Author Topic: Help on buying GPS  (Read 1169 times)

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Offline Bearcat 74

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Help on buying GPS
« on: May 25, 2009, 04:28:52 AM »
Guys I am totally new to the GPS thing.  I am wanting to get one for hunting season and ginseng season because I am going to new ground constantly.  A friend has a Garmin something, it is terrible under a canopy or cloud cover.  Another friend has a 60csx that is pretty awesome and it does a lot of stuff.  What is a good unit that would be good under cover, canopy or clouds, would have an altimeter and store points?  I don't want to get something so complicated I can't use it.  LOL   My friend with the 60csx said that it is the only way to fly especially when you compare features to price??   I won't be using this everyday but would have it pretty regular from June looking for yellow root, etc and weekends in deer and  through turkey season in May.


Sorry if these are sensless questions, but I have only ever looked at one a few times so I am lost.


Thanks!

Offline Joe_Kidd

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Re: Help on buying GPS
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2009, 08:25:47 AM »
Antenae tech has improved over the years hand helds have been around, this helps a lot, but if sky is obstructed by solid objects, signal can't be received cleanly. Tree cover variably degrades signal, no way around that. Maybe your friend has on older unit? Just bought a dozen Garman Map76 units for work, ~$150 impressed with performance. Much improved over some of the older units I've used.

Offline Siskiyou

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Re: Help on buying GPS
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2009, 09:27:46 AM »

The older units “without” the high sensitivity receiver are behind the curve.  You have the answer, and it is the 60Cx, 60CSx or the 76Cx or 76CSx.  They share the same operating system and have the high sensitivity chipset...  The primary difference is the 76 models float.

If you have a friend that already has the 60CSx it is to your benefit to get a like one.  Most likely he can help shorten your learning curve.   

https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=145&pID=310

Walmart.com had a good price, but show out of stock.  You might want to follow-up.  The next lowest was at 
http://www.gpsnow.com/gmmap60csx.htm

The standard 76, 8MB of memory is an older black and white unit that is advertised as a marine unit.  The older chipset is great out in a boat with clear sky.  It along with many other older units is showing improved reception because of the additional satellites put into orbit.  The newest satellites also broadcast a stronger signal.

https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=145&pID=169

I had a 76C, 115MB of memory which is a step up from the 76.   I gave it to my brother after I purchased the 76Cx which takes a large chip.  Currently my unit has a 2GB micro SD card in it with close to 2020 maps on it.  The 76C is a better receiving gps today than when I bought it.

If you want to save money purchase the 60Cx or 76Cx.  They do not have the electronic compass, or the altimeter.  The standard gps altimeter and compass do the job 99 44/100 percent of the time.  I have found that most users do not calibrate them.  Every time the batteries are changed they need to be calibrated.  When working with an altimeter it needs to be check daily.  You can check the nearest airport Weather station for the pressure.
There is a learning process to effectively using a gps.  Do not throw your compass and map away!

Boycott: San Francisco, L.A., Oakland, and City of Sacramento, CA.

Offline Bearcat 74

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Re: Help on buying GPS
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2009, 10:15:04 AM »
I was under the impression the 60Cx did not have a compass or show elevation period, was I incorrect?  I need one to show elevation when I'm out digging.  You said, "The standard gps altimeter and compass do the job 99 44/100 percent of the time."  What is the difference between the standard gps compass and one on the 60csx?  I would prefer to not have to calibrate something everyday when I'm out and about.  What is the advantage of the 60csx over the 60cx?  Again I am a total newb to this stuff.  Say I have a hunting location arked I want to get to, does the 60Cx have the features to store the track to and from and the point that I can get back to?



Joe_Kidd, he bought his Garmin last year, I think it was an Etrex something, it was blue and black.  It does not have the antennae sticking up.


Thanks again!!

