Is this legal?

[Heather]

As some of you may know I have a quiet challenging 6 year old.  He is wise beyond his years and believes he is even wiser.  During his kindergarten career he has been awarded 4 trips to the office in which I always approved a paddling.  It is near schools end and the school gave me a not so subtle suggestion.  They told me I need to medicate my child for ADHD. 

I let them know that there is no way I am giving my child psychotropic drugs for being a child.  I guess they weren't happy with my response because I was summoned to court by the Calhoun County School System.  I arrived this morning not knowing what the problem was.  I was appointed a child advocate for Evan.  Mr. Reaves let me know that the school was petitioning for me to have him medically evaluated.  Before he will be allowed to attend 1st grade they REQUIRE him to have a doctor’s release saying he does not have ADHD or a copy of his prescriptions.

How is this legal?  How can any school REQUIRE a parent to medicate their child for something they can't even prove exists.  ADHD is subjective at best.  In my opinion it is a disease fabricated to give parents a reason to give their children meds so they don't have to deal with them. 

I know all mothers think their children are angels, but I know better.  Evan is not the model student.  He does cause trouble, but it is little things.  They flip cards every time they are gotten on to.  Evan flips 2 most days sometimes 1 or 3 cards a day.  There are even days where he doesn’t flip any.  Every day he is sent home a folder with this information, so I know it isn’t him lying. So tell me why it is too much trouble to correct a 6 year old 2 to 3 times in an eight hour day?  They have been in school 163 days and out of 163 days he was such a bother in the classroom he had to go to the office 4 times.  That is 4 days out of 163 that he got in trouble 5 times.

How does the school have the right to get a ‘court’ to issue a request for a child to be medically evaluated?  Even if they did have the right to have children medically evaluated, how do you request someone be tested for something that there isn’t even a standardized test for and is just left to a doctors OPINION?  How is this legal?

Heather

[ncsurveyor]

http://www.alliancedefensefund.org/issues/traditionalfamily/Default.aspx

ADF has fought against numerous attacks on marriage and family values, including efforts to:
    * Deny parents the right to raise their children before God as they see fit

Don't rely on the armchair quarterbacks.  Get a lawyer.

[NH Yankee]

Heather

I don't know about the state you live in but in RI a friend's son was evaluated by a school psychologist and the child was then sent to an MD.  The mother did not want the child on drugs and protested in vain.  She would give the meds only on school days.

ADHD is a subjective diagnosis.  There is not medical test for it.  The psychological tests can be indicative but no sure diagnosis.  As an aside, try a little caffeine just before school as that is basically what the meds are.

NH Yankee

[bubba]

unfortunately they can. They can say he will be a danger to the other kids in class.  I have to say as a psych nurse practitioner ADHD does exist.  However it is the mostbover used diagnosis there is especuially for kids who do not receive discipline at home and run the house.  I know that it not the case at your home and I commend for being a dying breed who actually make their kids mind.  That being said I must say that it is not psychotropic meds a child gets for adhd.  They actually get speed in the form of methylphenidate aka ritalin.  What it actualy does is slows a child down as it as the opposite effect it normally does. The same thing happens if you give a child benadryl they get hyper That is the simplest way to see if a child actually had adhd is to give them a dose of ritalin.  If they slow down, they have it and if they dont they are misdiagnosed.  I would say and believe me children is not my forte, that I would never medicate a child for adhd.  There are so many other methods which are as effective such as diet and true behavior modification techniques.  I would suggest doing some research and be prepared for a fight on your hands.  If you would like some assistance with what to look for feel free to send me a pm and I will be glad to discuss it with you.  

[powderman]

HEATHER. I'm not sure what adhd is but believe it deals with supposed hyperactivity, not sure. I don't know what you mean by flipping cards. Too many school teachers and school systems want nothing but docile kids to deal with, Heaven forbid that they are real active. Don't know the legal aspects but I firmly believe that WAY too many kids are heavily medicated so parents and teachers don't have to deal with them, keeps them docile and inactive. I really feel for you. POWDERMAN.  

