Author Topic: NEF 223 stainless bull barrel (Read 1120 times)

grumps · « **on:** May 21, 2009, 12:30:41 PM »

Just got this new gun. Can't find any ammo for it yet at local stores - yes some is available online but shipping is outrageous and makes waiting on local scalpers to get some in is still cheaper. Question is and I think I've found the answer but is the twist on the stainless a 1 in 12. I've been reading a lot of stuff on here and everybody has similar but different suggestions as to what to get the best performance with the NEF 223. I may be limited to what I can get in ammo for this critter but what seems to be a consensus on best accuracy for it. It will cost a bit but I can get 55 gr. vmax and/or 55 gr. moly for it - about a $1.25 a bullet. I know military won't be very accurate but I do have a couple hundred rounds of surplus FMJ available. If I get a set of dies what would be my best starting place to reload them...but I really don't want to go that way unless its a have to.

Default · « **Reply #1 on:** May 21, 2009, 02:14:33 PM »

If that is a new rifle the twist rate should be 1 in 9 .... But the only sure way to know if to check the twist yourself at home ... Then go from there ..

As for lack of ammo availablity , good luck with it that is the boat everyone else is in .. Reload like the rest of us heh

Default

chipmunk · « **Reply #2 on:** May 21, 2009, 05:04:36 PM »

Reloading ain't worth much if you can't get any primers!!! I've been looking for small rifle primers for over a month now.

I'll second checking the twist yourself. Only way to be sure.

My .223 ultra is 1 in 9 and it LOVES the 40gr V-max bullets. One hole groups at 100. It throws cheap FMJ rounds all over the place. I have had trouble keeping them on a paper plate at 100.

Rustyinfla · « **Reply #3 on:** May 21, 2009, 06:21:58 PM »

If you have a Dick's Sporting goods near you try them. they seem to have it here when no one else does.

mrbgt · « **Reply #4 on:** May 22, 2009, 03:00:19 AM »

just an fyi 5.56 nato is a no no out of the handi . 1:9 or 1:12 should be ok with the 55grn bullets you listed

Singleshotsam · « **Reply #5 on:** May 22, 2009, 04:33:33 AM »

Here are some things to remember about moly coating in rifles...

PROS
Moly coating acts as a lubricant in the barrel, reducing friction as the bullet travels down the barrel. The results are a truer flight, slightly greater muzzle velocity, and a greater ballistic coefficient. Moly coating also reduces fouling and can reduce the amount to cleaning required. For solid copper bullets, such as the Barnes bullets, moly would be a big advantage and save lots of time cleaning with copper solvent.

CONS
A by-product of molybdemum disulfide and water is sulfuric acid. Therefore, if a barrel gets wet, you need to clean very well. I visited with a gunsmith who had one customer ruin barrels of two rifles because he did not clean them soon enough. Also, going back to "non-moly" is probably impossible since getting the moly back out of the rifling is very difficult.

CONCLUSIONS
There are some benefits to using moly, you just have to be careful with moisture. However, there is most likely no going back... once you have gone moly, you probably can't go back which wouldn't be a big deal w/ a handi rifle, as you could always get a non moly bbl and fit it yourself...

Good luck friend

grumps · « **Reply #6 on:** May 22, 2009, 06:50:05 AM »

The 5.56 NATO is safe to shoot isn't it? Just not very accurate or what. I just got a ammo box full of surplus, it won't hurt the gun will it? Mine is a stainless SB2, how can I find out what the twist is? That is without looking a measuring it, I don't want to do it that way there's got to be a standard twist for it listed somewhere but I can't find it.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #7 on:** May 22, 2009, 07:22:42 AM »

See the FAQs twist rate info and the build year list, if it has an ejector, it's a 1:12", if extractor it may be either.