Offline Siskiyou

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Re: Help on buying GPS
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2009, 12:11:13 PM »
The 60Cx uses the data from the Satellites you are receiving to display your direction on a compass page.  If you are standing still and rotating your body slowly under cover the 60Cx compass is not as sensitive.  The electronic compass of the 60CSx is more sensitive.  Elevation on the 60Cx is base on satellites data.

60Cx Manual
http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP60Cx_OwnersManual.pdf

The 60Cx and 60CSx share the same ability to create, and store locations (waypoints).  For example when I park my vehicle I create a waypoint PK1 at that location, and even use the park or vehicle symbol.  The 60Cx or CSx and be put into the TRACK mode and you can create a track from your vehicle and back.  Let’s say you have hunted two miles out from your vehicle, and you do not want to return by that route.  When you get to your return point Go to the find button, select the Waypoint icon, select the PK1 waypoint, select Go To.  On you Map page you will get a line from your location to Pk1.  Just walk the line and the pointer was represents you will move in that direction.  Start walking in the wrong direction and the pointer will move in the wrong direction.

60CSx Manual

http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP60CSx_OwnersManual.pdf

On the Compass Page the Pointer will point in the direction you want to travel.  When you make your turns the electronic compass will be more sensitive to your movements, and it is at an advantage.  The electronic compass also has a sight and go feature what is nice. 

Let’s say you are out in the woods and sight a white snag a mile away.  On the Compass Page you select sight and go.  Holding the unit level with the face up, you select the Lock Direction option.  The compass point will continue to point at the point you have selected to go to.  I like the option.

I have used the Satellite compass for years for hunting and have had no problems with.  If money is an issue it is a good tool.

Two years ago I did a lot of pre-season scouting using my Garmin 76Cx (60Cx).  I studied food sources, deer tracks, ground stand locations, and other features.  I created waypoints for ground stand.  I also created a waypoint for the location I needed to turn off the State Highway on to a poorly marked logging road.  I created a waypoint from which I planned to park my vehicle and start hunting.

On opening morning I left home at 2 a.m.  I was glad I had created a waypoint at my turn-off on to the logging road.  The highway department had plowed snow during the night and the turn-off was not visible.  At that point I selected the parking location waypoint and drove to it.  After parking and gearing up I selected the most likely stand location and hunted that direction. 

As I approached the area I heard a lot of crashing sounds.  I check the area the sound was coming from and I could see the vegetation shaking and a large set of horns tearing it.  I watched it for about twenty minutes and could not see a clean shot.  I brought the rifle to my shoulder and the buck spotted the movement and took off running.  My only hope was to run in the direction of the stand (waypoint) I had marked thinking the buck might cross an opening there.  The buck dropped within feet of the waypoint.

Last year I was hunting a different location and shot a buck.  It looked like a good shot but the buck took off running.  I created a waypoint and the location I was setting, and where the buck was standing at the shot.  I had the gps in TRACK MODE.  The buck was quickly located, and I called my hunting partners on the 530CHx and let them know I had a buck down.  We were on public land and this cut out the shouting back and forth for them to hone in on my location.  As soon as I hit the transmitter button my ICON was placed on the screen of their Rino 520C and 530CHx.  All they need to do was Trac to my location.

Wife’s and mother’s like us to have this feature get to be a senior citizen and they treat you like a five year old.

The manual for the 520HCx and 530HCx.

http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/Rino520HCx_OwnersManual.pdf

For the Peer to Peer position feature to work the other user must have a Garmin Rino radio.  It will communicate with many other FRS/GMRS radios.  I take a couple of Midland radios on trips for other people to use.

The next morning I was taxi driver for my hunting partners.  Part of the plan for the day was that after the partners cleared the area I had killed my buck, I was going to hike in and find the fired case.  Before leaving the pickup that morning I created a waypoint, and then selected the waypoint I had created when I shot the buck.  I hiked directly to the waypoint and immediately found the case.  Next I worked my way back to the road and the gut pile which I had marked with a waypoint.  It looked like some critters got to the gut pile.  Not sure if it was a bear, because there were no big scat piles handy.  A lot of bear sign a few hundred yards away.

