Author Topic: BLR 358 Win. (Read 10354 times)

dpe.ahoy · « **on:** May 15, 2009, 05:32:41 PM »

New Cabelas just opened up here in Billings, MT and since one of my sons works there, I got in last Monday. Grand opening was Thursday and special invites went out to people with Cabela credit cards for Tues or Wed. Anyway, when in there Monday night, I spyed a BLR 358 on the used rack. $799.99. Very good condition, held it, drooled, ect.

Could have bought it and got my sons emp. disc. but have 2 rifles ordered and was not sure when they would be in, so put it back

. One rifle came in, other they have no idea when it will come but not in near future, so had my son go back in and put it on Lay-away if it's still there tonight. He said 3 guys were looking at it when he went in, said they would be back for it and when they walked away, he got it!

She will get to be with my 7mm-08 BLR soon, they can talk about the good times they had and the great time to come.

DP

smong2000 · « **Reply #1 on:** May 16, 2009, 03:41:22 PM »

I got a minty Jap. steel receiver BLR in .358 a couple months ago in a local shop. I wasn't thinking I wanted another one but it was such a deal i couldn't pass it up, - $495 with a Leupold Vari-X 3 1.5-5 scope and case

. It has become my favorite rifle real fast. I worked up a load with FTX 200 gr bullets (47 grs. H322 in fireformed RP .308 brass) that prints 1 hole at 50 yds and stayed just over an inch at 200yds. Totally amazing IMO for a short lever rifle and the complete opposite of a previous BLR I owned in .308 that I couldn't get to shoot better that 2.5 MOA. I found that my .358 has a very short throat so be careful with loading for it, you can jam the FTX bullets into the rifling while still keeping them short enough to feed in the magazine and get some wicked high pressure at sub max loads

.

dpe.ahoy · « **Reply #2 on:** May 17, 2009, 05:21:41 AM »

Thanks for the info on the short throat, I'll check for that when I get it out of Cabelas. Sounds like you should have worn a mask on your deal! The scope used is worth 1/2 of what you paid or more. Can't wait to see how mine will shoot, looks like IMR 3031 might make a good powder as well. I have the same scope loose that you got on your BLR and am thinking of putting it on my 7mm-08 BLR and pulling the Nikon 1.5X 4.5 off the 7mm and putting it on the 358. Not much difference in them really, but gives me an excuse to go resight in the 7mm.

DP

Rangr44 · « **Reply #3 on:** May 17, 2009, 05:36:26 AM »

You'll like that early .358, if it's anything like my 1971 model.

BTW - YMMV, but you MAY need a small base die set, if yours has a minimum/tight chamber like mine does, to get reliable chambering.
Without using it, my regular full-length resized reloads wouldn't fully chamber - the levergun just doesn't have the camming power of say, a boltgun.

.

Bigeasy · « **Reply #4 on:** May 17, 2009, 06:10:48 AM »

They are a great rifle, and the 358 win is a very under rated round. I own one of the original pre-81's in 358 I bought in 1977 I believe. All I could afford at the time was a Tasco World Class 1X5 scope. That rifle has accounted for who knows how many deer, 2 black bear, a moose, and a ton of miles thru the woods. It shoots about 1 1/4 inch at 100 yards with speer 200 grn pointed soft points at about 2550 fps, and year after year keeps its zero. Without a doubt, one of my favorite rifles. I don't want to list specific loads, but the 358 win works well with reduced loads and hard cast bullets, as well as jacket handgun bullets for practice. I am sure you will enjoy your new rifle. The BLR's are often over-looked by hunters wanting a modern rifle. They look "old fashined", but have strong, modern lock up, and very good accuracy and balance.

Larry

Harry Snippe · « **Reply #5 on:** May 19, 2009, 07:21:55 AM »

Quote from: Rangr44 on May 17, 2009, 05:36:26 AM

You'll like that early .358, if it's anything like my 1971 model.

BTW - YMMV, but you MAY need a small base die set, if yours has a minimum/tight chamber like mine does, to get reliable chambering.
Without using it, my regular full-length resized reloads wouldn't fully chamber - the levergun just doesn't have the camming power of say, a boltgun.

.

I had a light weight 358 BLR . Had it back for a timing problem , then it would not take full house loads with out the lever sticking the first quarter inch after firing a round , It sure was a dissapointment after having had the older steel recievered BLR before. Had the rifle two years , and in shop for three quarters of that time , sealed it's fate and traded it in.
Heard through the lines that a few shooters on the forum too had timing problems with the new rifle .

