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Offline brianscott12

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Dry Firing
« on: May 09, 2009, 11:56:40 AM »
I had a friend lookin at my buff classic this mornin and he dry fired it twice before I could stop him. How much damage is done when one is dry fired and could a couple of times have hurt it?
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Dry Firing
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2009, 12:02:20 PM »
Likely none, but one has been reported with a broken firing pin after just one dry hammer fall, probably was a defective pin to begin with tho.  :-\ The transfer bar has also been reported broken from dry firing. It's a good idea to have spares of both....just in case.  ;)

Tim
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Offline brianscott12

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Re: Dry Firing
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2009, 12:10:48 PM »
I cocked the hammer with the action open and slowly let the hammer fall and it seemed to function fone but with all the talk bout dry firing I was just a bit concerned.
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Offline kevinsmith5

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Re: Dry Firing
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2009, 01:12:54 PM »
This is why my BC always has a snap cap in it unless it is truly loaded.  BTW that would e a former friend of mine if they did that to my BC.
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Offline brianscott12

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Re: Dry Firing
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2009, 01:25:28 PM »
Quote from: kevinsmith5 on May 09, 2009, 01:12:54 PM
This is why my BC always has a snap cap in it unless it is truly loaded.  BTW that would e a former friend of mine if they did that to my BC.
Lol, I hea ya but I don"t have many real friends and I'd like to keep what  I got. ;)  Would a shell casing with the primer removed and silicone inserted work as a dummy round?
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Offline kevinsmith5

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Re: Dry Firing
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2009, 03:18:31 PM »
I've heard of people using trimmed pencil erasers even. Make sure the silicon is the kind that doesn't stay tacky.
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Offline Bob_VT

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Re: Dry Firing
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2009, 04:10:18 PM »
FIll an old primer pocket with 2 part epoxy.  It has enough give or carve a pice of rubber off an old tire and use that in the primer pocket (works better than an eraser).

I usually fill the shell with lead shot and cripm a bullet in.  I have a few that I have made and if you are shooting you will never confuse it with a live round due to the weight.
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Offline kevinsmith5

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Re: Dry Firing
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2009, 04:18:52 PM »
My snap caps weren't very expensive and I've seen them in every major shooter's supply catalog and website.
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Offline Sourdough

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Re: Dry Firing
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2009, 08:55:27 PM »
In class I have the kids dry fire all the guns we have them shoot on the range.  We have every type of gun and most makes, Remingtons, Rugers, Winchesters, Henrys, Savages, and a few H&Rs.  Been doing it for over 15 years with 25 to 30 guns.  The guns are dry fired, then shot, hundreds of times each class.  In all that time we have only had maybe three or four broken firing pins.
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Dry Firing
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2009, 09:56:09 PM »
From the Handi owner's manual:

NOTICE: This firearm should
never be dry fired, as damage
could occur to the barrel and/or firing pin.


http://www.hr1871.com/documents/manuals/HR_NEF_HANDI_RIFLE_MANUAL.pdf
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Offline zoner

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Re: Dry Firing
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2009, 02:50:32 AM »
i made snap caps out of fired brass with the pencil eraser glued in the primer pocket...it's inexpensive and i pretty much keep em in the gun's chamber...easier to find when i need em(hunting critters on the animal channel).... ;D
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Offline kevinsmith5

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Re: Dry Firing
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2009, 04:52:17 AM »
As a general rule I am not fond of Rossi's, but I will say their saftety on their single shots lets you dry fire without damaging the firing pin....I so would never ever have people in a class dry fire without snap caps on PURPOSE.....
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Offline kevinsmith5

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Re: Dry Firing
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2009, 04:52:49 AM »
No offense....
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Offline jlwilliams

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Re: Dry Firing
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2009, 06:28:55 AM »
  I have a clip of dummy rounds for my Garand that have little plugs of leather in the primer pockets.  Seems to work fine and is simple enough to make.

