Author Topic: cleaning the 336 without damaging bore, crown (Read 1378 times)

kernman · « **on:** May 21, 2009, 03:53:16 PM »

What is the safest method to clean the barrel? As I understand it, the 336 may be cleaned from the breach. I assume this means I do not need a bore guide (designed for cleaning from the muzzle end).

Until now, I have been using a boresnake, soaked in Hoppe's # 9, just one quick pass through and I'm done. However, it seems copper and carbon residues have begun to hurt accuracy.

Here are my questions:

1. Do alumimum cleaning rods really scratch the bore? Isn't steel harder than aluminum? I plan to use two sections of the rod (barrel is 20 inches) to limit the wobble. If I push it from the breach end, I think I could make it through without the rod touching the steel.

2. Has anyone ever used regular ammonia? One guy advocates just using industrial strength ammonia, letting it sit, the draining it. I thought I would do that, then run a rag through to dry it, then, using my bore snake soaked in Hoppe's # 9.

3. Has anyone tried the mix of vinegar and hydrogen peroxide to clean out fouling from powder residue?

Overall, I'm trying to save money. I know there are products like Wipe Out that are reputed to work well, but all these products add up. I plan to buy a one-piece brass cleaning rod, when I can afford it.

Any opinions?

Graybeard · « **Reply #1 on:** May 21, 2009, 05:10:51 PM »

Yeah my opinion is stop trying to be cheap and get the right equipment to do the job.

Pull the lever and bolt and you have direct access to bore from chamber end but even so some sort of bore guide is still advised. Midway USA sells them for most every kinda rifle there is and I have an assortment of them.

Get a one piece stainless steel rod either coated or uncoated but get a ONE PIECE STAINLESS rod with a good ball bearing handle. The ones I use come from Midsouth Shooter's Supply a GBO Sponsor they are made by Bore Tech and are on page 135 of the current catalog. I also have several Dewey coated rods but now use the Bore Tech almost exclusively.

If you want an aggressive copper solvent I recommend and use Barnes CR-10. It's about the most agressive I've worked with. No ammonia based solvent should be left in the barrel for an extended time and use of household strength ammonia might hasten barrel damage. Most such solvents state on them to get them out within 30 minutes or so.

I also use JB Bore Paste in conjuction with CR-10 and usually get the copper out quickly no matter how badly fouled the barrel is. There are also several foams available now that will do a good job but man are they messy and get all down into the action. I think they are supposed to be safe enough but I still don't like a lot of extra junk getting into the actions. I think I'm giving up on them.

Win 1917 · « **Reply #2 on:** May 22, 2009, 02:36:27 AM »

If you take out the lever screw that the lever pivots on, the lever and bolt just slide right out and you can clean from the breach. The other piece that comes out is the ejector piece/spring. It's not hard to figure out where it goes but it can be disheartening when a part falls out and you didn't see where it came from

. Just open the action and look first to see where it is before you disaassemble it. When assembling, lay the gun on it's side so the ejector stays in place while you reinstall the bolt.

I use a Hoppe's universal bore guide but you can probably find something better for the 336. It isn't a perfect fit in the 336 but it's close enough that it's definitely better than not using anything. FWIW I second Grey's opinion, stay away from the home made cleaning concoctions. A bottle of Hoppes #9 or equivelent has done the trick for years and years and only costs $5. The cost of replacing a ruined barrel could pay for 5 lifetime's worth of solvent for the average shooter. For rods, I've been happy with Tipton.

Here's an interesting article with different opinions on cleaning: http://www.6mmbr.com/borebrushing.html

Winter Hawk · « **Reply #3 on:** May 22, 2009, 07:51:45 AM »

I agree with Graybeard and Win 1917. Use a hard steel cleaning rod. The softer aluminum & brass rods can get dirt and metal particles imbedded into them, making them abrasive enough to wear the bore. I generally run a bore snake through three or more times with some Breakfree dripped on the tail end.

-WH-

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #4 on:** May 22, 2009, 08:59:12 AM »

While I do not have a 36 I do own a 95 and I use the pull through bore snakes for day to day and once a year or so I tear down the rifle,
Remove the bolt and clean each and every piece and clean the rifle from the breach with a steel rod and brass brush. like I do for my bolt action guns. With the bolt out I can get any crud out of the action like powder, leaves, and dust. You would be suprised how much gunk gets in there.
You can also go to Midway on oder one of thier super duper Tipton rods that ...... ~~After all he is a GBO Sponsor.~~ You're welcome Bill.