How ever the two BLR 's never needed a small base die , so wait before you buy one ,
The older 308 was a good gun and regret ever selling it . Have not found one another like it .

The 358 Cartridge is a good round . In central Ontario there is almost a cult shooting these rifles in mixed farms and bush .

You never hear of a steel reciever BLR in 358 W for sale . People here keep them.

I think now a Ruger Hawkeye might be more suitable than the "New BLR ", because you can load to a highter pressure . ( two or three gr.s in the case) makes a differance With this smal case ,In the light weight BLR, I doubt if I could load up much more over a warm 35 Rem. load .I would compare it more to the 356 W

I now wear a bolt in 338 Federal which compairs to the 358W , but might be a little flatter shotting , but have nothing negative to say about the 358 W cartridge . It is a good one .

Hoping here you get a good one
Happy

BlackWolf · « **Reply #6 on:** May 19, 2009, 03:35:53 PM »

I also have a BLR 358 and love it - its a 2006 stainless steel/gray laminate stock but it is currently back in the factory.

Since it is mentioned in this post, can someone explain fireforming to me? I read once where someone shot .308 shells through their .358 to fireform them. Im not sure that sounds safe and I have read where fireforming can be done other ways. What do you reccomend?

smong2000 · « **Reply #7 on:** May 20, 2009, 05:18:49 AM »

I guess I brought it up so I'll give you my take based on reading and limited personal experience. I will not say that it is the best or safest thing to do but so far I've shot up 4 boxes of .308 in my BLR to get my cases for reloading. Pressure is very low based on how they 'poop' and aside from being dirty my rifle has not suffered that I can see and is super accurate.

I would love to hear if there is a better way than loading up light loads with my cheapest bullets and firing them into a bank. I've tried RCBS and Lee dies and can't get reasonable brass by sizing alone. They always seem to be asymetrical when done and i lose about 30% to crushing.

Don't base your decision on my experience, Google it for yourself - lots of opinions out there.

Harry Snippe · « **Reply #8 on:** May 20, 2009, 08:29:37 AM »

Quote from: smong2000 on May 20, 2009, 05:18:49 AM

I guess I brought it up so I'll give you my take based on reading and limited personal experience. I will not say that it is the best or safest thing to do but so far I've shot up 4 boxes of .308 in my BLR to get my cases for reloading. Pressure is very low based on how they 'poop' and aside from being dirty my rifle has not suffered that I can see and is super accurate.

I would love to hear if there is a better way than loading up light loads with my cheapest bullets and firing them into a bank. I've tried RCBS and Lee dies and can't get reasonable brass by sizing alone. They always seem to be asymetrical when done and i lose about 30% to crushing.

Don't base your decision on my experience, Google it for yourself - lots of opinions out there.

I never had much problems resizing the brass from 308 to 358. I found that you crush cases when too much pressure is applied to the very top of the case .
So I tried a Lyman M die which slighty flared the case ( which was used for cast loads )would prepare the cases to be steped up to 358 with ease . Just use a bit of case lub before steping the cases up. This works great for 338 F brass also .
Guess you could use a mid 357 die or the lee flare die to do the same . It is the slight flare that your after . Brass sized this way produced perfect cases for me every time .

BlackWolf · « **Reply #9 on:** May 20, 2009, 01:46:49 PM »

I have a few hundred cases of new .358 win brass laying around - does this need formed in some way? I'm new to reloading and I've just been resizing, plopping in a primer, some power, sit a bullet on top and shoot it. Do these need to be formed in some way first?

Bearcat 74 · « **Reply #10 on:** May 20, 2009, 03:07:48 PM »

Blackwolf, that's the way I feed my .358 BLR and it says thank you sir, may I have another.

smong2000 · « **Reply #11 on:** May 21, 2009, 06:27:26 AM »

Quote from: BlackWolf on May 20, 2009, 01:46:49 PM

I have a few hundred cases of new .358 win brass laying around - does this need formed in some way? I'm new to reloading and I've just been resizing, plopping in a primer, some power, sit a bullet on top and shoot it. Do these need to be formed in some way first?

