Author Topic: smart swiss in ww 2..  (Read 1086 times)

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Offline slim rem 7

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smart swiss in ww 2..
« on: May 17, 2009, 05:48:16 AM »
 we need study how the swiss prepred for hitlers aggression during ww 2.. pretty smart.. we need study what they did, incase we are ever called on to defend this country against those that would put us in bondage by abolishing the second ammendment..we have the means .. the will ..well we ll see..jmo slim

Offline DDZ

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Re: smart swiss in ww 2..
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2009, 06:24:09 AM »

There are shooting ranges everywhere in Switzerland, and many people from young to old participate in shooting. The Swiss government even incourages it. Family outings involve the whole family going to the shooting range. The Swiss have the biggest shooting compitition at one of thier ranges in the world. In Switzerland you don't see many golf coarses, you see shooting ranges.
 They have a shooting contest every September for boys and girls 12-16 years old. Thousands participate and come to watch.

Since 1291 Switzerland has used its armed populace for its defense. The Swiss have the highest gun ownership per capita in the world. When the Nazis occupied Europe in 1939-41, they proclaimed the death penalty for anyone that failed to surrender thier firearms in 24 hours. One of the reasons the Nazis didn't invade Switzerland is because every man had a rifle in his home. The Nazi invasion plan stated that because of the Swiss shooting skills Switzerland would be difficult to conquer and pacify. This demonstrates that civilian firearm ownership can prevent a large number of deaths and even genocide.

Its the same reason Japan did not decide to invade the U.S. 
Those people who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants.    Wm. Penn

Offline slim rem 7

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Re: smart swiss in ww 2..
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2009, 08:09:46 AM »
 thats the same as my info.. we can do the same thing.. first target the
 biased news media.. hit them with our best paint balls across thier lens  ;D slim

Offline Brett

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Re: smart swiss in ww 2..
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2009, 02:27:02 PM »
Darn I misplaced that BS meter again.   ::)   Hitler was a screw ball. I really don't think he gave a crap about who had bank accounts in Switzerland or what families had ties to Switzerland.  I think what he did understand is that it would cost him too much in time and resources to take Switzerland (i.e; the costs outwayed any potential benefits) so he left them alone.   
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Offline Elijah Gunn

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Re: smart swiss in ww 2..
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2009, 04:11:06 PM »

There are shooting ranges everywhere in Switzerland, and many people from young to old participate in shooting. The Swiss government even incourages it.  In Switzerland you don't see many golf coarses, you see shooting ranges.
  
Sounds like paradise. In my opinion a golf course is just the waste of what should be a perfectly good shooting range.
What will you say on Judgement Day?

The BANKERS win every war.

When gardening for food is outlawed, I'll BE an outlaw.

Offline slim rem 7

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Re: smart swiss in ww 2..
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2009, 06:37:47 PM »
 thanks for the info tm7.. but im with brett.. the swiss made it so hitler knew he had a huge long term war with the swiss. study thier alps fortifications an refuge quarters..the let hitler know the tunnel he needed for quick victory would be destroyed before he got the first tank loaded .. then hes got to make a long adjustment just to attack.. the lutwaff would have been in danger in the alps,an much less effective.. just think what cables run from mountain top to lountain top would have done to thier effectiveness. my info is the swiss had huge guns that rolled out of the mountainsides to fire.. alll thisb was done to fight an gradual retreat war by the swiss. they had plans of retreating from one area thru the mountains to another ,all the time exacting an heavy casualty on the germans..
 each male had his rifle and was trained an part of the militia.. how easily we could do this in this country ,but for the left who want to eliminate any threat without firing a shot.. jmo. slim

Offline no guns here

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Re: smart swiss in ww 2..
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2009, 09:14:19 PM »
Dang TM... I was with you for the whole first sentence.


I think there were multiple reasons the German's didn't invade Switzerland in WWII.  One... Switzerland was a major financier of the German machine that much is known.  Two... It wasn't a strategic need.  Of course Hitler was an idiot concerning strategy but it still wasn't needed.  Three... there were a LOT of trained shooters in Switzerland.  The Wermach wouldn't have faired so well in that terrain.  Their tanks would have been largely restricted to the valleys.  The Luftwaffe wouldn't have had unrestricted open air space in which to operate due to the mountainous terrain which would have reduced their effectiveness.  Think back to Iwo Jima and look at the problems we had digging the Japanese out of the tunnels on that island.  Now imagine doing that for a whole country of mountains.


