Author Topic: hornady fpb  (Read 2598 times)

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Offline simplicity

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hornady fpb
« on: May 14, 2009, 11:48:11 AM »
Has anyone try'd the Hornday FPB bullets? I grabbed a few pack and haven't had the chance to try them yet. Just wondered what results others had.

Offline Davemuzz

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Re: hornady fpb
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2009, 01:40:44 PM »
I can't speak about shooting 'em out of an in-line, but I've been shootin 'em out of my Marlin lever. This first pic is from 100 yards. The holes south of the horizontal line were put there when I was adjusting the Williams peep sight. Then I got it "wired" and put the next three near the center.




Then I went out to the 200 yard target. You can't see my first hit as it is just below the picture, but I wanted to verify the bullet drop from 100 to 200 yards. I then adjusted the Williams peep again, and put the next 4 shots as you see them here:



So, accuracy? Yeah!!! These are one darn accurate bullets! 

Offline DEACONLLB

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Re: hornady fpb
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2009, 02:50:42 PM »
I was also wondering about them as wally world had a closeout on them and I picked up some but have not shot them yet.
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Offline alsaqr

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Re: hornady fpb
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2009, 04:02:29 PM »
Have been shooting the Hornady 350 grain .50 caliber FPB in My Encore since last fall.   With 140 grains of 2F Goex Pinnacle groups are about 2.5-3" at 100 yards.  Have killed several hogs with that bullet, it is a sure fire one shot hog killer.   

Offline simplicity

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Re: hornady fpb
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2009, 08:07:45 AM »
Finally got out to the range to shoot the FPB's for myself. Ok all I used was 150gr. charges of triple seven (granulated I don't care for pellets) in my 209x 50 encore. (2-7 nikon prostaff) According to the package it says not to clean in between shots which I've never been a fan of doing. so for the first group I didn't clean in between shots and shot a 2.5 inch group (3 shots) at 100 yards. I then shot another group while cleaning in between shots and got a 1.5 inch group (3 shots). I'll have to get back top the range to to try different powder weights. Loading was. quite eas.y either cleaning or not cleaning between shots. They do load much easier then my shockwaves (250gr.) but my shockwaves do shoot better usually get 3/4 inch at 100 with a 150gr. (I shot a deer last year with that load, went through both shoulders at 150yrds) Cleaning seemed to be a bit easier I feel do to the FPB being coper plated rather then the shockwaves in the plastic sabot.  So far they have my approval and will probly be what I'm hunting with next Black powder season. I hope this bit of info helps out anyone thinking about trying them.

Offline john keyes

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Re: hornady fpb
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2009, 11:09:55 AM »
If you don't mind a few questions, they look  like a jacketed ballistic tip, is the tip soft like a Leverlution bullet?

-also, do you not use these with a sabot?  do they engrave the rifling?
-what does FPB stand for?
Though taken from established manufacturers' sources and presumed to be safe please do not use any load that I have posted. Please reference Hogdon, Lyman, Speer and others as a source of data for your own use.

Offline alsaqr

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Re: hornady fpb
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2009, 01:54:25 PM »
The tip is somewhat soft.  It is not hard plastic like the tips on the old SST/Shockwave bullets. 

FPB=Flex Tip Projectile Blackpowder.

They are full caliber without a sabot.  Yes, they do engrave the rifling.  The guns with rifling all the way to the muzzle are harder to load than those guns with QLA. 

Offline Buckskins & Black Powder

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Re: hornady fpb
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2009, 05:02:57 PM »
just so you know, 150gr loose triple 7 is an over  load.   120gr loose T7 = 3 pellets

Must be one heck of a kicking load with that big bullet and powder charge :o

Offline simplicity

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Re: hornady fpb
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2009, 02:10:18 AM »
Well if it is a over load then hornady is over loading it because 150 gr. of loose triple seven is getting me a average of 1870fps according to my chronograph, plus the Hornady site says to use three 50 gr. pellets or 150 gr of triple seven. Also I've never heard of 120grs loose of triple seven equals three 50gr pellets mostly since you get a high chamber pressure with the pelets due to the bit of space from in between the pellets along with the hole that goes down through the center of them. Pellets are no where near as consistant as loose powder hence the reason why I don't use them.