Tim

grumps · « **Reply #8 on:** May 22, 2009, 11:05:47 AM »

Thanks Tim, but where do I find that stuff. Why would being an ejector or extractor have anything to do with twist? I guess I've never seen a NEF with an ejector, all my dealer gets in are just extractor models.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #9 on:** May 22, 2009, 11:34:14 AM »

Quote from: quickdtoo on May 22, 2009, 07:22:42 AM

See the FAQs twist rate info and the build year list, if it has an ejector, it's a 1:12", if extractor it may be either.

Tim

The FAQs is a sticky in the brown section at the top of this list, required reading for newbies.

PHATINJUN · « **Reply #10 on:** May 23, 2009, 02:12:10 AM »

If it was bought new in the box there should be a little paper called instuctions in these instuctions it will tell you DO NOT SHOOT 5.56 AMMO Also the only way to know the twist for sure is to measure it. It don't hurt and is very easy to do. Kurt

Part of the problem with H&R was thier standardizing just when you thought you had standardized twist the would throw a monkey wrench in it. My standardized 1-12 Hornet is accually a 1-16 My SS 223 that should be 1-9 is 1-12 go figure. Not a big deal as they are both tack drivers.

grumps · « **Reply #11 on:** May 23, 2009, 04:07:53 PM »

OK, new in box never even taken out and looked at. Opened box there is a SB2 2S3 rifle wrapped in plastic, an owners' manual which could be the same manual for any NEF single shot rifle or shotgun. Theres a barrel accessory program card, a join the NRA card and certificate of ownership card and a pad lock. But nothing anywhere says don't shoot 5.56 ammo. Whats the problem with 5.56, it meets the specs of the 223. Is the surplus ammo to hot, too big, too short, too long, or too what? I just bought some vmax and just to satisfy curiosity with the surplus micked the bullets and they are about identical in all measurements. Of course if I call HR 1871 they are going to say stick with 223 Rem. labeled bullets. Shoot em or don't shoot em. If they will damage the gun, I ain't gonna. But I need to know what the risk may be. If its just accuracy, I can live with it. Apparently I have a problem of a different nature. The Barrel accessory card that came with it has a 2005 date on it. Now I'm concerned---I ordered this rifle from my dealer who ordered if from the distributor brand new in October 2008. I just brought it home in February 2009. Does the card indicate that this is a 2005 gun. The serial number is 283732 if that tells anyone anything about when it was made. I'm going to call HR on tuesday to get the info on this but I was hoping that someone would be able to tell me it's all ok and that the accessory card doesn't matter or that it's not ok and it was a 2005 rifle. Anybody got anything different than what I got in the box with a new gun. They don't call me grumps for nothing.

chipmunk · « **Reply #12 on:** May 23, 2009, 04:18:43 PM »

I think they stick in the chamber real bad plus I have heard of pierced primers a lot. Some say they work fine in theirs but I wouldn't do it. Accuracy would most likely suck anyways.

bigvarmnt · « **Reply #13 on:** May 23, 2009, 05:40:29 PM »

Grumps, The letters in front of the serial #s tell the date of manufacture. It's in the faqs. There may be something in there about those military carts. I don't know. Take your time going through those sections at the top of the page. I see stuff I missed before. Don't let it ruin your weekend. I've heard those white box Wins 45 gr H.P.s work good in Handis. Don't know I have a couple boxes but never tried them in Handis. Good Luck!

myarmor · « **Reply #14 on:** May 23, 2009, 05:54:08 PM »

If you search this topic you will find a lot of info. Basicly the Mil. Spec ammo is running a much higher pressure.
Can your frame take it? Most likely..yes. but you are more likely to experience a possibly blow back, and/or peirced primer. Kinda like ..can you run Kerosene in a Deisel engine.... yes and it will run..(and HOT), but it's just not wise to run too much in it.
308 is a different story vs 7.62x51. Very close but the pressure limits are very different. ( Tim I lost my pressure list...)
Though tough and thick Mil. brass you will need to reducethe powder capacity to make for less pressure.
Spell Check?