You can also determine elevation using the units I mentioned in conjunction with Map Source Topo 2008 installed on a Micro SD card.  Go to the map page; select the PAN MAP option and using the rocker button you can move the White Pointer to the different contour lines and the elevation will display.  Not hard to determine how much elevation you need to gain or lose.

Before I leave the house on a hunting trip I create a hunt plan which includes LAT/LONGS from my waypoints, names of landmarks, and the different counties I might be hunting in.  In many counties the sheriff is responsible for S&R.
There is a learning process to effectively using a gps.  Do not throw your compass and map away!

Boycott: San Francisco, L.A., Oakland, and City of Sacramento, CA.

Offline Siskiyou

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Re: Help on buying GPS
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2009, 05:36:30 AM »
This morning I am setting in our computer room with my Garmin 76Cx and Garmin 530HCx gps units fired up.  Besides the house there are oaks blocking the horizon.  To the SE is a ridge that is about 200 feet higher, the story is about the same to the rear of the house.  We are even or above terrain to the West.  Each unit has the high sensitivity chip and both are tracking nine to ten satellites.
The older Garmin Legend and 76C gps units that I owned would only receive two or three satellites at the same location and many times would not lock on a location in the house.  When the Garmin Legend was my go to unit I was hunting a drainage at about 7200-foot elevation.  I was in a nice stand of old growth Shasta Red Fir.  Most of the trees were 150+ feet tall, and a light, wet snow was falling.  The ground cover below the heavy tree cover was relatively open covered by meadow grass, fed by springs.  I like the location because it offered open shooting lanes, and there was a lot of deer sign.  I found the ideal location for a ground blind, and I went to create a waypoint.  It would be a good place to walk in before daylight under flashlight power.  The problem was that I could not obtain enough satellites with my old Legend to get a fix.  After leaving the location it was sometime before I could get a lock.  The Legend did not work all the time under timber canopy.
I returned to the location using my 76Cx a few years later and easily created a waypoint.

A friend of mine is a law enforcement supervisor.  A couple years ago he filled some field officer positions and purchased a gps unit for each officer.  He got a good deal on the Garmin units.  Unfortunately they were older units without the high sensitivity chipset.

 Every field report taken by these officers require a LAT/LONG.  Within a few weeks they were unhappy with the older units without the high sensitivity chip.  It is funny how a second rate gps can undermine a supervisors creditability.  These officers work products are subject to challenge in court.  When the tools they use are not up to the job their credibility is weaken.

 A lot of judges and lawyers have outdoor interest and they can afford good equipment.  It is funny which strange tracks are produced in the court room.

In the world of electronics what is top dog today, will not get honorable mention in a couple of years.
There is a learning process to effectively using a gps.  Do not throw your compass and map away!

Boycott: San Francisco, L.A., Oakland, and City of Sacramento, CA.

Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: Help on buying GPS
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2009, 06:10:26 AM »
I am a Low Tech RED NECK and I have a Garmin Rhino 120.  there are other models that have more features such as Topo maps and such.
I like the Rhino as is has basic roads on the map as well as a built in radio.  The Radio has come in handy on occasion.
The cool thing about the Rhino is if you radio someone else with one you show up on thier screen.  So if you have a deer down and radio out they know where you are.
Mine works OK in the deep woods.  every so often I need to find a clearing for it to reaquire  But that is usually when it has been in the  pocket of my hunting coat and not while I am using it to navigate to a spot.
It uses 3 AA batteries.  I found that the standard batteries will go for a full day and the Lithium batteries will last for three full days.
It also comes with a car charger and a cell phone type clip, that I guess you can clip to your pack or to your coat and keep it out in the open.  I am afraid to have it fall off and loose the little green thing.
As I mentioned I am not the techno wizard.  It is easy to use and easy to add and delete points.  It is also easy to name those points quickly and easily.  There are 4 buttons you use.  One to change screens, one to zoom, one for volume, and a joy stick button that allows you to move around the map.  OH yea there is a power button that will also give you an option to light up the screen.
I tend to buy as best a product as I can but will not be strapped to replace it if lost or damaged.  I like that it is one piece of equipemnt that does two tasks of GPS and Radio.  I still stick a compass in my coat as well.