Offline Buckskins & Black Powder

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Re: hornady fpb
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2009, 07:20:16 AM »
you need to read your owners manual, almost no muzzleloader is rated for 150gr loose T7.  T7 loose is 15% hotter than Pyrodex or real black powder.

There was a chart on another forum that listed the differences.  For example it takes 95gr pyrodex rs to equal the power of 80gr T7.

Offline AndyHass

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Re: hornady fpb
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2009, 08:42:54 AM »
Well if it is a over load then hornady is over loading it because 150 gr. of loose triple seven is getting me a average of 1870fps according to my chronograph, plus the Hornady site says to use three 50 gr. pellets or 150 gr of triple seven. Also I've never heard of 120grs loose of triple seven equals three 50gr pellets mostly since you get a high chamber pressure with the pelets due to the bit of space from in between the pellets along with the hole that goes down through the center of them. Pellets are no where near as consistant as loose powder hence the reason why I don't use them.

You are actually incorrect here.  150gr 777 pellets are NOT equivalent to 150gr loose 777.  Due to the increased power, the pellets are "under-charged", ie 150gr 777 pellets are in fact a power-equivalent of 150gr Pyrodex pellets, not 150gr loose 777.

150gr loose 777 is technically over-charge in every factory gun I know of.  Max charge is really in the neighborhood of 120gr 777.

Offline Busta

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Re: hornady fpb
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2009, 05:33:33 PM »
simplicity, bigblock 455, and AndyHass,


Well, you are all wrong, and right.

Knight has recommended 150 grains charges of 777 loose powder with up to 300 gr bullets in their .50 calibers, but not with as heavy of a bullet as the 350 gr FPB. The .52 caliber has recommended loads for up to 375gr bullets with up to 150 gr loose 777. So it may be an overload with that bullet in his rifle, but not all bullets in all rifles. I'm not saying that it would be a good load, just an approved load from Knight.

I don't know what the Encore 209x50 owners manual states as a maximum recommended load.

I also agree with Andy and FG, 777 powder and 777 pellets are not equivalents for each other. The 777 pellets are formed to be the equivalent to equal charges of Black powder. For 777 loose powder, charges need to be reduced 15% for FFg, and 20% for FFFg.

150 gr 777 pellets are equivalent to 127.5 grains 777 FFg, or 120 gr 777 FFFg.

Quote
Recommended Loads

Knight Rifles are designed to perform best between 90 and 150 grains of Black Powder
FFg, Pyrodex® RS, Select, T7, Loose Powder or Pellets.
maximum recommended load
for specific models.

! WARNING Never use smokeless powder. It can cause your muzzleloader to explode.

When determining the best load for your Knight Rifle, follow these steps:

1. Determine which game you intend to hunt and what bullet weight you intend to use.
(see page 11)
! WARNING Knight Rifles does not recommend the use of non-saboted lead
projectiles. These bullets can easily be moved from the powder charge. This will
result in an obstructed barrel, and, upon firing, could cause an explosion. If you
choose or legally have to shoot non-saboted lead projectiles, always check that
your projectile is properly seated immediately before priming and firing.

2.  Sight in your rifle. Start with 100 grains of Black Powder FFg, Pyrodex® RS, Select,
T7, Loose Powder or Pellets. If you don’t achieve the desired results, go up or down
in 10 grain increments and try sighting again.
                                                       (page 10)


Recommended Loads

Recommended Loads for Rifles

The following chart is intended to be used as a reference to assist you in determining what Knight bullet to use for what game.
It is for reference only. You should ultimately decide what works best for you. All bullets are assumed to be in Knight's High Pressure Sabots™.

