Author Topic: Help..need advice on a 380 (Read 3542 times)

U S Male · « **on:** May 09, 2009, 03:36:00 PM »

Been around and owned guns of all kinds for many years and now I find myself wanting a light weight, small 380 to keep in my pocket. Do the small 380's have good ballistics (ammo that will give 900-1100 fps or can you get that on the small ones). I've never owned an automatic other than 22's (I do have 38's, 357's etc.). What is the best buy for the money...all help will be apprecitated...Dave

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #1 on:** May 10, 2009, 01:57:59 AM »

ive got a couple ruger lcps both with crimsom trace lazers on them and there the cats ass for sticking in your pocket. I keep one in the truck and one in the jeep.

bluecow · « **Reply #2 on:** May 10, 2009, 03:09:09 AM »

hornaday lists 380 ammo at 1000fps from a 4" barrel. cut about 30fps for every inch of barrel removed. 200.89 vs 177.51 me. check me math was never one of my best. teh feg smc-380 is a nice one, had a davis but didnt trust the safety ( ya i know about trusting safties)

Savage · « **Reply #3 on:** May 10, 2009, 02:51:14 PM »

I have had good service from the Kel Tec .32/.380/9mms. Current own half a dozen total. One of them is always on my person for everyday activities. I might move up to something bigger depending on my activities or destination.
Savage

ncsurveyor · « **Reply #4 on:** May 10, 2009, 02:58:50 PM »

I'm in a minority as far as which 380 to use, but ballistics wise, I've had the opportunity to test it on live targets, i.e. dispatching diseased or old livestock.

My 380ACP, with either hydrashoks, or HP reloads will dispatch a goat no less efficiently than my dad's 9mm, or my friends 40 cal.

Keep in mind, these were "gangland¹" style shootings on the livestock, but at least the terminal effects were comparable.

¹back of the head, close range

Coonhound · « **Reply #5 on:** May 10, 2009, 06:17:31 PM »

I have a Bersa Thunder .380 that shoots like a dream. Its not the smallest of the .380s but is comparable to the PPK in size. Very reliable pistol and the cost is somewhere between $200 and $250 depending on model and finish. I bought mine about 10 years ago so I'm not up to date on prices. Check out the BersaTalk website to read what their devoted followers have to say.

cybin · « **Reply #6 on:** May 12, 2009, 04:57:45 PM »

I have carried a Llama .380 for around 25 years or so. Did have 2 of them until a couple of months ago, and let my nephew talk me out of one. That new Ruger looks to me to be a good one. Hydro-shoks and ball ammo are all I ever use in a .380.

cybin

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #7 on:** May 13, 2009, 12:17:51 AM »

those bersas are probably the best bang for the buck in a ccw gun. Ive yet to see a bad one.

Quote from: Coonhound on May 10, 2009, 06:17:31 PM

I have a Bersa Thunder .380 that shoots like a dream. Its not the smallest of the .380s but is comparable to the PPK in size. Very reliable pistol and the cost is somewhere between $200 and $250 depending on model and finish. I bought mine about 10 years ago so I'm not up to date on prices. Check out the BersaTalk website to read what their devoted followers have to say.

Robert357 · « **Reply #8 on:** May 18, 2009, 08:14:52 PM »

Quote from: U S Male on May 09, 2009, 03:36:00 PM

...now I find myself wanting a light weight, small 380 to keep in my pocket. Do the small 380's have good ballistics (ammo that will give 900-1100 fps or can you get that on the small ones)........What is the best buy for the money...

Small, light, .380 Auto and best buy for the money.......KelTec P3 AT. I own one and love it. I paid $265 before sales tax earlier this year. The old ones required a fluff and buff to work reliabily the new ones, just require a little break-in and generous lubing of the rails and cleaning after each use at the range. I decided to use TS-30 Molly lube and the KelTec loves it and has been very reliable. The molly also plates the rails and things smooth over time.

Now as to the ballistics of the .380 Auto. The KelTec P3 AT will do +P .380 (not recommended continuously) but fine to use due to locked breach as opposed to blowback. May I suggest Buffalo Bore +P .380 Auto......100 grain hard lead cast flat nose out of the KelTec at 1061 fps or a 90 grain JFP out of the KelTec at 1100 fps. Either should meet your balistic requirement and provide decent penetration. http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=127

Now let me tell you the downside, as the owner of one. At standard .380 Auto loads, I honestly can't shoot a box of 50 standard (non +P) loads at the range. About 25 rounds is all my fingers can handle being banged up by the trigger guard during recoil. The KelTec is designed for a small hand, but people with medium-large hands can use them, with pain. I can shoot a box of 50 44 Rem Mag out of a snub nose DA revolver (with sore wrist the next day), but the KelTec kills my finger. Of course I carry the KelTec just about every day because if I ever have to use it, I don't plan on using more than 7 rounds. It is the lightest, safest (with one in the chamber) DA-only, Concealed carry pistol I have seen. Absolutely no concern about carrying with one in the chamber, no concern, even though it has no safety and no slide lockback. (I have a number of handguns, and there are few semi's I will make that statement about.) The only other downside at the moment is that .380 ammo is hard to find. I hand load, and have powder, primers and luckily I scored a bunch of cast and jacketed .380 bullets, so I am set to enjoy.

