"Small" howitzers at Fort George

[broadarrow]

Hi Folks, I am wondering if any members here have any detail photos of two small howitzers that appear to be in a collection at Fort George (U.S.A. ?) they appeared to be quite small being described as 1ft. 9in. overall length which was on a red carriage the other was 4ft. 6in. long and on a grey carriage I am after information on these as I have a reproduction bronze barrel of a similar sort of size (I think) and pattern and would like to know more about them if possible, what their use was as I thought most howitzers were of a larger size with 5in. bore and up whereas these appear to have a barrel diameter a lot smaller than that at 2.5 - 3in. I have a pair of pictures that I copied from another site so I don't want to repost them here unless I have to, so has anyone seen or used a similar sized howitzer at that site or elsewhere? Regards, Peter B.

[Cat Whisperer]

Could you clarify which one?  (or better yet which cannons)

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:
...
Fort George, New York was the name of five forts in the state of New York.

The first Fort George was built in 1626 in New Amsterdam and named Fort Amsterdam. The British Army occupied it as Fort James from 1664 to 1687. Briefly re-occupied by the Dutch from 1673-1674 as Fort Willem Hendrick, it was renamed Fort George in 1687. The fort was destroyed in 1776 by the Americans and finally demolished in 1790. The site is now an office building in Lower Manhattan.

A second Fort George was built by the British in 1755 at Oswego, New York, but it was destroyed by the French commander Louis-Joseph de Montcalm in 1756.

A third Fort George was built in Lake George, New York in 1755. Destroyed in 1777 and finally abandoned in 1780.

A fourth Fort George was built on Staten Island.

[KABAR2]

Could you narrow it down for us? which fort George are you talking about?

A location would help.

From Wikipedia

United States

    * Fort George (Colorado) - a frontier trading post also known as Fort Saint Vrain
    * Fort George (Pensacola, Florida) - a former American Revolutionary War fort in Pensacola, Florida
    * Fort George (Castine, Maine), listed on the NRHP in Maine, a British fort during the American Revolution, site of the Penobscot Expedition
    * Fort George, Mackinac Island, Michigan, the former name of the Fort Holmes
    * Fort George, Manhattan - a neighborhood in the extreme northern part of Washington Heights, Manhattan, New York City
    * Fort Amsterdam - a British fort in New York City during the American Revolution, also known as Fort George
    * Fort George, New York - Five different forts in various parts of New York State built at various times
    * Fort George, Oregon - the new name for Fort Astoria after the North West Company purchased it from the Pacific Fur Company in 1813
 

I see CW & I think alike & look in the same places.................

[cannonmn]

http://www.lassengunsmithing.com/html/KHp1.htm

[KABAR2]

Cannonmn,

Great article, thanks for posting it.

[broadarrow]

Hi Fellas, here is a photo of my unfinished barrel and the pictures of the two howitzer carriages in question unfortunately the description I have only gives the overall length of both pieces of interest to me and all that it gives in the way of a location is the words Fort George no other clues were given, if I had more than that it would be a lot easier to seek help maybe someone will recognise them now I have posted the pics, thanks for your help so far, Regards, Peter B.

   

   

   

[KABAR2]

Broadarrow,

Your reproduction tube looks like it follows the English pattern rather than the king howitzer

looks like it will be a nice piece when finished. are you sure the museum is in the US?

Could it be in Canada? they have a few fort George's also.

[broadarrow]

Hi Kabar2, yes the "tube" is very much like a Muller British pattern which is where I think the gunfounder patterned it from and not at all like the King (?) pattern tubes that are mounted on the carriages in question. When I looked at the photos I had posted above there were a lot of similarities in the hardware to British howitzer carriages so I was hoping when the detectives here establish exactly what I have pictures of that it will reveal its nation of origin and if they aren't British I will build a more appropriate carriage to the tube I have, but I was also just curious about them because of their overall length especially the red one. As to the location I just took a stab in the dark as to it being in the U.S.A. somewhere I hope I have not wasted too many peoples time with that one, Oops! Thanks, Regards, Peter B.

[cannonmn]

Tube on red carriage looks exactly like 1st mdl King how.  Broad. must have missed the link I posted above, tells all about both models of the King.

[broadarrow]

Hi Cannonmn, thanks for posting that link it is a most interesting article, I was fiddling around replying when you posted that and saw it when I went for a look later, d'oh! I was wondering if in your library do you have any side or other profile shots of these pieces mounted as although it doesn't suit my tube as it is more British pattern it is always handy to see the application other makers have used in service, Regards, Peter B.

[cannonmn]

I was wondering if in your library do you have any side or other profile shots of these pieces mounted as although it doesn't suit my tube as it is more British pattern it is always handy to see the application other makers have used in service, Regards, Peter B.

Sorry I don'r have anything with original carriages, that's what you'd want to see to be accurte.

[GGaskill]

I was wondering if in your library do you have any side or other profile shots of these pieces mounted as although it doesn't suit my tube as it is more British pattern it is always handy to see the application other makers have used in service

There does not appear to be any documented evidence of what the carriages of King howitzers looked like.  If you followed the article to the second section, you will note that "...the wheels about as large as those of a wheelbarrow."  Now Van Renssalaer was talking about a wheelbarrow of 1812, not a Chinese one of 2009 with inflatable rubber tire, so this is another clue but it must be evaluated in the context of the time the statement was made.

[Cannoneer]

Broadarrow,

 Who made your Howitzer, and what are the specs on it? Does it already conform to the .75 caliber maximum bore law that you're limited by?

[broadarrow]

Hi BoomJ, yes, on a collectors permit, which has its own set of rules, Regards, Peter B.