Author Topic: Another Violation of Human Liberty  (Read 2399 times)

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Offline Heather

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Another Violation of Human Liberty
« on: May 19, 2009, 08:26:44 AM »
Judge Forces 13-Year-Old to Undergo Cancer Treatments

MINNEAPOLIS —  A Minnesota judge has ruled a 13-year-old boy with Hodgkin's lymphoma, a highly treatable form of cancer, must seek medical treatment over his parents' objections.

full story @ http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,520318,00.html


Minnesota Boy With Cancer Vows to Resist Chemotherapy by Punching, Kicking

Daniel and his parents stopped chemotherapy after one treatment and opted for "alternative medicines," prompting Brown County authorities to interven.

full story @ http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,520607,00.html

When did people loose their right to their lives???
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Offline rockbilly

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Re: Another Violation of Human Liberty
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2009, 08:43:52 AM »
Heather, though I don’t always agree, sometimes it is necessary for the courts to step in and protect the rights of a minor or person that is not capable of making the decision themselves.

There are a lot of reasons why it is necessary, religion being the most common for refusing or denying medical attention, denial or ignorance of the problem ranks a close second, and then worry of cost.

As I said, I don’t always agree, but isn’t it better to take action to save a child’s life than to look the other direction and let them die from something that can be cured? I do think a person of legal age and sound mind should have the right to make their own decesion as to what treatment they will accept, but remember, we are dealing with a minor here.

Just keep the child in your prayers, maybe God will spare him.

Offline Heather

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Re: Another Violation of Human Liberty
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2009, 08:58:33 AM »
I'm sorry rockbilly, but I simply don't agree.  In this case these people might be idiots and won't seek treatments that will actually cure him.  If that is the case then it will be sad and the world will be less one idiot.  On the other hand they might simply be choosing treatment that isn't mainstream, but safer and more effective.  Who are we to tell these people what treatments they HAVE to give their kid?

I can honestly say that if God forbid, one of my boys had cancer they WOULD NOT receive chemo or radiation until Matt and I had exhausted all other options.  I am pretty sure Matt would back that decision. 

There are too many treatments hidden from the mainstream to insure money continues to flow in healthcare.  If many treatments were widely accepted then a lot of doctors would be out of jobs. 

NO one has the right to tell a parent how to treat their child's health.  Help and advice can be offered, but when it comes to the final decision that is for a person or in the case of a minor their parent to make. It shouldn't be the choice of a doctor, a judge, or a jury, but a personal choice as to what is put into one's body!

Heather
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Offline WylieKy

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Re: Another Violation of Human Liberty
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2009, 09:03:57 AM »
I don't know how I feel about this one.  I am very much a "gov'ment needs to keep out of the home" type person, but there is a line.  If a parent beats (BEAT, not spank) a child, sexualy abuses a child, or neglects a child at some point the government should step in.  Very grey line.  

If a parent refuses to get appropiate medical attention for their child, I think it is neglect.  I know that they are objecting on a religious stance, but then that is also where cyanide flavored kool-aid comes from, right?  I don't know enough about this specific case to make a judgement , but I do believe it is a parents responsibility to provide shelter, food, and medical care for their child.  If they are unable and/or unwilling to provide proper care for their child, the government should step in.

Heather, I know this is hitting close to home for you right now, but if this child is truly sick, he needs help.  There is a difference between some crackpot mom wanting to rub crystals and burn sage instead of chemo and a lazy teacher wanting to dope a kid instead of help him.  I could understand a parent wanting to persue any possible avenue to help their child heal.  I could understand the parent of a terminal child wanting to avoid the indiginity of chemo and extending their suffering.  What I can't fathom is a parent allowing their child to be eaten from within for "faith."

EDIT Heather, I had not read your follow up post yet when I posted it.  The key phrase in your statement is that you WOULD allow chemo or radiation as a last resort.  You would persue all avenues to help your child, but eventually you would allow that Dr to do what he felt was necessary to help your child.  Again, I don't have all of the details on this case, but it souds like the kid needs help but the parents aren't allowing it.
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Offline Heather

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Re: Another Violation of Human Liberty
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2009, 09:32:03 AM »
WilieKy,

I had failed to draw the parrallel to my own life until you pointed it out, but I guess that is why I feel so strongly, but I can put those feelings aside and still have pretty much the same opinon.