-Aaron

PHATINJUN · « **Reply #15 on:** May 23, 2009, 08:30:07 PM »

Go to the topic that says " FAQ's and HELP ****PLEASE READ ME!!!**** " scroll down til you come to the heading MILSURP AMMO WARNING 5.56 is not the same spec as 223!! While your in that topic take a look around there is a ton of information there that is very helpful. Kurt

grumps · « **Reply #16 on:** May 27, 2009, 06:32:06 AM »

I'm not concerned about the accuracy of 5.56 ammo, it would be just something to shoot. If it can backfire on me or pierce primers thats different and I won't take the chance. I'll just buy bullets I can hunt something with like hollow point or vmax stuff. I tried to measure the twist and looks like this one is between 1:9 and 1:12 so I guess its would be 1:12. What is the best weight for 1:9 and then 1:12. HR says that it is probably a 1:12 but not absolutely sure, but if it is it would probably like heavier bullets and even went on to say over 55 gr. Says that the biggest change in 06 was going from 1:9 twist to 1:12 and closing the MA plant. I think I'll just sell the thing and get something else with not so much controversy and get a 223 bazooka to shoot the surplus ammo I've now accumulated. Oh well, another lesson of life!

PHATINJUN · « **Reply #17 on:** May 27, 2009, 06:56:02 AM »

Are you sure this is a Bull bbl?? What is the length and dia. at the muzzle? What were the 2 letters in front of the ser#? Kurt

grumps · « **Reply #18 on:** May 30, 2009, 12:13:21 PM »

It is an SB2 2S3 stainless synthetic 223 rem. I thought it to be a bull barrel thats what I told my dealer I wanted. It is 5/8 at the muzzle and 1 1/8 at the butt and from end to end is 22" long. We looked at the pics in last years catalog and thats the way it was described and as I think about it wouldn't a bull brl be about the same all the way from end to end. I'm lost on this one and since talking to HR they are telling me that it is indeed a 2005 or 2006 manuf. according to the prefix on the ss it is a 2006 .. Prefix is NW, but they can't tell me if its 1/9 or 1/12 twist. I know from measure thats its more than 1/9 so it has to be 1/12. Heck, I may even shoot it next week.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #19 on:** May 30, 2009, 02:19:12 PM »

Many people incorrectly think the standard contour is a bull barrel when compared to other sporter barrels, but they're just just heavier than normal. Bull barrels are ~.800" at the muzzle, standard contour are ~.650", 5/8" = .625", so it's a standard contour. To get an accurate check using a patched jag, it must be real tight in the bore, it may take a double patch or a piece of paper added to the patch so it's tight, and the rod should have a ball bearing handle so it can rotate freely with the rifling, otherwise it will skip in the rifling and give you an inaccurate reading. $:-\$ Is it a spring ejector which throws a round out of the chamber or manual extractor which you have to remove the round by hand? If it's an ejector, you'll want to follow the instructions in the FAQs for polishing the chamber, specially it you want to try the 5.56 Nato ammo, and be sure to take a cleaning rod to the range with ya.

Just shoot it and let us know how it does and we'll go from there.

Tim

mitchell · « **Reply #20 on:** May 30, 2009, 04:13:36 PM »

dude most 223 chambered gun are going to say dont shoot 556 in it but truth of the matter is you can have a box of winchesters blow up on ya just as fast as some mil surplus. take this for what its worth i used to shoot it all the time and naver had a prob but i remember shooting a box of UMC where i blew every primer.

just go shooting and have fun

PHATINJUN · « **Reply #21 on:** May 31, 2009, 03:56:35 AM »

I had some 55gr FMJ UMC do the same to me Mitch and I just figured that they were also made to send out to somebodies war but have never had any sp UMC blow primers.
Grump find some 45 -55 grain stuff to shoot out of your gun it should be fine You should be able to shoot 2inch or less with it and may not have any problems til ya try shootin some of the 62gr military stuff.Kurt