I have other concealed carry handguns, but I like the P3AT better for general carry, principally size, weight, and safety when loaded.

If you are willing to go up in size and weight the Bersa Thunder .380 is fine as is the Walther/Smith PPK. Of course if I were considering those, I would purchase an FEG PA-63 in 9mm Mak. A step up in power from .380 Auto, but still well below 38 Special or 9mm Luger. But as far as "good value" the PA-63 is a quality, reasonably light (alloy frame/steel slide -get a Wolf spring kit to lighten trigger pull a little), a solid (mostly steel or alloy) handgun, with great safety features (SA/DA that you can carry safely with one in the chamber and a decocker/safety) for about $150 to $180 if you shop for them.

Good luck and let us know what you decide on.

williamlayton · « **Reply #9 on:** May 19, 2009, 03:31:09 AM »

Been carrying a Walther for 40 years, the same one.
When I shoot it, it shoots, when I bang it around in the console--it still shoots.
Blessings

NickSS · « **Reply #10 on:** May 26, 2009, 10:57:54 PM »

I bought a Bersa Thunderer 380 about two years ago and have shot just about every kind of 380 ammo in it without a single jam. I love it. I carry it in an in the pants holster and it just disappears and I hardly know I have it on me. As for accuracy it shoots about 2 inch groups at 15 yards with most ammo tried.

Brett · « **Reply #11 on:** May 28, 2009, 02:56:43 PM »

Quote from: williamlayton on May 19, 2009, 03:31:09 AM

Been carrying a Walther for 40 years, the same one.
When I shoot it, it shoots, when I bang it around in the console--it still shoots.
Blessings

That must play heck with your console.

Rex B · « **Reply #12 on:** May 29, 2009, 04:38:53 AM »

I have more .380s than you can shake a stick at. Some sort of sickness.

I have both the Keltec .P3AT and the Ruger LCP.
Same gun, basically. The KT is rougher, which you may prefer for grip. the Ruger is more polished but also more slippery.
Either will come out and go bang reliably. If all you want is a double-action pocket pistol, you can stop reading now and go shopping.
Buy the pinky extension for at least one of the mags. Makes a big difference in comfort and control.

More expensive choices include the NAA for about $400 and the Rohrbach. Both are all-metal, a bit fatter, and blowback.
I've not shot either as they don't particularly interest me. I like slim guns with locked breeches.

My favorites are the slighty larger mini-1911s.
The only one in current production is the Sig P238, which is a direct licensed copy of the old Colt Mustang.
This is all-metal, with a 1911-style safety. Actually, it's a better safety, as you can set the safety with the hammer down, so it can't be cocked, and the slide can't move. Further, the safety actually moves the sear away from the hammer and trigger, which the 1911 does not. Just now being produced, about $450 - $600. It's a little fatter than the KT or Ruger, but it's heirloom-quality.
If you want a nice, new pocket .380, and don't mind it being slightly bigger and heavier, go look at this one if you can find it.

Older designs well worth looking at:
Colt .380s - Mustang, Mustang +2, government - all are mini-1911s, $500 - $800 used.
Star S, SS, DK etc - Excellent small pistols. The S or SS is slightly larger, but very slim. High quality. Colt copied the Star design for their .380s. $200 - $300 used.
FI Model D - Also a Star product, and the original colt Pony. Very-pocket-size, very high quality, hard to find, $350
Llama - Look for the very early or very late versions with no rib on the slide. The small-frame Llamas made before 1950 are very high quality. They are the most "to scale' miniature 1911s I have found.

All of the above are fixed breech and a pleasure to shoot.

blhof · « **Reply #13 on:** May 29, 2009, 01:52:53 PM »

My son bought a Makarov 380 and left it with me while he was in Iraq. My wife, who doesn't shoot, decided to go to the range with me one day. I brought the 380 and 100 or so rounds for it, she thought my M9 Beretta was too heavy, so I handed her the 380 and placed the target at 10 yds, she blew out the bullseye with the 3 clips of 7 rounds that I gave her and came to me for reloading. Its rough, but a lot cheaper than other offerings and seems very reliable and accurate.