The fireforming is about making 358 brass out of 308 brass. You are just fine doing what you have been if you have a bunch of real brass...you lucky dog

never had much problems resizing the brass from 308 to 358. I found that you crush cases when too much pressure is applied to the very top of the case .
So I tried a Lyman M die which slighty flared the case ( which was used for cast loads )would prepare the cases to be steped up to 358 with ease . Just use a bit of case lub before steping the cases up. This works great for 338 F brass also .
Guess you could use a mid 357 die or the lee flare die to do the same . It is the slight flare that your after . Brass sized this way produced perfect cases for me every time .
reply from Harry

That sounds like the best way to do it. Thanks

dpe.ahoy · « **Reply #12 on:** May 30, 2009, 05:21:32 AM »

Just got my order from Midway yesterday with 100 cases and a set of dies for the 358. No body had had anything for the 358 around here. That is from Cabelas, Sportsmans Warehouse, 2 Shiptons Big R and a Scheels as well as a bunch of pawn shopes and other smaller gun stores. Here in Montana you can usually find anything you need, we tend to have more guns per person than other states so the supply is pretty good. Now to go pick up the BLR and get ready to sight her in. DP

BlackWolf · « **Reply #13 on:** May 31, 2009, 03:17:08 AM »

My BLR is on it's way back from the factory, it should be here in the early part of this week. I'll keep ya'll updated with the repairs and how it shoots now!

Harry Snippe · « **Reply #14 on:** May 31, 2009, 06:50:35 AM »

Quote from: BlackWolf on May 31, 2009, 03:17:08 AM

My BLR is on it's way back from the factory, it should be here in the early part of this week. I'll keep ya'll updated with the repairs and how it shoots now!

Hope this works out for you .They sure are nice rifles.

Was it sent back with a timing issue , or were the cases sticking momentary apon exstraction ? The first time I sent mine back , the hammer was rubbing when the lever was brought down, then it needed to be timed , then the last issue , the case stuck momentary in the chamber apon firing , and held the lever from opening the action . the Gunsmith polished the chamber which helped , but I had enough, and traded it in.

I had a the older model with the steel reciever in 308 , Which worked fine, and as a fool traded it at a good price.

A good gun is like a woman. Let her go ,and you may never get her back!

BlackWolf · « **Reply #15 on:** May 31, 2009, 12:31:39 PM »

It was sent back for a few things, the primary one was that it stopped going bang - in the middle of hunting season this year. Also factory ammo wouldn't chamber in it - the lever was just a small fraction of an inch from closing but it wouldn't go far enough to let the hammer fall. It also is expanding the brass so far at the base that it won't run through a full length without scraping brass off after being fired once. I'm not sure that they fixed that part though. It was only there for a couple of weeks so I doubt that they did anything with the barrel/chamber, they probably just fixed the firing pin and mailed it back. To give them credit though, I'll hold my judgement and wait and see if all of that is fixed when it comes back. I originally bought this gun for bear hunting but it has quickly turned into my bear/deer/everything gun because it feels so darn good to carry and look at.

Have a great evening guys - don't forget to watch the hockey game tonight - My pens play in an hour and a half!

Harry Snippe · « **Reply #16 on:** June 01, 2009, 06:17:58 AM »

Sounds like a timing problem also . If the lever does not close then it will not fire that is the way it was made .

If the cases expand where in your shaving the brass off cases would concern me .Something is not falling into place here

If these issues are not resolved , I would not want to fire the rifle as it now stands .

I bought my BLR thinking of bear hunting , then it levered so well thought of it as a all arround gun too., then it started to "muck up"

I gave up on Browning repair , after having it for one deer season then in for repair the rest of the time for the two year period of time I owned it . I traded it in .
Had the issues been resolved I would have been very pleased with the gun.Loved the way it felt fired and carried .
From what I read in the forums I doubt if I would ever take a lightweight Browning BLR again. Know of about 10 people on the gun forums that have had these issues

Had I done it all over again , I think I would have kept the dies Etc, and bought a Hawkeye in 358. I bought a 45/70 Marlin which had issues with the bore .The new 338 ME might of been the next stop, had the rifle been introduced at the time. I looked for a older steel BLR in 308 for some time.
I finished up with a tikka in 338F.

BlackWolf · « **Reply #17 on:** June 03, 2009, 01:18:09 AM »

Well the gun made it home but no note or anything to indicate what corrections were made. I inspected the gun very thorougly upon return and the only thing that I can see is some grease inside of the bolt so maybe the firing pin was replaced or something. The hammer was falling on everything except factory loads it just wasn't doing so with enough force to break the primer 70% of the time (rough guess). Should I call them and ask what repairs were made or just take it and shoot it?

Also I keep reading how strong this action is but should i shy away from near max loads? Ive generally been using about 43 gr of 4031 for 200 gr bullets which shouldn't be anywhere near max but now im all sorts of confused about what went wrong - any thoughts on this also?