  The risk of dry firing is worse with some gun designs than with others.  For example, some 22 rimfires will send the pin right into the ege of the chamber.  I've seen some so buggered up that you couldn't chamber a round.  I don't make a habbit of dry firing any gun, and I teach my children not to do it.  At the same time I don't think it's the end of the world if a gun has been dry snapped once or twice.
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Offline wreckhog

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Re: Dry Firing
« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2009, 03:40:01 PM »
I tend to believe that any gun which would be damaged by dry firing a few times is a poor design. Any gun that sits in a store rack without a lock and accessible to customers has probably seen it's share.
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Offline kevinsmith5

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Re: Dry Firing
« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2009, 04:27:32 PM »
THe firing pin is designed to strike the primer with enough force to ignit it. If that resistence is NOT there the pin can slam forward against it's housing and be weakened or sheared. It's been a long time since I saw a gun store that kept unlocked guns where people could get at them and all the ones I go to a clerk satnds right there and keeps an eye on you while you handle them....
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Offline myarmor

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Re: Dry Firing
« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2009, 07:06:15 PM »
If it's my Bolt Actions I am not as lerry, but I have come to know for a fact that you will eventually damage the transfer bar section of the action and it's a P.I.T.A to fix by yourself. Home made snap caps can work but some are too soft( i.e. the pencil eraser in the spent primer pocket) once the dent is made it only a matter of time till it will hold the made hole indent. I once sent off my (then brand new 223 Ultra frame) for a 30-06 UC barrel....after weeks I got it back only to accidently dry fire it 1X and the transfer bar fell out  >:( >:( Took me another 3 weeks to get it fixed (in all fairness they did it , but to much waste of my time and needs. A little extra goods for my lost use and damage in to the farm would have been nice) but I am ranting..... If ya dry fire it, don't do it much.






-Aaron
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Offline Sourdough

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Re: Dry Firing
« Reply #17 on: May 11, 2009, 07:54:54 AM »
I did not start the practice of having the kids dry fire the guns, it was being done decades before I started teaching there.  At first I cringed every time I heard the kids dry firing those guns.  But after a few months it no longer bothers me. 

As wreckhog said  "I tend to believe that any gun which would be damaged by dry firing a few times is a poor design."  I tend to agree. 

Over the decades very few firing pins have been broken at the club.  And no other problems have came up due to this practice.

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Offline kevinsmith5

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Re: Dry Firing
« Reply #18 on: May 12, 2009, 12:23:20 AM »
But with Snap Caps it would probably be "no firing pins broken" not "very few".
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Offline mechanic

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Re: Dry Firing
« Reply #19 on: May 12, 2009, 11:20:52 AM »
Back in the days of yore, my Dad had an old 38 that was badly out of time and badly worn.  He filled the ends of the cylinders with putty so a round wouldn't go in, and gave it to my brothers to play with.  About a year later, I dug it out of the mud, washed it off with the hose and put it away.  Much later I had it repaired and retimed and reblued.  It shoots great.  Of course the old Jap rifle he gave us did not fare as well.  The bolt will not release at all, after only a few dry fires.  I remember Mama saying "if you ask me to cock it one more time......." just before it broke.  Its a good wall hanger though.
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Offline Sourdough

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Re: Dry Firing
« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2009, 08:19:36 PM »
kevinsmith5:  Snap Caps look too much like ammo, and are not allowed in the class room.  And the very few I mentioned, have been two firing pins in the last 12 years that I have been an instructor there.  Only two firing pins out of thousands upon thousands of dry fires, thats pretty good to me.
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Offline cwlongshot

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Re: Dry Firing
« Reply #21 on: May 12, 2009, 11:27:33 PM »
Quote from: Sourdough on May 09, 2009, 08:55:27 PM
In class I have the kids dry fire all the guns we have them shoot on the range.  We have every type of gun and most makes, Remingtons, Rugers, Winchesters, Henrys, Savages, and a few H&Rs.  Been doing it for over 15 years with 25 to 30 guns.  The guns are dry fired, then shot, hundreds of times each class.  In all that time we have only had maybe three or four broken firing pins.

  If any of you guys who so dreadfully fear dry firing ever went to a manufacturer to see all the dry firing of your guns before they leave the factory you would likely drop dead right there...  The first time I went to Colt firearms I almost died! My dads voice was loudly running thru my head about never never dry-firing a gun. Its just not so.

  Dry firing is a big part of US Military and NRA training. Sure snap caps are a good idea, but dont get quite so hung up on this. As A rule the only firearms I will not dry fire are I/O or SXS shotguns and Rim-fires. Even some of them are perfectly fine to dry fire as the FP will not contact the edge of the chamber. Italian copies of the Colt model P are very susceptible to frame damage form dry firing and as we read here handis seem to also be so afflicted. But this is a durability from lower quality of components.

Now like I said, I'm going to be a bit of a hypocrite here and in practice will install dry-fire plugs before any extensive dry firing runs. My point is, just done be quite so worry some about a couple dry-fire hammer drops and please forgive that buddie, he likely meant no harm. Any quality firearm would NOT be harmed.

CW
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