[mechanic]

Heather,

I have ADHD.  I am 56 yrs. old.  It didn't have a name when I was a kid, so they just sent me to the office.  The principal would sit and talk with me like a grownup, and soon started giving me extra projects.  I would go in the winter and light the coal heaters in the gym.  I helped the janitor clean the boiler.  He bought dry cell batteries and wire and switches, and we designed electrical circuits.  I have worked as an electronics, electrical tech. the last almost 40 years.

Your child may be extremely bright, ahead of his peers, and bored stiff.  Do not put him on these drugs except as a last resort.

My wife has worked with children for many years.  A child who is "uncontrollable" must be differered from a child who is hard to control and needs extra attention

My best to you...

Ben

[billy_56081]

I guess it depends on the laws in Alabama. If they can forcibly medicate your child there i would either home school or private school this child. There is no worse abuse that drugging a child. People who drug children for behavoral problems are in the same bunch as child molesters in my book.

[Heather]

I guess it depends on the laws in Alabama. If they can forcibly medicate your child there i would either home school or private school this child. There is no worse abuse that drugging a child. People who drug children for behavoralk problems are in thesame bunch as child molesters in my book.

That reminded me of something the "child advocate" said this morning.  He told me that if the doctor found him to have ADHD and I still refused to medicate him that I could be charged with neglect because I choose to withhold medication that is deemed benificial from my child.  Benificial to whom??

Heather

[Swampman]

Time for home school.

[LONGTOM]

Heather I feel for you as there is no greater joy than a child.
That is the whole thing, they are children, not guinny pigs!
There were 3 very good suggestions posted by ncsurveyor,billy, & Swampman .
Get a lawyer.
Private school.
Home school.

I will throw one more at you.
Get him in a good Christian school.

They will take the time he needs and will teach him the word of GOD at the same time.
I have two nephews who both attended a Christian school.
The youngest is now a preacher and the oldest has been into drugs and alcohol for years but with the help from his brother he has gotten back on the right path and will tell you in a heartbeat that it was his brother and the work of GOD who straightened him out.


Good luck to you & your family and please keep up posted on the outcome of this.

Just another place that the government really has no place being involved!


LONGTOM

[Cornbelt]

The Alliance Defense Fund, as linked by ncsurveyor is T-H-E place for you to contact. Socalized education is about like socalized anything else.   Plan B: Get the H*** out of Dodge!

[WylieKy]

I don't know that getting a lawyer will do anything but cost you money...  The law is the law until WE change it...  My advise: Put on you nicest dress and put a big pretty smile on your face and say, "Yes, sir! I didn't realize he was that bad...Thank you!"  Fill the prescription and then give him tic tacs (instead of the meds)...and continue those paddleings you were talking about.  Home school if you can, but that is an option that many don't have.  If you can't Home School, don't raise a ruckus 'cause that will just get you the wrong attention.  Advocate parent's rights, but in the mean time play along and they'll forget you exist.   

I say this, knowing it would be all I could do to not go into a frothing rage in the court room and wind up on TV on one of those FOX shows.  I feel for you and hope all works out.  Keep us updated.

[CannonKrazy]

Heather

ADHD is a subjective diagnosis.  There is not medical test for it.  The psychological tests can be indicative but no sure diagnosis.  As an aside, try a little caffeine just before school as that is basically what the meds are.

NH Yankee

This seems to be backwards thinking but it does help. One of my nephews has ADHD and the doctors told his mother to give him coffee extra strong before school and again when he returned home. It sounds crazy but this kid is a wild child without it. He is 14 now but when he was about 7 you couldn't stand to be around him more than ten minutes. He will drink every bit of 2 pots of coffee a day by himself. He isn't on any medication either.