Offline Bearcat 74

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Re: Help on buying GPS
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2009, 03:59:56 AM »
Thanks for the stories and the replies guys.  After some looking around and talking to my friend that has the 60CSX, I am thinking the 60Cx maybe the way for me to go.  His compass has been iffy at times, I always carry a compass anyways and for what I will be using it for satellite elevation is more than adequate.  He can show me the ropes on his along as reading the manuals posted, thanks for those!

Offline Siskiyou

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Re: Help on buying GPS
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2009, 09:44:08 AM »
The Garmin 60Cx is a solid unit, and you can upgrade the mapping memory with aftermarket micro SD cards.  At this time a 2 GB card is the best deal.  The maximum maps the unit will currently recognize are 2025 maps.  Basically 2025 maps is one third of the Continental USA when loading TOPO 2008.  TOPO 2008 is based on USGS maps which contains a lot of segments.  There is a program that will combine the segments and allow you to load more area on a card without exceeding 2025.  I have not tried it.  You can get by with the basemap. 

If you are loading City Navigator on your micro SD card you can get the Continental USA, Alaska, Hawaii, and Canada on the card.  The map segments are large and the area described is broken into 284 maps.

I have a combination of TOPO 2008 and City Navigator loaded on the card in my Garmin 76Cx.

When I purchased City Navigator it came with a license (unlock code) for two units.  I understand it only comes with a license for one unit now days.  I used the unlock codes on my 76Cx and my 76C which I have given to my brother. 

I have added a Garmin 530HCx to the mix.  I have US TOPO 2008 loaded on a Micro SD card, and the free ware California Topo on it.  I am satisfied with the combination and do not plan on buying a license to install City Navigator on it.   One of the key reasons is the Garmin c550 automotive gps unit that I purchased last year.  It came with City Navigator pre-installed on it.  The unit is easily moved from my pickup to the wife’s Jeep, or another vehicle.  I was pleased to find that City Navigator shows a lot of roads out in the woods.

The Rino 120 is a highly modified Garmin Legend Mapping gps.  The primary modifications include the FRS and GMRS radio with the neat peer-to-peer feature.  The 120 comes with a quad helix GPS antenna.  This should provide an upgrade in reception over the stock PATCH antenna on the Legend.  The FRS transmitter is rated at .5 watts.  The GMRS transmitter is rated at 1.0 watts.  An acquaintance and his friends have the Rino 120 radios and get a lot of use out of them.

My Garmin Rino 530HCx can best described as a modified 60CSx with a .5 watt FRS radio, and a 5 watt GMRS radio.  It also comes with a removable, rechargeable lithium-ion battery pack.  My hunting partners and I have found this to be a reliable battery.  This radio offers a down power option of 2 watts which we have found more than adequate in the woods.  The ability to turn on the NOAA weather radio feature is nice, and it can be setup to activate automatically with weather alerts or Amber alerts.

The Rino radios will communicate with other Rino models, and most other FRS/GMRS, the peer-to-peer function will not work with other brands.

There is a learning process to effectively using a gps.  Do not throw your compass and map away!

Boycott: San Francisco, L.A., Oakland, and City of Sacramento, CA.

Offline Bearcat 74

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Re: Help on buying GPS
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2009, 12:16:33 PM »
I got my 60Cx today, it is pretty snazzy.  I got some maps from online and set a waypoint or two.  I need to get out and prowl around with it some, weather sucked today maybe tomorrow.  I am still trying to get everything down, but it's pretty awesome to be sitting in the house on the couch and have a lock on 5 satellites.  I picked up the 2GB SD card also. 