GAME SIZE BULLET WEIGHT LOAD POWDER TYPE

Antelope, Whitetail, Mule Deer

.45 cal = 175, 195 Red Hots 120 - 150 Loose or Pelleted Powder
.50 cal = 250, 300 Red Hots 100 - 150 Loose or Pelleted Powder
.50 cal = 245, 285 Spitzer Boat Tails 100 - 150 Loose or Pelleted Powder
.52 cal = 275, 350, 375 Red Hots 130 - 150 Loose Powder ONLY
.50 cal = 310 Lead 90 - 120 Loose or Pelleted Powder
.50 cal = 260 Jacketed Hollow Point 90 - 120 Loose or Pelleted Powder
.50 cal = 250, 290 Polymer Tip 100-150 Loose or Pelleted Powder

Elk, Caribou, Moose

.50 cal = 250, 300 Red Hots 100 - 150 Loose or Pelleted Powder
.52 cal = 275, 350, 375 Red Hots 130 - 150 Loose Powder ONLY
.50 cal = 285 Spitzer Boat Tails 100 - 150 Loose or Pelleted Powder
.50 cal = 310 Lead 90 - 120 Loose or Pelleted Powder
.50 cal = 300 Jacketed Hollow Point 90 - 120 Loose or Pelleted Powder
.50 cal = 250, 290 Polymer Tip 100-150 Loose or Pelleted Powder

Big & Dangerous Game

.52 cal = 350, 375 Red Hots 130 - 150 Loose Powder ONLY

1)Knight Rifles are designed to perform best with Black Powder FFg, Pyrodex® RS, “Select” & Triple 7, loose or pellets.
2) Smaller bullet weights will provide flatter trajectory, but may not be as accurate as the heavier, longer bullets.
3) Heavier bullets will give better penetration and more energy transfer and are more suited to heavier powder charges.

* Chart was produced using input from our customer's hunts and from results obtained by Knight Personnel.

                                                        (Page 11)


Click on the first link to the owners manual, go to page 10 and 11. You will have to turn your head to the right for page 11 in the PDF.

http://images.ebsco.com/pob/knightrifles/catalog/8_07_complete_web.pdf

http://www.knightrifles.com/instructionmanual/default
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Offline Reese

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Re: hornady fpb
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2009, 04:24:21 AM »
Busta,
"For 777 loose powder, charges need to be reduced 25% for FFg, and 20% for FFFg."

If we are speaking in volume measurements, are these numbers reversed by mistake? FFFg will provide a bit more energy over the same volume of FFg.

Your example, "150 gr 777 pellets are equivalent to 127.5 grains 777 FFg, or 120 gr 777 FFFg." seems to support
that charges need to be reduced more (25%) for FFFg and less (20%) for FFg.

Offline Busta

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Re: hornady fpb
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2009, 06:02:16 AM »
Busta,
"For 777 loose powder, charges need to be reduced 25% for FFg, and 20% for FFFg."

If we are speaking in volume measurements, are these numbers reversed by mistake? FFFg will provide a bit more energy over the same volume of FFg.

Your example, "150 gr 777 pellets are equivalent to 127.5 grains 777 FFg, or 120 gr 777 FFFg." seems to support
that charges need to be reduced more (25%) for FFFg and less (20%) for FFg.


Reese,

Thanks for bringing that to my attention, it was a typo, the 25% for FFg should have been 15%, sorry. :-[ I went back and edited the information. I must have fat-fingered the 2 when I was trying to type the 1. Maybe I need a proof reader? :D

Just when I thought I could type without looking.  :-\ Kinda like, "look mom no hands"! ;D


This is what that section should have said, and what it now says.

Quote
For 777 loose powder, charges need to be reduced 15% for FFg, and 20% for FFFg.

150 gr 777 pellets are equivalent to 127.5 grains 777 FFg, or 120 gr 777 FFFg.

Sorry, and thanks again Reese for pointing that out.  ;)


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Offline simplicity

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Re: hornady fpb
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2009, 09:43:56 AM »
Been doing alot of searching to find the reference chart of levels. What I did find is on the Thompson center site in the manual it states "up to 150grains of black powder or black powder substitute" On the Hodgon site it states in no way triple seven should be used in anyway shape or form in a charge of more then 100 grains in either pellets or granular.
 Also the topic of the thread is  about the bullets not the powder.