[gypsyman]

Heather, my wife and I have a 10 years old. Not sure if he has ADHD, but has a learning disorder. He has a hard time concentrating on school work. He's in a couple extra class's. If it had to do with big time wrestling, he could tell you every wrestling move ever used, who won what match 2 months ago. If he's interested in something, he'll get it. He'll get an a+ in spelling and history, and flunk math and science. My wife and I work with him probably 2 hours a day after school, just to get him to understand some things. We had a teacher last year in the 3rd. grade suggest we take him to a doctor and see if there wasn't something we could get him on. (ridalin I think she said). After I politely informed her she would be working 12 months out of the year for her pay instead of 9 before I'ld put my boy on drugs, that was the end of that conversation. It's been tough, but we're working it out.
If your son is over active, have you looked at how much sugar a day he gets. I thought my brother was bs'ing me years ago, about when his kids would get home from trick or treating. Boy, was I wrong. It's like an on off switch. I see my 2 boys have too much candy/soda pop/ marshmellows, whatever, boy do they jump around.
When I fix them breakfast, I mix their packaged oatmeal, which contains alot of sugar, with plain oats. Cuts down on how much sugar they get for breakfast. If they want cold cereal, I usually buy plain cherios, corn flakes, whatever, and mix it with sugar coated kind, just so they don't get so much sugar at one time. I buy sugarless gum, even though I think it tastes like crap, just so their not getting buzzed up. You might try using honey to sweeten things. Much better than prossesed sugar.
As far as the school system telling you that you have to medicate Evan, I think it's bull crap. That's your son. Not their ward. I would call the state attorney general's office, and ask them. But I don't think they can force you to medicate him. If one of our boys gets to acting up, has energy to burn, we make him do push ups. Lots of them. And I'm not talking girlie push ups. Marine style push ups. Nose touch's the floor, back straight, no bending. After about the 2nd or 3rd set of them, they start acting straight. Good Luck  gypsyman

[no guns here]

Two words - "HOME SCHOOL".  My wife has schooled my kids at home off and on for 11 years.  Even now, they all attend public schools on post we still do some classes at home.  I have two high school juniors.  One is doing English Comp at home.  The other is doing Algebra II at home.  My freshman is doing his math and language at home.  My youngest (3rd grade) is full time at public schools but wants to come back to home-school next year.  If you happen to choose to home-school then you MUST (okay... it's a really good idea) to just the HSLDA or Home School Legal Defense Association.  Google it...  It hasn't been easy at times to afford the loss of income because my wife couldn't work full time but we've made it work for years.

I am fully convinced that a large part of the ADHD sufferers are actually just undisciplined children.  I have seen a bunch of kids that are medicated for school who are NEVER disciplined in their home.  Now, I'm not saying ALL are that way or even that a majority are like that.  I do however feel that they just need to know their boundaries and limits.  Will your son sit and play with cars or toys by himself for longer periods of time?  Pay attention to stuff like that.  It may just be that he really doesn't like his class, classmates, teacher or whatever.  My son had problems like that for a while.  We finally figured out that he absolutely couldn't stand his teacher.  She was mean and hostile to the kids.  Moved him to a different class and the issues went away.

I hope you resolve this situation easily.  Alabama (10 years ago) was pretty good on home-schooling.  The easiest way was to be a member of a private school (usually a church school) that would then do a semi-yearly "inspection" of your curriculum and records.  Not a big deal just a walk through.

Call your local school district, they should have a "home-school liaison".  If you're not sure of the answer, call more school districts until you get a consistent answer.  Also, like the NRA lists state-by-state laws, HSLDA does the same for home-school laws across the country.

best of luck,
NGH

[Dand]

Stick to your guns Heather but stay legal too.  Here is a link to another legal advice group that helped our friends with a squabble at school:http://www.rutherford.org/Issues/ParentsRights.asp

In our friend's case, when it was their son's turn to bring snacks, he wrote little tags for each cookie that said God Loves You. The teacher called the principal and the cookies were confiscated. With the help of the Rutherford Institute, the cookies and tags were returned and the boy was allowed to distribute the cookies. But the school refused to apologize.

I don't know if they have expertise on medications.
I have sat in on some classes at the same school and they work pretty hard with some parents to avoid meds.  Another friend's son is ADD or something and he has coffee before school. If he gets feeling jumpy during class, he just goes to his teacher who keeps a bag of chocolate covered coffee beans for him; he gets 2 or 3, chomps them down and carries on with his class work. I actually observed this occur.  That kid had a hard start in a rough family but his foster parents adopted him and he's doing wonderfully now.