One thing I have a question on.  It showed that I had traveled .52 miles on the odometer, which I don't think I had.  I turned the unit off and swiyched it back on a little bit later and the odometer said .81 miles.  Why would it go up when I did not move and the unit was off?


Thanks

Offline Siskiyou

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Re: Help on buying GPS
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2009, 01:38:14 PM »

Check the current price for US Topo 2008 at Walmart.com They have had the best price.  It jumped three dollars today.  It was $74 and now showing $77 dollars.

Hopefully that is a 2 GB micro SD card?

My “best guess” is that is the change in the relationship of the gps to the satellites. I started noticing that when I Garmin had a software update for one of my gps units.  If you have walked around inside the house ii will record the movement.

An interesting check is to have the unit in tract mode.  Main Menu>Tracks>
On the Tracks page I have the box a wrap around when full checked.  Record Method I have set at Normal, and I have selected GREEN in the color box.  If want to show another track on the same map I will switch colors.  I just checked the Data card and it shows that I am 95% full. That is because I have 1849.4 MB of Maps loaded on my card.  0.11 MB of Tracks, and 0.42 MB of Miscellaneous data.

The trip computer page is one of my favorite pages that I keep track of time and miles on walks or trips.  To reset it go to the upper small box on the left.  Select Reset.  I select the top four boxes.  When I want to clear a Track, I select the Clear Track Log box.  I then go down and apply.  I am given an option and I select OK.  You can also clear it on the tracks page.  Currently I have two tracks save on my tracks page.  One from the day I took my buck last season, and the other from a late season trip into some new country.  I left the area when the weather radio predicted extreme winds at that elevation.  I want to do some additional scouting in that area. 
There is a learning process to effectively using a gps.  Do not throw your compass and map away!

Boycott: San Francisco, L.A., Oakland, and City of Sacramento, CA.

Offline Siskiyou

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Re: Help on buying GPS
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2009, 10:19:10 AM »
After a little testing I think my "Best Guess" stinks.

I had my 76Cx which shares operating systems with the 60Cx.  My 76Cx starting adding milage setting in the living room window.  I fired up the 530HCx and set it in the window.  It did not register any milage while setting.

I will give Garmin Support a call on this tomarrow or early next week.  This could be a software issue.
There is a learning process to effectively using a gps.  Do not throw your compass and map away!

Boycott: San Francisco, L.A., Oakland, and City of Sacramento, CA.

Offline Bearcat 74

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Re: Help on buying GPS
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2009, 04:01:21 AM »
It is a 2GB SD Micro card in my 60Cx.  Thanks for the trips computer page tips, I haven't even been there yet.  :)  This thing does a lot.

I came back from the woods yesterday and was sitting in the living room and I added .3 miles on the couch.  If I get a chance I may call Garmin also.  If you find anything out please post here and I will do the same.


Thanks!

Offline Siskiyou

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Re: Help on buying GPS
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2009, 09:41:27 AM »
I called Garmin this morning and found out my Best Guess is correct.  The Garmin Support person says the High Sensitivity receiver is responsible because it pickups movement between the Satellites and the unit.  Support says the unit equalizes when the user starts walking. 

I asked about the Garmin 60Cx and the 76Cx, the answer is the same.

After the call I took a walk out to the mail box and back and additional mileage recorded on the unit.

In the past on long walks or hunts I have zeroed the unit to get the most accurate numbers.  Support told me I need not do that, but most likely I will. 

I failed to ask the why question, why does the Trip Odem on my 76Cx continue to accumulate mileage while stationary, by my High Sensitivity 530HCx does not?
There is a learning process to effectively using a gps.  Do not throw your compass and map away!

Boycott: San Francisco, L.A., Oakland, and City of Sacramento, CA.