I agree with you that there is a line that people cross when it is then approiate and often neccessary for government to step in.  Physical child abuse, sexual abuse, and physical neglect are all just causes.

If the parents were simply ignoring the cancer and praying to some diety that it would go away I could see that as neglect and then even I would advocate for children services to intervene.  That is not the case here.  They are seeking alternative treatments.  They may not be mainstream, but they aren't neglecting the kid by refusing one specific treatment.  They are simply treating him in a different way.

"Daniel's parents have been supporting what they say is their son's decision to instead treat the disease with nutritional supplements and other alternative treatments favored by the Nemenhah Band. The Missouri-based religious group believes in natural healing methods advocated by some American Indians."

 I am not saying that this Nemenhah band is credible because I know little about them, but there ARE treatments for cancer that work that aren't widely accepted by the medical community!

In the article  "the mom says she'll treat it if it's an emergency." I am assuming that means she will allow him to have the chemo? She may be a religious nut, but she should still have the say so on how she chooses to treat her child.  Chemo is nasty and if she can find a safer more natural way to cure him then more power to her.

Heather
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Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and loose both...Ben Franklin

Offline teamnelson

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Re: Another Violation of Human Liberty
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2009, 09:41:04 AM »
What if the government was forcing a pregnant child to have an abortion, citing life of the mother as cause, against her wishes? Would our response be different?

I use that example simply to point out what happens when we empower government to be involved in these situations. And it's a real scenario in other countries.
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Offline WylieKy

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Re: Another Violation of Human Liberty
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2009, 10:01:19 AM »
This is a case by case thing I think.  As I said I don't know all of the details of the case even after reading the article.  Following are some important questions that need answered before I can form an educated opinion.

How did the government find out about this? Someone, somewhere, felt the child was not getting the help he deserved and decided to report it.  Who was this and why did they do it?

What steps ARE the parents taking, and where did they get their information?
Did they do research and find some possible homeopathic cures or are the just "drinking the kool-aide"?

Most important: What is the status of his cancer?
If it is progressing, the government needs to step in, if it is recessing or in stasis....he is in no immediate danger and it is none of their (the government's) business.



This that I do, I do by my own free will.

Offline 45-70.gov

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Re: Another Violation of Human Liberty
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2009, 10:09:07 AM »
when  the government steps  in  and FORCES treatment on someone

this case , terry shivo  in a coma, etc etc


why is their no mention of WHO  IS  FORCED to pay for  it

if '' WE''  are  FORCED  to pay for it     [you go to jail if you don;t pay taxes]

is  our money better spent on  prevention  or  some one that WANTS  it

as long  as ''WE'' are  involved   liberals  derive power by  acting on ''OUR'' behalf


i  say  let them  be......that childs death  may  indirectly  save many others
when drugs are outlawed only out laws will have drugs
DO WHAT EVER IT TAKES TO STOP A DEMOCRAT
OBAMACARE....the biggest tax hike in the  history of mankind
free choice and equality  can't co-exist
AFTER THE LIBYAN COVER-UP... remind any  democrat voters ''they sat and  watched them die''...they  told help to ''stand down''

many statements made here are fiction and are for entertainment purposes only and are in no way to be construed as a description of actual events.
no one is encouraged to do anything dangerous or break any laws.

Offline Siskiyou

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Re: Another Violation of Human Liberty
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2009, 10:14:16 AM »
Parents do not always agree!  Back in the last Century three boys were out for a summer adventure.  I and friend were towing a third friend in a wagon behind us down a remote, dirt country road.  The wagon was attached to our bikes with bailing wire.  We topped a hill and there was a down grade in front of us, plus a curve.  While we were in the curve the baling wire parted and our friend in the wagon crashed into a barb wire fence.

We tried to stop the bleeding with a handkerchief, and we transported him in the wagon to a farm house.  The farmer’s wife was at home, there was no transportation, and no telephone. Our friend was cleaned up and bandaged.  He was then put into a bed, waiting for the farmer to return home.  Once he returned he hauled us to our friends home.

There was a telephone at our friends home but his mother did not call for medical aid, and she did not call her husband.  The mother kept on saying that god would heal him, and as an example displayed her crooked arm.  She had broken the arm as a child and never received medical treatment.

When our friend’s father returned home he was shocked to find his injured son in bed with a bandage around his head.  There was a heated discuss between father and mother, the mother insisting that he son would heal at home.  There was no name calling, but a very serious discussion.  The father arguing in favor of taking the boy to the emergency room.