I met another lady who did as a previous poster suggested.  Accept the meds then lie that they are being administered. In her case the kid went from busy, happy, enthusiastic with friends to sullen withdrawn and friendless in a week. He would go in his room and sit with all the lights out by himself on the meds (winter in Alaska is already VERY dark).  She decided to tell him that this is one time when lying was ok and skipped the meds. He struggled but graduated from highschool and the  school was none the wiser and he was a lot happier.

My sons are in a Christian private school where they don't advocate meds at all. The teachers work extra hard for the kids. My oldest has other issues that could be medicated, we even tried it for a while but after a short period of improvement, he got worse so we stopped. Another kid there was REALLY bad when he first showed up. Now, his grandma gives him and energy drink before school and he's a much more tractable kid.

I have had it explained that in some of these kids, different parts of their brains may work at different speeds so they get stuff jumbled or out of order and they get all confused. The stimulant speeds up some of the slow parts of their brains or somehow evens out the brain function so the kid isn't confused or jumbled.  From observing a couple of these kids, it seems to be true and I'd sure try caffeine before some of the harder stuff. 

And watch the sugar like a previous post said. I hear studies now claim sugar has no effect on kids but I  have a hard time believing it. We have a neighbor kid who is a sugar addict to the point he has stolen sodas and candy from our house. I have seen him be calm and collected, then drink a ginger ale and he went into orbit as if I'd given him a triple shot espresso - I believe some kids are sugar sensitive.

Just this week my kids' teacher sent home a print out from some report (on BBC??) that insufficient sleep may be a contributor to poor and even hyper behavior in some kids.

Sometimes I wish for the good old days when many kids walked a couple miles to and from school - probably took the edge off for a lot of them.  I live 3 miles from my kid's school and this time of year I'm ready to make mine hike.

So good luck, I hope you find some better options and support. I believe you have more rights than the school is willing to admit.

[slim rem 7]

sorry heather.. even when i was raising mine the ball was rolling in this direction.. i ll never forget my 13 yr old sayin daddy we really don t have to do what you an mom say.. we just tell our counselor if yall spanked us.. now i hated to spank.. had a formula .. you no what you get a spanking for .. mostly disrespect of thier mom,or babysitter..
 if you do the offense you go to your room for an hour an then you three licks with a belt on you bottum.. i came up with this as i didn t want to spank angry an i didn t want them to have any doubts.. its very little spanking we had to do.. my 13 yr. old was really past the age i like to spank but really a bad influence that day,on the younger ones..i felt it was necessary to reestablish parental authority,, govt or no govt .. so i called her hand .. told her she had one chance to appologise..she did thank god..cause i was gonna leave her no doubts .. ss or jail..
 your problem is a bit different. but its still govt involving itself in your personal rearing of your child..i can t tell you what to do,
as it can be hard.. if it matters to you riddlin did help one of my kids an had no bad effects .. but thats just my cade.. good luck..slim

[Dixie Dude]

Find a church that has a school or supports home schooling.  Church schools are not regulated by the state of Alabama.  Also, if your church doesn't believe in this type medication, then you can get a religious exemption.  DHR has limitations, but they don't tell you this.  Find a Christian lawyer (there are some, few and far between).  Home school him if possible.  He is just an overactive boy, bored.  When I was growing up, kids played outside a lot more than they do today, did chores, and ran off this excess energy. 

[ms]

I would take your boy to your own doctor. I would put him in private school. Michael Savage has a book out called Healing Children Naturally.

[magooch]

Boy, I'm glad I went to school before all this drug stuff was started.  I guess I was a little bit of a problem in kindergarten also...and the second and third grades.  As time went on, some testing was done on all the kids and I guess I did very well.  After that, the rest of my time in the school system was very easy.  I would go as far to say that it was rigged in my favor. 

I did have a couple of encounters with a teacher here and there who hadn't taken a look at my folder (records).  I was accused of cheating on tests etc., but after those teachers had a briefing from those in charge, things smoothed back out. 

When I was in the 7th grade I found out that I had done very, very well on an IQ test that was given in the earlier grades.  Without that info in my records, I think I would have had a tough time of it.  Thank God we had testing instead of drugs.