Bigeasy · « **Reply #18 on:** June 03, 2009, 02:32:36 AM »

Blackwolf-

If it were my rifle, I would call about it and ask. It almost sounds as if it is short chambered. That would account for the hammer not falling on some rounds, and the swelling you are getting at the base of your brass. That swelling would indicate the area in question is not properly supported in the chamber, and that is a serious issue from a safety standpoint. Small base dies may be needed for reloads, but any Factory round should fit without problem.

The rotary locking design of this rifle is as strong as a bolt action, and any load listed in a reloading manual is safe. Where you run into problems is that the nature of the lever action precludes the camming leverage you get with a bolt action, so a max load may be difficult to extract if there is to much brass swelling, or a rough chamber. 250's at 22-2300 fps, and 200's at 2500 fps are all you need to drop just about anything you are going to hunt in this country. Big bears might be the exception.

Larry

Harry Snippe · « **Reply #19 on:** June 03, 2009, 04:53:57 AM »

Quote from: BlackWolf on June 03, 2009, 01:18:09 AM

Well the gun made it home but no note or anything to indicate what corrections were made. I inspected the gun very thorougly upon return and the only thing that I can see is some grease inside of the bolt so maybe the firing pin was replaced or something. The hammer was falling on everything except factory loads it just wasn't doing so with enough force to break the primer 70% of the time (rough guess). Should I call them and ask what repairs were made or just take it and shoot it?

Also I keep reading how strong this action is but should i shy away from near max loads? Ive generally been using about 43 gr of 4031 for 200 gr bullets which shouldn't be anywhere near max but now im all sorts of confused about what went wrong - any thoughts on this also?

Blackwolf
Send the rifle back until your sure it is operating right . I would be pissed if I were you . Some one At Browning should hear about this . You have spent enough on this gun , that you don't need this kind of treatment . If they can't repair it properly they should offer a new gun or at least a refund. Give them a Buss on the phone explain your problem , repeat this is the second time it has been in for repair , and you soon want a gun to hunt with .If they can,t repair it then replace or refund .

Big Easy

You got one of the good guns there as viewed by the picture . Never let that one out of your Hands . As you see the new Alloy Guns have issues .Keep it well oiled and your powder dry.

Harry

smong2000 · « **Reply #20 on:** June 05, 2009, 06:14:27 AM »

Great rifles!!!

That 'lever failing to close all the way' problem is exactly what I found with my steel .358 BLR. I was using the same brass (fireformed .308 in the BLR) in 2 types of reloads, a Sierra 200 gr RN and the Hornady FTX 200 gr. I found that the short round nose closed just fine but the longer FTX wouldn't make that last 1/4" on the lever. I made up a dummy FTX round when I got home and found that it was jammed into the rifling and if I seated the bullet just a tad deeper the problem was solved. I attributed it to a very short throat on the chamber. If you reload, might be worth a try to reseat a bullet that won't close a bit deeper to see if it remedies the situation.
It may be purely coincidental, but this .358 with FTX's is about the most accurate hunting rifle I've seen. Someday i'm goint to mount a 36X scope on it to see just how good it is. With just a 1.5-5 scope, my sub-inch 100 yd groups are still same size at 200yds (I match the target to the crosshair size at each range for precision)!

Harry Snippe · « **Reply #21 on:** June 05, 2009, 02:30:50 PM »

Well first of all the rifle has to handle factory rounds period . Reloading is another topic.

When reloading you have an overal length . Yes the BLR does seem to have a short throat having loaded the 308 as well as the 358W.

When I first had my Alloy recievered BLR in 358 I was in Heaven the gun worked great . After a few box's of Factory and the start of some reloads it started to act up, where the hammer would not fully come back . the rest is History.

Blackwolf has a problem . It needs to go back to Browning .

BlackWolf · « **Reply #22 on:** June 07, 2009, 03:55:09 AM »

I haven't got to shoot the BLR since it came back from the factory. I have some FTX handloads ready but I'm thinking I might need to break down and locate a box of factory ammo to see what it does.

Harry Snippe · « **Reply #23 on:** June 10, 2009, 08:27:38 AM »

Think if I were to go though this again I would want an exchange . Either another BLR , or invest in a bolt or one of the short track Auto's.

I have heard so many stories on the forums about problems with the lite weight BLR to not trust them any more . Too bad because I too liked the BLR.