Fifty some years later there is a phone at that farm house.  I am sure that a call would have been placed to 911.  The local volunteer fire department and ambulance would be dispatched.  The boy would be transported to the hospital and the parents would be notified.

The question arises would the boy receive emergency medical treatment?  The mother arguing against it based on her religious believes, the father arguing for medical treatment?  Does one parent have precedence over the other?  Would the boy be made a ward of the court?
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Offline gypsyman

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Re: Another Violation of Human Liberty
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2009, 10:38:39 AM »
I really wish I knew where to take a stand on this issue. When my mother was growing up, her mom and dad were Christian Scientists. No doctor allowed. Pray to God. She fell off of a loft in the barn, and ended up with a severe internal infection. She was around 12 or 13 when this happened, as per her telling the story. The neighbors took her to the local hospital, where they operated and stopped the internal bleeding. She very well might have died. If it wasn't for intervening neighbors, I probably might not be sitting here typeing this story.
I really don't want to infringe on a persons right to make medical decisions. All I can say for certain is, I'm glad I don't have to make that decision. Pray for the boy.  gypsyman
We keep trying peace, it usually doesn't work!!Remember(12/7/41)(9/11/01) gypsyman

Offline Questor

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Re: Another Violation of Human Liberty
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2009, 10:46:17 AM »
Heather:

About 20 years ago a friend of mine had that same disease. It's hereditary and he knew that he needed to be tested for it regularly. He went through the chemo and fully recovered and has been cancer free since. During that time he earned a PhD, got married, had a great family, has had a lot of great times and has done good work.  Even back then there was a very high rate of success in treating it.  Untreated, it's a death sentence.

The parents in this Minnesota case are truly mad. They are textbook examples of why we have laws where the state intervenes in cases where the actions of an irresponsible and incompetent parent endanger a child. As in all similar cases, the boy should have no say at all because children are recognized by society as being incapable of advocating for themselves. They simply lack the judgement. I don't see how this is any different than a case of child rape, or creating an environment unfit for human habitation. If there has ever been a case where state intervention is appropriate, this is it.

The public reaction to this is remarkable because it tells me that a lot of people are fed up with this recent power grab by the government.

This case has gotten a lot of publicity, but there are a lot of cases, every day and across the country, where children are abused by their parents and the state intervenes as an advocate for them.

Safety first

Offline teamnelson

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Re: Another Violation of Human Liberty
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2009, 10:48:32 AM »
The issue of a case by case approach is that inherently makes liberty situational. Liberty is a risk; some will abuse it to the detriment of others. Whoever then referees society can easily become a tyrant for good reasons ... the life of a child. But power once given over to government cannot be taken back.
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Offline 45-70.gov

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Re: Another Violation of Human Liberty
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2009, 11:02:44 AM »
some  things there is no right answer

you can let it  be
 or  hand more power over  to some one who   will turn it over to  who  knows who

i say let it be

gypsyman.....glad you survived your moms operation before you were  around...good call  there
when drugs are outlawed only out laws will have drugs
DO WHAT EVER IT TAKES TO STOP A DEMOCRAT
OBAMACARE....the biggest tax hike in the  history of mankind
free choice and equality  can't co-exist
AFTER THE LIBYAN COVER-UP... remind any  democrat voters ''they sat and  watched them die''...they  told help to ''stand down''

many statements made here are fiction and are for entertainment purposes only and are in no way to be construed as a description of actual events.
no one is encouraged to do anything dangerous or break any laws.

Offline Questor

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Re: Another Violation of Human Liberty
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2009, 11:04:12 AM »
I don't think it's a case of liberty at all. It's a case where society has, over time, decided how to protect people who are unable to protect themselves. Children and the retarded are the prime examples, and many unfortunately become wards of the state every year.

Safety first

Offline WylieKy

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Re: Another Violation of Human Liberty
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2009, 11:57:52 AM »
More info: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090519/ap_on_re_us/us_forced_chemo

The mom skipped out on the court date.  The child told the Dr. and Judge that his pain was a 10 on a 1-10 scale, and his tumor is growing again.  IMHO plenty of reason for the State to step in to protect the child. 

