cleaning an old Swede

[koivu]

I have an old Swede (1917) that was partly sporterized when I got it so I completed the job.  I've been trying out different factory loads with it (There aren't too many as you now).  I will start reloading for it pretty soon.  The bore is fairly dark and I have been trying to clean it as best I can.  I just used some Pro Shot copper solvent in it but the patches still come out pretty dark when damp.  I know some rifles shoot fairly well in spite of less than perfect bores.  This rifle shoots well enough for hunting, but I'd like to improve on its accuracy.  Do you guys figure I'm wasting my time trying to clean the bore out as much as possible?

[Swampman]

Some older Marines suggested I try Brasso in an 03A3 that I was working on.  The bore cleaned up really nice and eventually looked fine after some shooting.  Don't use brass brushes with it unless you want to toss them when you're finished.

[Oldtimer]

Many gunsmiths will electroclean the bore for a small fee and it will save you a lot of elbow grease and time. Then you can burn some of that expensive ammo and be sure of the results.

[Mikey]

I have also used Windex (with Ammonia) on old mil-surp bores and it seems to really help clean them up.  First I use GI bore cleaners and brushes to get the loose gunk (powder residue) out, then saw it dry, then soak some patches with Windex and run them down the bore until I am sure it got a good soak, the use a clean or new brush, more windex patches and finally dry patch it until it comes up nice and shiny.

You need to understand that over the years there has probably been a lot of copper fouling buildup in that bore.  It is darn near microscopic and not something you can detect easily by eyeball, but it is there, so you are not likely to remove it all in one cleaning session.  And a lot of guys forget that hunting ammo is also jacketed and will cause copper fouling buildup just like mil-spec ammo, so the guy who shoves his huntin' rifle back in the closet after only firing 3-5 shots that year isn't really doing himself and favors.  jmtcw.

[anweis]

You can do your own electric bore cleaner for less than $10. They are amazingly effective.
http://www.surplusrifle.com/reviews/copperout/index.asp

Mine is a steel rod wrapped with electric insulation tape in 3 places to prevent the rod from touching the bore and the rifle, a finger cut off from a rubber glove taped over the muzzle, two wires, a 9v battery, and straight household ammonia.     

[coyotejoe]

.  And a lot of guys forget that hunting ammo is also jacketed and will cause copper fouling buildup just like mil-spec ammo, so the guy who shoves his huntin' rifle back in the closet after only firing 3-5 shots that year isn't really doing himself and favors.  jmtcw.
[/quote]

I may well be mistaken, I have been mistaken a time or two, but I don't think the Swedish military ammo was ever jacketed in the common copper or gilding metal alloys. All of the mil-spec ammo I've seen looked like German silver or some very similar alloy. Does anyone know for sure? But also, all of the Swedish bores I've seen were spotless, perhaps showing noticeable wear but no crud or pitting. The Swedish military was big on proper cleaning, so I suspect the damage occurred after the old girl retired to civilian life.

[S.S.]

it's called a Cupro-Nickle jacket and there is enough copper in the mix
of nickel and copper to leave fouling from the copper.

[1911crazy]

If the rifle is a tac driver why should i clean the copper residue from the bore?

Example;  My rem 700 in 338win mag at 100yds i can put two rounds thru the same hole if i do my part.  Should i remove the copper residue from the bore?

On my mossberg 30-06 i can shoot nickle sized groups all day long at 100yds.  I can see the copper fouling in the bore should i clean it out?

My thoughts are if the gun is that accurate why rock the boat to make the bore squeeky clean.  If it ain't broke why fix it?

I take my hunting rifles out to check the zero in the fall before hunting with them.  Then if the sighting in is good i leave the barrels dirty after firing a round or two to check the sight in.  After hunting season is all over around christmas the gun/ barrels get cleaned and oiled up till next fall.  I don't hunt with oily bores nor touch the bores after the sightin.  If i have a long shot i depend on the accuracy being there.

[tmccray45]

Why can't you draw a bath, tell the old Swede to get in, throw in a cake of Ivory soap, and have the old Swede clean his own bad self???

[Frank46]

1911, if I may offer some suggestions. There are plenty of good bore cleaning fluids and compounds on the market. Having said that, when I get a new/old rifle or handgun I clean the bore thoroughly to remove any copper or powder fouling. It may take as long as a couple days or longer to remove the fouling. I don't mean its takes all days maybe just a few hours. I have found that used rifles or handguns aren't cleaned as well as they should be. I have used remclean, iosso, hoppe's, butch's and auto rubbing and polishing compound to clean bores. Fouling wether it be copper or powder if not cleaned is cumulative. That is it builds up layer upon layer. It also can lead to pitting and corrosion under the layers even if not using corrosive ammunition. And at some point due to improper cleaning accuracy can go south in a big hurry. I have a krag that I bought quite a few years ago. When I first started cleaning it I thought the bore was shot. Actually years of accumulative copper and powder fouling were allowed to build up. I swore that each time I cleaned it the rifling was getting deeper. The copper and cupro nickle fouling was cleaned out after a period of a couple weeks. I once bought a shotgun that appeared to have never been cleaned. There was enough lead in that barrel to start my own mine. I sincerely hope that you don't regard the above as critism regarding the way you clean. Just offering some suggestions based on 40 plus years of cleaning firearms. frank

[30-30man]

I can tell you from experience, the home made electronic cleaner works great.  I used an old cell phone charger.  It brought all kinds of crude out the barrel of an old Mosin.  You could see the copper and lead just bubbling out of it.  I had about $3 in mine.  The most expensive thing was the steel rod. $3 at Lowe's  It saved me days of scrubbing and a lot of money on solvent.  I can't believe everyone doesn't do it.

[anweis]

I can tell you from experience, the home made electronic cleaner works great.  I used an old cell phone charger.  It brought all kinds of crude out the barrel of an old Mosin.  You could see the copper and lead just bubbling out of it.  I had about $3 in mine.  The most expensive thing was the steel rod. $3 at Lowe's  It saved me days of scrubbing and a lot of money on solvent.  I can't believe everyone doesn't do it.

The great advantage of electric bore cleaners is that (if you don't exagerate and over do it) they will clean the bore without aggressive chemicals and without mechanical damage from brushing. They just lift the copper and lossen the crud without wearing out the bore. A lot of barrells are damaged by brushing back and forth.

[usherj]

An excellent bore guide can be found at Kebco LLC. It was made at Carl Gustaf for the rifle and snaps neatly in place of the bolt. That will address the main wear issues when cleaning from the breech. I picked up a retired snipe last week (sporter stock) and was concerned about the dark bore until I used some shooters choice on a 7mm brush. Copper is not the only culprit, you also have to deal with carbon deposits as well. Now it is nice and bright. Good luck

[usherj]

Correction - I used a 270 brush, not 7mm.

[TNyoteboy]

I used a mop and Gunslick bore foam on my M1 Garand and the mop came out the deepest purple I have ever seen. Looked pretty good after that.