BlackWolf
I hope you will get some satifaction some where down the road with Browning .Let us know
All the best
Happy

BlackWolf · « **Reply #24 on:** June 12, 2009, 01:11:52 AM »

Harry and all,
Thank you for all of your feedback and input. I still haven't had a chance to get to the range yet but I'll post the results as soon as I do. If the BLR won't function properly I'll be contacting the factory again. If worse comes to worse I'm still in love with the 358 win - I'll just need to look at an M77 Hawkeye Stainless but the look and feel of the BLR has my heart right now so cross your fingers that range results are excpetional!

v-man · « **Reply #25 on:** June 12, 2009, 04:19:59 AM »

I had an early Belgian BLR .308 and tried to love it but . . . after each shot it was so hard to get the bolt to move that first 1/2 inch I sent it to the factory. After $200 repair bill it was still no better and as pretty as it was it just wasn't fun to shoot. Good riddance.

Harry Snippe · « **Reply #26 on:** June 12, 2009, 05:07:51 AM »

Quote from: v-man on June 12, 2009, 04:19:59 AM

I had an early Belgian BLR .308 and tried to love it but . . . after each shot it was so hard to get the bolt to move that first 1/2 inch I sent it to the factory. After $200 repair bill it was still no better and as pretty as it was it just wasn't fun to shoot. Good riddance.

According the the smith here whom is is about as old as I am , remembering Noah and the boat, had advised me "this about" the BLR. He stated that some of the older BLR's had a problem with the case sticking in the chamber too. They polished the chamber , but this would only last for a few hundred rounds .
Well that sealed the end of the lightweight after just having that done on a new gun I owned for two years and only in my box three months.

Black Wolf

Go to the Beartooth Shooters forum and look up 358 W very consistant in the rifle forum thirdpage.Beartracker bought a new Hawkeye in 358W scoped it and shows the rifle set up and some targets he shot.I am sure you would like it.

Myself I ended up with the 338F in tikka, but would have liked the 358 Hawkeye better.
Hope you can work things out

BlackWolf · « **Reply #27 on:** June 12, 2009, 01:36:26 PM »

Harry could you send me a link to that site, I can't seem to find that page.

I would love to add a hawkeye in 358 to my collection also. I'm just not sure that I could talk my wife into that. Come to think of it I'd like one of those in 257 roberts also!

Harry Snippe · « **Reply #28 on:** June 13, 2009, 06:18:15 AM »

BlackWolf
Go to Shooters forum (Web)
Then go to rifles and cartridges (subtitle)

Then to the right bottom of the first page click on page three .
Once on page three you will see 358 W every consistent by Beartracker.

We have had a Ruger in the family a long time . my wife also hunts. In that sense , I don't get much Flack!! We bought a Mark 2 new and it has always been a very good rifle accounting for a lot of moose and deer . I have bought and traded other guns , for one reason or other but kept this one. The other plus with a ruger is you get rings to go with it . Once scoped your all set as we never had anything come lose or fail with this rifle . The only thing done was having the smith polish the trigger . Never handled the hawkeye with the new trigger , but they are easy to tune.
The price is the same for the standard or stainless steel,so that is another plus.

Will Browning offer you an exchange for your rifle ? This would be the best op. less $$ Then you might want to go to a A bolt. I see the X bolts now being turned back in and sold as used . there must be a problem there .

If your dealer is making an exchange then go to a ruger to stay with the 358. I would also look at a Stainless Savage and a Tikka if going to another calipeir, but then again you will need rings .
You never said where you hunt and for what animals . If you were in bear country as well as deer I would have something a little more than 257R. As having seen big bears take and walk from a 270.
Let us know how it all works out .
All the best

Hope

Bigeasy · « **Reply #29 on:** June 13, 2009, 08:43:45 AM »

For the guys who have been having problems with their .358 BLR's - I have a few questions..

What is a "timing" problem?

Has everyone tried their rifles with factory Winchester ammo? No cheating here....

Folks who have sent their rifles back to Browning, what was their response? Has anyone bothered to inquire further by calling the factory if what was diagnosed and repaired was not clear?

Not to sound like a jerk, but a lot of this sounds like operator error. Hammers that fall on everything except factory loads?, bolts that stay to hard to open, only momentarelly?, actions that open slightly upon firing? (almost always the result of way to hot a hand load in that particular rifle), rifles having problems with bullets sticking in the rifling? (NOT with factory loads, I would bet) Just some thoughts from someone who has owned 3 different BLR's, and put a lot of factory and reloaded ammo thru each - a .358, a 7mm mag, and a 243 win.

Larry