Yep, crackpots.  This is from the their website.  Looks like you pay them $250.00 a month and they make you a "Medicine Man (or Woman)." They have 7 tabs on their official website and 5 of them deal with giving them money.

http://www.nemenhah.org/images/pdf/NemenhahIndividualAdoptionForm.pdf

Nemenhah Band and Native American Traditional Organization
(Oklevueha Native American Church of Sanhempet)
P.O. Box 126; Weaubleau, MO 65774 877‐7WALK SACRED
Application For Spiritual Adoption by the Elected Principle Medicine Chief [EPMC] of the Nemenhah Band
Whereas: The Nemenhah Band and Native American Traditional Organization is the “Spiritual Family” of the Elected Principle
Medicine Chief through the ancient principle of “Making of Family,” which the Nemenhah Band articulates as “Spiritual Adoption,”
and it is through this principle that I request Spiritual Adoption by the EPMC,
Therefore: Through this application I declare that (1) Natural Healing comprises part of my Spiritual Orientation; (2) I will First Do
No Harm; (3) I will diligently study the Sahaptan Healing Way and strive to become a Sahaptan Guide, Carrier and Shirt in due course,
understanding that I shall receive my training from Chief Cloudpiler, or by whomever he assigns to assist for purposes of my training
as a Medicine Man or Woman of the Nemenhah Band; (4) in accordance with the Constitution of the Band, which I have read and to
which I subscribe, I covenant to generously donate out of my surplus so that my gift may help to support my Mentor and my Band,
beginning with the suggested donation of $250.00 which accompanies this application and going forward each month thereafter as
the Spirit dictates.
Date: _______________________ Signed: ______________________________________
I understand that this is not “Tribal” or “Legal” Adoption and that it is the only manner in which a person may become a Member of the Nemenhah Band.
I have written my check, Payable to Cloudpiler, and I have sent this application to the address above.
Intake Information: Please Print Legibly Gender: Male ____ Female _____
Applicant: _____________________________________________________ Date of Birth: __________________________________
Mailing Address: _____________________________________________________________________________________________
City: _______________________________________ State: ________ Zip: ____________________ Country: _________________
Phone: _____________________________________ Email: __________________________________________________________
Other Phone: ________________________________ Website: _______________________________________________________
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Please Do Not Write Below This Line ‐ Administration Purposes Only
EPMC Signature: _______________________________________________
Offering Information:
Amount: $250.00 USD Check ______ Money Order ______ Cash ______ Kind _____
Date Received: _______________________________
Documentation Information:
Certificate _______ Commission Letter _______ Wallet Card _______ (When Available)
Date Sent: ___________________________________
This that I do, I do by my own free will.

Offline teamnelson

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Re: Another Violation of Human Liberty
« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2009, 12:30:27 PM »
Well Roe v. Wade is widely considered a liberty issue - the right of a woman to choose. The unborn child receives no protection from the government. Two liberties in conflict, government protects one. Why not uphold the mothers choice in this situation if she has determined it is best for her?
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Offline WylieKy

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Re: Another Violation of Human Liberty
« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2009, 12:43:31 PM »
Well Roe v. Wade is widely considered a liberty issue - the right of a woman to choose. The unborn child receives no protection from the government. Two liberties in conflict, government protects one. Why not uphold the mothers choice in this situation if she has determined it is best for her?

There you go, trying to be all rational.  If abortion is legal, then how can the state charge someone with double homicide/murder for killing a pregnat woman...and...if a woman has the right to decide to murder her baby or not, why does that right stop at birth?

This that I do, I do by my own free will.

Offline billy_56081

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Re: Another Violation of Human Liberty
« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2009, 01:43:32 PM »
This is a very tough one, on one side you have a very fatal but treatable disease, on the other you have the parents rights. This  case is very close to home here. Brown county ajoins where I live in MN Watonwan county. I pray fo the child, the judge and the family in this case. I wil say this though, this case is being tried in probably the most conservative county in MN. I pray all involved survive.
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline DalesCarpentry

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Re: Another Violation of Human Liberty
« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2009, 05:34:08 PM »
I say if there is a known cure to what ever ill's your child and you refuse treatment that is child abuse. You can throw religion out the window. You and I should do everything in our power to treat our kids. Dale
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Offline teamnelson

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Re: Another Violation of Human Liberty
« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2009, 05:58:58 PM »
What if my child suffers from a societal illness - a different worldview than the one prevailing in society. The  known cure is offered through social work and education. Is it abuse on the part of the parents to raise their children that way? Should government be allowed to supercede the parents? No physical issue; just mental, emotional, social.
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Offline DalesCarpentry

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Re: Another Violation of Human Liberty
« Reply #20 on: May 19, 2009, 06:12:00 PM »
What if my child suffers from a societal illness - a different worldview than the one prevailing in society. The  known cure is offered through social work and education. Is it abuse on the part of the parents to raise their children that way? Should government be allowed to supercede the parents? No physical issue; just mental, emotional, social.
I think I draw the line there. If it is not life and death I say let the parents treat it as they see fit. Dale
The quality of a mans life is in direct proportion to his commitment to excellence.