Graybeard · « **Reply #5 on:** May 22, 2009, 11:52:17 AM »

WRONG!

Midway USA is NOT a GBO sponsor. They refused to even discuss the subject with me saying they DO NOT advertise on the internet.

Our Sponsor is Midsouth Shooter's Supply. www.midsouthshooterssupply.com they don't sell Tipton I don't think but do carry Dewey, Bore Tech and one other brand.

I stopped using Tipton after the third one broke on me. I do not recommend Tipton rods and wouldn't use one in my rifle bore if someone paid me to do so.

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #6 on:** May 22, 2009, 01:25:24 PM »

Sorry. My Bad. I knew it had a mid in the name.

bilmac · « **Reply #7 on:** May 22, 2009, 06:56:33 PM »

I wouldn't worry too much about copper fouling, You are shooting a lever gun, they shoot groups between 1 1/2" and 3". The boys who are fussing with copper fouling are bolt gun target shooters who want to shrink their group from 1/2" to 1/4". Your Marlin will never know the difference whether the bore has copper or is shiny clean.

Graybeard · « **Reply #8 on:** May 23, 2009, 01:36:33 AM »

I don't fully agree with that but do agree it's a bit less of a concern when you're looking for lesser accuracy. The higher the level of accuracy desired the more attention you need to pay to the barrel.

BBF · « **Reply #9 on:** May 23, 2009, 03:28:59 AM »

IMO those bore snakes are pretty much useless. You are dragging a dirty piece of material through a rifle and at best scratch some foulings with those embedded brass pieces in the snake. There are pull through gadgets available that use your standard patch holders. A bit slower to use but they do the job. I use them regularly on firearms that can't be cleaned from the breech.

Barnes CR-10 is great stuff. !

Siskiyou · « **Reply #10 on:** May 23, 2009, 04:23:41 AM »

The amount of cleaning a M94 or a M336 require is directly related to the frequency of using, and the amount of ammunition fire in the rifle. I have a hunting partner that has two Marlins and I am not aware of he firing ether in the last 30-years. A second hunting partner has a Model 94 and he has not mentioned firing it in close to forty years. These rifles get a semi-annual cleaning and oiling. They then go to the back of the respective safe.

Both of these guys have a pet 30-06 they take hunting. It is not a lack of ammunition, it is preference.

My M336 is not my go to rifle, but I like it lot. When I take it out I normally will fire 30-40 rounds at a setting. During my working years I would use it, and clean it, and then store it. One winter day I picked up the hint of cooper residue in the bore of another rifle. While I was soaking that bore I pulled out the 30-30 for inspection. It had a light cooper build-up. I now insure that the copper is cleaned from the bore.

I had noticed a slight drop off of accuracy from the rifle when it had the slight copper build-up.

I pulled the lever and bolt and clean the rifle from the back, with an exception. At the range after twenty rounds, I will run a wet patch and brush into the bore a few passes. Before leaving the range I will run a wet patch with a cooper remover in the muzzle. This allows the cooper remover sometime to soak in. I only dissemble the rifle at home. I do not want to lose any parts.

At home I use a one piece cleaning rod, at the range or on hunting trips I carry a break down rod. I had a very nice bore snake kit given to me for Christmas years back. Some years it goes in the gun cleaning box I take on an extended hunting trip. I have never used it.

I believe a clean bore extends the life of a rifle, and contributes to accuracy. I have heard people knock the accuracy of lever guns; I feel the knock is a generalization.

The topic calls for a repeat of a range picture. This is the first four rounds of the morning. Two factory C-L and two handloaded Hornady RN.

Excuse me I need to go hug my Marlin!

kernman · « **Reply #11 on:** May 23, 2009, 01:33:38 PM »

Thank you all for your replies.

Until now I have cleaned it by taking out the bolt, and running a Hoppe's #9 soaked bore snake from the breech end. (I always clean the bore snake after with warm water and dish detergent).

But it seems accuracy is falling off. Since I bought it, I have put about 250 rounds through it.

It was shooting 1 1/2 groups at 100 yards, but last time out, the last group I shot was 3 inches. Maybe I need to shoot some more groups to make sure I wasn't just having an off day. (I don't shoot a lot due to ammo costs).