Robert357 · « **Reply #14 on:** May 29, 2009, 02:42:02 PM »

A true Makarov is a very reasonable priced and reliable firearm in a small size. However, most of the East German or Russian Mak's I have seen are more expensive than a KelTec P3AT. The 9mm Mak ammo use to be a bit harder to find than .380 Auto, but now I am not so sure as .380 Ammo is almost impossible to find. I like the Hornady JHP 9mm Mak ammo as personal protection ammo as it is a bit more powerful than .380 Ammo, not much, but every little bit helps. Rather than getting a Mak .380, I would opt for the original in 9x18mm Mak ammo.

Having said that, if you want light, then the way to go in 9mm Mak is the FEG PA-63 with the alloy frame and steel slide/barrel. It is also very well priced if you shop around. It is bigger than a KelTec P3AT .380 Auto, and heavier, but less expensive and slightly more powerful. The PA-63 in 9mm Mak is also one heck of a safe firearm to carry loaded with one in the chamber. It has a DA/SA trigger with safetly/decocker.

Eastern European, military surplus 9mm Mak firearms are a heck of a value and are accurate and reliable.

Travis Morgan · « **Reply #15 on:** July 06, 2009, 09:29:19 AM »

Quote from: Lloyd Smale on May 10, 2009, 01:57:59 AM

ive got a couple ruger lcps both with crimsom trace lazers on them and there the cats ass for sticking in your pocket. I keep one in the truck and one in the jeep.

.......but for killing things........

Old Griz · « **Reply #16 on:** July 06, 2009, 03:00:38 PM »

The Kel-Tec P3AT is an iffy proposition. Half of them work, half of them don't. Folks who got the good ones love them. Those who got the bad ones don't trust them. Even if you perform the Kel-Tec "fluff and buff" you can't be sure you have a reliable gun. The only thing mine will shoot well are CCI Blazer FMJ.

After the disappointment of the Kel-Tec, we got the Ruger LCP. So far, no problems with it, but we have not run as many rounds or different loads through it as we have the Kel-Tec. It too, shoots great with the Blazer ammo.

Two .380s that have terrific track records are: 1) Sig P230, and 2) Bersa Thunderer. Both are larger than the Ruger and Kel-Tec, but both of them go "bang" when you need them to.

The other options are small pocket revolvers such as the Ruger LCR or one of the S&W Airweights in .38+P. Our two little .380s sit in the safe. I carry a S&W 638, and I might get a LCR for my wife when ever they show up at the dealer. One good thing about a revolver, they always work.

poncaguy · « **Reply #17 on:** July 08, 2009, 01:49:40 PM »

I have the Ruger LCP with the Crimson Trace, fits in one of my cell phone holsters really well. It's a very accurate pistol, bullets go where the red dot is............

williamlayton · « **Reply #18 on:** July 09, 2009, 09:01:54 PM »

Brett
Dadgum it--you know I can't communicate worth a hoot.

Blessings

drdougrx · « **Reply #19 on:** July 10, 2009, 03:28:23 AM »

Hi,

I'm also in the PPK/s crowd...carried for years. I also have Colt Mustang Pocket lite...also very nice though kinda hard to hand onto!

Old Griz · « **Reply #20 on:** July 10, 2009, 05:11:57 AM »

Doug, you are a lucky man! I haven't seen a Colt Mustang in 12-13 years, but I always wanted one. It would seem that with the .380 pocket pistol craze going on today that Colt could sure make some big sales by reintroducing that fine little gun. (. . . and a PPK/S, too!)

williamlayton · « **Reply #21 on:** July 10, 2009, 11:54:06 AM »

I had a Mustang--it was better as a boomerang.
Blessings

drdougrx · « **Reply #22 on:** July 10, 2009, 11:56:25 AM »

Thanks Griz,

Wifee and I were waiting for the ferry in eiother woods hole or falmouth, ma to take to dafodil weekend in Nantucket maybe 10 years ago (boring). As we waited, I saw a small gun shop and told her that I was going to go and browse and she said go ahead. In the back of the case was this brand new Colt Mustang and the owner said it's not the mustang, it's the pocket lite...even better. Paid $330 on the spot!

drdougrx · « **Reply #23 on:** July 10, 2009, 11:58:20 AM »

Williammmmmm.......it's much better than my beretta jetfire...but then again....so's a boomerang!

teamnelson · « **Reply #24 on:** July 11, 2009, 08:39:55 AM »

+1 on a Bersa. Have two tone that fits in a pocket holster nicely, and puts em all in a pie plate across a wash.