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Offline teamnelson

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Re: Another Violation of Human Liberty
« Reply #21 on: May 19, 2009, 06:20:43 PM »
That is reasonable.

I just wish I could expect the government to be reasonable.  :)
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Offline Matt

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Re: Another Violation of Human Liberty
« Reply #22 on: May 19, 2009, 06:34:13 PM »
TN, Dale is a socialist democrat and thinks that the government knows best in all cases... he just pretends that he believes in civil liberties until anything that shows he don’t is posted.

I say if the kid is 13 and says he does not want chemo... then leave them the hell alone. If the kid dies then he played the hand he was dealt and the way he wanted to and THAT is everyone’s GOD GIVEN RIGHT who the hell are all of you to tell this kid he has to live or can’t choose to live and or die the way he wants. I have seen many people go through chemo and not a single one has ever said to me “Ah that wasn’t so bad" No they ALL said it was hell... and it has major long term effects. There are alternative treatments that will and do work and don’t have the long term effects... It should be the FAMILIES CHOICE not mine, yours or the governments... geez... it kills me that so many of you people cannot get it through your thick heads that you either believe in Civil Rights and Liberties or you Don’t... there is no in between... That is the brainwashing tactics that have been used on you... If you are Pro Second Amendment then you have to be Pro “Constitution” or the whole damn thing is null and moot and should just be thrown in the trash…

Matt
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Offline mirage1988

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Re: Another Violation of Human Liberty
« Reply #23 on: May 19, 2009, 07:13:58 PM »
I agree matt and heather- but according to a major news outlet, the kid is illiterate, therefore he had no idea what this says!
More info: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090519/ap_on_re_us/us_forced_chemo



http://www.nemenhah.org/images/pdf/NemenhahIndividualAdoptionForm.pdf

Nemenhah Band and Native American Traditional Organization
(Oklevueha Native American Church of Sanhempet)
P.O. Box 126; Weaubleau, MO 65774 877‐7WALK SACRED
Application For Spiritual Adoption by the Elected Principle Medicine Chief [EPMC] of the Nemenhah Band
Whereas: The Nemenhah Band and Native American Traditional Organization is the “Spiritual Family” of the Elected Principle
Medicine Chief through the ancient principle of “Making of Family,” which the Nemenhah Band articulates as “Spiritual Adoption,”
and it is through this principle that I request Spiritual Adoption by the EPMC,
Therefore: Through this application I declare that (1) Natural Healing comprises part of my Spiritual Orientation; (2) I will First Do
No Harm; (3) I will diligently study the Sahaptan Healing Way and strive to become a Sahaptan Guide, Carrier and Shirt in due course,
understanding that I shall receive my training from Chief Cloudpiler, or by whomever he assigns to assist for purposes of my training
as a Medicine Man or Woman of the Nemenhah Band; (4) in accordance with the Constitution of the Band, which I have read and to
which I subscribe, I covenant to generously donate out of my surplus so that my gift may help to support my Mentor and my Band,
beginning with the suggested donation of $250.00 which accompanies this application and going forward each month thereafter as
the Spirit dictates.
Date: _______________________ Signed: ______________________________________
I understand that this is not “Tribal” or “Legal” Adoption and that it is the only manner in which a person may become a Member of the Nemenhah Band.
I have written my check, Payable to Cloudpiler, and I have sent this application to the address above.
Intake Information: Please Print Legibly Gender: Male ____ Female _____
Applicant: _____________________________________________________ Date of Birth: __________________________________
Mailing Address: _____________________________________________________________________________________________
City: _______________________________________ State: ________ Zip: ____________________ Country: _________________
Phone: _____________________________________ Email: __________________________________________________________
Other Phone: ________________________________ Website: _______________________________________________________
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Please Do Not Write Below This Line ‐ Administration Purposes Only
EPMC Signature: _______________________________________________
Offering Information:
Amount: $250.00 USD Check ______ Money Order ______ Cash ______ Kind _____
Date Received: _______________________________
Documentation Information:
Certificate _______ Commission Letter _______ Wallet Card _______ (When Available)
Date Sent: ___________________________________


Sometimes we just need to step back and let nature happen.