Large numbers of armed Americans weren't the only reason that Japan didn't invade the US.  Actually, they didn't have anywhere near the number of troops needed to take California much less the US of A.  Also, they didn't have the naval forces to effect a large scale landing from one side of the Pacific to the other.  They couldn't have surmounted the logistics.

POSSIBLY in the immediate aftermath of their opening stroke at Pearl Harbor they could have mounted an invasion in a small area of the west coast.  At that time we weren't prepared.  However, they couldn't have secured a large area AND been able to push east.  If they had been willing to stop their China conflict then they would have stood a better chance.  In the end though... we still would have killed them off and pushed them back into the sea.  It wouldn't have been the individual American with his .30-30 that did it though.  It would have been what inevitably would become the greatest military power ever known.  Face it we had thousands of bombers, thousands of fighters, thousands of tanks and an incredible manufacturing capability that no one else could match.  We won the war in some ways based solely on attrition.  We kept making more when they couldn't.

Dang, I'm off topic again...

NHG
"I feared for my life!"

Offline slim rem 7

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Re: smart swiss in ww 2..
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2009, 09:49:02 PM »
bottum line is that is how the war was won.. that an one other thing.. heroic soldiers that did an some did not come back..
 any war is really won or lost by the willingness to sacrifice of its people.. then of course the economics he mentioned can determine who wins.. myself i ll alway believe for a long time this country has been the bastion of freedom of this planet.. kept like it was by the almighty.. now im afraid i see paganism an cancerous lack of any faith
pull this great country dn.. its so very sad that i can do nothing it seems to turn the people back to thier faith in the creator..
history repeats itself time an again.. we are after all simply human,with all his corruptible traits.. some will be angered by this ..fine man has always been subject to the same corruption ..wealth greed ,power ,pleasure are some of mans weaknesses that eventually pull him dn ..time after time...this my opinion  ,,slim

Offline slim rem 7

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Re: smart swiss in ww 2..
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2009, 04:25:41 AM »
germans didn t have the military might an sophisticated equipment to fight an mountain gurrilla type fight,that we have today.. also have no doubts our soldiers respect the mountain enemy over there very much im thinking..we will never know if hitler could have taken the swiss..
 could be could  he would have found his own version of vietnam..
 fact is he chose easier enemies to whip an got absorbed by russiaan finally outfought by the allies with american made arms an war equipment..now its all like it turned out because this country was this country.. if hitler had succeded in whipping every one else..hitler would surely have went for a treaty with the swiss to make his final effort at whipping the U.S. even feasible.. we sure doing a lot o speculating huh..
 i just wish our people with arms today would be a little more cohesive an determined to preserve the 2nd.. thats where we need to study what the swiss did.. again speculating. slim

Offline hunt-m-up

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Re: smart swiss in ww 2..
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2009, 10:34:25 AM »
I don't always agree with TM7, but he's right on with this one. The Swiss would not have been much opposition to the Blitzkreig machine. They have the "gold" and are at least helping to make the rules.
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: smart swiss in ww 2..
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2009, 10:39:54 AM »
 If you take the time to look deeper you will see that in case of an attack many Swiss men have tunnels and passes that they destory at a short noitice . They not only have rifles they have everything they need . If invaded the front line forces would have been cut off in several hours with little chance of resupply . In both world wars it would have been effective .
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: smart swiss in ww 2..
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2009, 11:56:42 AM »
Well TM-7 guess you will need to ask them , I read about their plan if attacked many years ago for a history paper and that was one of there options . It seems that they had/have a 2 week defense plan that once started can go with out communication . The Swiss were/are in banking , metals , a trained work force ( Germans used captured trained labor as slaves ) and several other reasons exist like more realstate that connects to yours as reasons to invade . None seemed enough to warrant an attack yet .
If you destory how your attacker gets to you then you stop the attack ?
I have seen others state your reasons and don't completly discount them but if you check the French is were your "reason" started and they have taken a beating over the years .
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline slim rem 7

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Re: smart swiss in ww 2..
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2009, 08:58:57 AM »
 we may yet find out.. you can bet the swiss have not been asleep for 59 yrs.. :) slim

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: smart swiss in ww 2..
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2009, 09:05:44 AM »
as before would the gain offset the loss for the attacker ? With weapons of today it probly could be done but at a great cost in human and wealth .
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline slim rem 7

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Re: smart swiss in ww 2..
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2009, 10:21:50 AM »
 i agree shootall. i just wish we americans viewed every man a rifle as the swiss apparently do..they are realistic.. an many of us kinda don t understand the reality that is human.. that being power corrupts ,absolute power corrupts absolutly..jmo slim