[SHOOTALL]

Heather be very careful what you do and say . Like any good parent you might take what they say as a hint that a problem may exist ( not nessary a problem with your child ) and have an evaluation made by a profesonal of your choosing under conditions you control .
Private school or home school may be a good option but costly ( you pay taxes so why should your child be left out of public school ).
Your child may have speical needs that the school is not addressing and using their claim to cover it up . I say this because i had a son that had some problems . The school found out that by fed law they were required to accomidate his needs . They tried every year to get him off the speical treatment as it cost them . We had to meet with them every year and demand he stay on the program .
What I'm saying is with an independent report from a profesonal of your choice you can take the lead in how and when your child will be educated and when and if any speical treatment is nessary . IE you take what they say under advisement but retain with the help of a professonal the control of your childs welfare . It may be only one visit to the profesonal and a positive report given . At which time the school system can be evaluated as to needs for students .
The first place to start may be your family doctor and minister .
GOOD LUCK ! And don't worry so much about what they can do do what you can and know is right for your son .

[hunt-m-up]

Time to find another school or go the home school route. I also agree that you should at least consult some form of legal counsel to avoid this situation going downhill very rapidly. They are often too quick to go the medication route as an easy solution.
I hope this works out for you, but choose your words wisely as they are recording everything at this stage.

Everyone take note, this is where we are headed in every aspect of our lives with the current U.S. administration.

[gstewart44]

Heather - I am very sorry to hear of the "big brother" attitude of your school district.   My nephew had a similar experience when he was 8-10 yrs old.   He would either do very well in one subject, finish his work and then start talking and "disrupting" the class. Or he would not understand the material, fail and get frustrated, then start "disrupting" the class.   The teacher and the first pediatrician said he had ADHD and wanted him on Ritalin.    

My sister and Brother in Law said no way.   They started researching on their own and found that certain food allergies can disrupt the thinking patterns in kids.    My sis took her son to an allergist, they made a diary of all of his foods for a week.  From there they started eliminating certain foods.    They found out he was very allergic to all types of nuts, bananas, yeasts....etc.   Anyway they modified his diet and by the next report period he was making straight A's and no more "disruptions".   He was able to focus at school and said things made more sense.    

Bottom line is,  I think some children may actually have ADHD,  but I believe as another poster said that it is the most over used diagnosis around.   Physicians find it is easier (for them) to modify a child's behavior by medicating them into a zombie state rather than take the time to find out what is really going on.  

I don't know if this helps but certainly look at alternative medical options and get some legal help.    I will be reading and keeping you and your family in my prayers.   God Bless.

[mcwoodduck]

Heather,
Please do not take this the wrong way.
When I first moved to CA I rented the back half of a house from a lady who had a 7 year old.  The teachers wanted him on drugs as well.
I saw the problem was his diet.  the mother would just feed the kid sugar.  
Cereal in the morning
Peanut Butter and Jelly for lunch
and some pasta for dinner.
When I heard it I said let me feed the kid and after a week if they still think he needs to be on drugs then OK.
Everymorning he would get eggs,  for lunch a sandwitch with some meat ( ham, roast Beef, tuna, or chicken)
and for dinner there was a protien, a starch, and some green veg.
the change in diet changed his behavior.
he was not amped up on sugar and then crash only to be amped up on sugar again.  
Also when the kid got home all he did was play video games.  that was the second thing I changed.  When he got home he had to go out and play for an hour at the park down the street with the other neighborhood kids.
hope this all works out for you.

[Heather]

Thanks so much guys for all of your insight.  I know this sounds ugly, but I will not bend to the will of the school in this matter in any way shape form or fashion.  I know enough doctors that I'm sure I could convince one of them to provide the doctors clearance saying he doesn't have it.  I mean there is no test for it so it is not like they would have to fake results.  I could do it legit if Matt took him to the appointment.  There is no way Evan will step out of line one bit with Matt anywhere near.   The only complaint the school has is Evan is impulsive.  He does what he wants to even when he knows it is wrong.  He talks to the teacher without raising his hand, or he gets a book without permission, or he talks to his friend during class.  They feel that with the meds he would not do those things.  