Offline teamnelson

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Re: Another Violation of Human Liberty
« Reply #24 on: May 19, 2009, 07:41:28 PM »
That's the point ... Liberty really is letting things happen we may not like and even disagree with, trusting that the Right way will prevail over time. Big Government is a vote of no confidence in the ability of rational people to do the right thing.
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Offline WylieKy

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Re: Another Violation of Human Liberty
« Reply #25 on: May 20, 2009, 03:32:31 AM »
Matt, TN, Mirage...

There is a point where the government needs to step in.  Not the Feds, the locals.  What if a parent chooses to not feed their child?  The government (not Government) is there to prevent ones liberties from infringing on another.  Otherwise we have a might make right anarchy.  The state the boy lives in has determined that medical attention is a necessity and it is a parents responsibility to provide it.  They are NOT providing it.  I have a 6 year old daughter... If she were to ever become sick I would persue every avenue to make sure she got well.  That includes mainstream medicine (but not to the exclusion of others).  I can promise that upon trying alternative medicine and it failing, I would go mainstream.  This boy has an 80+% cure rate with main stream meds and 90%+ mortality rate without.

The kid is 13 and can't read.  Either he has a major learning disability and is not able to make these kinds of decisions for himself, or his parents are...less than dirt.

This would all be moot if he were terminally ill, but he's not (yet.)


TM7,
I'm all for alternative meds.  I'm all for anything that works.  However, according to the Dr's reports, the tumor shrunk after chemo but has since grown back...whatever they are doing isn't working.   
This that I do, I do by my own free will.

Offline teamnelson

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Re: Another Violation of Human Liberty
« Reply #26 on: May 20, 2009, 06:53:01 AM »
Every time the government wants to do something for the good of the children, I cringe because it is usually really not for the children and it's good is debatable. This is a horrible situation; I hope the child gets the care he needs, but it wouldn't shock me to learn later his condition was not as bad as we were told and his reading skills are delayed but he's not illiterate. People working for social agencies are known to pad stories to engage the system ... Always for what they truly believe to be the good of the child. It's a lot of power to violate family structure and values that you don't agree with.
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Offline Heather

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Re: Another Violation of Human Liberty
« Reply #27 on: May 20, 2009, 07:01:12 AM »
My main complaint with this case is that while Chemo may be effective it is not the only treatment for cancer.  There are many more proven methods.  Why subject a child to a painful hellish process if it isn't neccessary?  How is it legal for a judge to demand it.  Keep in mind that the person raising the complaint was his doctor.  The doctor that stands to loose a bit of money if the child doens't comply with his reccomendations.  This is simply another case of the government testing the powers they have over the people. 

Heather
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Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and loose both...Ben Franklin

Offline ncsurveyor

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Re: Another Violation of Human Liberty
« Reply #28 on: May 20, 2009, 07:14:18 AM »
For all those looking out for the "best interest" of the child, are you looking at it from the standpoint that his accomplishments in this world are of measurable and qualitative worth, without which he would be what?

While I certainly agree that there are events in this life that are of great personal value to the average person, none so much as comes close to whatever God has chosen for us.

That said, I would hope that the principals involved seek to choose life, or the best possible actions to promote same, in order to live a life according to the will of God, but if they choose not to seek even "guaranteed life saving treatment" in lieu of accepting their final commission, who am I, moreover, who is the government, to make that choice for them?





Offline Heather

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Re: Another Violation of Human Liberty
« Reply #29 on: May 20, 2009, 07:15:59 AM »
For all those looking out for the "best interest" of the child, are you looking at it from the standpoint that his accomplishments in this world are of measurable and qualitative worth, without which he would be what?

While I certainly agree that there are events in this life that are of great personal value to the average person, none so much as comes close to whatever God has chosen for us.

That said, I would hope that the principals involved seek to choose life, or the best possible actions to promote same, in order to live a life according to the will of God, but if they choose not to seek even "guaranteed life saving treatment" in lieu of accepting their final commission, who am I, moreover, who is the government, to make that choice for them?






AMEN!
Strive for complete serenity in all aspects of life.
www.mymartialartsplus.com

A closed mind is often closed to the truth!

Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and loose both...Ben Franklin