Win1917, what kind of accuracy are you getting from using Hoppe's # 9? I have heard it doesn't really get out copper fouling. Someone else said to soak the barrel for awhile in Hoppe's to break up the copper residue.

I had planned to trying that first. Maybe soak it overnight, then drain it, then run a bore snake through.

As I understand it, you only need a bore guide if you clean from the muzzle, to protect the crown. By why use a bore guide if you are cleaning from the breach?

Siskiyou · « **Reply #12 on:** May 23, 2009, 02:21:25 PM »

The last couple of years I have been using Remington 40-x Bore cleaner. I rap a patch around a brush to clean the bore. The Remington Bore cleaner seems to be very effective. I was raised on #9 and it was my choice until I picked up a couple quarts of GI bore cleaner. The GI bore cleaner was cheap!

The G.I. bore cleaner is nasty stuff, and leaving my clothing in the laundry room was a requirement plus a shower.

I always flush my bronze brush with WD-40 to neutralize the cooper cleaner.

I cannot detect copper fouling looking directly into a bore. I can remove the bolt and look at a light and the bore looks nice and shinny. The true test down in the garage is to rest the butt on the floor with the muzzle up. I then take my shop light and hold it at a high angle to the muzzle. The cooper fouling shows up if present.

Graybeard · « **Reply #13 on:** May 23, 2009, 05:11:42 PM »

If you've put 250 rounds down the barrel since copper was removed it is in bad need most likely. Reason for the bore guide is in case the patch catches the rod can bend and contact the barrel. If it has crud on it you could scratch the barrel. Just a safety precaution to prevent barrel damage.

Hoppe's #9 is an excellent carbon remover but it's not very effective on copper.

bilmac · « **Reply #14 on:** May 24, 2009, 01:27:13 AM »

Hoppies does make a copper removing product, but it is slow.

brianscott12 · « **Reply #15 on:** May 24, 2009, 05:17:27 AM »

If you allready have an aluminum rod, you can use electrical heat shrink to cover it in. Works great and any automotive parts store will have it.

Keith L · « **Reply #16 on:** May 24, 2009, 06:01:09 AM »

Quote from: brianscott12 on May 24, 2009, 05:17:27 AM

If you allready have an aluminum rod, you can use electrical heat shrink to cover it in. Works great and any automotive parts store will have it.

And grit will stick to that more than the aluminum. Spend a couple bucks on a stainless cleaning rod and a bore guide. It is worth it in the long run.

brianscott12 · « **Reply #17 on:** May 24, 2009, 06:43:37 AM »

Never thought about it that way Kieth, I was allways concerned with the aluminum shavings. Thanks

Harry Snippe · « **Reply #18 on:** May 24, 2009, 09:29:28 AM »

When I bought my 336 /35rem used I took out the bolt and used a steel cleaning rod with brush and Hoppes #9 followed by a few wet and dry patches 'till they come out clean .
Then during the off season I shoot lead through the bore , to practice , save a buck or two , plus this saves the bore . Then the lead seems to polish the bore also.

Then having to just clean the lead , I noticed the barrel takes a shine and less time is needed to clean the bore . In the fall starting out with a lead free bore , change over to my jacketed hunting round .
I notice now too. it only takes a pass or two to get the copper Etc. Out since the bore is polshed .

So shoot lead in the off season.

BBF · « **Reply #19 on:** May 25, 2009, 05:22:00 AM »

I'm not sure lead will polish the bore but do know that jacketed bullets will push out the lead

.

Harry Snippe · « **Reply #20 on:** May 25, 2009, 04:37:56 PM »

Quote from: BBF on May 25, 2009, 05:22:00 AM

I'm not sure lead will polish the bore but do know that jacketed bullets will push out the lead .

You jest . If you don't clean properly going from lead to Jacketed then to lead you will end up with layers of both .

kernman · « **Reply #21 on:** May 31, 2009, 01:21:59 PM »

Will shooting lead bullets push out the copper? Or maybe just leave another layer of lead to hide the copper underneath?

Hooker · « **Reply #22 on:** May 31, 2009, 05:02:10 PM »

Firing jacketed bullets to remove leading does help some but it will not clean the bore.
Copper fouling is much harder than lead so firing lead bullets has no effect other than adding lead fouling to the bore.

Pat