Robert357 · « **Reply #25 on:** July 11, 2009, 09:03:24 AM »

Quote from: Old Griz on July 06, 2009, 03:00:38 PM

The Kel-Tec P3AT is an iffy proposition. Half of them work, half of them don't. Folks who got the good ones love them. Those who got the bad ones don't trust them. Even if you perform the Kel-Tec "fluff and buff" you can't be sure you have a reliable gun. The only thing mine will shoot well are CCI Blazer FMJ.

Sorry about your experience with teh P3AT. My experience with the P3AT has been wonderful and I didn't do a "Fluff and buff." I have heard that the new ones past a certain serial number no longer require that. I did however, do one thing a little different. I was advised by the gunshop owner to "grease certain parts" on the P3AT not just oil it.

I have been using a Molly grease that helps smooth things out for the long run on the rails and certain parts of the slide and trigger. I have had no FTF or FTE failures and I regrease it periodically plus after each time I go to the range.

I have heard that the "fluff and buff" is critical to the earlier P3AT models, but many handguns require 200 or more "break in periods." Also my feeling is that until you have shoot a few hundred rounds, you probably aren't totally knowledgable about how a firearm operates and where it shoots, along we being sure that the ammo you have selected with feed and extract reliably.

I am glade you have had better luck with you Ruger LCP.

As to the Bersa in .380, I would rather purchase a FEG PA-63 in 9mm Mak, as they are almost the same vissually and size wise and the FEG is less expensive to buy and has a bit more kick.

As to pocket revolvers, I have a Taurus UL in 38 Special that I also am partial to, but it just seems awful "thick" to pocket carry. MY P3AT in a small homemade pocket holster fits in my pocket very nicely along with an extra magazine.

Brett · « **Reply #26 on:** July 25, 2009, 02:41:56 AM »

Last year I came across a minty SS Colt Pocket Lite at my local GS. Don't recall exactly what he was asking for it but think it was around 4 bills. I was sooo tempted. Not that I really wanted a .380 but it just looked so cool, like a witch doctor had got hold of a 1911 and shrunk it down to about 1/3 it's original size.

Old Griz · « **Reply #27 on:** July 25, 2009, 01:09:45 PM »

Quote from: Brett on July 25, 2009, 02:41:56 AM

like a witch doctor had got hold of a 1911 and shrunk it down to about 1/3 it's original size.

That's exactly how it was done!

Quote from: Robert357 on July 11, 2009, 09:03:24 AM

I have heard that the "fluff and buff" is critical to the earlier P3AT models, but many handguns require 200 or more "break in periods."

With all the different brands and types of ammo we tried, we put at least 550 rounds through it. The only thing that would extract without jamming was the Blazer FMJ. I guess that's not bad because I believe that the problem with most mouse guns is too much expansion before reaching a vital organ. I would rather go with the penetration from a .380 FMJ than a wound that doesn't kill.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot26.htm

williamlayton · « **Reply #28 on:** July 26, 2009, 01:59:40 PM »

I have carried the old Stainless PPK for 35 years and IT did take a break in period of 5 or 600 rounds for me too trust it.
The Colt was a vicious animal. It felt good but it wouldn't stay on a paper plate.
Now I am not the worlds renown "dead eye dick" but at 25 yards the guy in the next booth was about as much in harms way as that plate was.
I traded it for something that has since gone away.
Blessings

VARMONTER · « **Reply #29 on:** July 27, 2009, 07:05:46 PM »

Pocket pistols certainly have their place.
I have an NAA guardian in 32 acp.(It's a bear to shoot)I would rather shoot(and carry) my Sig p-239 in 40 sw.And most of the time i do.But the pkt pistols have their place.I would rather have my 32 acp then none at all.
The .380 is a bigger bang then a 32 acp and i have never shot one in a .380 pocket gun.But I can't imagine it being a very pleasant range gun.(in the lcp or keltec type of platform) But of course it's not designed to be a range gun either.
It's designed to put in your pocket when you can't carry something bigger.
So I am pleased with my Naa. (North American Arms) They make a fine gun and I am sure their 380 is of the same quality. If you have the bucks Seecamp makes a fine weapon also. But the wait time on his .380
is a downpoint. The Ruger LCP is all the rage right now and I am sure it's the cause of the .380 ammo shortage and subsequent high ammo costs.(that and the fear buying panic that's going on now.)
So if you don't reload It is something to take into consideration about the .380 (finding ammo that is).

Not meaning to discourage you.The .380 is the cats meow of pkt guns. Just alot of things to consider about that particular cartridge right now.