Offline no guns here

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Re: smart swiss in ww 2..
« Reply #15 on: May 26, 2009, 02:11:53 AM »
Ok... leaving out any conspiracy type stuff and just thinking militarily I can find no reason for Germany to want to invade Switzerland.  There are other easier ways to get to southern Europe without having to wage mountain warfare.  What would they have gained in the '30's? 
     Rail lines that would have been sabotaged easily.  No major highways running completely across the country.  No major tunnels for direct access. The big ones have been completed relatively recently.  In fact the tunnels would have been a major choke point to hold up any German advance.  The mountain passes are high, narrow, rocky and snow covered for a large part of the year.  Rivers rage with runoff for spring and early summer.  The roads in the valley's would have been easily closed with snipers, rock-slides, forced avalanches etc.  As far as I know Switzerland has no major natural resources that would have been necessary for the German war machine.  The population was not large or centralized enough to be a good source of forced labor.  Much easier to get the slave labor from larger cities in flatter, more easily traversed areas.  In my opinion, it would be MUCH easier to go to the west through France and then down into Italy or to the east and through the Adriatic (did I get that one right?).  In fact as a route to get forces to the fight in the south, Switzerland was more of an obstacle than anything else.  If I were doing it, I would let Switzerland alone and then encircle it.  Hitler could have succeeded in this easily but being the strategic genuis that he was he decided to try to take on England and the USSR at the same time.  In fact, he could have probably beaten either but never both.  If he could have diverted forces from East to West or from West to East he probably could have taken either foe.

On a separate note... He was an idiot.
His Navy was woefully short on major combatants EXCEPT for submarines.  Of course, they almost won the conflict with England but Hitler cut funding at a critical point.  Smart huh?

His Air Force was almost completely devoid of heavy bombers.  Nothing like the Lancaster, B-17, B-29 or anything like that.

He threw away entire armies at Stalingrad.

He failed to see the game changing promise of jet aviation until too late in the war.

If Hitler had continued to build his machine another year or two before getting totally stupid, the war might have been drastically different.  If he had developed heavy bombers, and pushed the jet fighter development harder the air war would have been vastly different.  If he had funded the building of scores of more submarines, the sea war and the effect on England would have been devastating.

In the end, we still would have won conventionally.  The only catch was whether Germany would get the bomb working before we did.  Thank goodness Hitler was a military genius and we were able to sweep us some of his secrets and scientists before the Soviets got them all.


Anyone ever wonder WHY our airplanes are just as fast now as in the sixties?  Ever wonder why they don't go any higher?  Why can't we go any faster than the SR-71 which was designed with slide-rules in the '50's?  I say it is entirely due to the German engineers and scientists that came over to the West in the aftermath of WWII.  They would have been in their 30's and 40's at that time.  By the mid-60's to mid-70's they would have been retired or dead.  We sort of stagnated at that point in the development of new aircraft.  Oh we were doing some really crazy stealth stuff but basically the aircraft weren't any faster, bigger or better than before.  It wasn't like we got a quantum leap until now with the F-22, F-35, B2 and arguably the 1970's designed F117.

Something to think about...

NGH

(sorry got WAY off topic)
"I feared for my life!"

Offline slim rem 7

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Re: smart swiss in ww 2..
« Reply #16 on: May 26, 2009, 03:39:59 AM »
 a studier of weapons an war.. im niether,so since he confirms what i said  ;D ,i ll have to let no guns words stand as more truth than i could question. slim
 since im old its sure nice to talk fighten rather than doin it..i wouldn t have a prayer no more.. but like i told my wife.. somebody takes an elderly lady to nothin,,in front of me.. im not sure i can do the smart thing ,,win or lose.. she [wife] just looked at me an shook her head... wonder why she always wants to go with me now ,when i go out.. :)

Offline no guns here

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Re: smart swiss in ww 2..
« Reply #17 on: May 26, 2009, 07:22:21 AM »
Remember... Sam Colt made men equal.  Though you may not be the physical specimen you once were, two to the chest and one to the head makes the other guy quite a bit less than he used to be too.


NGH
"I feared for my life!"

Offline slim rem 7

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Re: smart swiss in ww 2..
« Reply #18 on: May 26, 2009, 07:31:46 AM »
 well it was with me that day.. i don t want to get monthly visits just cause i  didn t agree with a fellas way of talkin to folks.. ..but its there all the time so hope i don t ever have to use it.. but i use to practice as though i would.. not enough 38 ammo to be had to practice much now..slim