Forsythe barrels?

[LC Smith]

Is there anyone here who has worked with barrels rifled with the Forsythe principle?  Narrow lands, wide grooves and very slow twist?

[longcaribiner]

not by name.   years ago, i had a special target barrel made by H&H barrels in Elkridge, MD.  hoppy made a special cutter that cut wide roundconered grooes.  The grooves were four times wider than the lands, and it had a choked bore at the muzzle.  That barrel is a real tack driver and will cut a 5 shot cloer leaf at 100 yds.   Harry Pope used a rfling system for muzzleloaded bullets with grooves that were 7 times wider than the lands.  He also used rifling that seemed raised in the middle, like the Alexander Henry rifling used in Engand.   

[coyotejoe]

About any type of rifling you can imagine has been tried at some time and despite all claims by the "inventor" the exact form seems to make very little difference, the common form of lands and grooves approximately equal works as well as any. Harry Pope's barrels set records because he was a perfectionist and wouldn't sell a barrel if he knew he could make a better one.  With modern barrel making methods they can make any style of rifling as easily as any other and if one type were clearly superior that would be the only type made. Just as in Harry Pope's day there are some barrel makers who take extra pains to get it right every time and then there are all the others who sometimes produce an exceptionally accurate barrel mixed in with a lot of mediocre barrels.

[Nobade]

My Pedersoli 12 bore double rifle has rifling basically like that. At first I didn't like the looks of it, being used to more normal barrels. But it shoots incredibly well, and can load and fire as long as my shoulder holds up with no change in effort. The twist isn't especially slow, 1:86 or so in a 12 bore is pretty fast, but it sure works with either soft or hardened balls and charges between 5 and 7 drams.

[necchi]

About any type of rifling you can imagine has been tried at some time and despite all claims by the "inventor" the exact form seems to make very little difference,,,,,,,  With modern barrel making methods they can make any style of rifling as easily as any other and if one type were clearly superior that would be the only type made.

 Well said joe!! It does stand to reason that if there was a better style or type of cut. someone would be using it and others would strive to be near the same or copy it for the sake of marketing alone.
 Colerain offers a deeper "round bottom" 6 land/groove cut, but are predominatly a swamped barrel maker.
 Green Mountain has square cut with 8 lands and grooves, Then there is Rice and several other makers that offer a better barrel, but as joe said, and I believe, they are better because their quality control standards are much higher,,,

[longcaribiner]

Different rifling for different purposes.  Round ball does better with one type and bullets and conicals do better with others.  There is a lot more to it than just width of the grooves.  There's depth, and shape etc.  Pure lead bullets do better with some types of rifling while other types of rifling are better for the modern copper jacketed bullets.    There is no real one size fits all.  Modern barrel makers have to balance cost of manufacture and tooling vs quality control, waste etc.  I've been to Blue Maountain muzzleloaders in Shartlesville PA and saw those big muzzleloader 60 lb bench guns fired.  62 caliber cloverleafs at 300 yds.    Those guns need quite a bit more barrel and specialized rifling than something broached on a mass production line.   

Yes perfection plays a part.   But so does the type of load and projectile.    There are some folks who can shoot nearly anything well, even smooth bores.  And tack driving is all relative.    But perfection in shooting is a whole class above that.    I don't car how well a person can shoot, it isn't likley he'll be winning any national matches with a production line mass produced barrel he got on a gun from wally world.   Rifling is not a one size fits all, or we could slap a breech plug on an Mossberg 30-06 barrel and muzzleload it for 150 yd prairie dogs. 

Too many of the past top shooters, who were also gun smiths relied on wider grooves than lands.  George Shalk, Harry Pope and Emil Pachmayer were the best.