But that is something for your lawyer to argue.  Again it is easier to argure that it is a handgun if you register it as one at the time of purchase.

[VARMONTER]

I don't  pretend to understand the reasoning behind atf decisions. I know it has to do with Liberal liability
concerns,as well as corporate lobbying .and a blend of the best and worst of both.
 A contender/encore  is designed to be interchangable as a rifle or a pistol. Can't see any reason that
It can't be used as designed.. as long as you don't make a short barreled rifle or a long barreled pistol.
  But this is MY opinion and it thus will not be guaranteed to keep you safely un-incarcerated.
   Then again I could never understand why I don't have to register a muzzleloader??..  SHHHH...

[expeditionx]

I don't  pretend to understand the reasoning behind atf decisions. I know it has to do with Liberal liability
concerns,as well as corporate lobbying .and a blend of the best and worst of both.
 A contender/encore  is designed to be interchangable as a rifle or a pistol. Can't see any reason that
It can't be used as designed.. as long as you don't make a short barreled rifle or a long barreled pistol.
  But this is MY opinion and it thus will not be guaranteed to keep you safely un-incarcerated.
   Then again I could never understand why I don't have to register a muzzleloader??..  SHHHH...

I'm fairly certain that there is no maximum length regulation for a pistol barrel.
You could legally have a 5 foot barrel on a pistol if it was wanted.

[Keith L]

I don't  pretend to understand the reasoning behind atf decisions. I know it has to do with Liberal liability
concerns,as well as corporate lobbying .and a blend of the best and worst of both.
 A contender/encore  is designed to be interchangable as a rifle or a pistol. Can't see any reason that
It can't be used as designed.. as long as you don't make a short barreled rifle or a long barreled pistol.
  But this is MY opinion and it thus will not be guaranteed to keep you safely un-incarcerated.
   Then again I could never understand why I don't have to register a muzzleloader??..  SHHHH...

The ATF decisions are based on the decision made by the Supreme Court of the US in the case "won" by TC over the legality of TC selling the kit they once made including rifle and pistol parts to make that particular Contender interchangeable.   The court decision was specific to that situation, and folks ever since have tried to apply it to other firearms and situations.  It has nothing to do with liberals, liability concerns, or corporate lobbying.  So far it doesn't seem that ATF is all that concerned with this issue, but that doesn't negate their ruling, or mean that they will not become interested in the near future.

Also, if you are looking for real logic from the government, real predictability, you haven't been around government to long.