I picked up some "generic" sabots and played around with these bullets. I started with 60gr. Blackhorn, and got acceptable accuracy at 50 yds. All over the place at 100. Moved the charge up to 80 gr. and it was like launching frisbees. Backed down to 50gr. and got good groups at 50, but still not good at all at 100. I think I will just leave these in the box until I find some other use for them. I've always been a conical man, never liked sabots, and these are certainly not going to change my mind. These were some bullets my Dad tried to shoot in an unmodified 1911 I think. My brother said he could not get them to chamber well. My plan was just to use them for plinking.