Evan doesn't have trouble with focus or concentration.  In academia at school he excels.  He gets smiley faces on all of his work.  On his report cards all S's (Satisfactory, the highest) except in behavior.  His behavior marks are N for needs improvement.  That is the middle.  Unsatisfactory is the worst, and he hasn't had one of them ever.  Evan is simply bored and class and does things to make the day more interesting.  The teacher knows that we discussed it at the beginning of the year.  She was giving him harder work to keep him busy, and he was doing great.  She went out on extended leave and he was left with a sub who couldn't be bothered with the extra work.  

I don't feel that the school has the right to make such a request.  The law may say differently I guess.  I will find out though. If they don't have the right then I via my attorney will tell them so in court in a respectable manner.

 If they do I will take on the huge responsibility of home schooling my kids.  I have to admit that I am terrified of being the sole giver of the gift of education to my sons.  This is an ever increasingly tough world we live in today.  All I can do is pray that I am able to meet the challenge and give my kids the knowledge they will need to be successful in life.  

I always knew that was my burden to bare, but for some naive reason I thought public school could teach them the things I forgot in school.  School is about so much more than learning.  There is the social experience, the friendships, sports, proms, and so many things I wanted to experience with my boys.  I will do whatever I have to do to give them as a fulfilled childhood as public school could offer, maybe even more so.  

A Christian school would be a great idea if it was possible.  With three children and the ever rising cost of everything, it just isn't doable.

Oh and the only sugar my kids get is natural sugars in fruits and the kissing kind at bedtime.    Don’t get me wrong they may have a cookie every once in a while, but they are all about the healthy snacks.

Heather

 

[PartsMan]

Read up on ADHD all you can. It is usually miss diagnosed and if he does have it there are many other ways of treating it.
Diet is a big one and not just sugar. If you can get him toned down a little before the evaluation he will pass it and you are good. Also get your own evaluation from a doctor you pic.

You should here my wife (special ed teacher) go of on this rant.

[Singleshotsam]

Stand your ground Heather.  I can't offer any advice other than to listen well to the words of those who have been there.  

My sister in law home schools her children.  They are both, without a doubt to most polite children I have ever met.  The older one is about 13 years old and his schoolwork is on a 10th grade level.  It can be done, and you will no doubt excell at home-schooling your children if it comes down to it.  I would for sure consult with a lawyer.  Most consultations are free.  If at all possible, keep the kid off the dope, because that alters who they truly are and he seems like he's a really good kid.  

I get pissed off when I read about teachers who can't handle their students.  

I also agree that the book by Michael Savage would be a good read. 

[scootrd]

I'm not chiming in on medicate or not medicate , or what authority the school should have or not have.
 am going to make one comment ..
Other children attend the class . IF one child is being so disruptive (and I am not saying yours is) that it takes away from others having the ability to learn. Then the school , and parents needs to come together as a team and resolve the issue.

It's unfair to other students and parents if their children are not receiving the proper level of teaching in the classroom because class is continuously interrupted by one student and the teacher has to stop teaching to deal with the issue.

By the way I was one of those children before ADD or ADHD or any other medical stigma condition was attached to a disruptive child.
My report card said  -  causes disruption in class.
My Father solved this very quickly with a swift boot to my back end. No drugs needed. But of course that was late 60's early 70's.

Where slingshotsam  "I get pissed off when I read about teachers who can't handle their students."
I also get pissed off at parents (again heather not directing this comment at your situation) who cant control their kids.   
Main issue here is everyone keep level head and come together as team not adversaries to resolve the issue and do whats best for the child, and the other children in the classroom to create an effective and productive learning environment for all.    

[Dixie Dude]

You might check on Asperger syndrone.  I think that is what it is called.  A person can be brilliant, but doesn't have social skills as such.  Einstein I think had it because he could forget to tie his shoes, as well as Bill Gates.  So it isn't all bad and can be in varying degrees.  They just don't know when not to interrupt someone when speaking, or they have their mind on one thing and drown out the rest.  They can be easily bored.  Have it in my family. 

[SHOOTALL]

And in cases such as that the school is responsible to accomidate the student in the learning enviroment with the other students . It takes a good teacher a speical attitude wanting to teach/help and not just be incharge to work it out .