Offline simplicity

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Re: hornady fpb
« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2009, 09:52:08 AM »
just so you know, 150gr loose triple 7 is an over  load.   120gr loose T7 = 3 pellets

Must be one heck of a kicking load with that big bullet and powder charge :o

And to answer about it being hard kicking it's accually more pleasant to shoot then the 250gr. shockwave with the same charge behind it. Doesn't really make sense to me why other then the shockwaves have more friction going down the barrel.  According to the chrono the loads out of my muzzle loader pretty much duplicate my 500 smith loads out of my 8 3/8 revolver barrel. Recoil of the 250gr. shock waves is about the same as my 338 win. mag. Also loading pressure of the FPB is about half of the shockwaves.

Offline Buckskins & Black Powder

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Re: hornady fpb
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2009, 04:58:29 PM »
I agree that the topic is about a bullet, but when someting pops up like using to much powder, Safety will always be the #1 interest of our members here.

We're just trying to help and keep you safe is all.

Offline simplicity

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Re: hornady fpb
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2009, 02:19:25 AM »
 I understand being about safety, I've been shooting the 150 grain charges for the past three years in the same gun and never had a issue what so ever and this is the first I've ever heard about triple seven being dangerous to use in 150 charges in granular form. Like I said before been shooting it for a while now and I'm getting the correct velocitys that the "companys" say I should be getting according to my Chrono graph. An truthfully if it is really a true blue case of being dangerous It should be stated on ever triple seven add that was ever produced. Mainly because someone would be sueing every other day about it.  I'm not one to beleive every article I read done by some writer, mostly because after reading the majority of their articles I can understand how the heck they got a job writing for a magazine or paper in the first place. I take the results from the targets I shoot, the data I collect and the bullets I recover as my information to go by.

Offline Busta

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Re: hornady fpb
« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2009, 04:18:12 AM »
simplicity,

I shot some FPB's the other day an posted a full report in another forum, I will give you a "snipet" from theat report. What velocity are you getting with them, I am not sure how well the fron of that bullet will hold up over 150 gr charges. I have read up to 110 grain charges taking Elk, but nothing higher than that. They really shoot well out of my NEF, not quite as good in the Knight, because it has a sharper crown IMO. They really load nice in the QLA equiped rifles, and even my NEF with it's for lack of a better word "tapered crown". I have other targets as well from past shooting, but I can run them all through the same hole with 80 gr BH209. Enjoy!

"Since I was going to be just shooting conicals and FPB's over a chronograph testing this new o-ring I decided to shoot from my portable bench at 50 yards. I won't bore you with the details, as they can be read off the pics. I did shoot a total of 34 shots with perfect igniton on all 34, I did get a couple strange chrono readings but most loads did very well. This is the range that we like to call elk into, all 34 shots would have been deadly as long as the bullet did it's part.

The first target was started with a 460 No Excuse, the X was my fouler in the center of the center bull. The remainder of the bulls were shot with the Hornady FPB with increasing charges. Notice how well the 80 gr load does with that bullet, I can shoot that load into one hole all day. I got a little ahead of myself when I started writing down the shot string speeds, but I caught it after I only screwed up two. After shooting the first group I was loading the FPB, I promptly lifted my rifle straight up ramming the scope into the bench.   ::)  I think it survived but might have changed my POI a little bit.






"
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Offline simplicity

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Re: hornady fpb
« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2009, 07:51:43 AM »
Busta I got an average of 1870 fps with a deviation total of 40 fps 26" barrel. Like I sated earlier I still am going to mess around with some different weight charges to see how much accuracy increases  and compare it to drop in velocity. I'm a bullet head beyond beleif and I love this kinda exsperimenting. We don't have elk up here in Maine I just hunt whitetail up here and the areas I mainly hunt is unlike the norm up here and my shots are usually beyond 100 yards. Where most shots up here are below 50 yards. Hence the reason I work with the heavier charges to get the trajectory.
  I hope to bring some water jugs with me to the range in my next outing and try to get some recovered bullets after shot into water.